ARMOR - Towed Gun Group Build (ends 7/1/04)

i finished my 105 tonight. All i have to do is paint it in OD. Then i might add some figs and a base.

Larry:
My sole progress today was to cleanly remove my "archy-thing" from the cradle.
I'm hoping for some quality time tomorrow & maybe over weekend if there's enough rain, otherwise it's gonna be 1:1 scale work on the house ....

QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz Larry, just to be technically anal about things: -- sheave is a word for pulley

Yup, I was aware of that.

QUOTE: -- the "bracket" I talked about holds the sheave. -- what you took off the kit isn't a bracket but just an arch-part of the cradle itself. -- then you put on the MP arch-part with bracket & sheave ....

I don't think we were talking past each other on this one. I knew the piece you were talking about, but don't have the manual so didn't know what the term for the cradle part was.

Anyway, good to hear your gun is coming along.

Man, don't i feel like the Lazy-Boy, poking along on my old 7.5cm Pak!

i am hoping to get it wrapped up pretty soon, and if time permits, start my Quad & 25 pounder.
got a late start, as i was finishing a wingy-thing, but moving along now.
if i don't have time for the Quad & gun, i might build another little one,
like a 20mm AA piece or something. but a month & a half could be enough if i get cracking.
of course, there is Memorial Day weekend (no modeling, as i will be on the road) and another off weekend coming up to help w/ my buddy's deck . . .

always something to do.

Larry:

OK, I got into my MP stuff today.

Limber:
-- I cut/ground the cone out of the inside of the MP wheels, then I took the original AFV Limber wheels & cut out the center, ground down the outside nuts & things to make a very thin pievce that I glued over the place where I grond out the cones on the MP wheels. Now I have WW2 limber wheels that mate up to my M5 Limber.
-- Also, since the HST is iffy, I cut the center axle out of the limber & made it rotate like the otriginal, so if I show the gun set-up, then the limber will have the limber lift stuff hanginging down as it should. Or I can display it mounted !! My Limber is becoming it's own little model.

Gun: I took off my scratchbuilt add-ons, cleaned up the tube, getting ready to backdate it to an M1.

Bogies: I think that if I sand down the outer wheel of the inner bogies, then I'll take out about 3/64" of that gap & the wheels should fit just nice. Fortunately I hadn' installed the kit drums & stuff, so I'm not loosing back-date time.

Anyway, looks like I'm on the way now.

BTW, some of the BII was stored on or attached to the trails when moving -- ammo lift, aiming stakes, etc -- at least on the 155.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn I've gone back and taken the bracket off my gun, and installed the resin one that takes the sheave. Then it was lots of little work on odds and ends.

Larry, just to be technically anal about things:
-- sheave is a word for pulley
-- the "bracket" I talked about holds the sheave.
-- what you took off the kit isn't a bracket but just an arch-part of the cradle itself.
-- then you put on the MP arch-part with bracket & sheave ....

Ain't the language wonderful ?? I'll bet we were talking past each other a couple times because we didn'thave common tech terms ...

QUOTE: Originally posted by muzzleflash88 So what product did you use to unglue what other product? :)

I used "un cure" CA glue. came in a green bottle.

QUOTE: Originally posted by muzzleflash88 what? you want me to ruin the surprise of the dio before its finished?

I think they are all going to be standing in a circle having inspirational literature read to them by a commissar -- while all of their cannons are slowly, imperceptably, turned to point in his direction!

QUOTE: what? you want me to ruin the surprise of the dio before its finished?

lol, yeah, wouldn't you?

QUOTE: Originally posted by zokissima Wow, muzzleflash, that's quite a few figs. Any ideas what the overall scene will show?

Yeah I have a few ideas of what it is going to look like...


what? you want me to ruin the surprise of the dio before its finished?

QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz Larry: Got my Master Prod Am today -- A mixed bag.

I'm actually mostly happy with it, though I got 5 outer tires and three inner ones. Not hard to convert an outter tire to an inner one by using the drum part from the kit and shaving off the nuts. inside the outer wheel so that the kit drum will fit in.

QUOTE: ]"Bad" News: -- sketchy instructions with maybe only 80% of parts indicated and discrepancies between instructions & parts in kit.

