ARMOR - Towed Gun Group Build (ends 7/1/04)

John,
very nice job on the Long Tom. details are great, and your explanation of the operation
are appreciated.

ShermanFireFly - saw your dio pics on the main Armor page.
very good concept & composition!
i agree w/ some of the folks there abt a bit of weathering for the gun, and a few
more details for the road, but a very impressive, especially for a first dio.
and i know, because i am trying to do my first dio w/ my GB Pak 40!
it is going to look very boring next to yours. you have done a good job capturing
the look of action.

Boyd,
i think you accidentally shortened the link (for the badge) when you copied it.
it goes on to an extra line in the properties window.
use this, and you should be fine:
http://www.image-hosting.net/images/messageboard/bugswarm/towedgunGB.jpg

not sure if AOL lets you host pics that can be hot linked,
but there are a lot of sites around that do.
RonUSMC hosts for a lot of folks here. the thread that explains the nusts & bolts is here:
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10017

a site that reviews free image hosts is here:
http://www.free-webhosts.com/free-image-hosting.php

the one i ended up using for quick posts
(no registration required)
http://www.imgspot.com/

please read http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20935
to see my full legal disclaimer. :-)

please post again if you are still having trouble, Boyd.
we want to see your build, so we will help!
:-)

happy 4th to all.

OK, still trucking & here is some progress.

The pic below is of the lower carriage from the back -- I need to finish this up so I can close the trails. You can see air brake lines running from the air cylinders into the lower carriage (& thus back to the bogeys) as well as the clevis I added for the travel lock cable.

Also note, in the recoil mech that I have carved the two nuts off the stop under the gun tube & glued them here to cover the holes. When the 155 was jacked out of battery, the recoil rods were disconnected from the stop , and held in to recoil mech by the nuts. When the gun was jacked back in battery, the recoil rods were refastened using those nuts to the stop (under the barrel/breech). Anyway, the kit (again) is OK in firing position, but not in travel mode ....


Here is a shot of the rear bogeys -- if you look closely you can see the brake lines coming out of the center section of the carraige & running to the air cylinders. The odd little loop was to give the lines flexibiity when the bogeys were raised/lowered. Other than that, the rear section is still a work in progress ...


And lastly, I made a base from a nice 1x4, routed a simple edge, threw on a couple coats of semi-gloss polyeurathane, made a label in PowerPoint, printed it on photo paper, & glued it down .... There are bits & pieces of the gun laying arround for the heck of it.

The equilibrator tubes are done with my ol' standby, Rub-n-Buff. Note the cable running up from the lower carriage to the traveling lock -- something the kit didn't include & I'm having to build ....

The light spot in the springs is belated fill of sink marks that I have ben staring at for weeks & just kept forgetting to fill until now !!!

Very nice, German under the PAK looks Supurb. Great job, keep up the good work.
Also Good job on your first dio!

I FINISHED!!
i hope im not too too late, but it has been a busy week
the pictures are here: http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23161

Hmmm, anyone know why I got the dreaded red x when I tried to add the group build badge to my signature?

Hey Guys!

Has everyone finished? I did not accomplish all that I had intended at the start of the group build, but I did finish my flakverling. I'm currently working on a small dio for it. I've tried to post a few pictures, but I seem to keep screwing it up. I have AOL, so shouldn't I have a picture host through AOL? How do I use it?

Can't wait to see everyone else's work.

John,
SWEET job on the limber!! The color coding on the airline fittings didn't go unnoticed either...nice touch! Can't wait to see the finished result.

John W.

John,
nice work there!
i just need to wash my AT crew.
i am building a dio base for the Pak 40, but i consider that to be outside the GB time limit.

on the Quad - got the decals on. was thinking abt painting the marking or running to LHS
for dry transfers for the numbers & letters.
then i decided not to be a twit and get something done instead!
put a bit of future where they were to go and put them on.
went well. will still have to shoot flat on it now.
the Limber is officially DONE,
the 25 pounder assembly is complete (less wheels, which are done)
needs to be painted & washed.

i am going away for holiday, so there will be no work or posts from
me until Tuesday.

take care.

OK, Larry are you there ?

It is 1 July & just to show good faith, and because I know that since the start of this thing, EVERYONE has been awaiting the M5 Heavy Carriage Limber on my Long Tom, I thought I'd preview it. (Larry, betcha wish you'd built one too now....)

