Vietnam Huey

yes, I am using the italeri kits. The only one I've completed is the B model since I built it straight out the box. with the C I stopped before putting on the cabin roof since I decided I was going to add stuff to the interior and a 40mm greanade launcer on the nose. Then I found a decal set with markings for a certain C model I saw in several pictures in some books I have. I saw someone post a picture of that one in one of these forums but they said it was a B. Now, the pictures I have, the decal sheet, and everything I read from you guys, tells me C model. I bought the CMK UH-1B exterior kit, which included the canister and feedtray for the 40mm that sits in the cabin. Now, I want to build folded up seats for the back, add a crew and some other stuff to the back. I also got the CMK Vietnam UH-1 crew. 2 pilots that don't fit on any UH-1 seat that I have, be it B, C, or D and only 1 gunner. What am I supposed to do? The exterior kit also has the stuff to set up the helicopter with open engine and nose compartments (I'll leave that for a different model.)

I'm pretty sure the rotors on all of these turn counter-clockwise. I'll check them when I get home today, though. that would really tick me off.

Well, thanks for all the help so far.

Kris,

  The only difference between the D and H models is the engine (T53 L11 in D and T 53 L13 in H) and the location of the pitot tube (nose mounted on a D model and roof mounted on a H).  Most D models were upgraded to the H standard later on, but the pitot tube should still be on the nose of most birds that were originally D's.  I assume you are building the Italery kits of the B, C , and F models.  ALL of the rotors are way too small and they ALL rotate the wrong way (Italian built Hueys have rotors that rotate clockwise, Us Hueys rotate counterclockwise) -having built one of these now I know this is incorrect, Italeri 1/72 rotors rotate caunterclockwise, it's their 1/48 stuff that is wrong.  To my knowledge there is NO 1/72 scale Charlie model that can be built accurately.  The main problem being that the Italeri C model kit has the same undersized rotors as the B and F kits.  Cobra Company did a replacement rotor, if you can find it.  The Charlie model had a much wider chord rotor (27 vs 21 inches) compared to the Bravo.  Also, the C model used the 540 rotor system and the kit comes with the 204 rotor the is significantly different.  The charlie model also has the fuel filler on the left side and the Italeri C model kit has the same fuselage as thier B model.  If you want to build and accurate B model, use the rotors from the ESCI/AMT/Italeri UH-1D kit.  They will be a little too long, but that is easily corrected.  Don't forget to put blade counterweights on the rotorhead as the D/H models lacked these.  The M model is EXACTLY the same as the Charlie except for the T53 L13 engine upgrade.  As for the Echo, the earliest Echos were built after the Bravo model and looked identical externally except for the rescue hoist.  Most Echos, however, were built after the Charlie model and in 1/72 scale you will have the same problem as i mentioned above.  THe main difference between Echos and Army Bs and C's was that the frame was aluminum, there was a rotor brake installed, the avionics were different, and the rescue hoist was added.  Also, the armament package was significantly different.  The Army used the M156 universal mounting system and the Marines used the TK-2 mounting system (use the search function in this forum for more info on each one).  That should be enough info to get you started. Most if not all of this stuff can be found in various Huey threads in the forum.  More on the F/P model later when I get home and can post pics of it.  Hope that helps.

     Ray
 

Isn't there a difference in airframe between the D and H? I heard the nose was shortened on the H.

I'm building up a few UH-1s myself. But I work 1/72 scale. I started with B and C. I have a few D'd set up for build. I'm getting parts together to make an E and maybe M model. I started a UH-1F but I'm researching the roof antennae set up and I'll probably make second one to make a P model. Maybe you guys can help. I know the P model had the 2 UHF one behind the other, but this F model from Italeri uses the same cabin roof as the B and C, which have that hump for antenna behind the UHF. Here is the question- is that antenna "hump" supposed to be on the F and P or is it flat? I figured that on the P it would not be there since the secound UHF is in that spot, but i can't find any picture with an angle on the roof. Also, the kit has a roof mounted pitot instead of the single nose mounted pitot. WTF! I was just going to build it until I stumbled onto some pictures of the P model in some Vietnam books I have. One other thing, i was going to modify the rescue hoist that comes with the D model to make the E model. Good idea? or waste of time?

Can anyone help?

