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UH-1E from an F + B or C?

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  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:01 PM

From the look of the yellow and red markings, I believe this is an early C model before they started putting on the particle seperators.

 

Wanted to add a note that a few B model gunships survived into the 70's and early 80's, We had a few in my Guard unit during that time period. Can't remember in some had the old M-22 (SS-11 missile system) installed

  • Member since
    April 2009
Posted by Huey367 on Thursday, April 23, 2009 4:22 PM
A note about the Marines having B and C model Hueys. VMO-1 at New River had repainted Army B and C before the E models began to arrive in 1967. This was due to the first production models going to USMC units (VMO 3 and 6) in Vietnam. As we received the E's, we sent the B and C's back to the Army. The Marine Corps E model Hueys were a similar to the B and C's in shape, but a different animal. They were made to Navy / Marine Corps standards and none of the Marine or Navy Hueys were converted B or C models. Also, the USMC UH-1E had 2 staggered horizontal M-60 machine guns with a 19 shot 2.75 rocket pod of the ordance racks on either side of the Huey. We didn't like the 7 shot. The door gunners had M60s with various and homemade mounts.
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:31 PM

Mel,

   Here's the info I have from the VHPA Gold Book with all the 174th helos listed. On this list the only UH-1B flew only 10 hours in the unit.  All the 65 birds are listed as C's. Talk about confusing. 

   I looked at the photos and those birds and they look like C's to me.  I even see the weapons brace on the M-3 armed bird.  The bell mouth intake is the only thing that might have made someone think those were B's.  At the end of this post is a pic of one of the 2/20th ARA birds you were talking about from 65.  You can see all the UH-1C features including the left handed fuel filler, but it has the bell mouth intake and nose mounted FM antennas as well.

  I'm wondering if something like we have been talking about with the Echo didn't happen with the first C's. You know, they were on the line to be built as B's but ended up coming out as C's.  kinda like the second production batch of Echos switched from B-based frames to C-based frames in the middle of the production run.  Just a guess.  Anyway, the plot thickens.

    Ray

Information on helicopter in 174 AHC

174 AHC

(UIC Code = WC42AA)




