UH-1E from an F + B or C?

Steve,

  Thanks.  Anyone want to see more Echos?  If so I have only begun to post.  I'd personally love to see any you guys have as well.  I'll put this thread in the "Links to huey threads" thread at the top of the page for future referrence.  I think we have explored this topic pretty well and there's some great info and photos with all the stuff you and Huey367 have posted.

   Ray

Was that a color? 

Seems that all the reserve squadrons (Navy and Marine) were getting nicely redone UH/HH-1E/Ks from rework in late 70s into the 80s with the extreme flat paint.  Can't tell you the FS number, don't know it, but if you parked it in the trees, you'd loose it.

Steve

Hey Huey367

The UH-1E and AH-1J are out of Hawaii.   That's Kaneohe in the background.  I "think" that's an "EW" but eyes might be playing tricks.    So i think this "crowd" was working up for the westpac float.  EW is tailcode for H&MS-24 out of MCAS Kaneohe Bay.

I was at HMX later, when the VH's came out of the desert and were seriously upgraded.  Porche of Hueys.

Huey on!

Regards
Steve

Since I have the Echo experts' attention, maybe one of you can tell me the proper color for this bird.  I think this is around 79. also from the archives down at P'cola.  Not really a visually interesting scheme but I guess an effective one. Thanks for all the info so far guys.

    Ray

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The Huey and J model Cobra picture was taken between 1971 or 1972. The EM on the tail is for HMM-261 and would have been shot while on detachment to the squadron during a Med or Carib cruse. This is one of the very few pictures of the 2 together.

The original 9 Sea Cobras showed up at VMO-1 in September 1970 and were sent to Vietnam late summer 71 with pilots and crew. The next 6 Sea Cobras went directly to HMM-261 along with VMO-1s last 6 E model Hueys. HML-167 was formed at New River and VMO-1 was split. The OV-10s stayed with VMO and the new UH-1Ns including 6 Navy UH-1Ns, painted epoxy gray, with a special artic package formed HML-167. I went with 167 and in 1972 I went with HMA-269 when 167 was split to form the Cobra squadron.

I was in HMX-1 Executive Squadron in 1976, we had 6 UH-1Ns and 6 HH-1Ns. The 2 White Tops had leather seats and a special radio package. The other 4 had padded seats with the VIP package. Only the the President or Cabinet could use the White Tops. Whole other topic.

Steve,

  Sorry, That photo doesn't have a date that I can find listed.  It was part of the archive slides down in P'cola as was this one.  No date here either, but this is one of my favorite Echo shots (the snake in the background is cool too).

  Ray

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Hey Grandadjohn,

I would have bet along with you about moving the pitot and re-tanking but the photos are showing the changes.  Must be a Marine thing.  At least we were going for some kind of standardization..........which was generally achieved..........just when they were on the way to AMARC.    Maybe it was just cheaper to get it done in Tainan.

Regards
Steve

Ray,

I believe that was 167's Christmas bird. 

OUTstanding UH-1E addition.  Did you have a year for that?  It "Appears" to be NAS Ellyson Field.  It would "Appear" that they (USN HT-8 or HT-18) just recieved a "New" addition to the training fleet.  HT-8, the basic helicopter training squadron split keeping the basic mission and splitting off the advanced to HT-18 in 1972.  Thanks for posting that.

I'm sure that's the maintenance officer discussing how they are going to paint out the MARINES and paint in NAVY and generally "ugly up" the paint job. 

The VH-1N shot was taken in 1982-83 timeframe.  I took the shot.

Regards
Steve

Huey367 wrote:

The N model Huey is from HMX-1. They have 2 paint jobs - White Top tricked out for the President and the one shown with just a pretty paint job. The Christmas Huey was an HML-367 Huey for Bob Hope on of his Christmas tours in Vietnam.

 Sorry I should have mentioned that the "Christmas Huey" is from 1970.  The photos were taken by Troy Fultz and sent to me by Wayne Mutza.  According to what I wrote down it was HML-167 but perhaps I mistyped the description.

     Ray

Here's another Echo from the archives down in P'cola.  Just cause you can never have enough pics of Hueys!

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Hey Huey367,

Good info, thanks for posting that.

The VH-1N that I posted is a tad more than just a good looking paintjob.    In fact, it has the same tricks as the white tops.  Just look at the doors.  No sliding doors for this one. 