Kris

('98-'03 UH-60 Chickenhawk CE)

grandadjohn wrote:

Grimmo wrote: Thanks for that. So with the engine upgrade, were any engine acess panels changed? Different shape? I am going to try and model a 9 SQN Bushranger, so it should be fun! Engine upgrade required no external changes

Thanks mate. i picked up the Academy UH-1C Frog so i can pinch the weapons from it to go on the Bushranger.

LOL good find Ray .

Its funny how you find the answers to questions by accident at times, i was listening to an interview with a crew chief the other night, who said that when he first started he had no idea what the hell he was doing, he was asked to do the pre flight checks and tried to look like he knew what he was doing lol, there were no tool boxes or manuals on the ships as they either get pinched by other crews or are kept by the maintenance guys when a new huey first arrives. But one of the first things he was told by the pilots was to hunt for some OD helicopter paint ASAP to cover his white helmet. 

Thanks for posting that Picture of the electronics bay.

Andy.

PS if you get chance to post pictures of the seminar kit parts that would be great.

90 MPH tape fixes EVERYTHING in the Army!

David 

Ok, let's say you had a white helmet, but you wanted a OD helmet, and there was no paint around. What do you do?  Why OD duct tape, of course!

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This is a 118th co-pilot from 1965.

  Ray
 

Andy

re "Just out of curiousity, was there ever a time going into an LZ or something, when you looked around at the other guys and thought " was it realy a good idea to paint my helmet" ?

Most of the grunts wrote or drew on their fabric helmet covers with a pen or marker and I guess it was 'subdued' being black or blue - you'd have to be close up to see it.  My helmet didn't become a magnet - nothing ever came close enough to make me want to paint it out.  The more than occassional smiles from them made it worth keeping.

clear right

Howie

Grimmo wrote:

Thanks for that. So with the engine upgrade, were any engine acess panels changed? Different shape? I am going to try and model a 9 SQN Bushranger, so it should be fun!

Engine upgrade required no external changes

Geordie,

I'll pile on with the compliments too - great looking model!  Sorry about the travel damage...

for those of you adding 'clutter' - don't forget tie-down belts to hold the loose stuff to the floor.  We had, behind the center console, a large toolbox and a black plastic jerry can of water.  You might have a carton of C Rations and/or MREs stuffed under the gunner, CE or passengers' seats.  As the door gunner, my M-16 would be wedged vertically between my seat and the back wall (ditto for the CE's M-16), smoke grenades would hang on the end posts that held up the back seats (and would have been used for medevac stretchers).  There's not really much else that would be back there. 

clear right

Howie 

Andy,

 Yes, the Seminar kit comes with radio compartment details  - it's about the only good part of the kit and the only parts I used.  I used the front part of the frame and added my own horizontal and vertical dividing walls from plastic card.  I also used most of the radios provided in the kit.  I used photos in the Squadron books (UH1 in Action and the Gunships Walkaround) as reference and also some photos I took of a Huey which sits in the Philippine Military Academy (I covertly lifted the radio compartment hatch and took some photos when nobody was looking!).  I've attached a photo below.

 I'm looking forward to Chief Snake producing the huey clutter - I think it will make a great addition to huey builds.

Good luck with your huey build - looking forward to seeing it..............

 Cheers

 Simon

Andy,

  TheSeminar kit comes with parts to make the electronics bay in the nose.  I have no idea how accurate the parts are, but here is what the electrnics bay should look like:

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This is the "229th" H model that I sent you pics of earlier.  They pilots at the reunion agreed that it looks just like the configuration did back when they were in Vietnam.  I can post pics of the Seminar parts when I get back home if you want.

   Ray
 

Geordie,

Thanks for posting the picture, i have a couple of MRC 1C's in my stash and im gona go with the "Frog" minigun version first. I decided a while back that i wanted empty rocket pods, so i got hold of some tubing ready for scratch build, but wasnt quite sure how to go about getting the exhaust stain look, (my quick fix idea about putting a lighter to the brass tubes failed miserably lol) so a pot of dark copper and smoke is next on the list now .

I keep hearing good and bad things about the Seminar UH-1B, I dont know if i read your post right but does the seminar kit come with bits for an open nose section? 

As for clutter for the rear compartment, i saw somewhere that Chris at Cobra Company is bringing out some "clutter" sets soon, with rags and cans and stuff for hueys, i cant remember off-hand where i saw the post but hopefully if he sees this, he can pop some details in here.

Anyway thanks again for the pictures, its a real treat to see another great huey build.

Andy

Andy/Rich - thanks for teh comments.