Yes, this is true. Several parts are not illustrated at all, while others are illustrated extremely incorrectly.

QUOTE: -- Bogey Wheels: [list] Again, the parts & instructions don't match as you've noted. The instructions show the AFV kit "drums" on the bogies & the MP wheel/tire sliding over same -- nope, the inner bogey contains the "drum".

I lucked out and left all the wheel parts off, not knowing what the resin set had in store. It is clear once the pieces are out of the bag that the instructions are wrong on those wheels. What a saga, no?

QUOTE: Also, when assembled, the tires appear to have too much gap between 'em. I know commercial tires are usually thinner than military, but it still seems extreme. I don't think one can sand down each mating side of the wheel assembly to take out the gap, they are too thin already, but one might be able to cut the "wheel" out of the (outer bogey) tire & remount it slightly outboard & do it.

Actually, some of the wheel gaps are pretty wide. I'm basically comfortable with this at this point. Frinstance, check this out:



Also this one:


And this is with the wider military tires.

QUOTE: Anyway, given how much time I (we) have spent on these things, I might have to scale back a bit -- I haven't even started the HST. So I'm working at options on the gun which will allow me to show it in travel or set-up, which means adding a bit more flexibility to the kit.

That's a complicated prospect. I'm just going to go with the locked up for transport option. I've actually gotten a fair amount of work done on the Mack's suspension as well, so I am hoping I will be done by July 1. I hope to have the gun itself done by June 6.

Good luck! I'll try to post a progress pic or two tonight.

Yay, I finished my flak 43. I used citadel paints (of warhammer fame) to drybrush a steel finish, representing chips etc in the paint, then a little bit of a drybrush with Model Master Rust, and it was all done. I owe far too many pics to this forum, so this is one more to add to the list.
Still have to finish the carriage and the demag, but at least everything has a basecoat and a wash by now

QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelreenactor I finally got that piece that i misglued out. I should be progressing very rapidly again.

So what product did you use to unglue what other product? :)

I finally got that piece that i misglued out. I should be progressing very rapidly again.

Larry:

Got my Master Prod Am today -- A mixed bag.

Good News: very nice tires, correct 5-spoke wheels, an M2 Limber, and a few other parts. & of course (ready everyone), a bracket/sheave !!!

"Bad" News:
-- sketchy instructions with maybe only 80% of parts indicated and discrepancies between instructions & parts in kit.

-- Limber wheels: I know you don't need the limber stuff, but this is one more headache for me. Instructions show separate wheel/tire & conical hub to slide on axle. In actuality, the wheel/tire and hub are one part, making it difficult to use the wheel/tire on the M5 Limber from the AFV kit, which I will do because I've done a lot of work on the M5 already. I'll try to pry the hub off the wheel/tire & hope the wheel survives the strain.

-- Bogey Wheels:

• Again, the parts & instructions don't match as you've noted. The instructions show the AFV kit "drums" on the bogies & the MP wheel/tire sliding over same -- nope, the inner bogey contains the "drum".


• Also, when assembled, the tires appear to have too much gap between 'em. I know commercial tires are usually thinner than military, but it still seems extreme.


• I don't think one can sand down each mating side of the wheel assembly to take out the gap, they are too thin already, but one might be able to cut the "wheel" out of the (outer bogey) tire & remount it slightly outboard & do it.


• Since two of my four outer bogeys had loose "wheel" parts anyway, I only have to remove two more to try it.

Anyway, given how much time I (we) have spent on these things, I might have to scale back a bit -- I haven't even started the HST. So I'm working at options on the gun which will allow me to show it in travel or set-up, which means adding a bit more flexibility to the kit.

I also want to add some of the visible BII, etc.

Glad you are back on track !!

Update: got lots of work done on my 8" howitzer over the weekend. Hussah!

There are lots of suspension pieces that go on based on the position of the wheels, so first I had to glue the axles in place. So I created a jig that allowed the gun's trails to be tilted up the exact height on the towing pintle on the Mack NO (hopefully the right height!), propped some of the Master Production resin wheels on the kit, put some glue on the axles and then propped the gun on the jig. I let it dry overnight and then popped on all the suspension rods and the brakes that attach to them.

I've gone back and taken the bracket off my gun, and installed the resin one that takes the sheave. Then it was lots of little work on odds and ends.

