A couple airbrush and compressor questions

I don't know how fine a line you need, but the 150 with a fine needle, tip and spray regulator should go pretty fine.  It does take thinner paint and practice though.  To see what the airbrush is capable of, try shooting ink on paper towels.  That takes thinning out of the equation.  Lower pressure would help.  If you're using the 1/4 oz. cup, the 150 should spray OK with about 15psi.

If you think you have a leak, check with soapy water.  A tiny leak isn't going to matter much.  I wonder why you disconnect the hose from the compressor each time.  It seems like wasted effort to me.

I'm surprised you haven't heard from Badger.  They are normally very good about giving support.  Did you e-mail to customerservice@badgerairbrush.com  ?

Don

cbaginski

Hello!

I'm pretty new at airbrushing, so I apologize if these questions seem kind of obvious.

I have an ancient Badger 150, and recently bought a Badger 180-12 Cyclone compressor. I use the airbrush to paint miniatures, but with my current set-up I cant seem to get fine lines - even with the Badger Fine needle.

I did some research and, from what I have read, to be able to get the fine lines, I need a regulator for my compressor to lower the PSI.

However, the Badger 150 is a siphon feed... would lowering the air pressure cause me any problems with my airbrush? Also, if I decide to switch from a Badger airbrush to a Paasche or Iwata in the future, would I still be able to use my existing compressor and regulator (I see that Iwata makes a Badger to Iwata hose adaptor - but I would just like a confirmation from someone who knows airbrushes, but doesnt work for either Iwata or Badger :) )?

Now, it occurs to me that I might be beating a dead horse by sticking with the 150 - should I look at replacing it with an Iwata gravity feed?

While it is entirely possible to draw fine lines with the Badger 150 if you are skillful and have a lot of practices under your belt, for the average modeler like myself, the airbrush makes a big difference. See the thread on "Choosing an Airbrush" here last month. Wingman_kz talked about why he switched camps from Badger to Iwata. I provided some information on the hardware design some popular airbrushes in the same thread.

cbaginski

Now, regarding my compressor - it shuts off when the bladder fills, but then a few moments later with run for a second, and then shut-off again... and it does this continually. I assume that my connector isnt tight enough and I am leaking air. Should teflon tape and a wrench solve this? I dont leave everything set-up when not in use - I disconnect the hose from the compressor and put both away every time I am done with them - will I have to put a fresh strip of teflon tape on each time? (as an aside, the 'manual' that came with the compressor is woefully inadequate...)

and lastly... one of the rubber suction feet has come off the compressor. I wrote Badger about this over a month ago, but they dont seem interested in helping me out and have yet to hear back from them... can anyone recommend what adhesive to use to reattach it? A 2-part epoxy?

Thanks so much!
Chris

Yes, it is definitely some minor leakage. If it leaks badly, your compressor motor will run continuously. Yes fresh telfon tape should be used whenever you screw on the hose.

If you like to disconnect the hose from compressor everytime, you should use a 1/4" quick disconnect setup between the compressor and airhose. If you have a Harbor Freight or other hardware store nearby, you can go shop for exactly what you need. See the HF examples. You compressor out and the matching hose end should be 1/4" NPT threaded. If so, this $3 set from Harbor Freight is all you need.

Just cruious. What do you use for regulator and moisture removal?

Thank you both for your answers, I apologize for the tardiness of my response - I've been completely incapacitated with a flu bug for the last week. Ugh.

Don: I disconnect the hose from the compressor every time to save space, and not risk any damage to the hose as I put it into my cupboard. And regarding Badger's response, yes, that is the email I sent my request to. I might try them again before writing them off. :)

keilau: Thank you for that link, I'm leaning towards switching to an Iwata in the future. Just to confirm, if I purchase the Badger Regulator/Trap/Filter to use with my 180-12 Cyclone compressor, I will still be able to use this with an airbrush from another vendor? I just dont want to be in a situation where I am wasting money.

A Quick Disconnect sounds like it might be the right option for me - wont it have the same issues of needing fresh Teflon tape each time I disconnect/reconnect though?

