The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

Yeh.  I wish the different browser authors would get together and make sure they all work identically but that isn't going to happen.  I've been using Firefox for years.  It's gotten much better and with the exception of a few Facebook games, everything works fine.  What makes me thing it's a coding error is that only that one particular forum is causing him the problem, meaning something may be up with the code for that one page.  I worked for ISPs in everything from customer support to web development to network administration for about 20 years before I was disabled and I have seen all manner of weirdness in my day.  I would also suggest what others have, try different browsers.  I'm not as familiar with the modern Mac browsers but I know the PC Firefox is very rock solid stable.

Son Of Medicine Man

Ish47guy:

I have experience with website development and one of the problems that a developer has to face is coding for different browsers.  I would follow Dean's advice and install Mozilla Firefox.  It does follow the Web standards developed by the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C).

Ken

I started on my kit by sanding off the boiler plate size scab patches.  I masked around the raised areas so as not to damage the surrounding areas.  It is going slow as I am trying to minimize damage.  After I am done with the patches I'll remove the beef up plate and stiffiners on the horz stab.  My jet was almost brand new and did not have any battle damage.  When I became crew chief on it, it had less than 100 hours on the airframe.  I have one set of Super Sucker intakes but I plan on using them for a later build.  I will place intake covers on this one and use the kit supplied intakes.

berny13

I started on my kit by sanding off the boiler plate size scab patches.  I masked around the raised areas so as not to damage the surrounding areas.  It is going slow as I am trying to minimize damage.  After I am done with the patches I'll remove the beef up plate and stiffiners on the horz stab.  My jet was almost brand new and did not have any battle damage.  When I became crew chief on it, it had less than 100 hours on the airframe.  I have one set of Super Sucker intakes but I plan on using them for a later build.  I will place intake covers on this one and use the kit supplied intakes.

Hi Berny, could you post some pictures of your build?  I would really like to see them!

Ken

T-bolt: All right I made the decision!!!!! I am going with an oldie but goodie for this build.

Monogram's F-4J 1/72 scale "out of the box" with USS "Connie" decals.

Will post some pics soon. Thanks for the opportunity to join this build and get a Phantom out of the stash.

Travis

Finally got the speedbrakes cut out, though I busted the left wing at one point. I'm using the Monogram 1/72 kit to help get a rough idea of the dimensions of the areas that I'm having to scratch, like the front nose gear bay. I got that done last night as well. I'll hopefully get the speedbrake bays boxed in and get the wings glued on in a couple of days. I had to put a lot of shims on the nosecone to get rid of the buzzard beak look. It's not 100% to me, but much better than before. I decided not to put a lot of effort in the cockpit, with the closed canopy and all; I'd had enough of that trying to fix the Italeri "S" I built last summer.  If I can get a digital camera freed up, I'll try to post some pics tomorrow.

Glenn

Son Of Medicine Man

Hi Berny, could you post some pictures of your build?  I would really like to see them!

Ken

As I get further along in the build, I'll post some pictures.

Great progress, gents! It's only January 3rd on this side of the dateline and this thread is already tickling page 4!

Dean and Travis, thanks, your details have been updated on the leader post.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Just downloaded Firefox for Mac, & everything is working great.  Thanks for all of your input.

Ish

Here is the Revell C/ D I shall begin working on soon. I have too much else on my workbench ATM so I really can't start another build with out doing my head in. I will hopefully commence in a few weeks or so. I have washed all the parts in soapy water and will be doing it OOB apart from rescribing/riveting all that hideous raised detail, adding scratchbuilt harnesses, probably reworking/replacing the arrestor hook and adding a Hasegawa seated figure along with the box provided seated figure. It will also be a wheels-up affair which will chop off some bench time and save me from having to replace the heavily simplified and inferior wheel-well and leg detail, but will require me to do my first in-flight display. I will have to choose a place in which to drill at an angle and insert probably a brass rod placed on a wooden base. All I have left to do before I can begin is decide on a C or D version. I am leaning towards D as I have seen very few with he triple-strutted aerial on the spine. The camouflage will be the common tri-colour (dark green/olive green/beige-brown) scheme.

