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The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

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  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 6:35 PM

Glenn -- that's a fantastic resource and I've bookmarked it immediately. Now the hunt is on for any matches or mixing ratios to derive those FS or RAL equivalents in model paints...

Cheers, Mike (thumbing through the MM list with no luck and seaching everywhere for the old Humbrol comparison chart that had an RAL section...)

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 6:52 PM

While looking around for detail info I found this site.  It has a ton of photos of just about every Phantom varient and model you can think of from various services.  Along with a lot of other planes.  It looks like a great place to get a good look at detailing.  I have a couple of ideas already for some scratch extra detail from looking at details there.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/

 

Thunderbolt379

Glenn -- that's a fantastic resource and I've bookmarked it immediately. Now the hunt is on for any matches or mixing ratios to derive those FS or RAL equivalents in model paints...

Cheers, Mike (thumbing through the MM list with no luck and seaching everywhere for the old Humbrol comparison chart that had an RAL section...)

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 7:17 PM

Rich, if you go to forums, jets, and look at the pinned topics, there's an F-4 builder's guide there

I think it can be read without being a forum member, I'm not sure on that though

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 7:42 PM

Thanks.  I'll check it out.

 

TarnShip

Rich, if you go to forums, jets, and look at the pinned topics, there's an F-4 builder's guide there

I think it can be read without being a forum member, I'm not sure on that though

Rex

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 9:11 PM

jimbot58

 

 

 

A scanned copy of the decal sheet. Appears that many data decals are included and instructions warn that they are recommended for experienced modelers only. Note that the white is there around the crosses-they just didn't show up on the scan.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/282/decalsa.jpg

I also have 2 sheets of Phantom data decals (AM) that I bought years ago as a close-out. As to the stab beef up plate....I guess I don't know a lot of Phantom lore to be sure of what that is....

 

Yeah, I'm looking forward to stenciling my Hawaii Air National Guard bird:

 

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 9:22 PM

I love that decal sheet! Wonder if i could buy one from Revell...?

Just won two more Hasegawa 48s on eBay today, a -G and a -C/D, to join the stash! Oh, and a(nother) 1:72 RF-4C...

Cheers, M/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted by somenewguy on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 10:08 PM

Kustommodeler1: looks like you and I are doing the same kit. lol

You doing the C or D?

 

At the end of the day one's work may be completed but one's education never!
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 10:42 PM

Sparrow and Rex,

Thanks for the ARC link and location. That's a great resource.

Glenn

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Wednesday, January 5, 2011 10:55 PM

Thought I'd throw this on for a little inspiration....

  • Member since
    June 2009
Posted by jimbot58 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 8:52 AM

Thunderbolt379

Glenn -- that's a fantastic resource and I've bookmarked it immediately. Now the hunt is on for any matches or mixing ratios to derive those FS or RAL equivalents in model paints...

Cheers, Mike (thumbing through the MM list with no luck and seaching everywhere for the old Humbrol comparison chart that had an RAL section...)

I do have Testors/Italeri's mixing guide for those colors from the instructions. I was just hoping to find something already mixed. I will copy them here later but have no time now, I must be off to the slave mill.

*******

On my workbench now:

It's all about classic cars now!

Why can't I find the "Any" key on my keyboard?

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 9:27 AM

kustommodeler1

As to the stab beef up plate....I guess I don't know a lot of Phantom lore to be sure of what that is....

A stab beef up plate is the wedge shaped scab patch located on top of the horizontal stab just where the four panels attach to the center torque box.  The torque box is a one piece "H" shaped milled titanium structure laying on its side which forms the main load carrying capability of the stab.  The beef up plate was a quick fix for small stress cracks forming on the torque box.  It worked so well aircraft started coming off of the assembly line with the beef up plate installed.

Another quick fix to a problem was the addition of beef up plates on the fuel dumps located just outboard of the ailerons next to the outboard wing section.  It was found that the fuel dump standpipes were flexing under high G loads and causing the attaching screws to elongate the mounting holes.  A beef up plate was installed to reinforce that area to prevent flexing.  This mod was done in 1976/1977 time frame. 

That is your Phantom lesson for today.  Test will follow tomorrow.   Geeked  

 

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 9:56 AM

TarnShip

oh, and you could make a pair of TERs, maybe, out of a MER,,,,,,,,that's how they were "invented" in the first place, by cutting the MER in half,,,,,,,,,just read that on the Replica in Scale blog a few days ago

TER's were in use long before the MER's came on the scene.  A MER is nothing more than two TER's with an extension added.  Someone gave you the wrong information.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 10:08 AM

I ordered a set of dry transfer panel markings for my Phantom.  My jet was fresh out of the factory and had every panel marked in black.  It is going to be fun getting all of those on.   Surprise 

I had an old friend stop by.  Due to the changing weather, Arthur Ridas has decided to visit for a few days.  I am on hold with sanding until he goes away.   Sad 

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Thursday, January 6, 2011 10:39 AM

nuts !! Berney,,,,,,,,I guess I will take his other stuff "with a grain of salt" from now on, then

with this MER/TER error, and the Skyhawk errors he keeps repeating,,,,,his "info" is on the "shakey internet ground" from here on out with me,,,,,,,he does post some great pictures there, though

Don't, repeat, don't send Uncle Arthur over my way when his visit with you is done,,,,,,he comes around and bothers my Tingers enough on his own

sorry to hear that, it bites some days, eh?

