The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

Son Of Medicine Man

Hi "O",

I would be more than happy to help you with the F-101.  Unfortunately my Dad would have been the person to answer questions, but he passed away a year ago.  But I have spent a lot of time researching the F-101.  I would not consider myself an expert but I would be happy to answer questions that I do have the answer to.  I also have a few pictures that my Dad took while he was TDY in Vietnam of the RF-101C.  It was early in the U.S. build up, between August through November of 1964, so the camouflage was not being used yet.  I am going to use them to build mine when my skills are better.

Ken

I have many Voodoos. I have some very old Voodoos. I pulled a bird's nest out of a retired Voodoo's smoker one day.

Where in Henschell is the Trumpeter 1:24 Voodoo? Hey I built the Hasegawa/AMT RF-101C back in the early 70's, and still have a small piece or two hanging around. Yeah, if i ever become decent at anything beyond sawing and sanding, i may want to attempt building one. 

You know Ken, starting a GB with your dad's photos would be very cool.

Bockscar

 

redraider56:

 

Been following this thread for awhile and have been admiring the great work....well it's time for me to join!  I just picked up an old 1/48 Monogram F-4J off ebay that I would like to enter into this build.  Extra details and markings are yet to be determined.  I also plan to use this as a platform for my first scribing job

 

 

Hey Redraider, Mike is a really uptight guy, not sure he appreciates the tardy!!! lol

You've come to the right place, this is where "Scratch Happens!"

Looking forward to your build.

LOL well in that case.......

Nah, The Phantom was always aesthetically pleasing to me and I'm excited to actually build one now.  I won't be able to start it until June though due to college and a couple other projects

redraider56 -- welcome aboard! Hey, we're just into the fourth month of a year-long build, there's always room for new recruits! Page 1 updated!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

After a little bit of searching I've decided on these markings for my bird (using the Superscale sheet)

Matt, nice choice of markings. I built one a few years ago for my friend who was in the air the day of that Mig kill, he was a pilot in VF-31 on that cruse. Those decals are terriffic and you will like them a lot. He flew that particular plane many time also. Today that airframe is at the air and space museum in DC in Marine Corps markings. Her is how mine turned out

On my front I finally have some progress pics to share. I just finished the pit and I used the Eduard PE set. A nice set but does not cover everything which is not a bad thing as the detail in the Tamiya pit is pretty good especially in 1/32.

here is my work on the tail and burner cans. Still have a lot more to do here to weather it up

and finally a pic of the inside fuselage showing the trunks and engine placement

Thanks for looking and all comments welcome. Hope to have more progress soon

Steve

Steve- That is some stunning work in the office, especially that IP- WOW!!!

You VF-31 bird is a great looking build as well.

Awesome! I'll be lucky if mine turns out half as good as yours

Thanks Frank, I knew you were in this build and its good to see ya here.

Matt, thanks. Its also a great thing when you have the pilot of the actuall aircraft as a referance to build by. He has a lot of great pics of his bird and this one. He let me borrow his album to use as references

Steve

Cool.  That's one thing I always like to find when building; pictures of the actual bird.  I already found one picture of it landing on the Saratoga, but am still in the early stages of my research

I'm still here...LOL!!   Got sidetracked by life, a great model deal, and just a touch of procrastination.  Have a good start on my RoG F-4F.  Good fit, but looks different being molded in two colors. (bought an extra kit, and it is molded in all one color)  Have the main fuselage, wings, and forward fuselage assembled.  Hopefully I can figure out how to post pics again.    Still trying to find seamless intakes for my 1/48 Hasegawa F-4J.

Thanks Steve!  Hoping to get started on my build here in the next month or two.

The Mike- Is your F-4J the one with raised or engraved panel lines?  If it is one with engraved panel lines, there are some seamless intakes here.  I have never used the 1/48 Phantom intakes, but the 1/32 F/A-18C intakes I bought from them fit better than the kit supplied parts.

