ME-262: Reich Defender II 10/09-7/10

Hi everyone,

I've been keeping an eye on whats going on and I must say I'm seeing some great stuff so thanks to you all for posting so much.

Woohoo!! I finally managed to start my Tamiya 1/48 262A 1a last night so I will be posting more soon, it's to dark for decent photo's when I make it home from work so I will wait till Sunday or Monday and a nice bit of daylight. I've got some RLM 83, 82, 76 on order for  Major Rudolf Sinner's "Green 1" , do you guys think that sounds correct? last time I followed Tamiyas call outs on my 109 and it was wrong .

Cheers...

Charles, the set didn't indicate that the general was supposed to look like Ike, but I did tell my wife that figure indeed looked like Ike.  There is another figure, not sure if he showed up in the photo, standing near the front of the display holding binoculars and seemingly more interested in what might be coming toward them than the 262, that looks a lot like George C Scott as General Patton.

STeven: Bravo! Well executed! Is that the General Eisenhower figure I see in there? That must look awesome inyour display area.

SC: Nice one...welcome to the new format. I've gotten used to it.. The Quick Reply button is a nice feature. Looking forward to  the 2-seater!

I do not really have any major problems with the changes except for the bright white background.. As you know I am prone to migranes and the bright white color really seems to drill right though my eyes and into my head.causing me pain. If they could just change the background color which is not asking for much I would visit here more often. I have a cool 1/72 scale two seat night fighter that I wanted to do for this GB also.

If I could just find a way to change the background color I would be alright.

                                                                                                                 Soulcrusher

Charles- LOL, didn't want to brag that they named it after me!   Now, who is this "Lindberg" fellow? J/K

Mo- Funny they forgot the small "S" on the tail, as it is quite prominent in the photos.  I'll be looking forward to your next round of pics!

Mike- I am very sorry to hear about the loss of "Rote zwei".  I will really look forward to seeing your work on the next one.  Chin up mate!

Fred- Judging from the color photos and profiles, it looks like 74/75 splinter on the fuselage, with mottles of the two.  I'm guessing the 83 is combined with either the 74 or 75 (cannot remember at the moment which was used with the 83) is on the wings?

Steven- WOW!  Definitely worth the wait.  Very sharp dio, thanks for sharing the pics!

Crushersnapps- Excellent work on your Schwalbe!  I like this one very much, especially the paint scheme.  Thank you so much for posting it here, it really means a lot to me.  Please, don't be a stranger my friend.

SC -- I managed to coax a decent fit from the gunbay cover, though with a lot of effort, superglue and patience. Of course the clear parts don't lend themselves to that sort of attention, which leaves the dilemma -- leave it as-is or try filling the gap, resulting in an absence of panel lines rather than lines way too deep...

This is something Tamiya could have fixed if they'd wanted to, by retooling the clear sprue for that kit with corrected parts, the way Trumpeter retooled the fuselage parts for their Wildcat when reviewers pointed out that it was just plain the wrong shape!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Yeah Mike I only realised it did not fit until everything was painted and I was not going to redo the whole model so I just left it as is. The gun opening panel did not fit either. It was to narrow so I glued one side down then slide a used blade in behind it to push it out and ran some thin cement in behind it to fix it in place. The gun bay cover was a horrible fit and I could not see any easy way to fit it so I just used the open gun bay doors instead. It definetely has more fit issues than most Tamiya kits I have evey build.

Thanks for the kind words Dirkpitt!

                                                                                                                      Soulcrusher

Steven, That is a stunning diorama.

SC, You've done an outstanding job on your 262 too. I also agree with you about the new format. I just can't get use to it and its difficult to find things. I mean everything is there but it doesn't stand out like it did.

Great job fellas

Steven -- wonderful diorama and very realistic, very natural. I'm no figure painter either but to my eye you've acehived an entirely adequate realism. Great work!

SC -- lovely Jabo! The Tamiya is a beautiful kit! I see you had exactly the same difficulty I had with the canopy seating and your solution seems to have been to ignore the gap. That's where I'm stuck right now, canopy on, masked and interior-coated, but the paint revealed that uncharacteristic gap where none should be... I've not yet decided what to do about it.