Regards
Steve

Here's ome facys you maybe interrested in:

Marine Helicopters/Rotorcraft - 1932- 2008+

Bell
HTL-2 HMX-1-- 1st a/c 9 Aug 48
HTL-3 HMX-1, VMO-6
HTL-4 HMX-1, VMO-6

AH-1G "Cobra" 38 loaned from Army. 9 lost in Vietnam. 1 T-53-L-13 engine
AH-1J "SeaCobra"  VMO-1 --1st a/c Sept 70. 2 T-400-CP-400 engines
AH-1T "SeaCobra"
Improved version. T-400-WV-402 TOW capability HMA-169 -- 1st a/c May 78
AH-1W "SuperCobra" T-700-GE- HMLA-169 -- 1st a/c Mar 86
AH-1Z "Viper" Upgrade of AH-1W w/4-blade main rotor

UH-1B "Huey" 20 loaned from Army. Operated by VMO-1 1966-68
VH-1D "Huey" 2 used by HMX-1 1970-72
UH-1E "Huey" T-53-L-11
HH-1K "Huey" SAR version T-53-L-13
UH-1N "Huey" T-400-CP-400
HH-1N "Huey" SAR version
VH-1N VIP version. HMX-1 had 6
UH-1Y "Venom" In service with HMLAT-303 2008

151266/151298  Bell UH-1E Iroquois
    c/n 6001/6033.  For US Marine Corps
    151267 (UH-1L: C/n 6002). Became N455CC, which registration was cancelled Apr 30, 2003 as 'destroyed'
    151268 (c/n 6003) Noted Mar 2006 at National Museum of Naval
     Aviation, Pensacola, FL
    151299 is not a UH-1E according to Bell records.  Next c/n (6034) is BuNo 151840.

151840/151887  Bell UH-1E Iroquois
    C/n 6035/6082.  For USMC.  Bell records have these as being 6034/6081
    151848 (c/n 6043) to AMARC as 7H0172 Oct 8, 1986
    151849 (c/n 6044) crashed NAS Jacksonville, FL Oct 23, 1968
    151853 (c/n 6048) to AMARC as 7H0168 Sep 15, 1986
    151858 (c/n 6052) to civil registry as N121FC.  Listed as written off and scrapped.
    151875 (c/n 6069) became N151LC, then EC-ERK

153740/153767  Bell UH-1E Iroquois
    c/n 6107/6134.  For USMC.  Bell records have these as being c/n 6106/6133

154730/154749  Bell TH-1E Iroquois
154750/154780  Bell UH-1E Iroquois
    C/n 6134/6164 according to Bell records.  For USMC
    154759 at National Naval Air Museum, Pensacola, FL
    154760 noted Nov 20, 2006 at National Museum of the United
     States Marine Corps, Quantico, VA
    154764 to AMARC as 7H0169 Sep 15, 1986

154943/154969  Bell UH-1E Iroquois
    c/n 6165/6191 according to Bell records
    154945 (c/n 6167) to civil registry as N5010J, then CS-HBT
    154949 (c/n 6171) became N116HS.  Formerly stored at Beckley,
     England.
    154951 to N4692Z
    154957 (c/n 6180) to AMARC as 7H0171 Oct 8, 1986
    154961 w/o Oct 3, 1979

155337/155367  Bell UH-1E Iroquois
    c/n 6192/6202 according to Bell records.   
    155344 to civil registry as N454CC.
    155348 (c/n 6203) to civil registry as N48SS, then CS-HBU. 
    155350 (c/n 6205) to civil registry as N5025V in 1988.  Exported to New Zealand
     as ZK-IUE in 2002.
    155351 (c/n 6207) became N5089Q; registration cancelled by FAA Feb 13, 2003 as 'destroyed'
155355/155367  Bell UH-1E Iroquois
    Contract cancelled.

The N model Huey is from HMX-1. They have 2 paint jobs - White Top tricked out for the President and the one shown with just a pretty paint job. The Christmas Huey was an HML-367 Huey for Bob Hope on of his Christmas tours in Vietnam.

VMO-1 New River, NC

The first UH-1Es were painted a flat field green when we got them. Then they began to arrive in a bright field green. Then they went to PAR and came back with a special non-IR reflecting paint that got so hot you could fry eggs on it. Than they painted them with a new shiny epoxy green paint.