I bought a set of 1/48 KMC intakes.  They somehow don't seem quite right to me though.  Here's an image so you can see what I mean..

What do you guys think?

Daywalker

Thanks Steve!  Hoping to get started on my build here in the next month or two.

The Mike- Is your F-4J the one with raised or engraved panel lines?  If it is one with engraved panel lines, there are some seamless intakes here.  I have never used the 1/48 Phantom intakes, but the 1/32 F/A-18C intakes I bought from them fit better than the kit supplied parts.

Bockscar

Son Of Medicine Man:

Hi "O",

I would be more than happy to help you with the F-101.  Unfortunately my Dad would have been the person to answer questions, but he passed away a year ago.  But I have spent a lot of time researching the F-101.  I would not consider myself an expert but I would be happy to answer questions that I do have the answer to.  I also have a few pictures that my Dad took while he was TDY in Vietnam of the RF-101C.  It was early in the U.S. build up, between August through November of 1964, so the camouflage was not being used yet.  I am going to use them to build mine when my skills are better.

Ken

 

I have many Voodoos. I have some very old Voodoos. I pulled a bird's nest out of a retired Voodoo's smoker one day.

Where in Henschell is the Trumpeter 1:24 Voodoo? Hey I built the Hasegawa/AMT RF-101C back in the early 70's, and still have a small piece or two hanging around. Yeah, if i ever become decent at anything beyond sawing and sanding, i may want to attempt building one. 

You know Ken, starting a GB with your dad's photos would be very cool.

Hi Dominic!

I will definitely do that!  And I agree with you, it would be wonderful if Trumpeter came out with a 1/24 Voodoo.  And as you probably already know, the Voodoo was a precursor to the F-4 Phantom.  I intend to build a NMF version of the F-101B, an RF-101C, and a F-101B in ADC grey, all in 1/48.  I have a conversion kit from Bill Koster that converts the Revell 1/48 F-101B into a RF-101C.  I have also found but not yet purchased another conversion kit from C&H Aero that is resin (Bill's is vacuform).

Ken

Bockscar

Son Of Medicine Man:

Hi Dominic!

Yes, I highly recommend that book.  You will not be disappointed!  By the way, your static face turbine blades look very nice.  That is too bad about that piece coming out on your part.  Are you going to send it back or ask for a replacement?

Ken 

 

Hey Ken, a guy who spends 10s of hours resuscitating a dead Flugel would consider it well below his honour to return a mildly defective resin part (another 4-5 weeks waiting Ken....). Besides, in continuing with my "blame it all on Berny theme" of late, I've decided to take his leadership yet again, and source the Aires smoker set he bought. Hey, if worst comes to worst, I'll have and extra set of J-79 faces.

Those static face turbine blades are by Rhino, so how authentic can you get? Actually, they will look great once they are cleaned up. I hope the originals are cast metal, that mold needs replacing.

Ken what page did you post your book source, is that the one I saw way, way, back with the KC's view on the cover?

Hi Dominic,

Here are the links to the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Phantom-Guide-F-4-Exposed/dp/097950645X 

http://www.reidairpublishing.com/products/RAP06.html 

And here are some links with reviews:

http://www.hyperscale.com/2010/reviews/books/modernphantomguidebookreviewdm_1.htm 

http://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/modern-phantom-guide-f-4-phantom-exposed 

Ken

Bockscar

 

TarnShip:

 

"It's true, the demon looks like a sibling alright."

The original concept was a follow on to the Demon, that is why it was F3H-G/H.

McDonnell was up to the same things with that designation as North American was with the FJ-4, and Grumman with it's "F9F-9" Tiger (not kidding)

some of the aircraft got totally new designations, and some slid on by like the FJ-4 did (very little in common with the FJ-3's)

and yes, if an Air Force and a Navy tractor driver each got drunk and crashed the Voodoo into a Demon,,,,,,,the AH-1/F4H-1 would very likely come out when another guy came along and repaired them, lol

Rex

 

 

Holly cow, Rex, look what they got when they sobered up:

Demon meets Voodoo,

Dominic

Ken, back around page 28 we were talking about the origins of the F-4. I'm still trying to collect a few gems from the 50's.