Begin Finish Total
Purch. in in Hours
Tail Date Unit Begin Unit Finish in
Model Number MMYY YYMM Hours YYMM Hours Unit
------ -------- ---- ---- ----- ---- ----- -----
UH-1D 63-12983 1164 6708 1193 6801 1754 561
UH-1D 64-13555 0265 6708 1508 6709 1740 232
UH-1D 64-13822 1065 6707 1677 6708 1875 198
UH-1D 64-13870 1165 6610 372 6704 970 598
UH-1D 64-13885 1165 6709 1605 6712 2041 436
UH-1C 64-14109 0865 6812 663 6907 1102 439
UH-1M 64-14140 1065 7009 1428 7112 2239 811
UH-1C 64-14157 1165 6805 812 7002 1815 1003
UH-1C 64-14162 1165 6705 567 6705 599 32
UH-1C 64-14170 1165 6909 2034 7103 3072 1038
UH-1C 65-09423 0166 6610 237 6705 470 233
UH-1C 65-09424 0166 6610 304 6705 533 229
UH-1C 65-09425 0166 6610 239 6702 348 109
UH-1C 65-09426 0166 6610 173 6801 927 754
UH-1C 65-09428 0166 6610 194 6801 616 422
UH-1C 65-09429 0166 6610 211 6804 941 730
UH-1C 65-09430 0166 6610 212 6705 518 306
UH-1B 65-09431 0166 6610 84 6610 94 10
UH-1C 65-09432 0166 6610 229 6705 397 168
UH-1C 65-09470 0266 7101 2202 7112 2605 403
UH-1C 65-09484 0366 6703 393 6705 572 179
UH-1C 65-09504 0366 6808 907 6808 908 1
UH-1C 65-09507 0466 7008 2465 7102 2987 522
UH-1M 65-09540 0566 7008 1192 7112 1976 784
UH-1C 65-09555 0566 7005 1708 7011 2030 322
UH-1C 65-09557 0566 6706 462 6710 706 244
UH-1D 65-09605 0166 6610 186 6612 334 148
UH-1D 65-09619 0166 6610 215 6610 309 94
UH-1D 65-09621 0166 6610 402 6802 1945 1543
UH-1D 65-09638 0166 6610 518 6705 1116 598
UH-1D 65-09639 0166 6610 478 6802 2124 1646
UH-1D 65-09640 0166 6610 333 6802 1941 1608
UH-1D 65-09641 0166 6610 402 6804 2289 1887
UH-1D 65-09642 0166 6610 366 6807 1866 1500
UH-1D 65-09643 0166 6610 386 6705 987 601
UH-1D 65-09644 0166 6610 412 6712 1766 1354
UH-1D 65-09646 0166 6610 372 6804 2092 1720
UH-1D 65-09647 0166 6610 299 6707 1103 804
UH-1D 65-09648 0166 6610 478 6801 2088 1610
UH-1H 65-09679 0266 7105 3669 7112 4161 492
UH-1D 65-09906 0566 6610 80 6807 1927 1847
UH-1D 65-09910 0566 6708 527 6806 1469 942
UH-1D 65-09911 0666 6610 140 6804 2049 1909
UH-1D 65-09933 0666 6610 128 6611 128 0
UH-1D 65-09938 0666 6610 119 6702 607 488
UH-1D 65-09939 0666 6610 90 6804 1201 1111
UH-1D 65-09946 0666 6610 52 6709 1167 1115
UH-1D 65-09952 0666 6610 82 6801 1759 1677
UH-1H 65-10020 0766 6812 1652 6902 1893 241
UH-1D 65-12863 0966 6611 0 6712 1472 1472
UH-1D 65-12872 0966 6703 97 6805 1621 1524
UH-1D 65-12874 0966 6703 256 6703 352 96
UH-1C 66-00590 0966 6811 1280 7004 2314 1034
UH-1C 66-00621 1066 7005 1700 7012 2087 387
UH-1C 66-00645 1066 6910 1170 7101 1912 742
UH-1C 66-00646 1066 6809 1111 7006 2429 1318
UH-1C 66-00662 1166 7004 1194 7004 1274 80
UH-1M 66-00722 0167 7103 1305 7112 1596 291
UH-1D 66-00864 1066 6707 690 6805 2014 1324
UH-1D 66-00874 1066 6703 101 6802 1356 1255
UH-1D 66-00888 1166 6710 846 6808 2051 1205
UH-1H 66-00993 1266 6903 1030 6907 1571 541
UH-1D 66-01016 1266 6710 780 6805 1804 1024
UH-1H 66-01022 1266 6905 656 7010 2107 1451
UH-1C 66-15040 0267 6908 1313 7004 1787 474
UH-1C 66-15045 0367 7003 1920 7011 2490 570
UH-1C 66-15060 0367 6806 420 6910 912 492
UH-1M 66-15089 0467 7103 1857 7112 2198 341
UH-1C 66-15092 0467 7102 2073 7103 2098 25
UH-1C 66-15094 0467 7101 1254 7103 1321 67
UH-1C 66-15098 0467 6905 706 7006 1407 701
UH-1C 66-15105 0467 6707 0 6801 536 536
UH-1C 66-15106 0467 6707 0 6801 559 559
UH-1C 66-15137 0567 6707 0 7003 1778 1778
UH-1C 66-15138 0567 6707 0 6804 561 561
UH-1C 66-15161 0667 7012 1494 7102 1612 118
UH-1C 66-15162 0667 6803 153 6904 830 677
UH-1C 66-15165 0667 6712 172 6807 743 571
UH-1C 66-15169 0667 7101 2399 7103 2433 34
UH-1M 66-15190 0767 7103 2198 7112 2639 441
UH-1C 66-15201 0867 6803 168 6804 300 132