Not a lot done tonight, got home kind of late. Rescribed the missing panel line in front of the cockpit, touched up paint around the windscreen area and began the dreadful task of masking the canopy pieces.

And it begins!    Broke out both my  Blue Angel and My F-4F.   Starting on the F-4F and building it straight OOB to see just how good of a kit this new mold is.  I still need seamless intakes and metal landing gear for the Blue Angel F-4J.  For those, I need money, and for money, I need a job. LoL!!   So my F-4J might not start for a bit.                And away I go!!!!!!!!!!!

Just wondering.  Does anyone have the Hasegawa 1/48 RAF FG2 kit that could let me know exactly what colors it needs?  I talked the Wifey into making a run to the Hobbytown store for some stuff and I wanted to pick up what I need all at once.  Thanks.

Rich

I have decided on the loadout for my F-4D.  It will have four BLU-27 Napalm tanks loaded, two each on TER's mounted on the inboard pylons and a SUU-23/A gun pod loaded on the centerline.  That was a standard load for truck busting missions. 

Any one planning on a truck busting loadout, this type of load would be number one and two in a flight of four.  Number three and four would be loaded with MK-20's (two each) on the inboard TER and SUU-30's (four each) loaded on the centerline MER.  A second flight of four would have number one and two loaded with BLU-27 Napalm (two on each inboard TER) and four SUU-30's on a centerline MER.  Alternate load for number one and two would be two SUU-30's on each inboard TER and a SUU-23/A gun pod on the centerline.  Number three and four would have two LAU-3 rocket pods on each inboard TER, and four SUU-30's loaded on a centerline MER.  An alternate load for number three and four would be the rocket pods and a SUU-23/A gun pod on the centerline. 

All aircraft in the flight would have AIM-7's loaded on the aft station and a ALQ-87 ECM pod loaded on the left forward missile well.

There is something about a Phantom loaded with a centerline gun pod that just looks mean and ready for action.

Hi Rich -- I think you mean the FGR.2? It depends on the variant you're doing, the kit offers options for camo or triple-grey schemes. The camo is the boxtop scheme and IIRC it depicts the aircraft at the time there was a third underside colour, before the camo went wraparound (as it did on Tornados) -- whether Phantoms got this latter is something I'm not clear on.

For the camo scheme, my best shot at this time is as follows (British Standard, equivalent of FS):

Dark Green BS381C/641 (Gunze H330)

Dark Sea Grey BS381C/638 (Gunze H331)

Using the Gunze codes you can work through comparison charts to find the nearest matches in other ranges, eg the charts at the IPMS Stockholme site. Humbrol and MM are the most likely to have matches, but if you can get samples of the colour there'salways the mixing road in acrylics. I know Humbrol have the three greys for the other scheme in their range.

Incidentally, Allmark have a high quality decal sheet featuring the same schemes and it's highly recommended as preferable to the kit sheet, crisper and better printed, with truer colours.

Cheers, hope this helps, Mike/TB379

Wow, there's a lot goin' on today. Time to head to the bunker and hack at some plastic....

Glenn

Yup FGR2.  I don't know why I keep dropping the R.  I have been looking for those decals but I can't find anyone with them in stock and affordable yet.  I will be doing the Camo Box art color scheme.  I like the look of the RAF Camo. :)I might just stick to the Gunze if they have something useful that I can find in stock.

Thunderbolt379

Hi Rich -- I think you mean the FGR.2? It depends on the variant you're doing, the kit offers options for camo or triple-grey schemes. The camo is the boxtop scheme and IIRC it depicts the aircraft at the time there was a third underside colour, before the camo went wraparound (as it did on Tornados) -- whether Phantoms got this latter is something I'm not clear on.

For the camo scheme, my best shot at this time is as follows (British Standard, equivalent of FS):

Dark Green BS381C/641 (Gunze H330)

Dark Sea Grey BS381C/638 (Gunze H331)

Using the Gunze codes you can work through comparison charts to find the nearest matches in other ranges, eg the charts at the IPMS Stockholme site. Humbrol and MM are the most likely to have matches, but if you can get samples of the colour there'salways the mixing road in acrylics. I know Humbrol have the three greys for the other scheme in their range.