Anyway, the AFV 155 & 8in kits give you the M5 Heavy Carriage Limber, a late war replacement for the M2 HC Limber (which I think everyone preferred as safer & easier to use, but oh well ....).

There are 7 things wrong with the AFV Club limber:
-- no air brake lines (very visible)
-- no limber lift sling
-- no groove in limber lift guide
-- the limber mechanism should pivot about the axle
-- there were several locking pins & chains to keep pins &bolts from going astray
-- the instructions for the Limber are only correct if the gun is shown in firing position - for transport, the T-bolt is used to clamp the trails to the limber (& there are other nuts/bolts involved)
-- if you want a WW2 (& even Korean War) gun, the wheels/tires are wrong & there should not be handles on the trail clamp.

I worked on the limber to fix the above, back-dating it to late WW2. The limber in the pix below is mostly done. It has been built, painted, & washed. I have some tweaking to do and of course connect it to the gun itself (the two stray wires are brake lines to connect on the trails).








As to the general gun, it is mostly assembled, painted, and washed -- although I was fiddling with the wash & got it a bit too thick & so have some repair to do. I am working the pieces, starting to do some dry-brushing to get some color variance & highlight in. I'll restrict rust & etc to places on the trails where the spades are stored. I also routed a simple (but attractive, IMHO) base from a nice piece of 1x4 in my DIY stash and am putting some finish on it ....

All in all, a good day, and of course due to the Guinness & Harp from last night ....

I'm back and yes I finished all my guns before the first but i'm still waiting to start making my website.

Got some good work in on the Pak crew last night.
had the magnifying visor on and the little brush out.
went pretty well, which made me feel worse for having put it off for so long.

gave the limber a good wash or two.

will work tonight on finishing the Pak crew.
and then i will assemble the 25 pounder.
decals for quad still pending.
considering hand painting some of the stuff as the markings are few & simple.

I hate this ....
Crunch time on the build, too many things to do & still no plan ....

I am making big sub-assemblies of littler ones (bogeys, mount, cradle, & carriage are finally joined), but stuck because I need to finsh the inside of the trails & the back of the lower carriage so I can close the trails & mount the limber & some of the outer trail stuff before I move on .... but I am still doing other things in other places .... nor have I finished the aiming stakes, staff sections, canvas bags & other junk .... and I found a better cable for the travel lock and I had to make pins for the spades the AFV didn't include ....

So now I'm assembling & painting & washing & wearing & whatnot & there is no organization 'cause I'm doing different things in different places & too many other things getting in the way (yes, dear) & I don't have a base for it & etc ....

But since I started this whine, I knocked down a Guinness, so back at it tomorrow ....

And, Larry, I've gotta be done by 7 July because this is my only entry in our club show on the 10th ... we travel & help setup the 9th & my (yes, dear) just scheduled something else for the 8th, not to mention house guests over the 4th weekend ....

OK, still whining, better have a Harp ....

John

QUOTE: Originally posted by JKWilson QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz Worked more on Limber stuff -- just need to add the little chains & hooks, I think, and also something to look like air hose fittings .... John, If you want some really neat stuff to make your airline fittings with, order a set of "O" scale railroad airline fittings from Grandt Line part # 112. You can order them for a few bucks from www.walthers.com. They ship within a day or two. I know you received fittings in the MP set, but I don't think they can compare to these! If you'd like a photo of what they look like (straight out of the package), shoot me an email an I'll take a shot for you. I look forward to seeing both your efforts and Larry's too John W.

Thanks -- they definitely will be a step up from the two I built from scratch, but too late for this build I'm afraid. First time I wished I had a good train store around .... You say there are fittings in the MP set ? I don't recognize 'em -- maybe that's what you meant ... it does have 4 air chambers which is not what I meant ....

just a quick update as i realize neither of my builds is likely to make the deadline.
on the Quad:
i finished assembling the limber, minus the wheels.
(they are done, i am just not puttig them on yet)
gave it a final shot of desert yellow, and then a dark wash after it dried.
i am thinking a lighter wash today, and maybe some drybrushing of the highlights and that will be that.

sanded most of the paint off the barrel and fixed the seam.
then repainted it.
glued the frame to the floorpan part.
had to wash the underside of the floorplan first.

i may be in a pickle w/ the few decals,
as i really do not feel like glossing the whole body shell.
(and some idiot already put a wash on it!)
i may just try to brush a bit of future where the decals will go
and put them on when it's still wet.
fortunately, there are only abt 6 decals.

i have painted the canvas top and some of the packs & rolls buff.
gave the top several washes last night.

i will work diligently when i get home from work today,
but i will not finish in time.
but i should be close.
i will need a few extra days to earn my badge!