Cheers, Mike/B379

Well this is my first post here since the change over. The new format is killing my eyes but I wanted to post my finished pics of the 262 that I finshed for this GB mainly out of respect for our leader Frank. So here she is the Tamiya 1/48 262 Jabo.

                                                                                                                     Soulcrusher

Steven, that is awesome.  Great idea skillfully executed!

Here is my latest involving this group build - I have taken my completed Messerschmitt and put it into a diorama.

I am calling this "General Inspection .... where are the damn props?"  The scene depicts a group of US infantrymen accompanied by a nameless general who come across this abandoned aircraft somewhere in (probably) northern Germany in the closing days of the war.  The scene is not based on anything more than my imagination.

I acquired Tamiya's US Army Infantry At Rest set which cleverly includes a 1/48 jeep and added it to the scene, along with the kettenkraftraud that comes with the 262 kit.

My strength does not lie in painting figures, especially the faces.  Some of these guys look like zombies from Dawn of the Dead rather than people.  I also kept thinking that in the days since I first painted them, they were out there in my garage doing a Night at the Museum thing, but I digress.

The base is a simple piece of plywood bordered by angle wood I picked up at Home Depot and finished with some wood stain I had left over from an unrelated project.  The ground cover is what I picked up from the model railroad section at Hobby Lobby.  It was my first time working with this stuff, but it went down pretty well once I figured out that I had to let the scenic glue actually dry over a few days.

The build is a multi-year build in that I actually completed the 262 last November or so for the Messerschmitt Me 262 group build, then finished the diorama just a few minutes ago.

Having looked at the Jagdwaffe volume covering 262s and 163s, White 15 has no oleo scissors either.

Mike, sorry to hear about you Schwalbe.

Karl

Fred,

I may have some more info on this one at home, I'll get back to you.

Ok, this will be the picture I base most of the paint on http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/1013564777028529354plYGTDQvJM

I will also be using these 2 as well as they seem corroborate the above picture  http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/455/2/1/46  http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/455/2/1/46_a1

The color call out seem to be RLM 74, 75, 76 and 83.  Now I just have to figure out what those colors are .

-Fred

Hey Frank, would you say, based on those decal sheets, that it's a splinter camo of RLM 74 and 75 over a RLM 76 base with 74 and 75 mottling?

And it looks like I'll be chopping off the scissor from the nose strut - oh well.

-Fred

Well guys, I am sad to report the "Red 2" is no more.... (insert "Taps" playing softly in the background)

Too many areas that I wasn't happy with and really weren't correctable at thsi point in the build.  I did manage to salvage the CMK resin nose which will be transplanted to the next project.

I've got the 1/72 Revell Me 262B Nachtjager all ready to go so I'll be starting that soon, also ordered a 1/72 Hasegawa 262A with a Quickboost resin engine.  I'll try to get you two by the end of the GB, Frank!

Cool reference pics, Frank.  The photo of White 17 is a better shot of her, than the one in the walk around. I noticed a second white s on the tail, which isn't visible in the Squadron 262 book.

Mucker, thanks and I'll be looking for your progress on the 262 soon.

 I've got the slat filler fitted to the port wing and should be starting on the starboard soon. I'll post a shot after they've been installed. Kinda difficult working with the wing still in seperate pieces.

 Mobious

Mo, Johnny and Fred:

Some very nice work displayed here. I enjoy seeing the progress. I am a few days away from rolling up the sleeves and starting the Tamiya 262. Your pics mare me more anxious to get going

Frank: You forgot to mention that the Ki-84 in your signature line is codenamed "Frank" Must be an a honor to have a plane named after you! All I have is some guy namd Lindberg.... 

You're welcome Fred.  Have done some digging for you on White 17, not finding much but this is what I have found thus far.

here's a photo of White 16 from III.?EJG.2 taking off, no scissors on this one.  I know it is not White 17, but thought it might help.