 I used all three of the Eduard PE sets (internal/external/weapons) and also some scratchbuilding for the engine bay and part of the nose radio compartment.  I used the radios from the Seminar 1/35 UH-1C kit (about the only pieces I used from this kit).

The rockets pods were painted using Tamiya dark copper and then I used Tamiya smoke to replicate exhaust staining to the rear of the pods.  The rear seat was scratchbuilt, the frame being made from plastic rod and tissue applied for the fabric.

I still have a few things to finish - the cover over the tail rotor drive shaft and adding some clutter in the rear compartment.  Unfortunately a lot of parts were broken off in a recent move from the UK to the US so I have been recently sticking all the bits on again.

 I've attached another photo of the rocket pods as requested (I still need to reattach a cable following the damage caused by my move).

 Finally - a photo of the real Ace of Spades:

Melgyver wrote:

Andy, Thanks for the "plug" for my two threads on the Huey Rotor Heads.  Yes indeed there is still a lot on interest in the "old" Huey!  Best darn chopper I've ever crewed and got "stick" time in!

Have to agree with Mel, best chopper ever made, I crewed many a year in them

Snake36Bravo wrote:

The D model was created with a larger cargo capacity in mind and had twice the seating capacity of the B and C model, in terms of medical litters it could carry, or troops, or as a "Log bird" carrying supplies. The H model designator was given to indicate a D model that had the power plant upgrade which was necessary due to inadequate power in high temperatures (something that still plaques helicopters today). The H model Huey has a 1400 HP Lycoming T-53-L-13 powerplant. Another difference in the D and H model is the placement of a pitot tube and blade antenna on the cabin roof.

Most D models were brought up to H standards by upgrading the engine, pitot tube still remained on the nose. The only way to check would be to look at the data plate

Howie,

Thanks for the info, As far as white medevac helmets go, some of the early medevac hueys were white, so it kinda shows how much thought was put in. But like you say, the Geneva convention probably had alot to do with that. I suppose, looking at it from the side of anyone that doesnt follow the convention, the sight of big red cross on an enemy helicopter means little more than a great target to aim for as does a white helmet.

Just out of curiousity, was there ever a time going into an LZ or something, when you looked around at the other guys and thought " was it realy a good idea to paint my helmet" ?

As for the Panda kit, i think its still the same DML helo crew. After lots of failed attempts and(nervous twitch inducing) last minute bids, i managed to get hold of a few sets of the figures. They are good but then we dont have alot of helo crews to choose from! I think the option for two mounted M60s seems like a fair and obvious inclusion for the kit (but then you wouldnt have to buy two kits, would you! $$$ £££).

Like you say, it would be nice to have something new. Luckily i managed to get hold of some limited edition heads, for the DML crew, made over here in the UK. So i have the option of visor up or down now.

Ray's made a thread with pictures of all the bits in the Panda kit. its on the first page i think. il grab the link and post it here next time im on

Andy 

Geordie,

Wow! Fantastic UH-1C, Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Amazing amount of detail, love the work on the nose section and the inside of the doors. The crew compartment looks awsome! I think its the only MRC UH-1C i have seen with the miniguns mounted.

Did you use the eduard sets for the seat belts, wind shields and ammo chutes? In the first picture the burnt color variation on the back of the rocket pods looks great. What paint did you use and could you post a close up pic of the pods?  

You can see just how much work has gone into that build. Fantastic 174th AHC Shark

Thanks again for posting the pics.

Andy

The D model was created with a larger cargo capacity in mind and had twice the seating capacity of the B and C model, in terms of medical litters it could carry, or troops, or as a "Log bird" carrying supplies.

The H model designator was given to indicate a D model that had the power plant upgrade which was necessary due to inadequate power in high temperatures (something that still plaques helicopters today). The H model Huey has a 1400 HP Lycoming T-53-L-13 powerplant. Another difference in the D and H model is the placement of a pitot tube and blade antenna on the cabin roof.

Geordie,

WOW. Great build there. Is this ship part of the "Toon Army"???

What after market stuff , if any, did you use or was alot scratch built. I love the way you've done the rear bench seats and belts. Very realistic. Very nice subtle weathering and shading as well. Thanks for sharing with us all.

Cheers,

Rich

Just found this thread after searching for something related.

 I am a big helo modeller with specific vietnam era interest.  I've just finished my Academy UH-1C and thought the group would like to see it.  Thanks to the 174th AHC website (including Mel who I see is listed in the post) for providing me with a lot of info on 'Ace of Spades'.