HML-367 WestPAC

The Hueys we had were a flat green. We used hydrolic fluid to shine them up for VIP missions. We had several Hueys that came off a ship or the Rose Garden that had several shades of green from flat to bright depending on where they went to PAR. The spotted ones are because you used what ever you could find to make repairs as long as it was green. Every once in a while you would see them with bright lime green spots. This was a dye penitrating paint used to look for cracks. Sooner or later they would be painted.

So, if you have any green paint that looks similar to a picture - use it and you will be accurate.

But here is a much nicer "Ride".  Stab Bar "N", 158553.  More recent, find it as a rebuilt HH-1N.

Regards
Steve

rotorwash wrote:

That bird is a perfect example of why there is no "true OD"  in any paint line.  You can find every shade of OD immaginable on Army birds at one time or another depending on age of the parts and when/where they were painted.  I'm not very suprised to see mismatched panels and doors.  In fact, it's one of the things I want to work on with my future builds, matching the mismatched nature of many Hueys in Vietnam.  I just figured you'd want one that had matching parts for hauling generals around.    Ray Now here's what your VIP bird should look like! [img]http://" border="0" />[/img]

I remember one time walking out on the flight line with a couple of pilots and one remarked about a heavily spot painted Huey "I didn't know there where that many shades of OD"

I don't remember any Army birds the had the fuel filler moved from the right to the left during any rebuilds or have the pitot tube moved from the nose to the roof either. Not saying it never happened though.

I think that photo above with the Hydrualic fluid wax job looks pretty good as a VIP bird.  Once it washes off........it's back to being scuzzie again.

Any VIP would be proud to ride in it.  

Regards
Steve

That bird is a perfect example of why there is no "true OD"  in any paint line.  You can find every shade of OD immaginable on Army birds at one time or another depending on age of the parts and when/where they were painted.  I'm not very suprised to see mismatched panels and doors.  In fact, it's one of the things I want to work on with my future builds, matching the mismatched nature of many Hueys in Vietnam.  I just figured you'd want one that had matching parts for hauling generals around.

   Ray

Now here's what your VIP bird should look like!

[img]http://" border="0" />[/img]

Doors and cowlings are all interchangable.  May or may not have exactly the same paint on it when it goes back on (close but not exact most of the time...........sometimes not even close.....sometimes one wonders just where they FOUND it).  Most of the time CC's keep the bureau number on the back of the removed parts, not always.  The intake looks to me to be a replacement........Army OD as it comes from the factory.  You may or may not have time to paint it prior to putting it on.

Sometimes the aircraft becomes a hodge podge of parts.  Hydraulic fluid does wonders in smoothing it all out for either an inspection or a VIP flight.  One note..........don't go into a really dusty LZ with your VIP on board..........

Steve

Steve,

  Well if that's how the Marines treat their VIP's, but the door is a different color as is the air intake on the roof.  Pretty sure the Army made sure all their VIP birds were one colorb Whatever makes you happy though!

Ray

(actually I got no idea if that is true of Army VIP birds, but I had to have a little fun, eh)

Ray, Ray, Ray.....what am i gonna do with you?    Gloss OD?  Shame Shame.........how's about a VIP flight and wash it down in Hydrastic Fluid...........instant Gloss field green.  Now a VIP flight with it's OWN self protection?    MAYBE carry one VIP.  He can carry the ammo.

I can't say that is a VIP flight...........but thats what we did to spiff them up. I have another Gun bird standing inspection that i know was washed up. 

My "catagories":

B-E = E with B head.

540-E = self expl.  Be the same as C-E. 

Then you gotta count for the tails. W W/O.  A "B-C-E" must be an E with 204 tail, and C head and E fuselage. 

Now you gotta count for Tanks/Pitots.  My personal guess is that 2 separate organizations did the upgrades.  But that's a guess.  Factory Team and or Depot. (SDLM, PAR, NARF, etc).

Regards
Steve

Steve,

  Good stuff!  I see you found another one of the wierd B/C-E birds (seems as good a designation as any at the moment).  That high vis scheme was pretty much gone from the Army by 67, but as we've said the Marines do things differently!  It's also interesting that the fuselage looks to be gloss OD and not the Field Green used by the Marines in most fo the Vietnam photos I have.  Here's one of the 540 E's (courtesy of wayne Mutza from Gary Zimmerman) at Phu Bai in Aug of 68 and you can see the difference when compared to the bird you posted.  That in itself is interesting.  Also, note the early bell mouth intake on this bird. By 68 most Army UH-1B's and all UH-1C's already had the particle separator installed.  Interesting, very interesting.