Incidentally, Allmark have a high quality decal sheet featuring the same schemes and it's highly recommended as preferable to the kit sheet, crisper and better printed, with truer colours.

Cheers, hope this helps, Mike/TB379

Put me down for a Revell-Ceji F-4F 1:32 circa 1985 - nicely warped paper thin crispy styrene.

Thank the powers that be for the British...  I found the decals and for a great price on a UK site.  Hannants.  I got the Phantom decals for the FGR.2 and they were so inexpensive, I had to order a set of inexpensive Spitfire decals to get it over the minimum order to ship outside the UK.  It came to $13.60 including shipping altogether.  I got a look at the Aires  resin kit for the FGR.2 and it looks sweet.  Gonna maybe save up for it.

Thunderbolt379

Hi Rich -- I think you mean the FGR.2? It depends on the variant you're doing, the kit offers options for camo or triple-grey schemes. The camo is the boxtop scheme and IIRC it depicts the aircraft at the time there was a third underside colour, before the camo went wraparound (as it did on Tornados) -- whether Phantoms got this latter is something I'm not clear on.

For the camo scheme, my best shot at this time is as follows (British Standard, equivalent of FS):

Dark Green BS381C/641 (Gunze H330)

Dark Sea Grey BS381C/638 (Gunze H331)

Using the Gunze codes you can work through comparison charts to find the nearest matches in other ranges, eg the charts at the IPMS Stockholme site. Humbrol and MM are the most likely to have matches, but if you can get samples of the colour there'salways the mixing road in acrylics. I know Humbrol have the three greys for the other scheme in their range.

Incidentally, Allmark have a high quality decal sheet featuring the same schemes and it's highly recommended as preferable to the kit sheet, crisper and better printed, with truer colours.

Cheers, hope this helps, Mike/TB379

How close would Model Master Enamel 2059 "RAF Dark Sea Gray" and Model Master Enamel 2060 "RAF Dark Green" be?

According to the web, the RAF Dark Sea Gray (Testors MM Enamel 2059) is a match for the BS381C/638.  The RAF Dark Green (Testors MM Enamel 2060) is coming up as BS381C/241, not 641, but is still showing as "RAF Dark Green".  That's a bit odd, don'tcha think?

I need some advice here: The Italeri kit I have here has the option of building a Luftwaffe version which research tells me is done in a "Norm 72" pattern. The kit gives mixing formulas for the colors, but I am led to believe that the above mentioned MM2 colors of 2059 and 2060 would be equivalent, with a silver or dull aluminum under belly. I was thinking of paying around with this kit in addition to my Hasegawa "G". If the colors were just close, it would be fine with me.

Bocckscar -- Page 1 updated with your build, welcome aboard!

Guys, this is a great discussion and I will be most interested to see what shakes down. The '641' reference on the green may have been a misprint in my sources... My gut feeling is that MM 2059 and 2060 may be late WWII colours equivalent to Humbrol 106 and 163 -- and not as rich as the RAF contemporary shades.  I photgraphed Tornados in green-over-grey and they looked deeper tones, but I'm the first to admit that's purely subjective. I look forward fo whatever you can find out, especially with regard to the Luftwaffe scheme, as those paints sound different to callouts in F-4F kit plans I've looked at lately...

Cheers, MIke/TB379

Yeh that is kind of odd.  I wonder if it might be a typo..

BigSmitty

According to the web, the RAF Dark Sea Gray (Testors MM Enamel 2059) is a match for the BS381C/638.  The RAF Dark Green (Testors MM Enamel 2060) is coming up as BS381C/241, not 641, but is still showing as "RAF Dark Green".  That's a bit odd, don'tcha think?

Thunderbolt, mine will be the F-4E, sorry I didn't mention that previously! I'm breaking my own rules by building this plane. I had said I wouldn't do 1:48 modern jets as I don't have the space for them but I couldn't resist a $5 dollar kit; purchased from a vendor at AMPS East back in September.

