ARMOR - Towed Gun Group Build (ends 7/1/04)

Larry:

Ya got me !!! I went back to check my pix & the best one of a Mack NO & Long Tom in fact didn't have a limber !! I thought the limber was just hidden by grass, but on closer inspection (length of the truck + gun), it isn't there. I'll post it later because it is a neat pic anyway. Further quick search yielded nothing, so obviously I wasn't paying close attention. I'm ashamed.

I went back to TM 9-350 (the M2 155) and it says something like "without limber by being semi-trailered" but as I said -- no pix, no other explanation.

I did find the "Catalog of Army Vehicles of WW2", a reprint of a 1944 manual where, under the 7-1/2 ton Truck (pg 112) it states "An Ordnance pintle, Model M-5, is furnished, together with special coupling attachments for the 8" Howitzer, M1, and the 155mm Gun, M1." Guess I need to look for a Mack NO TM.

Does the Mack NO model come with such a "special coupling" ??? If so, a picture of that or the instruction section would staisfy my curiosity. If not, then how will you hook 'em up ?

The only French book (like what you suggested) I've got is one on markings .... no joy.

LOL zok, I completely agree! But I also agree with Larry. This is a pretty fun kit to build. There are a few parts that are unclear from the instructions on placement. Fortunately, with the links from above I was able to avert disaster and I could see exactly where the shield mounts were supposed to fit.

Counting the clear parts and the tires seperately, this kit comes with 9 sprues! Crazy amount of parts! Like the reviewed links above state, this kit has a huge number of very tiny parts. However, I believe that is part of why I am loving this build!

As I stated earlier, this is my first artillery piece, and if I can find some more like this one, I will definitely build more of them!

QUOTE: Originally posted by zokissima Scorn, that kit does really look like a 'non-easy' build, plus those instructions, in my opinion, pack way too much in one step.

Half the fun though, isn't it?

Scorn, that kit does really look like a 'non-easy' build, plus those instructions, in my opinion, pack way too much in one step.

More progress on my 8" howitzer last night, I'm happy to report. I got the gun superstructure built, which is step 6, and so the barrel, recoil slide, superstructure and trails are all done. Hussah!

What's left is the suspension and wheels, and from the instructions it looks quite fiddly, but I'm looking forward to it. So far it's been a fun build. It's not a bad kit at all, and man is it ever an impressive looking gun. It completely dwarfs the Panzer 38t on my worktable, but then again so does a Jeep.

More work on it next week -- or maybe Sunday. I'm going to MAssachusetts for my son's birthday party. Hmmm, maybe I'll pay that 8" howitzer a visit too. Hmmm ....

QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz Actually the limber was optional with truck, but one could use it. The operators TM for the gun states that the gun could be pulled w/o limber but does not give any instructions on how to hook/unhook same (very odd for an Army TM!!). OTOH, all the other pictures with prime mover use a truck & not the M4. And I have WW2 pix of Mack pulling gun via limber.

I'd like to see one. Can you scan and post? -- I've never seen a period pic of a Mack NO pulling a Long Tom or an 8" howitzer using the limber. I've seen museum pics, the best of those being a superb set on the tanxheaven website, but they are "museum poses" to demonstrate how the limber would be used. All the period pics I have show the gun being towed without the limber. They apparently didn't even bring the limbers along. My father was in divisional artillery in WWII and he says the limbers were very unpopular with the 8" and Long Tom crews because they just increased length, which was a bad thing when towing a piece, and increased the length of the transport column as well.

QUOTE: I really wish I had some good pix of gun w/o limber to see what they used to gather in & hook up the trails.

There's a very good pic of just that in the French book (translated into English, don't remember the title, but it's something like US Trucks of World War II) -- it has a Mack NO towing a gun, parked next to a Jeep towing a 37mm, just for comparison's sake.

A guy stationed on an army base here in the States very nicely sent me a photo scan of an 8" being towed without the limber, but it's not got a close-up of the hitch-up details, unfortunately.

I'll try to post the pix next week. I won't be home for the next few days.

QUOTE: Yeah, wheel set is OK. I like to point out issues, but at same time, I ought to be able to get around most of 'em or I shouldn't be modeling ....

I've got a while to get a set, but so far it's not looking good for June 6 ....

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn ... snip .... Gotcha. I'm not building the limber, so it won't be an issue for me! The crews didn't use the limber when the Mack NO towed the 8" gun or the Long Tom. .... snip .... Do you like the set overall though?