And another small color photo of White 17

Note the black fuselage crosses, unusual for a 262.

Also, found this info from a review on Cutting Edge decals, some interesting bits here.  Scroll down to see some detailed info on each plane.

ME-262

Hope those help a little!

Those are great, Frank - thank you .  If I recall, Aero Detail 9, has a similar picture of the removed stabilizer fairing - still unable to see what's in there LOL.  What we need is a series of books written and photographed by and for, modelers.  Pictures of detail areas that are in focus, not washed out by flash or so close-up that there's no point of context.

I wonder why White 17 was deemed non-combat ready?  Something wrong with it or had it just become to mechanically worn to continue fighting?  I wish that picture showed the nose strut, though.  I want to see if there's a scissor on the strut or not.

-Fred

Fred,

Here are those scans for you, hope they help!  Even if it is for the NEXT 262 you build LOL.

Let me know if there are any other areas you would like a close up of.

Randy, I certainly won't question your knowledge of operational aircraft - you know more than I, on that subject .  But, the vast majority of pictures of the 262 show the stablizers either neutral, or deflected up.  And since I'm in no mood to cut the mounting points off, they're either going to be deflected up or down.  And even though you do bring up a lot of valid, solid facts, right now, I'm strongly leaning towards up.

Frank, I sealed up the fuselage last night, so I guess it's too late for me to do any further construction, but I'd love to see the pictures, anyway.  I have the "In Action" book (which is more like a pamphlet of every terrible picture you've seen on the internet), which is no help in the construction of a 262.  You're going to love this trumpeter kit - there is nary a fit issue to be found.  Things fit together so perfectly, you can almost assemble it without glue.  The metal struts are great, but the seam lines and ejector marks are a real pain in the hoo-ha - especially when one of the ejectors marks is on the oleo.  On the strut, not a problem, as you can fill them in and paint over them.  But on the oleo, it's a pain, as that's the part I want to look like actual metal.

And as for the Hiyate, if it has a meatball on it, it's a zero , LOL.  Like the movie Role Models; "suck it, Reindeer Games", "I told you, I'm not Ben Aflek", "You white, you Ben Aflek", "Well...I am white". LMAO.

Thanks, MO, that's the look I'm hopefully going to achieve.

I'm finally down to two assemblies, fuselage and wings.  I can't decide if I should paint them seperately or as a single unit.  I'm leaning towards single unit in case there's seam work I need to fix after the wing assembly is attached.  Decisions, decisions...

-Fred

OK here is my first in progress shot.  Mistel 4 (2 Me262's)

Wow the Me 262 elevators were electric ? I didnt know they had motors that would work well enough for that  back then. Maybe I need to do my homework on the Me 262 as I would like to see how that worked.

Mobious my build will be starting in the next few weeks, I am sure I will have lots of bonehead questions to ask and will post more than likely more pictures that you guys will wanna see. 

Hey gigatron, that should look awesome, almost like a cut-away. Very cool idea. 

Vetteman, Didn't know that you were a pilot. Awesome. But that's got me worried now...  First time I repositioned the ailerons on an airplane, I had both in the same direction. So I'm counting on ya to point out the technicals, but not too many of em.  Hope to see some progress shots of the Monogram 262 .

 Frank, the nose wheel looks like a beauty. Looks like the tire has a nice wieghted look.

  I was trying to build Me 262 with as much stuff out of the box as I could. Well, I had a mishap will removing the outboard slat from the lower wing, the little sliver of a piece. I should have reread my "How I did it" post and used a new blade. oops. Used a piece of half round styrene as a replacement.

 Anyway, Had a sheet of .080" , shot the angle of the slat, cut, filed, sanded and came up with this.

[View:/themes/fsm/utility/:550:0]

A better fit in less time. The other filler piece is awaiting fitting, and the sprue is in the can.