Paging Mr. Berny.  Mr. Berny, please pick up the white courtesy phone…

Hey Berny, I have a question for ya.  Back when I did my three Phantoms for the previous GB I hung a MER on the centerline, but you mentioned the pylon I used was the wrong one.  I used the “long” one that I cut from a centerline tank, but you pointed out that I needed the “short” one.  

Well, I’m starting to get all my stuff together for the 2011 Phantom GB.  One thing I wanna do is hang a TER from the centerline of a -C.  Am I correct in assuming a TER would also need the “short” pylon? 

My next question is, do you have pix of the “short” pylon?  I have the 1/48 Hase –C, but I didn’t see a “short” centerline pylon in the box.  If I need a short one for my TER, I may have to scratch one.

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

-O

TER's were not hung on the centerline, only MER's.  Any ordinance hung on the centerline required the center line pylon (short one).  The only exception was when a Nuke was hung, which was mounted directly to the centerline bomb rack.  Also the centerline tank did not use the pylon as the tank had a built in cover panel that some mistake for a pylon.  It was actually panels that protected the fuel, air standpipes and wiring

The pylon had to be used to allow for clearance of any load that was hung.  I have an extra centerline pylon in 1/48 scale and can send it to you if you e mail your address.   

Hey Berny,

I appreciate the offer for the C/L pylon.  My addy’s on its way.  Although, I’m hoping I can pick your brain a little more.  I have a couple of questions about the jet I wanna build, and I figured I’d post my questions here since your answers might be useful to other members and their Phantoms.  I hope you (and the mods) don’t mind…

Here’s the jet I’m gonna build. 

(Pic taken from http://8tfw.com/pages/philics.htm)

The caption says it’s a –C from ’65 or ’66.  To my untrained eye it looks like the inboard pylons are the straight edged “Navy” style ones, with TERs and “adapters” hung on ‘em.  The outboard pylons have TERs too, but would any “adapter” be needed between the outboard pylon and TER?  Also, it looks to me like the outboard TER and pods are canted outboard a bit.  Am I right, or are my eyes playing with my head?  If that’s right, would the whole TER be canted, or is it how the pods are attached to the TER?  How much would they be canted?  (My guess is to accommodate the MLG?) 

In regards to the C/L, I was only guessing about the pylon.  You mentioned that TERs were not hung from the belly, so maybe you can help me out.  I wouldn’t think that a MER would be used to hang the 3 pods and that a TER would be more logical, but hey, what do I know?  (That’s why I’m asking the pro.)  It’s difficult (if not impossible) to see what the underside looks like, so in your professional opinion, what do you think the set-up is for the belly?

Lastly, a couple of questions about the tail, if I may.  Considering the timeframe (‘65/’66), do you think the stabilators had the triangular reinforcing plates?  Also, would they be “slatted” or “unslatted” tails?

You’re knowledge and input is invaluable.  Thanks in advance! 

Cheers,

-O

From the picture you posted, it looks like TER's on all five stations.  The outboard pylons did not hang straight but were canted outboard.  This was to allow for clearance on the landing gear doors.  If you look real close at the outboard pylon you will see it is the Navy style outboard pylon. 

During the time frame the picture was taken, '65-'66 the stab beef up plate was not installed.  The stab would be non slotted.  The F-4C/D, and RF-4C never used the slotted stab.

That is the Navy/Marine style inboard pylon and could be seen on many F-4C's during that time period.  I can't see the centerline pylon, but I'll just about bet it has the Navy style pylon installed.  If it does, it will be different than the USAF style.

If you will notice, this is a jet from a weapons test squadron and many flew with loads not carried by active squadrons.  Some loads were not approved for use on the F-4 after tests were done because of problems.

Great stuff Berny!

So that begs the question, how is the Navy style C/L pylon different that the USAF style?  What did it look like?  Any pics showing the difference?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'd better get it right the first time or I know you'll call me out on it later.

Cheers,

-O

So I want to get in on this GB as I missed the first one. I will be building a Tamiya F-4J in Marine Corps markings

Steve