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Armed Escort Tiltrotor

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  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Maryland
Posted by Par429 on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:48 AM
Neat OV-10 pictures. I've always really liked the Bronco gunship. In fact I have a couple of sketches around here of my Citation fuselage with the gun turret in the back!

Phil
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Modeling anything with "MARINES" on the side.
Posted by AH1Wsnake on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:21 AM
Very cool picture of the OV-10 with the 20mm turret in the belly. I've never seen that before.

 

"There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and those who have met them in battle. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion."
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Monday, August 15, 2005 10:27 PM
More reference photo - maybe these will help give people ideas:

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Monday, August 15, 2005 4:43 PM
In-flight refueling is already a requirement of the V-22, as is FLIR and countermeasure dispensers. Those are already on there as tactics and doctrine dictate them as a necessity. There was talk of a chin mounted gun under the nose of the V-22, but that was deemed as something that could wait until later - or something along those lines. In other words, no one's holding their breath over that happening.

You can stick a .50 cal on the tail ramp, just like on an MH-53M, but as with the CH-46, that ramp is the primary means of getting a bunch of dudes on or off in a hurry. A gun and gunner gets in the way of that, especially if litters are involved. And a ramp gunner isn't the same as a side gunner. The problem with side guns on the Osprey is the same as a Black Hawk with the HSSS system installed - you limit the gun azimuth. With the Black Hawk it's a couple of drop tanks (you can lose those), but with the Osprey, the problem is the engine nacelle. Can't dump those.

Stingers? Never heard of that. Is it safe to say that the biggest threat to an Osprey will come from below? I know that this is why all USAF and USMC aircraft these days are shades of gray - to hide against the sky from ground fire, not to hide them against the ground from enemy fighters.

Screaminhelo -
could you shoot me an e-mail please?
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Whereever the AF has sent me
Posted by ssvoashadow on Monday, August 15, 2005 3:44 PM
Genmtleman

First there is already a V22 platform in the works for spec ops and assualt work if i rember right it has the inflight refule probe, FLIR chaff flares and several armaments i jsut fo rth elife of me can not remember which chin mounted MG liek the AH-1/64 and i belive door mounted gatlin cannons and a ramp mounted 50 cali belive talk of a stinger like pod simular to whats on 64's for short range air defensequite often though the idea is to avoid a fight or let the USAF flyboys have fun while the v22 slipps in during the other action granted i can not give the sources at this time but as a USAF member that has watched the developpment of the Osprey and Raptor from the beging given some time i will find the right reference material for you
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Monday, August 15, 2005 1:57 PM
I don't think that the GAU-8 could be safely fired from a hover. I'm thinking that this thing will have to have some serious power behind those props to keep flying when it is fired. I am leaning more to the CAS side of things anyway, escort will still be a secondary mission. I really just wanted to put alot of punch in it and have fun developing my scratchbuilding skills.

Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Monday, August 15, 2005 10:32 AM
Can a GAU-8 even be safely fired from a hover position?
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Monday, August 15, 2005 10:19 AM
I LOVE that gun! The GAU-8 will be for any big stuff. I'm thinking Helfires/TOWs on the wings and 5.5' rockets in swing out bays ( I have to do something with those engine nacels ). I also have some 50 cals from a P-61 that could go on the fuselage.This may end up as an AF bird, or even Army (sneak it in as an armed rotory wing).

I finally got Photobucket working, so maybe I can show something when I figure out how to hang the wings on this thing.

Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Halfway back to where I started
Posted by ckfredrickson on Monday, August 15, 2005 9:49 AM
It sounds a bit under-armed, but I don't know where or how to add more weapons using what you've got. It looks good.
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Monday, August 15, 2005 9:49 AM

Four points - yup, that ought to work. Nice researching on that Phil!

Mac
- Sounds like you've got some real Dr. Moreau action planned with your A-10. Evil [}:)] What have you got in mind?
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Monday, August 15, 2005 9:04 AM
PARTS EVERYWHERE!!!!