Thanks for the great post.

 Simon

Andy

thanks for putting all that together to make it easier for us to find a lot of those Huey posts.  That's the first time I saw Gino's Medevac - fantastic job!  Mel, nice detail photos and yep, that Revell model is a 'tad' better than what Revell gives you!!

Andy wrote: "Ive also found it interesting that for some reason alot of Medevac crews along with Marine and Navy Crews were still using the white helmets long after the Army were using olive drab! does anyone know why???"

To reply to Andy and add to what Snake36Bravo has already said, I don't know but we used to ‘joke' that the Marines got everyone's leftovers, and were the last to get the latest developments.  I wouldn't be surprised if that's why they had white helmets for the longest time.  I don't know why the Navy or Medevacs would, aside from Medevacs thinking the enemy might observe Geneva Conv. and not shoot at medics - yeah, right.  And USN was one step above the USMC in some supply chains...  I was a modeler before going to Nam so I painted my personal insignia on my OD helmet and nobody bothered me about it.  They must have figured ‘if he's stupid enough to draw attention to his head, they won't shoot at us!'

BTW speaking of stupid, we didn't have/use Monkey harnesses/belts either so you'd be correct not securing your gunner or CE.

Got a question:  is the new Dragon Huey the Panda kit, with the previous DML crew figures?  If so, I'm not upset about it, but a little disappointed that they didn't go all out for a new tooling, new set the bar, state of the art, definitive UH-1D model...

Lastly, this post:  anybody going to the IPMS Nat's in Anaheim?  Be nice to see some of these Hueys live, in person!  Not to mention you modelers!

Actually, THIS is last:  Clear right,

Howie

Andy,

Thanks for the "plug" for my two threads on the Huey Rotor Heads.  Yes indeed there is still a lot on interest in the "old" Huey!  Best darn chopper I've ever crewed and got "stick" time in! 

I spoke with my father yesterday who flew two tours. It was interesting because he mentioned the 'common sense' approach early on was actually hard learned. Things like arming the helicopters developed...because no one seemed to worry about the fact that people would be shooting at them when they came in to drop off troops. He also mentioned the running deployment of troops was so that the Huey never entered 'Ground Effect' and they could unass the area quick. Also, in Vietnam the underpowered early models had a tendency to experience 'Density Air' where it took a while, especially under load, to get enough power to leave 'ground effect' and take off. That is why you sometimes see Hueys looking like they are bunny hopping on take off or dragging their noses. (The low raked skids were done away with because of this) In his words, 'Flying out of Pleiku, An Khe and Dak To is like flying out of Denver, CO.'

He was there when CAV was still 11th Air Assault. He spoke of the fact that a lot of armament on Huey's was thought up by creative CE "Crew Chiefs" and pilots. Early on he had a Thompson that he knocked the stock off to use inside the aircraft. Some guys carried M1 carbines. He also spoke of the OH13, the early observation helicopter, and how some enterprising soul who was tired of being shot out took two Browning .30 cal machine guns and fixed them to the skids with Radiator clamps and rigged them up to be fired from the cockpit. This started many things rolling. The free hanging 60s were replaced when someone welded up the pintle mount system which was later adopted as the XM23 door gun.

I will ask him about the prolonged use of high visibility helmets in Medevacs units. He flew Medevac missions into Pleiku and I think he mentioned putting down an area right next to Graves Registration. I'll also take a look at my '66 dated APH5. It is OD.

By the way, there are some pictures posted here of the SPH4 flight helmet with High Visibility reflector tape. This was done towards the very end of Vietnam or just after, accounts vary. A double edged sword, spot them on the ground easy for recovery or fly over them and leave them because you cant see them.

Update.

Apart from responding to posts, I have tried to leave this thread alone for a while due to its size, But it seems to have taken on a life of its own, . With the amount of interest in the Vietnam Huey thread and the new posts that always seem to appear it seems that readers are not put off by the length of the thread (which i am sure would take well over an hour to read by now) it just goes to show the popularity of the huey. This thread covers so many aspects of the huey and with the fantastic contributions from the Veterans and historians, its no surprise that the information contained in here is so popular.

At some point i should probably think about including an index on the first page lol to help guide modelers to the section they are looking for.

For anyone reading this thread for the first time make sure you check out Ray's (Rotorwash) excellent thread "Unusual Vietnam Hueys" it contains all the information you could hope to find on unusual armament systems. It is a fantastic and informative thread and a great source of pictures and info on the unusual and experimental side of the US Army's use of the huey helicopter. This great thread can be found here...