Larry,

I've got several more shots of a Mack NO which show the bumper codes. They are additional images from the set I sent with the "nose art". The unit in the photos (which I don't recall off the top of my noggin), was an 8" artillery unit. I'll get them off the other computer tomorrow and send them to you. Once the stuff from Woody (Archer Transfers) is in the mail, they arrive pretty quick. So, my pictures may show up the same time as your transfers!!

John W.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz Worked more on Limber stuff -- just need to add the little chains & hooks, I think, and also something to look like air hose fittings ....

John,

If you want some really neat stuff to make your airline fittings with, order a set of "O" scale railroad airline fittings from Grandt Line part # 112. You can order them for a few bucks from www.walthers.com. They ship within a day or two. I know you received fittings in the MP set, but I don't think they can compare to these! If you'd like a photo of what they look like (straight out of the package), shoot me an email an I'll take a shot for you. I look forward to seeing both your efforts and Larry's too

John W.

Hey, thanks for the pics, Ed. Looks good. I like a lot of that British stuff. I was tempted to do an Accurate Armour heavy gun plus whatever its big prime mover is, but it was going to really rack up the bucks, and I just like the Mack NO and 8" combo too much.

Larry,
i am still soldiering o.
my Pak crew pouts on the bench, neglected as i work on Quad & 25 pounder.
am approaching completion, but will not make July 1 !
but near the end of this week, or next anyway.
i am going away for the 4th, so no work then.

i have also decided to further dilute my efforts by trying to make a base for the Pak.
sigh. i must enjoy having lots 'in progress' and little 'on the shelf'.

but more work to follow.

here is a peek at the "Mickey Mouse" camo on the Quad.
should finish the limber tonight, as well as get the chassis frame & floor joined
on the Quad. and glue the rest of the gun together, tho the barrel is showing some seam that needs repair. sigh.






sorry abt the varying quality & size.
still learning the new camera.

I was missing a tire rack from the cargo bay of my prime mover, the Mack NO. It finally came last night (thanks to the intervention of the guys at greatmodels.com), just in time to complicate my build. So I painted it, dullcoated my truck and the separate hoist components, and called it a night. That's the problem with the end of a build -- days go by when all you're doing is waiting for varnish coats to dry. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking .... [:0]

Thanks for the info John. I'll probably use that info to stick some decals on the truck. The guns don't seem to have had many markings except some small text on the side of the trails.

Zokester, happy modelling! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Not much to report on the home front. Did detail painting on the truck on Friday and saturday -- seats, black rubber steering wheel and knobs on shifts, Fooled around a little with the chain for the manual hoist. Then glosscoated the truck last night. Tonight I will dullcoate it. When that dries I will do the oils wash on it and the gun, then will put the decals on, and then it's weathering.

Which means I may glide through July 1 with elements of the kit not done yet. My decals aren'y even being mailed out by Archer til today!

Ah, ok final update. Finished figs, finished all dio accessories, and pretty any other piece of plastic for this that I had left to paint. This weekend, I'll actually start the dio, but since that's out of the scope of this GB, I guess I'm done.
In a month or two when I finish it all off, I'll take and post some pics.
Larry, cheers to you, as this has been one of the most fun GBs. It was a blast

Larry:
OK, fewer beers, so here we go.
I found 5 8" Gun FA Bns in the ETO -- 2 sources agree, so that is good.
One source says they all had HST prime movers, the other source doesn't say.
I doubt all/any were HST, especially those in 18ABC

Anyway:
153 FA Bn, 79 FA Gp, XVIII Abn Corps
243 FA Bn, 211 Fa Gp, XVIII Abn Corps (not sure chain is correct)
256 FA Bn, 177 FA Gp, XII Corps (ditto)
268 FA Bn, 190 FA Gp, V Corps
575 FA Bn, unk, unk

Anyway, typical truck markings (example is 153FA).
Star on hood
Front bumper: XVIII - 153FA A-11 (A Btry, 1st gun in 1st Plt)
Rear similar.