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 11:22 AM

TarnShip

nuts !! Berney,,,,,,,,I guess I will take his other stuff "with a grain of salt" from now on, then

with this MER/TER error, and the Skyhawk errors he keeps repeating,,,,,his "info" is on the "shakey internet ground" from here on out with me,,,,,,,he does post some great pictures there, though

Don't, repeat, don't send Uncle Arthur over my way when his visit with you is done,,,,,,he comes around and bothers my Tingers enough on his own

sorry to hear that, it bites some days, eh?

Rex

Ask that guy if he has ever heard of an EMER (Expanded Multiple Ejector Rack) which could hold up to nine bombs.  It was tested on the B-52 pylon and would come un glued after getting airborne.  They tried loading nine MK-117's but it wouldn't hold together.  It was found that by loading two MER's on the wing pylon the B-52 could carry twelve bombs.  The EMER never made it past the testing phase. 

I think Arthur is going to stay around for a few days, until the cold damp weather goes away.  Once it warms up he takes off and I don't see him until it turns cold and damp again.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Thursday, January 6, 2011 2:17 PM

Well my kit arrived just now./  I was pleasantly surprised.  It was supposed to be an old bagged kit but they sent me a still sealed in the box new kit. :)  Now as soon as the paint and my airbrush arrives, I can get started.

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Thursday, January 6, 2011 3:34 PM

here's the beginning of the "parts guide" I said I'd do for you guys,,,,,,,,,it's a little "NavAir centric" (what a shock, eh?)

before I post the combos observed part, I am going to re do it and check my work,,,,,,I noticed something in my digging for photos,,,,,,,,which only proves the point that the poster benefits from doing this stuff also, not just other modelers

okay, copied direct from my HD work notes pages

I am going to start with the F-4B's, because I need the info for a group build I am participating in

first off, I had to assign unique names to all the various parts, in order for Paradox to sort them correctly,,,,,so, some of the names won't "fit" your idea of F-4B parts,,,,but in the large list of all versions of Phantoms, they make sense

here are the three noses seen on F-4B

the "F-4C" nose (used on F-4B and F-4C)

user posted image

the "F-4B" nose (used on F-4B and F-4D)

user posted image

and the "F-4N" nose (used on F-4B and F-4N)

user posted image

there is a 4th nose, seen on some QF-4's, but, all the images I have of it are copyrighted,,,,,,,it has a clear front tip, with a camera? in it

next the tail tips

the "F-4A" tail tip with no ECM gear in it

user posted image

the "F-4B" tail tip with RHAW gear in one fairing at the rear

user posted image

the "F-4N" tail tip with RHAW gear in fairings at the front and the rear

user posted image

lastly, the Stabilators,,,,,early non-slotted

user posted image

and the later Slotted stab

user posted image

well, that pretty much shows the parts I'll be talking about,,,,,,,,,,all photos are USN/USMC credits, except the stab shots,,,,,,I had to use USAF for those

I'll need a bit of time to dig through all the pics again, if I say "six F-4B's",,,,,,I want to make sure there weren't seven or eight, lol

more later on

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Thursday, January 6, 2011 4:49 PM

Actually Mike/TB379, the kit was cast in 1985 and Kit #4754 has an RF-4E version, but it should be close in any case.

 I can't read the darn numbers due to glare, but you can view my goal at:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/70/F-4F_Phantom_flies_a_refueling_mission.jpg&imgrefurl=http://de.academic.ru/dic.nsf/dewiki/886033&h=983&w=1500&sz=1728&tbnid=1jPgnv5aTgWH8M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Df-4f%2Bphantom&zoom=1&q=f-4f+phantom&usg=__xuNH4VS60eioN2b0sjWeMWcaX8o=&sa=X&ei=u0QmTb7ANtGmnQeYovzoAQ&ved=0CB0Q9QEwAg

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Thursday, January 6, 2011 4:57 PM

Also, unless already posted, lot's of Phantom shots:

http://www.f-4.nl/

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 5:35 PM

Jimbot58 -- I would appreciate those mixing ratios for comaparison, I've been looking over a few bits and pieces and this is what I've got so far for the German 1970s regalia:

  • RAL 7012 -- Tam XF-24 or Humbrol 92 (topside bluegray)
  • RAL 8001 -- MM 2083 RLM 73 (matt equivalent of RAL 6014) (topside dark green)
  • RAL 7001 -- Tam XF-22, MM 1741, Hu 128 (Dk. Ghost Gray) (underside on some a/c)

Fujimi's suggestions for the Norm 72 scheme are as follows:

  • RAL 7012 -- Gunze H324
  • RAL 8001 -- Gunze H304 Olive Drab (Hu 155 equivalent)

The underside of some Norm 72 aircraft was silver, but was this natural metal or were they actually painted silver? Contextually, this is unclear.