Son Of Medicine Man

 

Bockscar:

 

 

Son Of Medicine Man:

Hi Dominic!

Yes, I highly recommend that book.  You will not be disappointed!  By the way, your static face turbine blades look very nice.  That is too bad about that piece coming out on your part.  Are you going to send it back or ask for a replacement?

Ken 

 

 

Hey Ken, a guy who spends 10s of hours resuscitating a dead Flugel would consider it well below his honour to return a mildly defective resin part (another 4-5 weeks waiting Ken....). Besides, in continuing with my "blame it all on Berny theme" of late, I've decided to take his leadership yet again, and source the Aires smoker set he bought. Hey, if worst comes to worst, I'll have and extra set of J-79 faces.

Those static face turbine blades are by Rhino, so how authentic can you get? Actually, they will look great once they are cleaned up. I hope the originals are cast metal, that mold needs replacing.

Ken what page did you post your book source, is that the one I saw way, way, back with the KC's view on the cover?

 

 

Hi Dominic,

Here are the links to the book:

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Phantom-Guide-F-4-Exposed/dp/097950645X 

http://www.reidairpublishing.com/products/RAP06.html 

And here are some links with reviews:

http://www.hyperscale.com/2010/reviews/books/modernphantomguidebookreviewdm_1.htm 

http://web.ipmsusa3.org/content/modern-phantom-guide-f-4-phantom-exposed 

Ken

Many thanks for that Ken, saved me a bundle of time. The Voodoo was the little plane my parents bought me back in the early 60's after a nasty teacher confiscated my "Bomber Group" off my desk. (heck, they were in perfect formation, with the B-58 on point!)

Here's the same kit, one I bought from Alan:

Here's the tiny Voodoo, same mold, recast in the 80's, I don't want to build the old kit until I hit 85 - lol:

I'll resist the urge to continue and not risk drawing the ire of our gracious host Mike, by posting my Voodoo life history here.

Tommy's site is a great place to hang out,,,,,,not just for Phantom info, but for any NavAir info and drawings

My eyes keep straying to the little Blue old Revell Phantoms I have in some bags here,,,,,,,thinking about that mock up and one of each of the noses on trailers,,,,,,,I think it's because of that blue plastic they are molded in

I'm resisting the temptation though, the J-79s on trailers are far higher on the "to do" list,,,,,,,,I have to justify taking tons of pics of them while Anne waits patiently, you know

"do you really need to lay on your back and take pictures of the Bottom of those old engines??"

Rex

TarnShip

Tommy's site is a great place to hang out,,,,,,not just for Phantom info, but for any NavAir info and drawings

My eyes keep straying to the little Blue old Revell Phantoms I have in some bags here,,,,,,,thinking about that mock up and one of each of the noses on trailers,,,,,,,I think it's because of that blue plastic they are molded in

I'm resisting the temptation though, the J-79s on trailers are far higher on the "to do" list,,,,,,,,I have to justify taking tons of pics of them while Anne waits patiently, you know

"do you really need to lay on your back and take pictures of the Bottom of those old engines??"

Rex

Hey Rex, I'll bite! If you've got shots of that J-79 from the oilpan jockey's view, I'm in!

I still marvel at the actuator flanges on the feathers, reminds me of the inside of my BarBeQue, and yes, I smoke everyting with JP.

I tried to find Tommy's but I seemed to have trashed it and can't work backwards of the photo. If you can provide I have a can of JP BBQ sauce with your name on it. -

What really got to me was the tolerances of the turbine blades and that so much in the engine was 'loose' or in a frictional situation. I worked at Whirlpool and heard a story about a runaway rinse cycle, no big deal when compared to J-79, but when I think about the RPM's and a SAM, that's a sandwhich i am happy not to have for lunch!