Also, I am currently *not* using any sort of regulator/trap/filter - I'm planning on picking up http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390254719259&ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:US:1123#ht_500wt_896 but I wanted to make sure it would be alright with my siphon feed Badger 150 before I do so. It looks like it will work fine, and I should probably get one anyway, so I will be going ahead and purchasing it. :)

Thanks again!
Chris 

I am rather surprised to hear of your problems with Badger.  I just bought a new Anthem 155, and I had a ton of questions I had to bombard them with before during and after my hunt for it.  My primary issue was, since this was my first compressor and airbrush, I needed to know what I needed to hook everything up efficiently.  Their support people always replied to my emails within 24 hours, and mostly within 8 hours.  They were really helpful teaching me a bit and recommending a setup for the Anthem which works great, and I don't even own one of their compressors.  I have a generic Wal Mart 100PSI "Tool Shop" brand compressor with a 2 gallon tank.  I replaced the regulator with one that also had a gauge and moisture trap, and they helped me do that as well.  I spent a considerable amount of time researching the specs and recommendations before I decided on my Anthem.  One of the main factors was the great warranty and excellent customer service they seemed to be known for.  Not to mention an excellent produuct that suited my needs perfectly.  Try giving them a call and explain the problem. I am sure they will help since it is one of their products.

Rich

cbaginski

Thank you both for your answers, I apologize for the tardiness of my response - I've been completely incapacitated with a flu bug for the last week. Ugh.

Don: I disconnect the hose from the compressor every time to save space, and not risk any damage to the hose as I put it into my cupboard. And regarding Badger's response, yes, that is the email I sent my request to. I might try them again before writing them off. :)

keilau: Thank you for that link, I'm leaning towards switching to an Iwata in the future. Just to confirm, if I purchase the Badger Regulator/Trap/Filter to use with my 180-12 Cyclone compressor, I will still be able to use this with an airbrush from another vendor? I just dont want to be in a situation where I am wasting money.

A Quick Disconnect sounds like it might be the right option for me - wont it have the same issues of needing fresh Teflon tape each time I disconnect/reconnect though?

Also, I am currently *not* using any sort of regulator/trap/filter - I'm planning on picking up http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390254719259&ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:US:1123#ht_500wt_896 but I wanted to make sure it would be alright with my siphon feed Badger 150 before I do so. It looks like it will work fine, and I should probably get one anyway, so I will be going ahead and purchasing it. :)

Thanks again!
Chris 

 

 

 

 

 

cbaginski

keilau: Thank you for that link, I'm leaning towards switching to an Iwata in the future.

Why? There is nothing an Iwata can do that the Badger can't do just as well and for less money and with better customer service. Also it is a 100% American made airbrush if that means anything to you. It sure does to me.

cbaginski

keilau: Thank you for that link, I'm leaning towards switching to an Iwata in the future. Just to confirm, if I purchase the Badger Regulator/Trap/Filter to use with my 180-12 Cyclone compressor, I will still be able to use this with an airbrush from another vendor? I just dont want to be in a situation where I am wasting money.

A Quick Disconnect sounds like it might be the right option for me - wont it have the same issues of needing fresh Teflon tape each time I disconnect/reconnect though?

Also, I am currently *not* using any sort of regulator/trap/filter - I'm planning on picking up http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390254719259&ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:US:1123#ht_500wt_896 but I wanted to make sure it would be alright with my siphon feed Badger 150 before I do so. It looks like it will work fine, and I should probably get one anyway, so I will be going ahead and purchasing it. :)

Thanks again!
Chris  

The Badger 180-12 compressor may be a little too low powered to use a regulator/filter, and that's may be why it did not come with one the first place. If you still want to get one, also check out this one. It is much cheaper and very high quality too. Let us know what is the highest steady pressure you can set with the regulator with the 180-12.

You connect the 1/4" female disconnect (first item from left below) to your compressor using telfon tape and connect the 1/4" male disconnect (first item from right below) to the compressor end of your airhose also using telfon tape. You do not unscrew the disconnects once they are in place. You plug the disconnect together without using tape and unplug them when done. (That's why they were named "quick", right?)

When you switch to other brand of airbrush from Badger, you will need a new airhose or an adaptor. But the regulator/filter should work just fine as long as it has 1/4" NPT thread at input and output end. (Some regulator may need a 1/8" to 1/4" adaptor at output.) Some master modeler swear that the airbrushes make no difference to what they can do. (I believe them when I look at what Brent Green does with his Aztek.) To a not too skillful airbrush user like me, I found the Iwata HP-CS balance better in my hand and the trigger action much easier to control. It allows easier build up of skills. But you may have to adjust your airbrush habit to the more gentle, misty type spray from Iwata. I like the results from its finer atomization better too. When I lay the needles from the HP-CS along side the Badger Patriot fine needle, the difference in quality is striking, both in shape and in surface finish.

keilau

 

When I lay the needles from the HP-CS along side the Badger Patriot fine needle, the difference in quality is striking, both in shape and in surface finish.