UH-1C 66-15221 0967 6806 300 6810 570 270
UH-1C 66-15224 0967 6806 305 6902 906 601
UH-1M 66-15242 1167 7103 1556 7112 1981 425
UH-1D 66-16080 0267 6704 1 6801 957 956
UH-1D 66-16100 0267 6804 791 6806 913 122
UH-1H 66-16155 0367 6902 662 6907 1208 546
UH-1H 66-16186 0367 6908 2132 7112 3345 1213
UH-1D 66-16201 0367 6804 516 6805 660 144
UH-1D 66-16235 0467 6706 0 6707 278 278
UH-1H 66-16406 0567 7107 2168 7111 2496 328
UH-1H 66-16511 0667 6903 1211 6903 1335 124
UH-1H 66-16589 0667 6812 495 6902 712 217
UH-1H 66-16651 0767 7103 2641 7110 3334 693
UH-1H 66-16811 0967 6805 277 6811 806 529
UH-1D 66-16863 0967 6802 13 6805 498 485
UH-1D 66-16867 0967 6802 8 6805 359 351
UH-1H 66-16954 1067 6809 360 6905 1122 762
UH-1H 66-17017 1167 6903 255 6904 516 261
UH-1H 66-17036 1167 6901 99 7011 2355 2256
UH-1H 67-17036 7011 0 7011 0 0
UH-1H 67-17191 0168 7012 2615 7103 3069 454
UH-1D 67-17193 0168 6802 0 6805 534 534
UH-1D 67-17203 0168 6802 0 6802 82 82
UH-1D 67-17209 0168 6802 0 6805 438 438
UH-1D 67-17281 0268 6803 0 6804 112 112
UH-1D 67-17282 0268 6803 0 6804 219 219
UH-1H 67-17359 0368 7008 1734 7102 2341 607
UH-1H 67-17410 0468 6805 2 7103 2334 2332
UH-1H 67-17419 0468 6805 1 6904 1233 1232
UH-1H 67-17421 0468 6805 2 6904 1379 1377
UH-1H 67-17428 0468 6805 0 6903 938 938
UH-1H 67-17430 0468 6805 1 7010 3195 3194
UH-1H 67-17444 0468 6805 1 6808 289 288
UH-1H 67-17445 0468 6806 2 7012 2989 2987
UH-1H 67-17471 0468 6805 0 7104 3368 3368
UH-1H 67-17503 0568 6806 0 7101 2278 2278
UH-1H 67-17512 0568 6806 2 6904 1213 1211
UH-1H 67-17519 0568 6806 2 6901 959 957
UH-1H 67-17521 0568 7105 2739 7111 3278 539
UH-1H 67-17530 0568 6806 2 6808 335 333
UH-1H 67-17540 0568 6806 0 7106 3240 3240
UH-1H 67-17543 0568 6806 2 7011 3091 3089
UH-1H 67-17550 0568 6806 2 6904 1286 1284
UH-1H 67-17566 0668 6807 0 6811 619 619
UH-1H 67-17588 0668 6807 0 7004 2160 2160
UH-1H 67-17718 0868 6809 0 7007 2483 2483
UH-1H 67-17753 0968 6810 0 6905 573 573
UH-1H 68-15215 1268 6901 0 7102 2045 2045
UH-1H 68-15223 1268 6901 0 7104 2833 2833
UH-1H 68-15403 0269 7012 799 7102 856 57
UH-1H 68-15458 0369 7011 1411 7112 2413 1002
UH-1H 68-15463 0369 6904 0 7101 2233 2233
UH-1H 68-15529 0469 6905 0 6905 127 127
UH-1H 68-15531 0469 6905 0 6905 105 105
UH-1H 68-15639 0569 6906 0 7103 2137 2137
UH-1H 68-15644 0569 6906 0 7010 1853 1853
UH-1H 68-15661 0569 6906 0 6910 676 676
UH-1H 68-15671 0569 6906 0 7102 2005 2005
UH-1H 68-15676 0569 6906 0 7112 2763 2763
UH-1H 68-15677 0569 6906 0 7010 1614 1614
UH-1H 68-15680 0569 6906 0 7011 1861 1861
UH-1H 68-16122 0869 7105 1154 7112 1825 671
UH-1H 68-16180 0869 7101 2125 7102 2197 72
UH-1H 68-16225 0969 6910 0 7004 603 603
UH-1H 68-16340 1069 6911 0 7112 1709 1709
UH-1H 68-16573 1269 7105 203 7111 824 621
UH-1H 68-17566 6808 0 6808 0 0
UH-1H 69-15200 0370 7004 2 7007 439 437
UH-1H 69-15284 0470 7005 0 7102 1057 1057
UH-1H 69-15423 0670 7006 0 7112 1650 1650
UH-1H 69-15516 0770 7008 0 7112 1389 1389
UH-1H 69-15533 0770 7102 506 7107 925 419
UH-1H 69-15651 7105 0 7105 0 0
UH-1H 69-15730 1070 7011 0 7112 1211 1211
UH-1H 69-15759 1070 7107 505 7107 579 74
UH-1H 69-15763 1070 7011 0 7111 1197 1197
UH-1H 69-15767 1070 7012 0 7104 515 515
UH-1H 69-15768 1070 7105 433 7111 1180 747
UH-1H 69-15783 1070 7011 0 7102 300 300
UH-1H 69-15953 0171 7102 0 7112 685 685
UH-1H 69-15958 0171 7102 0 7111 715 715
UH-1H 69-16650 0171 7103 0 7111 530 530
UH-1H 69-16667 0171 7103 0 7103 108 108
UH-1H 69-16698 0171 7103 0 7111 725 725
UH-1H 69-16716 0271 7103 0 7106 306 306
UH-1H 70-15711 0371 7105 33 7112 342 309
--------
Total helicopters = 167 Total number of hours = 142370