BTW ",,,,,,,thinking about that mock up and one of each of the noses on trailers,,,,,,," was that the original mock up, and did they have options for the nose on display?

Tommy's two blogs

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/

http://thanlont.blogspot.com/

Replica in Scale (some Naval, mostly Air Force)

http://replicainscale.blogspot.com/

some old FSM writer or another (hahaha)

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

mine's in my sig, but it's just getting started,,,,mostly it's just me "being a Jarhead" so far

I know I saw those noses in a pic somewhere,,,,,but, I sure can't find them now, just the drawings from the sides,,,,,,,I have a ton of my photos in a DB with a number to finding them,,,,,,but, I'm not even halfway done with that project yet

Rex

Ok so I've been doing a liittle bit of research on the Monogram kit and numerous reviews and builds I've read have said that are inaccuracies with the kit, however they fail to define the inaccuracies.  So has anybody built the J kit and could you possibly share what the inaccuracies with it are?

Matt -- I have a couple in my stash but never got round to them. Points I know for sure:

• Fit issues, especially around the wingroots/intakes/underside area
• Obtrusive canopy hinges for the open option
• Incomplete afterburner detail

The full list is probably pretty lengthy, but there'll be some AMs available (I'd always change out the decals for Monogram, certainly their older product's decals were attrocious), and the fit issues generally call for a bit of clever engineering with styrene and CA, spacers, shims and such. Probably the biggest issue for me is the raised panel detailing, but in general Monogram seems to be a fairly hefty piece of plastic that will accept scribing, cutting and adjusting pretty well. I have one I picked up cheap, bagged, no decals or instructions, to be canibalised for other projects -- fancy scratchbuilds looking for tanks and cockpits, that sort of thing. There was a plane in a 1969 SF series in which the studio model clearly had a Phanton vertical tail, so that one is out there on the horizon too...

Rex -- thanks for the plug man!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Thunderbolt379

Matt -- I have a couple in my stash but never got round to them. Points I know for sure:

• Fit issues, especially around the wingroots/intakes/underside area
• Obtrusive canopy hinges for the open option
• Incomplete afterburner detail

The full list is probably pretty lengthy, but there'll be some AMs available (I'd always change out the decals for Monogram, certainly their older product's decals were attrocious), and the fit issues generally call for a bit of clever engineering with styrene and CA, spacers, shims and such. Probably the biggest issue for me is the raised panel detailing, but in general Monogram seems to be a fairly hefty piece of plastic that will accept scribing, cutting and adjusting pretty well. I have one I picked up cheap, bagged, no decals or instructions, to be canibalised for other projects -- fancy scratchbuilds looking for tanks and cockpits, that sort of thing. There was a plane in a 1969 SF series in which the studio model clearly had a Phanton vertical tail, so that one is out there on the horizon too...

Rex -- thanks for the plug man!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

I bought this kit on ebay a couple days ago and the box looks pretty rough.  However, looking at the pictures all sprues are still sealed in the bags except for the clear sprue and I'm 99% sure everything is there.  I'm not sure at how old the kit itself is but I figured the decals would be a liability nonetheless and I already have a Superscale sheet in the mail.

The fit issues is why I plan on rescribing it.  I figured I would be sanding alot and would lose all that raised detail, so we'll see how that goes.  As for the issues themselves I've dealt with some bad kits before (Revells P-61) and hopefully I should be able to handle this one.  I'm guessing the cockpit might be void of a few details so I'll probably add some resin ejection seats.

Matt -- sounds like you have a gameplan with all the techniques in place. These Monograms can be very spectacular if done well and compete with Hasegawa on the shelf -- think the kind of stuff Pat Hawkey does in FSM, clever paint and scribing does a great deal. They can look great, and I've alway thought the cockpits were a strongpoint of vintage Mionogram, not completely detailed by any means but with careful painting they can look great. I'll be watching this build with great interest!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

"LOL well in that case.......

Nah, The Phantom was always aesthetically pleasing to me and I'm excited to actually build one now.  I won't be able to start it until June though due to college and a couple other projects"

Red,

"Aesthetically pleasing"? Yep, you belong here with us!

