The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

Freeform creativity is good! Scratching the bits you need from whatever is to hand to an artt!

A little progress on the Fujimi RF-4E, nothing spectacular yet. The fuselage has been remedially scribed and the wing attached, but in trueing-up the fuselage around the cockpit it seemed to do something to the width, take a look at the joints that opened up!

I was amazed, especially as at first the fuselage was so wide I was filing the wingroots... All I can think is that you have a choice, mismatches along the lower forward fuselage if you leave the kit spacer intact, or gaps at the wingroots if you shorten it to solve the first problem... It's probably the best way to go, as these are old-school problems. Here she is after the first round of filling and sanding:

Much better... A second round is underway, I'll also take the filler back to the flap juncture, it'll make it less obvious despite the fact there was no gap that far back. Then I'll turn her over and start again on the underside joints, then there's the lateral joints alongside the engines... I'm really hoping Hasegawa has less elbow-grease involved, after filling, sanding and rescribing this one I think I'll have earned an easy build!

One other point, though the intake junctures fall on a natural panel line, there's no way to leave them unfilled, the tolerances just aren't close enough in this scale. Tighter engineering at much larger scale, and you could preserve the line, but at this scale the only way would be to eliminate the joint with superglue and scribe the line into it, and that would be a pretty delicate operation... I'll see what's possible. The line might end up applied with a fine marker, or scribed slightly back from its real location to miss the putty...

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Thunderbolt.  What are you using for filler on the wing roots?  Just white putty?

SH -- yep, Squadron White. I was going to shim it with plastic but couldn't be bothered, I just piled in filler, thinned with liquid cement, then rubbed it down with 1200 grade, wet.

M/TB379

Ish47guy

Bockscar, I one saw a pretty simple & effective way to dress up featureless interiors of J-79 nozzles. Take thin sheet styrene & cut rectangular strips about the same dimensions as the petals on the exterior, & glue them in the same position on the inside as they are on the outside.

Ish you are too kind, just so happens I have Evergreen strips, 0.030*0.188, a little thick, but accounting for audience distance, they will do perfectly, many thanks for the suggestion.

And thanks for the ID on that cover Phantom, actually the thought of using F4's as missile bait makes me feel a bit sick...

Yes I'll send more highly coveted photos this weekend, I'm gonna make this ugly bird sing!

Ish47guy

Bockscar, I one saw a pretty simple & effective way to dress up featureless interiors of J-79 nozzles. Take thin sheet styrene & cut rectangular strips about the same dimensions as the petals on the exterior, & glue them in the same position on the inside as they are on the outside.

Ish you are too kind, just so happens I have Evergreen strips, 0.030*0.188, a little thick, but accounting for audience distance, they will do perfectly, many thanks for the suggestion.

And thanks for the ID on that cover Phantom, actually the thought of using F4's as missile bait makes me feel a bit sick...

Yes I'll send more highly coveted photos this weekend, I'm gonna make this ugly bird sing!

Anonymous, I could't agree more... But take heart. While it's true that one Raptor took out twelve Tomcats in simulated battle, I read in a story on the drone Phantoms in National Air & Space Magazine, that it took four Raptors to knock down a single Phantom when it the exercise was in earnest. She's one tough old bird, and will be around for a while yet!

Cheers, M/TB379

Son Of Medicine Man

Well, another disappointment at the end of the day.  Still no kit.  Blast!  My Hasegawa Aircraft Weapons Set A and B did arrive today, so now I have everything to load my Phantom with.

Well, I am getting ready to meet the local IPMS Chapter for the first time.  I am looking forward to meeting everyone.

Maybe that kit will arrive tomorrow?

Ken

Hey Ken,

Since you have everything else, you could build the first "stealth" Rhino!

Glenn

"I read in a story on the drone Phantoms in National Air & Space Magazine, that it took four Raptors to knock down a single Phantom when it the exercise was in earnest. She's one tough old bird, and will be around for a while yet!

Cheers, M/TB379"

...think how many they would have needed if she was allowed to shoot back!