 

 

 

Photobucket

[img]http://Photobucket" border="0" />[/img]

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:10 PM

Guys,

I was looking for something esle and found this list I didn't know I had.  It's a list of the Helicopters that were assigned to the 174th AHC.  Notice 8 are listed as UH-1B's.  There are pictures on our Web page of a couple of these birds but they are called "C's" and look just like Charlie models except lacking the FOD screens.  It doesn't appear that they have the extended collective levers either.  Confused, heck I stay that way now days!  So they have to be the "infamous" UH-1B-540's".   I talked to a buddy of mine yesterday and he said they had a few too in the 20th ARA. 

Check out the two pictures towards the end of Dick's page.  Hueys "424" and "425"  http://www.174ahc.org/oham-01.htm

 

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Saturday, April 18, 2009 10:29 PM

Ray,

Of course I'm doing it again!  I can't remember last week!  CRS!  Heh, heh! 

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Friday, April 17, 2009 11:04 PM

 Melgyver wrote:
Not my thread!  Aaronw started this, I just contributed to the confusion!  Heh, heh!

  And your doing it again, Mel!   I was referring to the reference Aaron made about my reference to the UH-1C rotorhead thread you started so long ago.  I can't believe you could be confused by such a simple reference to a reference about a reference!

(the above said with a wide grin on my face lest you actually think I'm upset) 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Friday, April 17, 2009 10:51 PM
Not my thread!  Aaronw started this, I just contributed to the confusion!  Heh, heh!

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Friday, April 17, 2009 5:52 PM

Randy,

  This is what I get for not going back and reading old posts.  I was just looking through the thread I posted above on Navy Hueys and I found this reply from Steve Hornberger, who flew UH-1E, UH-1L's, TH-1L's, UH-1N's and who know what else.  Anyway, it speaks to the fate of the UH-1B's that entered Marine service and I thought it deserved being repeated here:

"

Hey Ray,

Yes, I flew the E operationally and the UH-1L/Th-1L and E as an instructor in HT-18. 

There may be semanics here, but the Marines got a load of UH-1B's (20) from the Army in 1966 and 67 to fill a shortfall of ordered UH-1E's.  The B was marginal for the marines due to no rotorbreak which is needed for shipboard use (I forgot to mention the rotorbreak in my above comments).  The loaners were mostly used in the states for training but some got to VN.  Thats why you'll see some of those counterwieghts on Marine birds.  They may be painted Marine green but they were your standard B underneigth.  All the surviving B's were eventually returned to the Army.