The paints listed above are by no means matches, Tam, XF-22 is supposed to be a match for RLM 02, but it's not quite, and if you compare RLM 02 and Dark Ghost Grey in MM or Hu ranges they look pretty different. Gunze makes matches for some of the German paints but not all...

Does anyone know of a definitive mixing guide to the Norm 72 scheme???? Preferably in acrylics...

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Thursday, January 6, 2011 6:10 PM

Rex,

I was looking at your pictures and am amazed at the variety in just that one marque. Then I look at the Hasegawa "E" kit that I got for Christmas, the box photo of the real aircraft has no RHAW antennas on the tail fin tip. And it was a "Last of the Gunfighters" marked Phantom from 1992!

Glenn

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Thursday, January 6, 2011 6:47 PM

the E's can be fun to track down too, though

there were at least 3 tail tips on them, just in USAF service alone

is your bird an ARN-101 aircraft?,,,,,a big hump on the spine ahead of the UHF?,,,,,those had a tail with 2 very fine antennae sticking out the rear, and a smaller one out the top, at the same angle as the rudder hinge,,,,,,,about the size of fine stretched sprue, I'd say

haha, I got distracted, starting looking at tail tips just now,,,,,,a large assortment of those scattered about from the F-4A to the "Super Phantom",,,,,,,brake chute housings, also

lots of little details to play with

almost gone

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 7:19 PM

somenewguy

Kustommodeler1: looks like you and I are doing the same kit. lol

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll85/SNG_1991/P1000398.jpg

You doing the C or D?

 

 

Yeah, mine is the Revell Germany release Monogram mold kit # 04583. I'm going to do the "C" of the Hawaii ANG "I'IWI"

 

Great thing about this kit is they haven't changed anything from the original Monogram tooling at all, not even to upgrade the copyright molded into the plastic. It still says "MMI" on the stabilator from before the merger.

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 7:33 PM

Monogram released the C/D kit once in the "High Tech" series with some PE parts included, and markings of my home state, the Arkansas Air Guard Flying Razorbacks. This release was the one who's decals included the badge painted on the actual bird "TAC's Oldest F-4".

 

There was one on Oldmodelkits.com a while back and it got away......Sad

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 7:42 PM

KM1 -- what's the catalog number of that RoG edition of the old C/D???

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Thursday, January 6, 2011 8:15 PM

Does anyone happen to know if the British RAF F-4 FGR.2 uses the standard MK7 Martin Baker seats? I found some good resin ones and I just need to know if they are the ones the RAF used or if there is some other model they substituted.  Thanks.

 

Rich

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 9:04 PM

Rich -- I would be surprised if they didn't use the MB-7 series in the UK Phantoms, as Martin-Baker is a British company. They developed aircraft during WWII (such as the radical MB-5 fighter) and soon after pioneered escape systems in the west. I believe a derivative company (Baker-Martin),  founded before the diplomatic split with the communist world in the late 40s, built Soviet seats, but I couldn't swear to that as I heard it word of mouth a great many years ago...

Cheers, M/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Thursday, January 6, 2011 9:12 PM

Thanks Thunderbolt.

I asked because something in the instruction sheet mentioned different harnesses.  I picked up a set of Verlinden MK7s for $7 :)   Gotta love eBay.

 

Thunderbolt379

Rich -- I would be surprised if they didn't use the MB-7 series in the UK Phantoms, as Martin-Baker is a British company. They developed aircraft during WWII (such as the radical MB-5 fighter) and soon after pioneered escape systems in the west. I believe a derivative company (Baker-Martin),  founded before the diplomatic split with the communist world in the late 40s, built Soviet seats, but I couldn't swear to that as I heard it word of mouth a great many years ago...

Cheers, M/TB379

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 9:24 PM

Thunderbolt379

KM1 -- what's the catalog number of that RoG edition of the old C/D???

Cheers, Mike/TB379

The kit number is 04583. Released about a year and a half ago and is still in production, so decals through Revell website shouldn't be a problem. RoG takes a bit to get though, wait time worth it though.

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    June 2009
Posted by jimbot58 on Thursday, January 6, 2011 10:54 PM

Ok, here are the paint mixes for that Luftwaffe F-4F as listed in the instructions for the Italeri kit:

"Dark Green" FS 24064 (mix 3 parts FS 34079 Dark Green and 1 part #1147 Gloss Black)

"Gray" FS 26132 (mix 4 parts FS 36117 Gunship Gray with 1 part #1147 Gloss Black)

"Dark Gray" (mix equal parts FS 36118 and FS 37038 Flat Black)

I think that last one is for the walkways as it they would be flat instead of a satin sheen.

Also thanks for the info about those stab beef up plates. The are present on all my versions of my Phantoms.

*******

On my workbench now:

It's all about classic cars now!

Why can't I find the "Any" key on my keyboard?

 

 

 

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