That sounds a little disingenuous to me.  The Iwata is $120 and the Patriot is  $73.

If you want to compare price-wise then step up to the Badger Renegade for just over $90 and paints circles around the HP-CS.

I've been practicing with my new Anthem from Badger and it's great.  I can get lines about as thin as pen lines.  It's a matter of skill and practice as much as hardware.  You need thin paint, about 20psi and a nice clean brush.  I checked out the Iwatas before deciding on the badger and for me the Anthem 155 was the best all around brush out there for my needs.  I got it for $63 at Coast Airbrush on sale.  Right now it's back up to their regular price of $72.  Keep something in mind.  The needle type does NOT refer to the thickness of the lines.  It's referring to the thickness of the media you are trying to spray.  The medium point needle and tip is perfect for most paints.  For thicker stuff, you want the larger needle, and for finer liquids like thin ink, the fine needle.  I found that out the second day I was on my Badger hunt. lol

I actually checked the Iwata brushes out first but there was just something I didn't like about them...  The Badgers seemed slightly superior in design and were less money.  Plus, they are a US company and I am big on buying US products over foreign imports whenever possible.

Rich

Marine Sniper

 

keilau:

 

 

When I lay the needles from the HP-CS along side the Badger Patriot fine needle, the difference in quality is striking, both in shape and in surface finish.

 

 

That sounds a little disingenuous to me.  The Iwata is $120 and the Patriot is  $73.

If you want to compare price-wise then step up to the Badger Renegade for just over $90 and paints circles around the HP-CS.

 

Marine Sniper

keilau:

When I lay the needles from the HP-CS along side the Badger Patriot fine needle, the difference in quality is striking, both in shape and in surface finish.

That sounds a little disingenuous to me.  The Iwata is $120 and the Patriot is  $73.

We can agree that they are not in the same class. I am talking about quality and you about price. The biggest difference is the feel of the trigger when I airbrush.

Marine Sniper

If you want to compare price-wise then step up to the Badger Renegade for just over $90 and paints circles around the HP-CS.

Not sure what you mean by that. I do not have the Renegade. The CS standard needle has the same linear flow angle as the Velocity. So I expect them to perform similarly. The Renegade Rage needle has a larger linear flow angle than the CS and a secondary taper at the end (according to Don Wheeler's reveiw). I would expect the Rage to be closer to the other Badgers in the "PRO Production Series".

I know the difference between the HP-CS and the Patriot because I have both. I hope someone else has both a Renegade and the HP-CS can describe the difference too. 

Badger just released a Renegade Krome (RK-1) of the Velocity. It seems to me that they are catching up in finish quality. A nickel and chrome dual plating serves important engineering purpose. It is NOT for look only.

keilau

 

 

Not sure what you mean by that. I do not have the Renegade. The CS standard needle has the same linear flow angle as the Velocity. So I expect them to perform similarly. The Renegade Rage needle has a larger linear flow angle than the CS and a secondary taper at the end (according to Don Wheeler's reveiw). I would expect the Rage to be closer to the other Badgers in the "PRO Production Series".

I know the difference between the HP-CS and the Patriot because I have both. I hope someone else has both a Renegade and the HP-CS can describe the difference too. 

 

The Renegade is in the class of the Micron not the Eclipse.

I had an HP-CS at one time as well and it performed almost exactly the same as the Patriot and the 100LG in terms of atomization, etc. YMMV.

Have you tried them both? Renegade and Micron that is?

Marine Sniper

 

keilau:

 I know the difference between the HP-CS and the Patriot because I have both. I hope someone else has both a Renegade and the HP-CS can describe the difference too. 

 

The Renegade is in the class of the Micron not the Eclipse.

I had an HP-CS at one time as well and it performed almost exactly the same as the Patriot and the 100LG in terms of atomization, etc. YMMV.

denstore

Have you tried them both? Renegade and Micron that is?

I don't know about Mike. I have neither the Micron nor the Renegade. I do not have the Badger 100LG either.

The HP-CS and Patriot is NOT even close in term of atomization and trigger operation. I also remember reading the book "Scale Aircraft Modelling" (The Crowood Press 2002, ISBN 1861264453) where Mark Stanton described his experience switching from the 100LG to HP-CS (pg. 52-56). Mark obviously did not consider the HP-CS to be close to the 100LG either and call the CS the "Rolls-Royce" airbrush.