 Mobious

OK Fred, I understand now!  I don't know if you have the Squadron Walk Around book, but on page 68 there is a photo showing the electric trim actuator and turnbuckle from the left side.  The fairing around the horizontal stab has been removed, showing the insides.  Also, on page 70 there is a photo showing a few more details inside the vertical tail- mostly just rib details.  If you do not have the book, I could scan those pages for you.  Not sure how well the detail would show but thought I would offer anyway.

One other thing- the elevators on the 262 were electrically activated- would this impact how they drooped or not when parked?  If the A/C were powered down, would the elevators still move when the stick moved?  Just a thought...

Well Fred, I broke sprue on my Trumpeter 262 last night!  Didn't do much work, except clean up the Contact Resine resin wheels.  They are very nicely detailed, even have the brake line fitting molded onto the wheels.  They do have a few pinholes, however.  Most are in the tread area, but there are a few annoying ones in VERY hard to fix places.  I plan to ignore them completely! 

I also cleaned up the nose strut, opting for one of the styrene ones as they did not have the ugly ejector pin marks like the metal ones.  I was impressed though with the fact Trumpeter provides a complete set of metal gear, as well as a complete set of plastic legs.  They even give you an extra styrene nose gear!  Not sure why, they probably meant to mold one with the scissors and the other one without.  Both have the scissors however- rare for an operational A-1a.  I removed it, but left the lower bracket intact as most photos I have seen of the nose gear show the bracket in place.

BTW, no big deal- just thought I would mention the A/C in my sig is actually a Ki-84 Hayate.

Gigatron

Ok gang, all major sub assemblies have been built.  Now, I have 2 questions, one of which I'm pretty sure I know the answer to, but I figured I'd ask.

First - rear horizontal stabilzers; Trumpeter says they go down, I say the go up.  My reasoning, first, every photograph of a parked 262 shows the stabs in the up position.  Second, the mass-balance would gravitate down, thereby pulling the stabs in the up position.  Who's right?

-Fred

 

Fred I think I may be able to answer this question for ya. Actually either way would be correct, after flying a number of conventional geared aircraft and building one myself. The mass weights are ment to prevent control surface flutter in flight and tend to balance the control surface. The weights generally arent heavy enough to effect the possition the elevaters once parked on the ground. Remeber those weights will have to infulance all the linkages and the weight of the control stick. I found the elevaters pretty much stayed where the pilot left the stick once parked. Some and I am guilty of this would push the stick all the way forward ( down elevator)  to get it out of the way to climb out of the cockpit then it would fall back toward nutral once you let go of it. On a windy day they would tie the stick back ( full up elevator) with the seatbelt to hold the tail down in a strong wind. So either way would be right, however I would tend to stay away from full deflections, just slightly up or down elevator would be more natural. Hope I explained it well enough for ya and helped you out some.

PS Fred I just realized the 262's were sitting on a tricycle gear DUH !!!! The same would apply other than the possition for wind, if they had control locks the elevater would be locked in a slightly down position to hold the nose on the ground. Sorry bout that

Ok, upward facing stablizers, it is

Frank, about the tail, see the Zero in your signature?  Now, see the angle the front of the vertical stablizer makes?  Now take that imaginary line and continue it down, across the fuselage.  I'll be using that as a paint demarcation on the 262.  Since there's no interior detail that far back, the paint keeps the plane from looking "empty".

I'll see what I can gather from the Walk-Around book.  Up till now, it's been a complete waste.

-Fred

Fred,

I am no expert on the Schwalbe either, but your logic with the elevators sounds logical to me.  I say go for it!

As for your choice of markings, I built my little 1/144 ME-262 as "White 17", but after painting it realized that the colors I chose were not correct.  Oh, well... live and learn!  The only photo I know of it is a color period photo in the Squadron Walk-Around book at the bottom of page 4.  It is only a partial photo of the left fuselage side, but it gives a pretty good representation on the camo pattern and colors.  Not sure on the actual colors (or the pattern on the wings), perhaps someone with the excellent 262 reference books by Jerry Crandall can help.  Interesting note about this particular 262- it was flown at for a while by Heinz Bar (who also flew Red 13)!  Not sure I understand the last part of your question regarding the tail?