/forums/767176/ShowPost.aspx

Also Please check out Mel's (Melgyver's) UH-1C. Main Rotor Head Detail Thread,.

An extremly detailed, well thought out and informative thread, That will help anyone to correct the MR system on the MRC/Academy UH-1C. If that wasnt enough "Mel" has also made a seperate thread dealing with the main rotor system for the UH-1B/D/F/P/H model hueys!! Aimed at anyone building the Panda/Revell, UH-1D/H helicopters. An invaluable source of info for any huey modeler, please check them out.

UH-1C      /forums/785871/ShowPost.aspx

UH-1D/H   /forums/785884/ShowPost.aspx

For inspiration on building a huey model, two of the best you are ever likely to see and in my opinion set the benchmark for the rest of us, are..

Gino's (HeavyArty's) Medevac, Panda build, the only medevac build ive seen which includes a Forest/jungle penetrator, the detail is fantastic. The pictures, advice and generosity from Gino has been a major help to me in my modeling. A picture of this model and links to other pictures of this huey build can be found here. 

/forums/743469/ShowPost.aspx

Last but not least, without doubt the best UH-1C Gunship build i have ever seen, by a guy that has modeling skills that i would give my right arm for. I can only speak for myself as a relative newbie to helicopter modeling, but im sure everyone on here would agree with me, that his attention to detail on his helicopters is fantastic

Andy's (Intruder_Bass) UH-1C "Mustang 6" build.

/forums/742588/ShowPost.aspx

As interest in this thread is still popular i will carry on posting anything i find that i think may be of interest to any huey modelers out there.

I found this link on the Robert mason site (of Chickenhawk fame) and although its not realy relevent to Vietnam era hueys its still a worthwhile addition to the thread for any huey modeler as you can zoom into any of the control panel dials you choose and have a good look around the interior of a huey in 3D with a click of the mouse button. Great fun and lots of help for anyone interested in and looking for (position of overhead lights or any of the control panel detail)  Click on the + tab to zoom in and the - tab to zoom out and use the mouse to scroll left, right,up and down.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/interact/qtvr/uhc/images/hueyB.mov

Hope this comes in handy for someone.

Ive also got a bizzare Comic style huey maintenance pamphlet that covers everything from checking for loose nuts to tips on securing the sound proof padding, i cant remember for the life of me where i got it but its well worth a look. plus the original M23 M60D Instruction booklet if anyones interested, let me know and il post them on here.

Andy.

PS. for anyone new to building hueys dont forget to check out the cobra companys after market offerings, everything from M60d's for your slick to Quad 60s for your gunship, you can even convert your UH-1C to a UH-1B! courtesy of Chris at ...

 http://www.cobracompany.com/

Snake36Bravo,

Thanks for the info on the helmets, i didnt realise the white ones were used for high vis, it also explains the reasoning behind the red ones ive seen in some of the old photos. High vis helmets made sense and would probably of seemed like a good idea in the event of a downed helicopter crew, until Vietnam, But the use of helicopters in combat was a new concept and i suppose lessons had to be learnt in the field. Things that cost money to change, dont tend to get changed without good reason, so it kinda points to the fact that some of those lessons must have been learnt the hard way. It just seems such a shame that there are possibly a few names on the wall in Washington that otherwise would not have been there if not for an oversite by the air mobility "experts" on the color of the helmets that were ironicly provided to help keep them alive.

Im no military big wig, but in a jungle environment an olive drab helmet seems kind of obvious to me lol. Its a bit strange that Olive drab clothes were provided to crews as standard for camo reasons!! but a big white or red helmet was provided for high vis lol!

If i only wanted one part of my uniform to be used for high visibility purposes in the event of needing to be rescued from a hostile environment, Im damn sure it wouldn't be the part that sat on my head .

Anyway it cleared up for me why alot of the pictures ive seen from 65 show white helmets.

Does anyone know if everyone was issued white helmets in 65 or if they were used by the Air Cav during the Ia drang campaign and when the change to OD took place? I know from photos that OD helmets were in use in the Air Cav by Jan/Feb 66 along with the M23 mounts for the door gunners.

Ive also found it interesting that for some reason alot of Medevac crews along with Marine and Navy Crews were still using the white helmets long after the Army were using olive drab! does anyone know why???

Andy