Glenn

P.S.- A little progress this week. The nose of Phamputty smoothed out quite well after a couple of layers of putty. I still have a concave area that needs to be filled again. Then it's off to make an IR sensor for the nose. Seems like the more I do, the more there is to do.

Ish47guy

Bockscar, I one saw a pretty simple & effective way to dress up featureless interiors of J-79 nozzles. Take thin sheet styrene & cut rectangular strips about the same dimensions as the petals on the exterior, & glue them in the same position on the inside as they are on the outside.

Rock n' Roll Pal:

A little chop here:

A little chop there:

A little turkey feather ina' you unnerwear:

Okay Ish, far from "scale", but you were right, it does dress the turkey, ahem, Rhino, up a bit.

I did straighten some of those feathers out, reminded me of gapping spark plugs, 

she won't be perfect, she won't be sharp, but she'll be pretty! - from 20 feet! -and a few

Thunderbolt379

Anonymous, I could't agree more... But take heart. While it's true that one Raptor took out twelve Tomcats in simulated battle, I read in a story on the drone Phantoms in National Air & Space Magazine, that it took four Raptors to knock down a single Phantom when it the exercise was in earnest. She's one tough old bird, and will be around for a while yet!

Cheers, M/TB379

LONG LIVE THE RHINO!!!

Thunderbolt379

Anonymous, I could't agree more... But take heart. While it's true that one Raptor took out twelve Tomcats in simulated battle, I read in a story on the drone Phantoms in National Air & Space Magazine, that it took four Raptors to knock down a single Phantom when it the exercise was in earnest. She's one tough old bird, and will be around for a while yet!

Cheers, M/TB379

LONG LIVE THE RHINO!!!

Hang on Ken,

hang on, been there, then the dang postman squishafied my airplane, lucky to be out'a jail, poor postman, never should'a shuishafied my airplaine......

As my friend used to say, it's there all right, someone just needs to go out the back and check....

I think we have a new designation for the Phantom II.  Somebod call the DoD.  You have created the Phantom II F-4P(for putty). lol  Actually I like the cans.  Really nice for almost all scratch.

Rich

Bockscar

 

Okay Ish, far from "scale", but you were right, it does dress the turkey, ahem, Rhino, up a bit.

I did straighten some of those feathers out, reminded me of gapping spark plugs, 

she won't be perfect, she won't be sharp, but she'll be pretty! - from 20 feet! -and a few

 

mississippivol

 

Hey Ken,

Since you have everything else, you could build the first "stealth" Rhino!

Glenn

Hi Glenn,

That was just too funny!  I got a good chuckle out of that.

Well I met some really nice people last night at the local IPMS meeting.  Almost all of the members had served in the military.  One member had served in the Korean War as an F-86 pilot.  I will be definitely picking his brain in the future.  He also flew the U-2 and the SR-71 Blackbird.  Very cool indeed.  Another member flew several different helicopters in Vietnam.  Another great source of information.  Very nice group of people.  I will be coming back next month.

The mail has not come yet so I am still hoping the kit will show up today.  If not, I will start building my paint booth.

Ken

Thunderbolt379

Anonymous, I could't agree more... But take heart. While it's true that one Raptor took out twelve Tomcats in simulated battle, I read in a story on the drone Phantoms in National Air & Space Magazine, that it took four Raptors to knock down a single Phantom when it the exercise was in earnest. She's one tough old bird, and will be around for a while yet!

Cheers, M/TB379

It isn't as easy to knock down a drone as most people think.  For one thing, the shooters are using missiles with inert warheads, so you don't get a big explosion like a real missile would.  Second, the drone is releasing chaff and flares to spoil the missile lock on.  Third, the drone is using passive ECM to jam the radar guided missiles.  Fourth the drone is making very tight high G turns to avoid the missile. 

There was a F-100D that flew as a drone at Tyndall AFB that survived 50 missions.  It was retired after its 50th flight.  A F-102A flew over forty missions before it was killed by a F-4E firing a AIM-7 which scored a direct hit.  A F-106 flew over twenty flights before it was killed by a F-15C Eagle with a AIM-9. 