I have the Badger Patriot, Iwata HP-CS and the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution Silverline. I may not have the skill to do free hand camo with any of them. But I can tell their differences in use. The Iwata and H&S are just head and shoulder above the Badger. (Comment applied to the 3 AB I have only, not other models.)

I don't mean to start another airbrush war. It is just the honest description of one person's experience.

I havn´t owned the Patriot. I have had several Badgers though. I recently got the Velocity Renegade. I've had the HP-CS for more than 10 years. I've also at different points owned most of the Iwatas. I have several Microns at the moment. Only one Iwata, since I prefere the Olympos Microns.

I wouldn't like to start a "war" either. But I would definitly not put the Velocity on the same level as the Microns. Maybe on the same level as the H&S Evolution, which is usually considered a very good airbrush. Which one would I prefere? Probably the Velocity. I've never liked the H&S triggers.

Is the Velocity a good airbrush? Sure it is. In my honest opinion it's a definite step up for Badger, and a very good detailer at that price. But it is still "raw" in the feel compared to many other. The trigger is a lot better than the other Badgers I've tried, and I could defintly recommend it to people who wants a detail airbrush at a good price. I would say that it is a good alternative to the Iwata HP-C+, HP-CH or the H&S Evolution and Infinity. And looking at what price Badger has choosen to market it for, I would say that it is their own thoughts as well. 

denstore

Have you tried them both? Renegade and Micron that is?

No I have not as I will never pay Iwata's outrageous price to try a Micron.

When I said the Renegade was in the same league as the Micron I am going by what I have heard from automotive airbrush artists as well as info from those who designed the renegade.

keilau

The HP-CS and Patriot is NOT even close in term of atomization and trigger operation. I also

Well you know what they say about opinions.

remember reading the book "Scale Aircraft Modelling" (The Crowood Press 2002, ISBN 1861264453) where Mark Stanton described his experience switching from the 100LG to HP-CS (pg. 52-56). Mark obviously did not consider the HP-CS to be close to the 100LG either and call the CS the "Rolls-Royce" airbrush.

Who is Mark Stanton and why should I believe him?

This subject cracks me up and we have gone round and round on this.

holy moley... and I thought Mac vs. PC wars were intense!

Well, thank you, everyone, for the spirited conversation - the input has been invaluable!

I have actually decided that I will be switching over to Iwata in a few months, for a couple reasons:

For starters, American-made means nothing to me - I'm in Canada, so all these airbrushes are foreign-made to me; all I care about is what will be doing the better job.

More importantly, up here in Toronto the only big place that carries Badger equipment is Micheal's, and their selection of stock is quite inferior - and coupled with that, they dont have any staff knowledgeable about airbrushes. Iwata and Paasche, however, are sold by the big art supply stores, so I will have access to a greater selection of parts/accessories and (hopefully) educated staff.

Lastly, I havent been impressed with the amount of information Badger has available, nor with their customer service. A quick trip over to Iwata provided me with an absolute wealth of articles and tips. Badger doesnt seem to have a fraction of the information Iwata provides. As a novice airbrush user, service and support counts for alot.

Thanks again everyone!

cbaginski

For starters, American-made means nothing to me - I'm in Canada, so all these airbrushes are foreign-made to me; all I care about is what will be doing the better job.

More importantly, up here in Toronto the only big place that carries Badger equipment is Micheal's, and their selection of stock is quite inferior - and coupled with that, they dont have any staff knowledgeable about airbrushes. Iwata and Paasche, however, are sold by the big art supply stores, so I will have access to a greater selection of parts/accessories and (hopefully) educated staff.

 

The choice of airbrush is very personal. It is always advisable to hold on and try the trigger in your hand before deciding. I hope that you can find a supplier of the Harder & Steenbeck nearby in your area too.

Marine Sniper

 

keilau:

 

The HP-CS and Patriot is NOT even close in term of atomization and trigger operation. I also

 

 

Well you know what they say about opinions.

How well an airbrush atomizes and the range and smoothness of its trigger are objective measures, not subjective as you implied.

Marine Sniper

remember reading the book "Scale Aircraft Modelling" (The Crowood Press 2002, ISBN 1861264453) where Mark Stanton described his experience switching from the 100LG to HP-CS (pg. 52-56). Mark obviously did not consider the HP-CS to be close to the 100LG either and call the CS the "Rolls-Royce" airbrush.

 

Who is Mark Stanton and why should I believe him?

