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Tha General Lee , Ironclads and Figures

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  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Thursday, July 2, 2015 12:33 PM

While we're on the subject of controversy of banning the Confederate Flag, what about the state flag of Mississippi? Funny, nobody made a big ol' stink about that...

free-printable-flags.com/.../mississippi.gif

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Thursday, July 2, 2015 12:32 PM

GMorrison

Thats exactly right, and there'll be no problem with reenactments going on. Heck, first Fourth of July parade I went to back in the 90's in the town where I used to live, big contingent of WW2 vehicles and uniformed folks from the era. Including a bunch of SS Waffen guys in camo. Not to my taste and I never went back, but their rights to do so.

One fact you may not be aware of is that re-enactors begin with one impression but add an alternate impression as money and resources permit.
Had the event been scheduled for more that one day, you most likely would have seen many of those very same Waffen SS guys dressed up later as American, British or Russian.
I knew a guy of Japanese ancestry who showed up at an event dressed up as Japanese infantry as a secondary impression;his primary impression was American ETO.
.
One additional comment:
As I recall, during the time frame of the 1970s through the 1990s and, perhaps later, the only source of GI WWII rough out boots for re-enactors was - you guessed it- WWII GI rough out boots.
.
If other veterans did what my father did, they would have used their boots as work boots.
Guess what? The supply of GI rough out boots was , IIRC, restricted by the 1980s to a very few near child sizes.
I know this because I was trying to collect enough gear to do a GI impression.
Did those Waffen SS guys wear "jack boots" .
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If so, they might have been surplus East German boots or if short boots were used then it was possible to  use modern American boots ( no toe cap) as a substitute.
Perhaps those guys in German uniform were unable to assemble a GI uniform.
Please don't judge 'em just on that one event.
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, July 2, 2015 12:23 PM

Thats exactly right, and there'll be no problem with reenactments going on. Heck, first Fourth of July parade I went to back in the 90's in the town where I used to live, big contingent of WW2 vehicles and uniformed folks from the era. Including a bunch of SS Waffen guys in camo. Not to my taste and I never went back, but their rights to do so.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Thursday, July 2, 2015 12:00 PM

I would like to mention, before this thread is locked Whistling, that I used to do American Civil War re-enacting when I was still young and agile enough to do a good representation.

I chose to wear Federal blue as my primary persona simply due to an ancestor who fought for the Union.

I want to mention that I do not recall hearing anyone on the Confederate side espousing anything that defended slavery. 

The people I knew were historians and wanted to present an accurate impression for anyone who visited encampments and battles.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:53 AM

I guess it depends on your point of view Rudy.

I really thought it was a great week, except for the Trade Agreement.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:52 AM

GMorrison

...........

The original designs had the cross "upright" ala the Cross of St. George on the British flag. That was changed to the St. Andrews cross, specifically so as not to conflate church and state.

Thanks for that info.
I had been told long ago that the flag was changed due to confusion in battle ( ie; a lotta black powder smoke )  with Old Glory.
  • Member since
    April 2015
  • From: Detroit, MURDER CITY
Posted by RudyOnWheels on Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:50 AM

I am overly disgusted with what is going on in this nation, ESPECIALLY over the last week. Brilliant creations by the 9 lawyers in black robes like "subconscious racism/prejudice"..... Using a term called "disparate impact", that ONLY looks at the numbers of a situation. For example, if you look at a neighborhood in nowhere, Oklahoma, and the population is 98% Hispanic, then by "disparate impact" the builders of the homes were "subconsciously racist" because more homes were not sold to people of another color. So now, the federal government will be socially engineering your neighborhood, you know, to create a "utopia" of "equality", and will build a housing project next to YOUR house. Therefore stealing your private property (value), not to mention the crime that traditionally comes with said housing projects...   Religion is also 100% under attack, this is simply a fact.  Who needs religion, for these people GOVERNMENT is their religion....

I am flabbergasted to hear you were ejected from two shows because of a scale model representation of a Nazi ship? I can possibly see the one in the Jewish Synagogue, but the other one,  c'mon.....

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:41 AM

I do see that a lot of people are going to know a lot more about this flag, it's variations, the origin of its design and so on than ever before.

The original designs had the cross "upright" ala the Cross of St. George on the British flag. That was changed to the St. Andrews cross, specifically so as not to conflate church and state.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:30 AM

tankerbuilder

 Does this mean when I spend $150.00 to $200.00 on a resin model of a Confederate Ironclad I won't get flags with it ?

 

The Virginia ( ex-Merrimac ) still flew the original Stars and Bars, IIRC.

Dunno if that one is banned as well so you might be able to obtain one for your build.

OTOH............

Seems to me that modern printers and simple graphics programs can reproduce the flags needed for a build. Might wanna grab the images while ya can, however.Wink

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:28 AM

Thank You " G "

    I never put to much into the flag . I just knew it symbolized many things to many folks .Don't get me wrong . I can't be too wrong . Over 45,000 men of color served that flag .What about their memory ? See , it goes many ways .