    Ray

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Hey Ray,

OK, some photos.

First one is 151268 one of the first as it is today in Pensacola.  Obviously has gone throught the conversions.  Might be an HH-1K here.

Next one is also an interesting one as in the VMO-6 bird above.  UH-1E built, with the B rotorhead AND the lefthand Fuel Filler and Roof Pitot.  Now the TAT turret supposedly came out in 1967.  Might date photo a bit.

The next one is interesting also from 1965 at MCAS Santa Ana, CA.  151289 UH-1E with B rotorhead and nose pitot and right fuel filler. 

Then the last one, the very FIRST UH-1E as delivered.  1964.

Hope these help some.  Now Ray.....find the upgrade orders! 

Regards
Steve

Instead of "editing" my post above.........I thought I'd eat a little bit of crow here first. 

I did find an an earlier "block" of bureau numbers.....a photo of one.........that "appeared" again, to be a purpose built B-E WITH single nose mounted Pitot AND right side fuel filler........dated 1965.

So now I'll be looking for just what made up the upgrade to 540 "E".  I have a photo of one from the same block, with roof pitot and left filler along with the 540. 

Why do a partial upgrade to tank and pitot and not the 540?  Then 540 later?  Thats whats bothering me.

The Army is Soooooo much easier.

Regards
Steve

Steve,

  I understand the Marines do everything differently, but prior to those photos I had NEVER seen a US short cabin Huey with left handed Fuel filler, nose mounted pitot, AND a B model rotor head.  In fact, the presence of a left handed fuel filler is generally given as the "sure fire" way to tell a 540 bird from all others (I have done so on many occasions).  Now it ain't.  Thus another case of Never say Never.  Anyway, I thought it was interesting.  Whether you call it a B-E a C-E or a B/C-E is kinda symantics I guess.  I would love to see more photos of this configuration, however.  

   Ray 

PS: It's rather frustrating that the tail isn't visible as I'd be interested to know if this bird had the cambered wide chord tail found on 540 birds.  It does have the UH-1B style symmetrical sync elevators though.

Hey Ray........

I think your really getting wrapped around the axel on this issue.  151864 in VMO-6 colors does date her prior to 1967 (I think that was the date) of VMO-6 giving up all the Hueys to new Huey squadrons in country --167 and 367).  864 is a B-E in that photo (my catagorization).  You have made some alegations on the Pitot and fuel tankage. 

1.  It "appears" to me that 864 was a purpose built "E" bird with fuel tankage and pitots as shown.  I "think" your interchanging Army birds here. 

2.  I have photos of 1518XX aircraft above and below 864 and all have fuselage configuration the same as that pictured, fuel and pitot.  The one difference is that they had the 540 conversion.

3.  The question then becomes:  What was done in the conversions?  The 864 photo kinda tells me it didn't include changing the fuel tankage nor the pitot system which makes that a valuable photo indeed.

Regards
Steve

At first look, both photos appear to show an early Echo based on the B airframe.  However, this particular bird has 204 rotorhead AND roof mounted pitot AND left handed fuel filler.  We have been talking about "540 B's" but this is a "204 C" (just made that up please don't take it literally).   Here's what I'm curious about.  Were there dual hydraulics and servos in this bird?  After all, wasn't the fuel filler moved to the left side to make room for the redundant systems in the Charlie model as well as the increased fuel capacity?  I think I mentioned a RAN UH-1B with a left handed fuel filler earlier in this thread. i've seen two of those.  However, both had nose mounted pitots. I know I'm rivet counting here, but to me these photos were very unexpected. I expected to one day see a B fuselage with a 540 head, but not the other way around.  Anyone else have pics of this configuration?  Inquiring minds want to know!

    Ray

It's just an early "B-E" before upgraded to "540 E".  Photos of earlier and later Bureau number "E"s all are in 540 garb. 

Give us a hint there Ray.........only thing that caught my eye was the odd blade grip angles on the first one. (but extreme stab bar/cyclic/coll posits could account for that)

Regards
Steve

Grandad,

  Now check the fuselages!

      Ray