Imai Golden Hind 1/70

Steve5-

The wire is Dark Annealed Steel Wire, 28 gauge (.41MM)...honestly, it's probably a little thinner than actual *scale*, but I like it because it fits between the links of the chain when I have it twisted.  The Brand is Hillman Anchor Wire, if that helps...I had a sorta hard time finding it, had to order it online.  Hope you can find it more easily.   THX

Docidle-

Thanks, man!  The video is okay...I just want to do things that might help other people learn techniques that are intimidating (like they seem to me at first!)...which is why I made the ratline video.  That one has gotten over 15,000 views, and dozens of people subscribed to me because of it...and I've gotten tons of messages asking for more videos...truthfully, though, there's already lots of videos on youtube that show many of the "arcane" techniques for rigging, so I don't feel like there's a huge need for me to make videos of everything I do...having said that, I might record some more if I feel like a particular stage can be made less daunting with a little demo and some narrative...and it's not like I'm an expert, either...let's say I make a video for when I tie up the shrouds and rig the deadeyes...they probably won't all be perfectly even, but hey, if the technique works, and it helps clarify the procedure for someone...why not share it?  :)

Hoping to get the rest of the chainplates done this weekend...

Dave

Dave,

I was going to ask you who that handsome guy was in the video?

Anyway, I agree that there are numerous videos showing ship modeling techniques, however, having been a corporate trainer many moons ago, your videos, the ratlines and this new one are VERY good.  You take the time to explain and show what you are doing without losing your audience and that is a gift.  When you were in school or being trained on a new technique for work, you probably had favorite teachers or trainers that you connected with, which shows there are good teachers and lousy teachers and many more types in between.  You remember the good ones and the worst in some ways, because you learned something from the good and you survived the bad!  You can be proud that you have subscribers and over 15000 hits.

Hopefully you'll post some more pics from the GH and know I as well as others are looking forward to it.

Steve

Dave I really liked the vid.

You have fingers of gold. For a big guy, those things really respond to your brain. I will guess you play a good guitar.

Piano man myself, and soon will be playing with my elbows.

Thank you for the kind words, gents.

Steve, I'm glad you find my *teaching style* to be engaging...I hope that makes it easier for people to catch on to the method.

GM, I've been playing guitar for pretty much my entire adult life (40 is a few months away!), making music is definitely a big part of who I am...in fact, tomorrow I'm getting together with a few friends and we're going play songs, have a few drinks, and enjoy the Summer time weather!  Good for the soul!

I fiddled around with piano for a time, learned a few classical pieces...one of my favorites for piano is Moonlight Sonata, by LV Beethoven...lots of intensity for such a simple piece, if it's played with intent.

Anyway, I will certainly continue to post updates on this build...but like many, I'm finding the season to be overwhelmingly busy, with weird long shifts at work, and home projects...the GH is shaping up to be the slowest model build so far!  Hopefully by September I'll be able to devote more time to the modeling workbench!  Meanwhile, there she sits, on the bookcase, an empty shell...patiently awaiting my attention!  :)

Dave

Hey everybody!

I was just browsing through the recent ship posts and figured I would bump this thread, and say Howdy!

I've been lucky enough to find some time for modeling lately...the house is painted, and I just put the second coat of stain on the deck this morning, so hopefully the majority of home projects are done for the season.  :)

I started this thread not as a straight-up WIP, but  mainly to highlight the specific mods I'm doing as I build it.  Most of my recent progress has been pretty standard, so I haven't seen much need for updating every step of the way.

I've got the decks installed, and I've been installing deck furniture (pinrails, cleats, ladders, etc.) when I find a couple hours of free time here and there.  I expect I'll be continuing in that direction for a few weeks yet, before the masts go in...at that time, I'll be making a choice regarding sails (Furled or Bare Poles).

Anyway, hope everybody's doing well!

Dave

Good to see you pluggin along Dave.  I too have nearly come to the end of my summer *fixer-upper* projects...and will be entering my Fall/autum model schedule myself.  I hope to finish up the *Glory of the Seas* this year.

From moving to resetting up my house/office/garage/model room.......I'm done with *Projects* for a time.

(I hope)

Good luck.