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:28 AM

I agree GMorrison

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:10 AM

Well obviously it was a straw dog, a test case.

Maybe when the flag in question has been gone for a while, those who cherish it will do a better job of protecting it's legacy and beating the crap out of any white supremacists who carry it.

Because like it or not, a lack of vigilance on their part has turned it into a national joke.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    June 2015
Posted by Axeman on Thursday, July 2, 2015 11:04 AM

agreed!

as for the Oklahoma supreme court,that case was brought about by a group of satanists wanting to put an "artifact,religious" on the capitol grounds where a "artifact,religious,christian-10 commandments" existed and now must be removed so the satanists cannot put their artifact up either.......at least Oklahomans still have a few local hobby shops!!!

......and tornados

......and earthquakes

......and did i mention its really hot here?

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Thursday, July 2, 2015 10:56 AM

Axeman - this shows how ignorant folks today are. So afraid (or admit) to face the reality of our world history. Yes WW2 Germany was a dark period of the 20th Century. So was The Holocaust, WW1, The Revolutionary War, Civil War, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm. We fought to preserve our freedom and fought hard we did. But a heavy price was paid. Was it worth it? Absolutely!

This country to getting to be too political correct. The sad thing of it all, these same people/politicians are all trying to make them go away.  They just don't care about history nor want to understand the when, the why, and the reason behind it. Now I heard stores are banning the sales of The Dukes of Hazzard DVD sets. WTH!?!?

To this day, whether liberal folks like it or not, the KKK and Neo-*** are still around and there's not a darn thing anyone can do to stop it. What's scary is these same folks are a danger to our society. They want to change OUR CONSTITUTION. Why? They feel it's outdated. Wrong, they don't realize freedom comes with a price and it's earned, NOT given.

Just recently, I read online that in Oklahoma Supreme Court ordered the Ten Commandments Monument to be removed from the capital building grounds. WHAT!?!? Seriously? Is it that all offensive? Give me a break. Whatever happened to Freedom of Religion? If they don't like it, don't look at it! Better yet, leave this great country of ours! SImple as that!

I apologize for the rant, but I just won't stand by and let our government destroy our nation and freedom. The controversy regarding the Stars and Bars and the ban of such things is far too late to stop it. Get over it and learn to tolerate it. The Stars and Bars did not make the shooter kill innocent lives in that church in South Carolina. His mental illness did.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, July 2, 2015 10:44 AM

Tanks, the problem I see is that the flag had a good historic run from the end of the Civil War up to say the early 20th Century. That was a time when many veterans were still alive, or their immediate families were, and remembrance was important. but then it disappeared for quite a long time except as a museum piece and an historic artifact.

Go forward to the formation of the Dixiecrats, the States Rights Party in 1948 and the far more vile National States Rights Party in 1958. And the violent era of the struggle for civil rights in the 50's and 60's. At that time the flag re emerged in various forms, maybe not the Battle Flag but unmistakably related to it, as a symbol of segregation.

Where was the indignation then? I recently watched a show with an ardent defender of the flag in its historic context. When asked about it's use by unspeakable elements, the defence was "It was stolen!".

Well, steal it back!

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    June 2015
Posted by Axeman on Thursday, July 2, 2015 10:34 AM

An associate once said to me....."man,all your nazi models make it look like your some kind of skinhead"(btw i have a LOT of hair,think 2'-3' ponytail)

i had made the mistake of showing him my collection,which is mainly WW2 German vehicles and figures,sci-fi kits,and warhammer 40k,with a few cars and space kits mixed in.

needless to say,i never showed them off to another "associate" again,friends,family,internet pics sure....folks i dont know well?,in my space?......no way

  • Member since
    August 2008
Tha General Lee , Ironclads and Figures
Posted by tankerbuilder on Thursday, July 2, 2015 9:42 AM

Okay ;

       To whom do I address this .? Seems that folks are trying to make our history go away . Now the General Lee . It's a car , for gosh sakes .Yes , it's orange and , Yes it has the flag on top . Know sumpin ? When you look at it from any angle that's representative of someone on foot , you can't see the flag !!

        The thing is It's quite common in the south . Many good things have come from here too ! Now back to models . Does this mean when I spend $150.00 to $200.00 on a resin model of a Confederate Ironclad I won't get flags with it ?

       Supppose I did figures ? that mean in certain types of vignettes the Union flag can be displayed , but the Confederate one cannot ?   These are questions that will pop  up , I am sure . What's the Answer here ?

       I don't want to see us , as a group of modelers and as a nation , become the laughing stock of the world . We are not far from it now . I say let the people decide and being as how I never used the flag on my General Lee , I digress . I thought it ruined the car .

      In closing , I hope that this foofoorah doesn't mean like the former symbol of the national socialist party in Germany we won't be able to get decals or display any model that has the Confederate flag on it

 I have been ejected from two shows with my 1/200 Bismark because of that darned emblem . How was I to know  fifteen years ago that a building where one of the shows was , was owned by a Synagogue ? I intended no offense in any way . It is a model for gosh sakes !  Thank You , Tanker - Builder

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