Glenn

I'm hoping the cockpit will be good, I'm a big cockpit guy and like showing em off.  I agree about the careful painting idea.

I guess I should say too that I won't be starting this build til the summer.  College and other builds will prevent me from starting this project until late May, early June

TarnShip

Tommy's two blogs

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/

http://thanlont.blogspot.com/

Replica in Scale (some Naval, mostly Air Force)

http://replicainscale.blogspot.com/

some old FSM writer or another (hahaha)

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

mine's in my sig, but it's just getting started,,,,mostly it's just me "being a Jarhead" so far

 

I know I saw those noses in a pic somewhere,,,,,but, I sure can't find them now, just the drawings from the sides,,,,,,,I have a ton of my photos in a DB with a number to finding them,,,,,,but, I'm not even halfway done with that project yet

Rex

Thanks Rex, as I'm about to re-plast the nose of my Flugel after all of the pre-plasty, anything to help the schnozz helps.

Well, sell tickets to your DB, i might be your first customer! I saw a bit of your posts, and i understand your view point. I appreciate the manufacturing process, and realize that people had to go towork each day and make the mold fit the blue print or drink at the cooler.

I had a job once, way back in the early 70's, and I was bending Stainless Steel tubing, mostly 3/8" and 1/4" for furnace apps. When I see the fuel inlet S.S. assemblies on J-79's it brings back a lot of memories, "measure twice, bend once....now you owe us for another piece of S.S. dumpkoff..."

Hey I appreciate getting it right the first time, and the discipline of doing it the same way every time, but man, i shoulda' put that Flugel back into the regrind bin 'causin' I'ma not gettin' it right anytime!

You'll have whole Navy squadrons completed before I get this bird painted Rex!

i know this sounds sick, but I'm buying the resin stuff to help guide my scratch. I'll throw it into a Revell F once the smoke from my neuron (only one left) clears. I can't say I'm a total cheat, the mold makers have messed up a bit themselves, so, as they say, no one is perfect, just fect.

Thanks for the references, will look them up.

redraider56

I'm hoping the cockpit will be good, I'm a big cockpit guy and like showing em off.  I agree about the careful painting idea.

I guess I should say too that I won't be starting this build til the summer.  College and other builds will prevent me from starting this project until late May, early June

Oh yeah...Term papers....Yup.....problem sets....Uh Huh......Essays due.....Squally dunder wawa......readings.....library.....lecture notes covered in Coke and Mac and Cheese....Assignments......Yickitty.....FFFFn-4444......Homework.....uh.....Co-Efficiants of......Vygodsky's theory......that's it, styrene!!! That's it!!! Styrene!!!!

In your mind, you've already started pal!

Oh man, you are in Henenengerweben Space pal....Surely you can give this nonsense up just long enough to squeeeeeze by the next month?

All the best on your studies! You'll be so happy it's over we probably won't hear from you until July!

If not, no worries, I always found styrene more interesting than exams.

After everything the government said would warp our youth, it was Plastic Models all along that lead our future astray!

It's always something...

I don't know if any of you remember my telling how the inboard gear doors had been lost over the 15+ years that my "G" sat partially built and I am using a set scavanged from an Italeri kit I don't intend to build? It seems there were a set of actuator arms that must have been attached to the missing doors as they are not on the sprues! Not sure if I will try some stretched sprue to fabricate some or I might be better off to use a strip of brass, maybe. They do seem to have some curves that might be too much for plastic.

Will I ever get through this recycled kit?

P.S. Before you ask: No, none were included with the Italeri kit!

You want some J-79 pictures.  Here are a few.

Matt, the biggest problem with the Monogram J kit is the rear cockpit.  They used the same parts from their F-4C/D kit for the J kit.  Totally wrong but at one time there was an AM cockpit available but I am not sure if it is still in production.  Other than a few nit noi small errors it can be built into a very good model.