The surgery has started in earnest. Relocating A-10 wings has turned out to be more of a job than I anticipated, but it will provide at least two wing hardpoints. I still need to grab a -64 for the cockpit and some weapons. This is really going to be a big, pie-in-the-sky beasty.

Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, August 15, 2005 8:38 AM
Coming along great
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Maryland
Posted by Par429 on Monday, August 15, 2005 8:36 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Trigger74

One question I have, based off of the landing gear. I was surprised you went with a bicycle configuration on an airframe such as this that has two heavy objects on either extreme of the wing. What about crosswind landings, pitching/rolling decks, etc.?


It will eventually have outriggers on the nacelles, so it should be plenty stable. Like this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/eagle-eye.htm

Thanks for the comments guys. BTW LJ, I really like your MARPAT A-10! Excellent job! I'm still pondering the eventual finish for this, but that's tempting.

Phil
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Green Lantern Corps HQ on Oa
Posted by LemonJello on Monday, August 15, 2005 8:13 AM
Lookin real good, Phil! I like the look of the Citation fuselage. I can only imagine the amount of putty that had to be used to blend all of that together. Great progress so far...I know what you mean about spending time just staring at the pieces, but sometimes that's the best way to plot it all out in your mind before you start in on the plastic. Can't wait to see more!

A day in the Corps is like a day on the farm; every meal is a banquet, every paycheck a fortune, every formation a parade... The Marine Corps is a department of the Navy? Yeah...The Men's Department.
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Monday, August 15, 2005 7:15 AM
Build's looking pretty sharp Phil. I like how you were able to get four hellfire underneath. I forgot your HH-60H from a short while back so I'm looking forward to seeing this new build. Thanks for showing the two side-by-side for scale.

One question I have, based off of the landing gear. I was surprised you went with a bicycle configuration on an airframe such as this that has two heavy objects on either extreme of the wing. What about crosswind landings, pitching/rolling decks, etc.?
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Maryland
Posted by Par429 on Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:25 PM
Well, here are some progress pics. Progress has been a little slow, since I spent plenty of time staring at the parts to figure out how to do this. Tricky to get weapons and landing gear on this configuration. Plus the Citation fuselage needed plenty of bodywork to get rid of the doors and windows. I thought the design had a sleek "hot rod" look to it, so I decided to try to preserve that look. I decided against any sponsons other than modifying the Citation wing roots to provide a place to hang the weapons. I also decided on a Harrier type landing gear. It's tall enough to put a 4 rack of Hellfires or a rocket pod on the mini-sponsons, and there's room for a centerline pylon. This type of landing gear would be low drag, nice and stable, but it would prevent wing-folding. But if the blades all fold inward, it would be about the same size as a Harrier. I haven't worked on the outriggers yet. Today I started on the nose by adding a turret from a Commanche. (I just couldn't bring myself to rob parts from the only Whiskey Cobra I have!) I plan to do some reshaping on the nose and add a FLIR ball above the gun. So far so good, here are the pics. I added a pic with my HH-60H to provide a feel for size.





Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Phil


  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:05 AM
True - details will change, but I thought they'd be a good indicator of things to come. They've given me ideas that I'd like to run by you later on if you don't mind.

Ah, okay... I think I passed under a different bridge (we were coming up from Charleston, SC), but I was half-right... I'd recognize Tidewater country any day!
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Maryland
Posted by Par429 on Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:20 AM
Great pictures, but as others have noted, they are still developmental test aircraft, not combat aircraft. But I think the designs are pretty much stable at this point, although there will certainly be detail changes.

Trigger, the bottom picture is lovely Solomon's Island Maryland. That is the Thomas Johnson Bridge over the Patuxent River, and you can see the Chesapeake Bay in the background. I drive over the bridge every day on my way to work. Patuxent River NAS is on the other side of the river just out of the picture to the right.

Phil
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:42 PM
Hey, a road trip sounds good! I gotta go to BNOC though Sad [:(], after that it will be just about time for the new tricycle motor to get here.

Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:38 PM
Rather wait and get the production version, but I want 1/48th(either update or new kit)
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 6:06 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by LemonJello

Thanks for the pics, Trigger. Now I know what I'll be doing with that other 1/35 AH-1W...I'll be waiting for Cobra Company to put out an update set to make a -1Z!


Propeller [8-] YES!!!! Now I have an excuse to pick up a second Whiskey! May be a while before Chris gets around too though, it considering they keep changing the configuration.
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Green Lantern Corps HQ on Oa
Posted by LemonJello on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:42 PM
Thanks for the pics, Trigger. Now I know what I'll be doing with that other 1/35 AH-1W...I'll be waiting for Cobra Company to put out an update set to make a -1Z!
A day in the Corps is like a day on the farm; every meal is a banquet, every paycheck a fortune, every formation a parade... The Marine Corps is a department of the Navy? Yeah...The Men's Department.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:57 PM
They look mean
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:12 AM
Albert Moore had a link posted on ARC to some AH-1Z pix and I thought some of these would be useful for those building an E.T. and the provide some good examples of the warts, bumps and whatever that will be found on tomorrow's helicopters. They're big images, so I'll only post two here:




A lot more pix are at http://pma276public.navair.navy.mil/pma276public/multimedia.asp

Para429 - Does that second pic look like it's from the Norfolk area? I'm not sure, but think I sailed under that bridge a few years ago on my way up to Annapolis.
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 10:32 AM
Thanks for the woodland colors LJ, I think I'll go with those. I don't see enough green machines these days. Everything's either gray or tan.
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Green Lantern Corps HQ on Oa
Posted by LemonJello on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 10:04 AM
QUOTE: Do you know what FS numbers or what paints are close to the colors used in the digital cammies?

Desert or Woodland? I'll have to see what I can come up with as far as FS numbers. For my MARPAT, I held my bottles up to one of my covers and eyeballed it. I think I used MM acrylic USMC Green, Tamiya acrylic Khaki, Flat Black and a little Khaki Drab. Let me double check that, though. There needs to be a light brown in there that I missed.

QUOTE: D'oh! Almost forgot - we're going to swing by NC on the way up there to pick up LJ!

Just give me enough time to get my leave papers in! Wouldn't want to be UA.
A day in the Corps is like a day on the farm; every meal is a banquet, every paycheck a fortune, every formation a parade... The Marine Corps is a department of the Navy? Yeah...The Men's Department.
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Monday, August 8, 2005 10:04 PM
D'oh! Almost forgot - we're going to swing by NC on the way up there to pick up LJ!
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Maryland
Posted by Par429 on Monday, August 8, 2005 7:04 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Trigger74

Okay, there's only one way to resolve this. Field trip! Phil - Mac and I will hop a Citation from here and pick you up so y'all can measure how much room the GIBs will have to work with; all before having to divert to Atlantic City due to a "technical" malfunction


Excellent! I love a field trip! Count me in!

Phil
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Monday, August 8, 2005 4:19 PM
Hmmm....I wonder how my design would look finished like ACUs???

Scratch that. No offense to the Army boys out there, but if this thing's supposed to escort an V-22, then it'll be a Marine platform. (Besides, I'm trying to talk Cobrahistorian into finishing his A-10D in ACU!)

LemonJello
- I'm also thinking of finishing my Escort Tiltrotor (E.T.?!?) in a MARPAT finish. Don't know if it'll be desert or woodland yet, or if it'll be like that Hornet finished in shades of gray. If it's gray - well, those colors will be easy to determine... Do you know what FS numbers or what paints are close to the colors used in the digital cammies?

Para429
- If I don't use the OV-10 kit's sponsons, do you want them?
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Monday, August 8, 2005 3:41 PM
Okay, there's only one way to resolve this. Field trip! Phil - Mac and I will hop a Citation from here and pick you up so y'all can measure how much room the GIBs will have to work with; all before having to divert to Atlantic City due to a "technical" malfunction
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
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