I'm happy to report that construction is virtually done on my gun! It's in about five sub-assemblies, which will be separately primed. Then I'll construct most of it and put the OD on. I'm really shooting for June 6 or earlier, my own humble salute to the Allied veterans who sacrificed so much to hit the beaches.

I hope to have the Mack done by July 1, so the entire display model will be done, but don't hold yer breath.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz pg52-53: 8" with no sheave/bracket So, who knows ?

I got it on Saturday. I think the pics on pp 52-3 are from post WWII, so they would be M2 guns. (Or possibly m115?)

QUOTE: I'm convinced if time travel is ever invented, it will be by modelers all wnating to go back & see the real thing because the literature is so contradictory !!!!

Nah, this is much too much fun!

QUOTE: Originally posted by muzzleflash88 The following progress picture sucks, oh well :

HOLY COW! What an ambitious project this is shaping up to be. It's gonna be one great-looking diorama!

Wow, muzzleflash, that's quite a few figs. Any ideas what the overall scene will show?

QUOTE: Originally posted by muzzleflash88 Hey jratz, if a lone gun has a sheave and nobody is there to see it, is it a 155?

Good one .
Larry & I have been really getting into the bits & pieces of our two pieces (155 & 8") and the prime movers (HST & Mack) & the differences the model folks have missed. No doubt we could write a small book on the subject at this point.

BTW, I liked your pic of your gun & crew above -- well not the quality of the pic but what you are going thru. I'm in same stage with a 2-pdr trying to make a crew and the lack of much in the way of crew for my 155 has me leaning toward showing it in travel mode.

Looks great everyone.
Finally got around to airbrushing my gun so ill have to get working on it so i finish in time

Muzzleflash:

You are progressing well, I see. You are doing good with the painting. Hope to see it all set-up soon. Looks like a big dio.

Hey jratz,

if a lone gun has a sheave and nobody is there to see it, is it a 155?

my 105 should be finished soon, im just waiting to go to hobbytown to get some "un-cure" CA stuff, to unglue that darn piece.

Larry:

OK, I have found pix of 8" with bracket & sheave on cradle.

British & American Artillery of WW2 by Ian Hogg has a couple (but I suspect these are Ordnance pix & not anything from in the field).

AA#13: I mised 'em first time because they are mislabelled as 155's !!! Only one of several errors I have found in AA#13 upon closer inspection.
Pg49: the photo is reversed (breech opening to wrong side).
pg51-52: these are 8" not 155
pg40: is that 155 or 8" ? see sheave/bracket & barrel
pg42: is that 8" ? see sheave/bracket
pg52-53: 8" with no sheave/bracket

So, who knows ? On my 155, I now have pix of "M1" that have the rings not the bracket/sheave, which means I could use what I have.

I'm convinced if time travel is ever invented, it will be by modelers all wnating to go back & see the real thing because the literature is so contradictory !!!!

The following progress picture sucks, oh well :





Well the picture sucks but I am making progress on the painting. I have spent hours and hours and hours Frankensteining my figures from DML, Hornet, Warriors, Tamiya, ICM, Zveda to make them fit EXACTLY what I want them to do. For example... a figure may have been intended to be riding on a tank but instead he may now be dragging a box of ammo to the gun crew

The figures are just laying on the board, there is no rhyme or reason to their placement and it WILL make sense when I am done hehehe

more pics soon, and they will be better quality

QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelreenactor Larry, if that pic was for me, I think it was, that lookes slightly different from mine.

It was for "jratz", who is building an artillery piece very similar to mine.

QUOTE: Originally posted by thundergod Shoot all these nice guns are making me want to build my 88 now....anyway lookin good rebelreenactor.

I was thinking the same, except I don't have an 88 - I'd have to go find something!

thanks guys, I'm finding the kit tobe very nice. theres some small peices that are hard to sand. There are a few pin marks but it doesn't really show. I did, unfortunatly, run it to a problem in the directions, ive glued the connecting piece for the barreletc, to the bottom half. anyone know how to unglue things?

Larry, if that pic was for me, I think it was, that lookes slightly different from mine.
I need to get into AMparts. lots ofmoney though

Shoot all these nice guns are making me want to build my 88 now....anyway lookin good rebelreenactor.