Mark Stanton wrote one of the most distributed modelling book. Check the reviews at Amazon yourself. He is a Captain with Emirates Airlines in profession. Writing a book like his before you mock him.

I found his book most helpful and well written. May be that I am a beginner modeler.

keilau

 

The choice of airbrush is very personal. It is always advisable to hold on and try the trigger in your hand before deciding. I hope that you can find a supplier of the Harder & Steenbeck nearby in your area too.

That's another manufacturer I've had my eye on.

I've attended a couple workshops from the miniature painter Mathieu Fontaine - http://www.akaranseth.com/category/blog - I admire his work quite a bit and he extolls the virtues of the Harder & Steenbeck. 

IMO

Badger Velocity = Iwata HP-C.

Badger Sotar = Iwata Micron.

And yes, I've sprayed with all of them before.     I went with the Badgers AB because parts were reasonably priced.   I did go with the Iwata compressors so I'm not bias for an American products. 

keilau

Mark Stanton wrote one of the most distributed modelling book. Check the reviews at Amazon yourself. He is a Captain with Emirates Airlines in profession. Writing a book like his before you mock him.

I am not mocking him I am saying his opinion means nothing to me as I can actually get info from the horses mouth so to speak as I know some of the top people in the airbrushing industry personally. Anyone can write a book and claim to have all the answers.

I found his book most helpful and well written. May be that I am a beginner modeler.

I am not so therein lies the difference.

If you prefer Iwata over Badger that's fine but lets not steer the uninformed to another brand in hopes that it will make them a better airbrush user as that is false. Practice, practice, practice and the brand will make little difference other than personal preference.

cbaginski

Lastly, I havent been impressed with the amount of information Badger has available, nor with their customer service.  

 

Customer service? Badger's customer service is unequaled. I am not sure what you are referring to but Ken Schlotfeldt takes care of people better than any airbrush company period and he is the owner and a personal friend!

brickshooter

IMO

Badger Velocity = Iwata HP-C.

Badger Sotar = Iwata Micron.

 

The Velocity with the fine tip/needle is in the same category as the SOTAR.

Marine Sniper

cbaginski:

Lastly, I havent been impressed with the amount of information Badger has available, nor with their customer service.  

 

Customer service? Badger's customer service is unequaled. I am not sure what you are referring to but Ken Schlotfeldt takes care of people better than any airbrush company period and he is the owner and a personal friend!

Mike

You and I disagree on a topic or two...

But this is something we are in complete agreement with. And I am NOT a friend of Ken's, but I have gotten SUPERB, absolutely SUPERB, customer service from Badger any time I have needed it. That is a company that knows customer service, at least in my experience.

Marine Sniper

Customer service? Badger's customer service is unequaled. I am not sure what you are referring to but Ken Schlotfeldt takes care of people better than any airbrush company period and he is the owner and a personal friend!

I don't for one second doubt what you say about the quality of Badgers customer service,  there have been plenty here that have commented on it, however can you really say that it is unequaled?

For example, I seem to recollect someone recently mentioned on this forum the quality of customer service that they had received from Iwata. They received prompt, personal service & were more than fairly compensated for their issue. I should mention that I am in now way an Iwata proponent.

Marine Sniper

brickshooter:

IMO

Badger Velocity = Iwata HP-C.

Badger Sotar = Iwata Micron.

 

The Velocity with the fine tip/needle is in the same category as the SOTAR.

The Velocity is my general purpose brush.

But once I move into detailed work, the Sotar is clearly better.

Milairjunkie

 

 

 

 

I don't for one second doubt what you say about the quality of Badgers customer service,  there have been plenty here that have commented on it, however can you really say that it is unequaled?

Yes I can say it is unequaled because it is.

I could tell you things about Badger that Media doesn't do very often if at all.

brickshooter

 

Marine Sniper:

 

 

brickshooter:

IMO

Badger Velocity = Iwata HP-C.

Badger Sotar = Iwata Micron.

 

 

The Velocity with the fine tip/needle is in the same category as the SOTAR.

 

 

The Velocity is my general purpose brush.

But once I move into detailed work, the Sotar is clearly better.

 

The Velocity with the fine needle? What makes you think the Sotar is clearly better? Just curious.

Since the Badger Velocity and the Micron were both mentioned I thought this short part of a post from an airbrush forum sums up what I have been saying:

I have the Extreme set which come with all 3 brushes. Velocity, Spirit and the Rage. So far I have tried the Velocity and I was amazed that it shoots very nice. It can pull a hair line just as good as my Micron C.