Rob

Rob- I always love summertime, but it's true, there's not much bandwidth for hobbying!

It's nice to know that fall is a' comin', and with it, some relaxation and modeling!  :)

As for current progress on the GH, I tied the wooldings on the masts recently.  I wish I'd have sanded off the molded-on wooldings first, but I thought I could get away with it, since I used fine thread.  I don't love the way they look, but for a first-attempt, it'll do...and next time, I'll do the proper prep work.

Now that the masts are ready, I'll be putting in the masttops and crosstrees, and the lower topmast deadeyes, then LOOK OUT!...it's rigging time already?!?

I'll be breaking out the shroud and stay lines...

I've noticed a pattern with my ship modeling habits....Once I begin to approach the rigging of a ship model, I also begin to consider my next project....the forthcoming project is decided, and it's a subject that has a polarizing effect on the plastic shipmodeling community at large, so I don't know if I'll feel compelled to post a WIP of it here...but let's just say it's a French Giant.

But for now, here's a couple of pics of the wooldings on the Golden Hind..sorry, I think the pics are a little blurry and the lighting is poor:

Dave

Fantastic work Dave.  I sure like your weathering technique.

"French Giant*?

I too have just about finished summer projects and am getting ready to settle in with some fall model building myself.  I have to finish the rigging of the Glory of the Seas...which has been taking for ever.

Rob

Soleil Royal.  

I know, I know.  But I have to do it.  It's been haunting me, and I think I can make it beautiful!  It'll just take some time.  The La Reale is in the queue, but I want to save that one for when I feel like a pro.  Same with the Victory.

I'm glad you like the weathering technique....I find it more consistent than using wet washes...in fact, I hardly even use washes anymore.

I really dig the Glory....I always think about the Cutty Sark you showed me last year....love your rigging work....I especially liked the difference in tautness of the rigging....some of your running rigging was set with the perfect amount of realistic sag...very cool.

The trick in getting proper sag is in using nylon line stained with an alcohol wash...when dry it sags like the real thing with no defects in the swag(twists/bends,rolls of an unnatural nature).  Standing rigging is left alone while the running rigging gets the treatment.  Tight strait taught running rigging lines are unrealistic in my view.

Good luck my friend.

Rob

Good advice, Rob!

By the way, does anyone have a recommendation for a good set of rigging plans for the Golden Hind?  Not that the Imai instructions seem inaccurate to me, but they don't offer much detail, even leaving out some steps (for example, bowsprit gammoning isn't mentioned at all in the instructions)...I found a PDF of the Revell plans online, so I'll consult those...but I wondered if there is a really good and detailed rigging plan floating around, perhaps from another manufacturer?

THX

To begin with, a big caveat: scarcely anything is known for sure about the real Golden Hind, and as far as I know no primary sources about her rigging exist. All reconstructions of her, including the Imai kit, are just that - reconstructions.

That said, a fair amount of info about typical rigging of the late sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries is available. If I were you, the one I'd use more than any other is a volume in the Conway Anatomy of the Ship series: The Merchantman Susan Constant, 1607, by Brian Lavery. He was the designer of the reconstructed ships now at Jamestown - and he really know his stuff. If you rigged your Golden Hind according to the many drawings in that book, I don't think anybody would claim you were wrong. I certainly wouldn't.

Like so many other good books for modelers, this one's out of print. I did, however, find a couple of used copies at surprisingly reasonable prices on the Barnes and Noble used book page:  http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-susan-constant-1607-brian-lavery/1000106776?ean=9780870215834 . After you recover from the prices on the page that opens up when you click the link, click on "Used - From $15.00."

I've bought lots of used books through Barnes and Noble; their service is fast and reliable.

Another tip regarding rigging. I have a new favorite source for blocks - at least for ships prior to the late nineteenth century. A fine modeler named Chuck Passaro has set up a firm called Syren Ship Model Company that sells boxwood and pearwood blocks (among other things). I ordered some a little while back, mainly to see what they're like. They're by far the best wood-stropped blocks for model builders that I've ever seen - and the prices aren't bad. His laser-cut acrylic hooks are also superb. Here's the link:  http://www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com .

Hope that helps. Regarding your choice of the Soleil Royal - no comment. I've shot off my mouth about that one enough.