From my understanding very few UH-1L's were produced and all went to the HAL squadrons who needed the bigger engine.  There were a few airframe casualties in VN but all the rest went back to the training command to soldier on.  My "numbers" include UH-1Es, UH-1Ls and TH-1Ls.  I know of no HH-1Ks there, but then a K is nothing but an L.  That was a time that the Marines were moving to the UH-1N so they were getting rid of the E.  There was no lack of airframes for HT-18.

The Marines had several HH-1Ks as SAR birds also, but again if you need a K and only T/UH-1Ls are available..voila, you have an HH-1K.  I could be wrong about the K if it included special Electical components for MEDEVAC equipment.

Regards

Steve"

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Friday, April 17, 2009 5:42 PM

 Aaronw wrote:
When you said "beyond the initial rotorhead discussion" I was a bit confused, I thought everything in here was rotorhead discussion. However I see you literally meant discussion about rotorheads. Smile [:)]

Yep, we kinda hijacked Mel's thread and went a little crazy (but crazy in a good way)Big Smile [:D]

   Ray

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Friday, April 17, 2009 4:46 PM
When you said "beyond the initial rotorhead discussion" I was a bit confused, I thought everything in here was rotorhead discussion. However I see you literally meant discussion about rotorheads. Smile [:)]
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Friday, April 17, 2009 1:17 PM

Aaron,

  Yep, basically if you want a accurate E in 1/72 scale add the winch and rotor brake to either the italeri B or C kit with a 540 rotor for the C.  You could also steal a 540 rotor from a 1/72 cobra kit as long as it had the sqare-tipped old style blades and was from a model with 44ft rotors.

   In 1/48, you could either get the UH-1C update set from Cobra Company and do a C-based Echo or just get a UH-1D/H rotor and cut 2 scale feet off each blade and add blade counterweights.  The Huey Hog is basically a B with a 540 rotor.  Hey, you could build the infamous 540 B straight from the box!  The only isssue with making a B-based acho other than the rotor would be the late style particle filter.  All B-based Echos I have seen had the bell mouth intake instead.  You could graft the bell mouth intake from the older Monogram/Fijimi UH-1B kit.  That's really about all those kits are good for anyway.  Oh and whatever you build remove the nose mounted FM antennas from the nose as no Marine Echo I've seen had em.  For a B-based Echo don't forget to leave off the roof mounted pitot and make a nose mounted one as well.

As far as armament, you really need the TK-2 kit used by the Marines to be accurate.  currently, that is unavailable in any scale that I am aware of.  Also, as far as I know no Marine Huey ever carried the M-5 40mm grenade launcher on the nose.  The TAT 101 turret would look cool though, but alas there is no plastic available for this either to my knowledge. If there was any chance that the Marines ever flew with Army weapons, it would be the 20 UH-1B's we've been discussing above.  Never seen a pic, so can't really comment there, but even then they probably had Marine weapons if they were not configured as slicks

UH-1E slicks are perfectly legit for Vietnam as you can clearly see in the book link posted by Supercobra above. 

For UH-1L, TH-1L and HH-1K info go here (read beyond the initial rotorhead discussion):

/forums/785871/ShowPost.aspx

For more on the Echo go here:

/forums/804031/ShowPost.aspx

Hope that helps,

       Ray

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Friday, April 17, 2009 12:44 PM

Also anyone have a good shot of the winch? I have a couple available to me, but not sure if any will work or if I'd need to make something.

I have MM USMC green, would that be the color to use or are the USMC helos OD like the Army ones? 

Oh, and thanks. I did not expect to see so much info, but it is nice to have it.

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Friday, April 17, 2009 12:39 PM

Ok, so if I have read all this right, an E can be made by simply adding a winch and a brake lever to a B or C (as appropriate) with the exception of a few rare cases that combined bits from the B & C?