Bocks,

Those tailfeathers look good!

Glenn

berny13

Thunderbolt379:

Anonymous, I could't agree more... But take heart. While it's true that one Raptor took out twelve Tomcats in simulated battle, I read in a story on the drone Phantoms in National Air & Space Magazine, that it took four Raptors to knock down a single Phantom when it the exercise was in earnest. She's one tough old bird, and will be around for a while yet!

Cheers, M/TB379

 

It isn't as easy to knock down a drone as most people think.  For one thing, the shooters are using missiles with inert warheads, so you don't get a big explosion like a real missile would.  Second, the drone is releasing chaff and flares to spoil the missile lock on.  Third, the drone is using passive ECM to jam the radar guided missiles.  Fourth the drone is making very tight high G turns to avoid the missile. 

There was a F-100D that flew as a drone at Tyndall AFB that survived 50 missions.  It was retired after its 50th flight.  A F-102A flew over forty missions before it was killed by a F-4E firing a AIM-7 which scored a direct hit.  A F-106 flew over twenty flights before it was killed by a F-15C Eagle with a AIM-9. 

Hi Berny,

I am just curious.  Are these drones being controlled from the ground or from another aircraft?

Ken

I had all intentions of sanding down the scab patches on my Phantom Friday.  I got a call from a friend Thursday that was making a flight to Houston Texas and asked if I wanted to tag along.  We have made many flights together, sharing throttle time.  He told me he was taking the new company aircraft, a Cessna Citation Mustang model 510.  I jumped at the chance and met him at the Tallassee airport early Friday morning where we filed a flight plan.  We had to go on a weather hold for almost an hour before conditions allowed us to take off.  He told me to take the left seat as he is a instructor pilot, that way I could get some legal jet time hours.  Let me tell you, that is one high flying a jet.  It was my first time behind the controls of a jet since my retirement flight in a F-4E Phantom.  I flew it to Houston and again on the return trip.  He will let me know the next time he takes it on a trip so I might be able to fly it again. 

Son Of Medicine Man

berny13:

Thunderbolt379:

Anonymous, I could't agree more... But take heart. While it's true that one Raptor took out twelve Tomcats in simulated battle, I read in a story on the drone Phantoms in National Air & Space Magazine, that it took four Raptors to knock down a single Phantom when it the exercise was in earnest. She's one tough old bird, and will be around for a while yet!

Cheers, M/TB379

 

It isn't as easy to knock down a drone as most people think.  For one thing, the shooters are using missiles with inert warheads, so you don't get a big explosion like a real missile would.  Second, the drone is releasing chaff and flares to spoil the missile lock on.  Third, the drone is using passive ECM to jam the radar guided missiles.  Fourth the drone is making very tight high G turns to avoid the missile. 

There was a F-100D that flew as a drone at Tyndall AFB that survived 50 missions.  It was retired after its 50th flight.  A F-102A flew over forty missions before it was killed by a F-4E firing a AIM-7 which scored a direct hit.  A F-106 flew over twenty flights before it was killed by a F-15C Eagle with a AIM-9. 

 

Hi Berny,

I am just curious.  Are these drones being controlled from the ground or from another aircraft?

Ken

From the ground.  A safety aircraft will go with the shooters.  The shooters will carry inert missiles and the safety aircraft will carry live missiles.  If a drone is hit and is damaged so bad it can't make the trip home, the safety aircraft will kill it with a live missile.

Bocks, I'm glad my suggestion came in handy.  Very nice job.  If I didn't already have the right set of Aires nozzles in the stash, I would have done that on the kit I'm building now.

I just noticed you are a Canuck.  I spent two years in Afghanistan working with the RCAF on their Chinooks.  Good bunch of people to work with, & I enjoyed the time I was there.

From the Cybermodeler site. Said it was an F-4F update, but the pics are of an "E". Hope they help.