Good luck.

Thanks for the info, John!

I think the Lavery book may be just what I could use...think I'll order it.  Turns out, Amazon has it listed by a 3rd party (used), as well...from the Half Price Books in Ohio....same price and same vendor as the B&N used vendor!

You know, I've been hearing a lot about the Syren company....Steve (docidle) has been using their stuff, and he also has great things to say about it.  The line looks amazing!  Tell me, do the boxwood blocks come from Syren already rounded and smooth along the edges, as in the pictures on their website?  Some of the wooden blocks I've got from MS are very rough on the edges, requiring a lot of delicate sanding and cleanup...kind of a pain.  I think for the Golden Hind, I will use the Imai line, and the molded plastic *blocks*, but in the future, I can see myself going to Syren to supply myself with both, especially for kits in which the supplied line and blocks are terribly crummy....

*totally natural segue*

As far as the Heller Soleil Royal.  Thank you for not browbeating me for mentioning that it's to be my next build.  I know that you (and others) have a bad taste from the kit, and I get it.  We've had discussions here about what it means to be a Serious Scale Modeler, and of course, the definition of that term is as varied as can be.  The truth is, I'm excited to jump into building the SR, and I think it will teach me a lot about intricate details, planning, and researching, and some kit modification. Truthfully, with all the negativity that surrounds it, I won't be posting any kind of WIP, simply because I wish to avoid having a thread that attracts the nay-saying and such....Though, I may likely post some inquiries during that build, and I hope (hope, hope) that I can count on those among the forum to help without prejudice, whilst I learn on my own whether the SR is a worthy expense of my time (and $$ for blocks and line!!).   :)

After all, and I've said this before....without the help of such admirable and knowledgeable peers, I wouldn't be as interested (or skilled) in shipmodeling as I am right now.  I learn more with each kit I build!

Thanks for the support, you guys!

Dave

P.S.- I just ordered the Susan Constant book, thanks for the suggestion!

David;

Yes, the Syrene blocks are completely finished and look every bit as good as they do in the pics. Their cordage is equally exceptional (IMHO), all well worth the money. Syrene now also carries deadeyes, but you have to assemble them and do some tumbling as well. I have been quite happy w/ the MS deadeyes on the whole.

As for your book, you might want to check out Abe Books. I have found a few books at a much cheaper price than anywhere else. They are quite reliable and the shipping costs are more than reasonable.

Hope this helps. Keep up the exceptional work!

Yeah, the Syren Ship Models blocks are nicely rounded - unlike the shoddy HECEPOB blocks that come in most Model Shipways kits. And the grooves are clean, and nicely centered, and the holes are lined up perfectly. I'm not sure how Mr. Passaro manages to sell these beauties for such low prices.

I have one reservation about Syren Ship Models' rope. If the photos are to be believed, it's all cable-laid (i.e., spun up counter-clockwise). Another way to put it: in cable-laid rope the strands form a Z shape. In hawser-laid rope, they form an S shape. [Later edit: The first time I typed that I got it backwards. Sorry about that; I've fixed it. Here's a picture that should clarify things:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope . Scroll down till you get to the picture on the right size that shows the S and Z.] Cottage Industry Models offers its "CIM Rope" spun in either direction. I suspect Mr. Passaro also could put his rope-making machine in reverse; I haven't asked him.

I don't imagine anybody knows what the lay of sixteenth- and early seventeenth-century rigging line was, but by the mid-seventeenth century, and continuing through at least the early nineteenth century, cable-laid line was used for the major parts of the standing rigging and hawser-laid (spun up clockwise) line was used for virtually everything else.

How much difference all this makes is, of course, up to the individual modeler. But this is why lots of serious scale ship modelers are accustomed to making their own line.

Incidentally, there seems to be a common misconception about the word "Syren." It doesn't have an E on the end of it. "Syren," in the English language, is just an archaic equivalent of the modern word "Siren" - i.e., a magical lady who sings "siren songs" that lure sailors to untimely deaths. Mr. Passaro took the name from a kit he designed for Model Shipways, the brig Syren. (It's a terrific kit; I have one in my stash. I intend to throw out the supplied blocks and replace them with Mr. Passaro's.) When I called Model Expo to order it, the lady on the phone pronounced it "Syrene" (with a long E). ME also has a video about it; the narrator mispronounces the name as well. I don't know how that habit got started.