The same applies to the UH-1L, TH-1L, and HH-1K? 

 rotorwash wrote:

Here's what most Echo's look like.  Note roof mounted pitot, left handed fuel filler, 540 rotor head, Particle separator and rescue hoist.  No armemant installed on this one, but the TK-2 kit was used on most Vietnam UH-1E's:

Photobucket" border="0" />

 

 

If that is the case then, I could do the one in this pic with a UH-1C kit, a winch and the Cobra Company 540 rotor? Would UH-1E "slicks" like the photo be appropriate or were they normally gunships? 

Did the USMC use the nose mounted grenade launcher as is done on the Revell "Huey Hog", I seem to recall that kit has all kinds of inaccuracies for a UH-1E. I'm thinking about grabbing one of the Hobby Boss UH-1 kits for the weapons, just wondering if the GL would be appropriate for the E or if I should save it for a C. Doing the E as a slick would at least eliminate the issue of making a correct weapons mount for it. 

  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by supercobra on Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:47 PM

The brake itself is on the transmission (looks like a disk brake) and you would only see it with the cowl open.  However, the handle and master cylinder is on the cockpit roof:

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:36 PM

Aaron,

  I'm sure Supercobra will be along with a much better photo, but here is a UH-1E with the twin M-60 TAT 101 turret mounted under the nose.  Look directly below the roof mounted pitot tube and on the right side of the roof instrument panel. That handle is for the rotor brake.

    Ray

Photobucket" border="0" />

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:08 PM
Any shots of the rotor brake? Is that something you would notice on a model or is it something you would only see by opening up the cowling?
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:02 PM

What is really interesting reading the section in the Fails book (I gotta get that by the way) is that the UH-1B's entered Marine service in 66-67 due to a shortfall of E's.  I had assumed (incorrectly as it turns out) that any B's would have been given to the Marines BEFORE the E came online.  But it is clear that they were really innadequate for Marine operations for all the reasons we've already discussed in this thread (no rotor brake, etc.).   Is there any evidence that more than the 20 UH-1B's mentioned in that paragraph were ever transferred to the Marines?

    Ray

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:11 PM

Randy,

  Thanks for the ref!  I happily stand corrected.  Now to find a photo of one!

      Ray

  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by supercobra on Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:25 PM
 rotorwash wrote:

As for the Marines recieving Army B models,  I'd love to see the pics or at least the refs.  I can find no documentation of the Marines recieving B models. my guess would be a ref that referred to the first batch of 204 based Echos as "B's" but I'm always open to new info.

   Ray

Marines and Helicopter, by Fails.  Page 110.  I've got other sources but no time to scan them.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ES48urDKXG8C&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=marines++uh-1b&source=bl&ots=LwhK8gJj3H&sig=2ZhfaKzDyl5jLyAihJX78g863EA&hl=en&ei=N6vnSbqTNMaHtgexptWZBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#PPA110,M1

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by supercobra on Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:21 PM
 Melgyver wrote:

Ray,

I edited my last the last two line of my previous post to clear up my my beliefs.  I agree with you, I saw a UH-1E just last month the one belonging to the Collins Foundation and it was a Vietnam combat veteran flown by a Medal of Honor winner.  It had the divot in the roof for the externally mounted rescue hoist and the rotor brake. 

 

Please double check your info on the Collins UH-1E.

The only UH-1E flown by a MOH winner was the one flown by Maj Steve Pless - 154760 - as of last week I saw that aircraft still hanging from the ceiling at the Quantico Museum. 

Edit:  I misread your post.  The Collins one could have been flown by Pless but it was not the one flown during the MOH mission.  Sorry I misunderstood.

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Thursday, April 16, 2009 12:22 AM

Sometimes the only way to be sure is to look at the data plate.

 I would like a 1/48th scale AH-1G

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:30 PM

Mel,

   Well I am a rivet counter and I'd expect the same from you or anyone else here. I hate making mistakes, but if I had a dime for every one I'd made, I'd have my OWN Huey!

   As for an MRC UH-1H, well I have it from a very reliable source that you can expect no new tooled helos from them till the economy turns around.  Maybe a UH-1B kit though as it would just be one small extra sprue of parts.  If I were them, the first thing I'd do is a 1/35th AH-1G.  It'd sell so fast they might run out fo plastic!