I didn't do real good scan of all pix, but didn't find any decent confirmation pix, nor did I do any 2nd/3rd level research to narrow this down ....

Spent a few hours today doing little details on the limber. Built a "jig" to hold the carraige in as I work on it. Put mount on carriage. Finished bogey brake lines, also brake lines from trails to lower carriage. Working on the cable which tied the travel lock to the lower carriage, not in kit. Did more picture research to find little things to do, while waiting on big things to dry. I hope I don't have an issue when all is together that gun sits on limber & rear wheels of bogie, leaving front bogie wheels in the air ....

The AFV 155 is a good kit, but is amazing what is left out or wrong .....

Larry:

It's late & too many beers to do research, will send something tomorrow.

I got in a few hours today.

Glued inner/outer wheels together & sure enough fragile wheels came out on two, so that slowed me up. Wanted to "flatten" tires a bit to show weight on 'em & tried to heat with an iron but didn't work well, so just sanded 'em down a bit. Drilled holes to mount valve stems & did last major paint coat on all wheels/tires. Just need to mount valve stems & touch up paint.

Mounted bogie assembly to carriage & started hooking up brake lines. Two rear cylinders went fine, but the MP piece forward came loose so I had to reglue & wait.

Started doing some "wear" painting on the gun & cradle and working other parts.

Worked more on Limber stuff -- just need to add the little chains & hooks, I think, and also something to look like air hose fittings ....

Now I have lots of sub-assemblies & lots of little parts & lots of things to do & no good management system other than memory .... see beer comment above ....

QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz [ Saw the Mack pix, looks nice. Saw on MLX you asked for markings -- pix are rare as you know, but I have a list of 8" units (some of which I can tie to an org structure) in ETO, and you could just gen up something using standard schemes & a dummy USA#. You want any of this ???

Any info appreciated! I ordered up a bunch of transfers from Archer.

QUOTE: Last, is the deadline before 1 July, or on 1 July ? I'm squeezed unless we get a couple good days of rain that "forces me" to stay indoors.

It's July 1, but it's no big deal if you go over a few days. The date is just the incentive to build and not put it off indefinitely.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn What are these microbrushes of which you speak?

Larry:

microbrush.com

bendable plastic handles with little brush balls on the end -- available in any LHS or OLS -- good for glue, paint, etc ...

Saw the Mack pix, looks nice. Saw on MLX you asked for markings -- pix are rare as you know, but I have a list of 8" units (some of which I can tie to an org structure) in ETO, and you could just gen up something using standard schemes & a dummy USA#. You want any of this ???

Last, is the deadline before 1 July, or on 1 July ? I'm squeezed unless we get a couple good days of rain that "forces me" to stay indoors.

What are these microbrushes of which you speak?

Here's a link to a post I put on the armor forum, concerning the progress on my prime mover.

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22660

Well, progress today is measured in over an hour scratch-building the Sling, Limber Lift for my M5 Limber and the Long Tom.
I am also working on hooks & chains & things on the Limber & Mount.
Like Larry, I'm also into painting tires (so I can get the rear bogies & limber up). I use MicroBrushes for detail & the regular (or fine) do great running the wheel rim.

Anyway, it still looks iffy for 1 July. Some priority home maintenance atop the usual honey-do's .... and of course, flying lessons, which are a self inflicted thing ....

Last night I went to start painting my Mack OD, and then I realized, as I always do when working on something with tires, that I have to paint the tires first! Doh. So I shot the dark grey over all the tires, it dried almost immediately, and then I drybrushed with a mixture of black and white oils along the tire treads.

Realizing that the wheels are embedded pretyy far into the tires, if you know what I mean, making it difficult to use a circle template to put the OD on the wheel section, I puzzled over this for a while, but then had a brainstorm. What if I create a tube using a circle template? Something tubelike to extend out from the circle? I tried using packing tape, a firm clear plastic stuff, by cutting a thin section and running it along the circle, sticky side out so that it touched the plastic. This extends the circle with a thin tube. I got ot right after a few tries, and now when I put the tape circle, stuck inside the circle template, over the wheel, the plastic on the tape goes all the way down to the wheel.

Unfortunately, the opposite side of the wheels is wider than the outside facing. I may just say the heck with it, or I may create another tube extension for the circle template, which would be a pain.

Will it work? Who knows? But I'll be trying it tonight, as I am going to lay the OD on the Mack this evening, including the wheels.

I'll post the results tomorrow.