Amazon and Barnes and Noble collaborate with many of the same used book dealers; it's not surprising that the same books, at the same prices, show up on both websites. Abe's Books is part of the system; several books I've bought through B&N have come from that store. I'm a big fan of them. My most remarkable haul so far is a copy of Lost Moon, the book on which the movie "Apollo 13" was based. It cost me $2.00 (plus about $4.00 shipping. I don't think the dealer noticed the most remarkable feature of it: Captain Lovell's autograph on the title page.

If you ever come up empty on a search of Amazon or B&N, try Bookfinder.com or Al Libris. They both operate internationally.

Thanks for the insight, you guys!  By all accounts, the Syren company has great quality products...can't wait to check some of it out.  And it's always good to hear about additional sources for used books.  I ended up buying that Anatomy of the Susan Constant from a different seller than the HPB Ohio...theirs was listed as *good* condition, but Rick's Books (another used book vendor on Amazon) had a copy in *like new* condition listed for the same price, so I figured I'd go with that one.  If anyone else is looking for that book, there are several copies available for 15 plus 4 bucks shipping used, from various vendors...much friendlier than $136 new!  haha

Anyway, thanks again...

I guess I'll be waiting until my copy arrives to begin standing rigging.  I want to figure out exactly where I should install blocks on the masts and yards before I run the shrouds.

Dave

Hi all-

I figured this would be as good a time as any to post an update....

Got all my lower shrouds on, and the lanyards seized...

Not bad, for my first attempt at full shrouds and deadeyes....I don't LOVE the final result, but it'll do.  :)

I've learned a couple of things so far, such as that I may rely too heavily on Super Glue...it works great to hold knots, but it also has the effect of soaking into the line and stiffening it terrifically...sometimes that's a bad thing, because glued lines don't like to lie closely together at the masthead...

Anyway, here's a couple of quick pics....

How funny!

I just noticed in the picture that the one gunport is molded shut below that channel, and I didn't rig it with line....though I drilled holes in the door and the hull to accommodate line!  Guess I have unfinished business down there!  

Dave,

She is looking great!  I know what you mean about the Super Glue issues.  I am starting to steer away from it myself.  The Nina's shrouds have the exact issue you have on your GH.  It is great to get something to stick quickly but it hardens too stiffly.  It just means that I will have to slow down even more....... man, that means my progress will be even more glacial than before.

Your lanyards look really nice and the shrouds look like they have the right tension but i know what you mean about not loving them.  For a first attempt you did an outstanding job in my opinion.

Steve

Thanks, Steve!

Yeah, Super Glue is awesome for making knots strong in a hurry, but when I need line to lie naturally, or to tuck in against other lines, it's no good.  Convenient, but dangerous!  May be a good idea to get everything where it belongs, THEN apply a dab of super glue to the line.  Care is necessary.

Some of the shrouds are tight enough, but some of the forward ones loosened up as I moved aft.  When I did the mizzen shrouds, I started at the aftmost, and worked fore...and that made a huge difference!  I'll be doing shrouds aft-to-fore on my next build.  

All in all, though...I'm pretty pleased so far.  Like always, I've been learning a lot.

Thinking I might take a break from ships after this and build a race car model, before I sink my teeth into the French Behemoth in the bottom of the closet...

I have the same issues w/ CA and lines, although it remains my glue of choice.

I have found that the gel type does not wick as much, but takes a bit longer to set. I have also discovered though, that the thin type wicks like crazy, which has come in very handy for setting the deadeyes in their strops (just a tiny drop on the edge and it wicks all the way around the groove without getting on the face of the deadeye and clogging the holes). Its also really nice to use for making a "needle" end for threading your line.

For rope coils, I have been using Syrene cordage which I have found you can soak it with water (no need for glue and no sheen to dul-coat after it dries) before or after you loop it. Once you adjust the hang (droop) of the coil, the weight of the wet line holds its shape after it dries, stays that way. I have tried this with other cordage w/ little or no success. Might have something to do with whether or not the cordage is synthetic of if its made on rope walk like Syrene's is.