    Ray

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:26 PM

Ray,

Thanks!  I know all this is bordering on "rivet" counting but to me it's noticeable details.  I expect you guys to keep me straight when I "waver"! 

I keep hoping MRC/Academy will make us a good 1/35 UH-1D/H one day!

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:15 PM

No worries, Mel.  I hope you are feeling better.  

    Ray 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:09 PM

Ray,

Good catch!  I was doing all of that with a bad head and neck ache today.  I'll edit it! 

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:16 PM

Mel,

  Good stuff as always.  The diagram is actually a B (204) head as you can see from the blade counterweights.  the one on the left side of the digram is cut off mid shaft.  The UH-1H had the 205 head with T-T (Tension-Torsion) straps inside the blade grips that replaced the blade counterweights.  You probably already know that though.   Anyway, nice explanation of the differences as always.

    Ray 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 5:12 PM

Here are some pictures of the UH-1H plyon assy and UH-1C.  The "H" and "B" are pretty much identical.  As you can see the "C" is similar but the attachment points on the swashplate are different as well as shape of rotating ring.  The MRC/Academy UH-1C kit has the "B" swashplate, rotating ring, scissors, and collective levers.     

 

UH-1H Pylon Assy  Notice the trunion type attach points of the front cyclic control tubes, and lower drive link trunions to rotating ring which is curved (half donut shapped).  Also top boot sits directly on top the scissors assy.

UH-1B Pylon Assy  Same as an H but has the counter weights on the blade grips. 

UH-1C Pylon Assy  Notice the rod end type bearing on the cyclic control tubes which attaches to ears on the swashplate, the drive link has a bearing which attaches to the rotating ring which is thicker and has more of a squared off up and lower surface. The scissors are beefy with recesses in arms.  The aft swashpate attachment ear attaches to a drive line type instead of the small control tube on the B and H. The stabilizer dampers are rotated clockwise about 90 degrees from the position on the H.  Spacer on top of scissors assy then has boot attached to it.  I don't have a good shot of extended collective levers but you can see a portion of them in my previous post in picture of the UH-1E.  They attach to forward right edge of transmission instead of lower swashplate support mount.

UH-1C Pylon Assy  The dark "ear" sticking out to the left of the right swashplate cyclic control tube is a bracket for a coil spring that is found on C's, D's and H's. Not sure about the B's but probably so.  You can see it in the top picture vaguely. 

UH-C Pylon Assy The collective levers are missing from this assy.  You can see the forward piviot bracket though on edge of transmission.  If you modify the front ears of the MRC/Academy swashplate to the "ears" it will also help out with locating the cylic control tubes futher aft to a more correct location. 

 

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:59 PM

Mel,

  That is too cool!  I wish i could have seen that bird. Did you take any more photos?  Thanks for posting that one.  I see the rescue hoist housing was removed, but at least the divot is still there.  You happen to know the serial?

    Ray 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:44 PM

Ray,

I edited my last the last two line of my previous post to clear up my my beliefs.  I agree with you, I saw a UH-1E just last month the one belonging to the Collins Foundation and it was a Vietnam combat veteran flown by a Medal of Honor winner.  It had the divot in the roof for the externally mounted rescue hoist and the rotor brake. 

 

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:29 PM

Mel,

  Robert Brackenhoff also mentioned the 540 B's being flown by the 174th, but, like you, I have never seen photo evidence of this. However, there definitely was at least one UH-1B' equipped with the 540 rotor system (and I've heard of at least 6).  Check these two document summaries from the Defense Technical information Center:

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0804242

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0811781

ALL UH-1E's can be distinguished from an Army UH-1B or C (although not from other short bodied Navy Hueys) by the rotor brake and rescue hoist housing (at least on all historical aircraft photos, see Mel's pic below) and divot in the right cabin roof.  I have never seen this not be the case although someone may prove me wrong.  This is based on hours of research into the topic, but then again, I wasn't there either.  As i say, I could be wrong and have been before, but i'm pretty confident here.

    Ray

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