Glenn

http://www.cybermodeler.com/aircraft/f-4/f-4f_walk.shtml

Going out as a drone seems like a sad end for a warbird, but it seems bit more dignified than ending service sitting in a museum or stored in an Arizona bone yard.

Berny -- I figured it was something like that, with no pilot the drone can be flown to the airframe tolerances, which gives it an extra edge, over and above the countermeasures, it never had as a manned plane (not that I'm advocating taking the pilot out of the loop, the proposed pilotless fighters give me the horrors at many levels...)

Great stroke of luck flying that jet! I can only imagine what a rush that must have been! My sister in law has been with DOT Alaska as an aiport inspector for many, many years (after retiring as a USAF crew chief on F-4Es at Elmendorf) and she got to do the same in a Lear out to the Aleutians a few years ago. She once rode backseat with the Blue Angels too!

Jimbot -- good point! An old warrior gets to go out in battle, leading a crowd of young bucks a merry dance all over the sky before going up to the happy hunting ground in a blaze of glory.

Heads-up to Luft builders -- I think I just found exact matches for RAL colours in the Revell Acrylics range! More news as it comes to hand...

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Rich that made me laugh!!!

I've managed to sand a bit of the putty off, but found I still need about .003" more on one wing

F4P for sure!

Sparrowhyperion

I think we have a new designation for the Phantom II.  Somebod call the DoD.  You have created the Phantom II F-4P(for putty). lol  Actually I like the cans.  Really nice for almost all scratch.

Rich

 

 

Bockscar:

 

 

Okay Ish, far from "scale", but you were right, it does dress the turkey, ahem, Rhino, up a bit.

I did straighten some of those feathers out, reminded me of gapping spark plugs, 

she won't be perfect, she won't be sharp, but she'll be pretty! - from 20 feet! -and a few " alt="" onload="resizeImage(this);" />" alt="" onload="resizeImage(this);" />

 

 

 

mississippivol

Bocks,

Those tailfeathers look good!

Glenn

Many thanks Glenn, by the way the shots may look a bit out of focus, but the fogginess is actually MEK fumes!

Hooray!  Hooray!  My kit finally showed up today!

I am currently working on a laptop (I do that for extra cash).  As soon as I get it finished I am clearing off the work bench and starting on my Phantom!  I can't wait!

Ken

jimbot58

Going out as a drone seems like a sad end for a warbird, but it seems bit more dignified than ending service sitting in a museum or stored in an Arizona bone yard.

If you're a warrior and you gotta die, agreed, it's best to go out as a warrior.

Here's a really bad end to some Rhinos:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://members.chello.nl/m.waterloo/images/f-4f/f-4f_scrapped.jpg&imgrefurl=http://members.chello.nl/m.waterloo/f4f-panel.html&h=441&w=640&sz=105&tbnid=cIIhZAWKQqYXyM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Df-4f&zoom=1&q=f-4f&usg=__6b48ACT4Klm4qPJHlAPueZ-Seqg=&sa=X&ei=rV87TYWyLsKB8gb9lM3rCg&ved=0CEYQ9QEwAw

Ish47guy

Bocks, I'm glad my suggestion came in handy.  Very nice job.  If I didn't already have the right set of Aires nozzles in the stash, I would have done that on the kit I'm building now.

 

I just noticed you are a Canuck.  I spent two years in Afghanistan working with the RCAF on their Chinooks.  Good bunch of people to work with, & I enjoyed the time I was there.

Thanks Ish, I'm just chamfering the edges a bit to clean them up a bit.

And thanks for helping keep those choppers operational Ish! They saved  a lot of soldiers from IED exposure. We had three RCAF in the family, all retired now.

Son Of Medicine Man

Hooray!  Hooray!  My kit finally showed up today!

I am currently working on a laptop (I do that for extra cash).  As soon as I get it finished I am clearing off the work bench and starting on my Phantom!  I can't wait!

Ken

Thank goodness Ken, I almost couldn't take the suspense any more myself.

I remember when I was kid, we'ld order Estes rockets in the spring, and most of the summer would go by before we got the darn things!

My  Revell F-4B is in 1/48 scale.

Constructor