It's so true...despite the problems it can cause...CA is still the most practical choice!  

I'll have to pick up some of the Gel type...but you're right, the thin stuff has good qualities about it...

I've never used any of the supplies from Syren, but I've heard nothing but good things....I'll likely buy some rigging line and fittings from them for a special project I'm planning in the future...

Ratlines, Ratlines, Ratlines....

:)

I have a quick question, for anyone who might be watching this thread:

So I'm getting the spars rigged with blocks and looking ahead to running rigging, and I realize that the knighthead on deck for the main halyard is aft and off to STARBOARD of the main mast....that would mean that my halyard tyes will need to come through the cheeks, and then angle off slightly to the righ and downt, before reeving through the ramshead block and into the knighthead....

Is this way off?  I can't seem to find any pics of the correct angle to see if the knighthead is always directly abaft the mast...it seems funny, but if it can pass for correct, then I'm happy...if it's a contrivance of blasphemy, I'm not sure I can correct it at this point...the deck has a big ol' locator crater where the knighthead is already installed like a fencepost, and there's no room behind the mast to relocate it, anyway...the bulkhead is in the way....

Thoughts?

THX

Dave

Don't know if this will help or not. Deciphering it could be iffy.

Also found this pic which, of course, does not seem to show any belays to the block you are talking about.

Arnie, it's perfect!

I can see by the drawings that (6) is the callout for the halyard, and the top-view deck drawing indeed shows the knigthhead (bitt for 6) to be off-center of the mast...

And then the picture even shows the Knighthead in the shadows just to the right of the staircase, though there are no lines running up from it.

Thank you kindly, my friend!

Mystery solved!  :)

Dave

Dave,

Your work is always a pleasure to look at and, from my standpoint, a learning experience.

I noted that John (jtilley) mentioned "Seamanship in the Age of Sail" as a reference to furled sails. I have the book and in chapter 7 beginning on page 96 is a lot of the information anyone would need with regard to "Bending, Loosing and Furling Sail". A cursory look on the net turned it up here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=g7Jd_o6_s90C&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=furled+sixteenth-century+sail&source=bl&ots=cWojQ18Zbd&sig=ZcotfJiHqo8woe6KiRtmf3s2ZxE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9UNtVMfALqfciAKuk4GwAg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=furled%20sixteenth-century%20sail&f=false

I hope this is of some use. I'm not convinced it should be posted on the Internet without proper permission but, for the moment I'll assume that whoever posted it did/does have the right to do so.

Mike

I don't have any problem with the knight head being off-center. I imagine the reason has to do with something essential that's in the way of it somewhere below decks.

I do hope the kit doesn't have a steering wheel (like the replica in Arnie's photo). The steering wheel was invented about a hundred years later; the Golden Hind almost unquestionably would have been steered with a whip staff.

Thanks for the kind words, Mike!  And thanks for the link...it provided a lot of good details on furling!

Though, I'm still unsure of exactly how I'll proceed with the sails on this build...the *authentic* technique seems as if it will be tricky to pull off in scale, and also it will obviously require the sails to be furled with the yards already installed.  I may try my hand at a practice run, on a false mast/yard jig, with some tissue paper (or similar, I can't seem to find any of the silkspan material I've heard about)...I don't really like working with tissue, and any cloth that I use will clearly be super thick and oversized, especially since with that technique I won't be able to pull the illusion by shortening the sail material before furling.

We'll see what happens, but I expect I'll end up with a standard roll/gather of material lashed to the yard.

But, I am at exactly the stage where it's time to start working on the sails...so I better figure something out!  haha

John, it's funny...I didn't even notice the wheel at first!  This kit doesn't include a steering wheel, but there's no visible whipstaff, either....but it does have the little cubbyhole (companionway?) where the helmsman could look out while steering the ship.

Dave

Dave....make your sails out of paper...cut to scale then crumple them and crumple them and crumple them and crumple them an..............until they are so soft and suptle then afix.  They are easy and look great...plus you can add reefs or simply draw in the canvas seam lines..with stinching if you like.

Believe me it looks great but is quite technique sensitive and requires lots of tenacity.

Try it.

Rob