Actually the limber was optional with truck, but one could use it. The operators TM for the gun states that the gun could be pulled w/o limber but does not give any instructions on how to hook/unhook same (very odd for an Army TM!!). OTOH, all the other pictures with prime mover use a truck & not the M4. And I have WW2 pix of Mack pulling gun via limber.

I really wish I had some good pix of gun w/o limber to see what they used to gather in & hook up the trails.

Yeah, wheel set is OK. I like to point out issues, but at same time, I ought to be able to get around most of 'em or I shouldn't be modeling ....

Looks like everyone is making progress!
Thanks for hosting the badge Larry.

Thanks for all the ref links folks! Love gettin' ideas. Had a very hard time gettin' the gun to align in the mount. The no guide holes really made for a tough straightening job on that loooonnngg tube.

Lots of great links. The truck sounds like quite a bear to build. I'm looking forward to building my all-resin Mack NO with a combination of excitement and dread. But first things first for The Slow Modeler -- get the 8" done by June 6, 2004.

QUOTE: Originally posted by zokissima Way to go Scorn. I have that same kit, but it's the Artillery of the Serbian Army. The URAL is an ex Omega kit, which is supposed to be a little crude, but very nice, same with the gun. Ural truck brief review http://www.kitreview.com/reviews/uralcs_1.htm I had a buildup review, but I can't seem to be able to find it. BS-100 http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/russia/icm35141.htm Build review of the gun http://modelingmadness.com/scotts/misc/military/artillery.htm another: http://www.track-link.net/reviews/k178 another Ural link http://www.track-link.net/reviews/k170 have fun. Post some pics when done, I really want to see this kit, as I probably won't get around to building mine in a while.

Way to go Scorn. I have that same kit, but it's the Artillery of the Serbian Army.
The URAL is an ex Omega kit, which is supposed to be a little crude, but very nice, same with the gun.

Ural truck brief review
http://www.kitreview.com/reviews/uralcs_1.htm

I had a buildup review, but I can't seem to be able to find it.

BS-100
http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/russia/icm35141.htm

Build review of the gun
http://modelingmadness.com/scotts/misc/military/artillery.htm

another:
http://www.track-link.net/reviews/k178

another Ural link
http://www.track-link.net/reviews/k170

have fun. Post some pics when done, I really want to see this kit, as I probably won't get around to building mine in a while.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz Larry: No, I was talking about the equally small B17 & B20 that go on the Limber -- I haven't got to the A28 parts yet. But yes, cleaning & not sneezing & loosing them was an issue !!!

Gotcha. I'm not building the limber, so it won't be an issue for me! The crews didn't use the limber when the Mack NO towed the 8" gun or the Long Tom.

QUOTE: Yes, I probably can heat cure the wheels & tires -- I just figured to hide the issue first & repair if I couldn't ....

Good plan. If I ever get a set of those wheels, maybe I'll do that too. (I could actually order them direct from PSP, but they hit you for a fortune in "minimum postage costs" if you buy direct. Ten pounds I think, which is in the neighborhood of twenty bucks!

Do you like the set overall though?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Scorn Sigh... I started on my gun today. Russian BS-3 100mm field gun. It is from a company called ICM. Judging by the cyrillic text it is a Russian company. I have never heard of it, but just from the first few parts that I have glued together on this kit, I am def going to do more of their stuff. The kit I purchased comes with a Ural 4320 6 wheel truck and the field gun, as well as 4 Afghan figures. I think, considering the quality of the kit that $33.00 is a great deal.

Scorn, keep us updated! I've heard lots of great things about that kit. I've actually got it squirreled away somewhere -- then again, I've got virtually every kit known to man squirreled away somewhere.

That was a great all-purpose gun they developed there. Potent AT gun in the 40's, useful field gun for minor states in the 21st century.

I wonder if that truck is the kind so often used by dinosaur hunter expeditions in the Gobi desert -- I read a book called Dinosaurs of the Flamintg Cliffs a few years ago in which an incredibly durable old Russian truck was one ot the heroes. That'd be a fun way to build up the truck if not towing the gun.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Scorn Sigh... I started on my gun today. Russian BS-3 100mm field gun. It is from a company called ICM. Judging by the cyrillic text it is a Russian company. I have never heard of it, but just from the first few parts that I have glued together on this kit, I am def going to do more of their stuff. The kit I purchased comes with a Ural 4320 6 wheel truck and the field gun, as well as 4 Afghan figures. I think, considering the quality of the kit that $33.00 is a great deal.

Awesome, more Russian stuff I am building 3 guns from ICM in a diorama. I was considering the kit you purchased with the Ural. I know the Ural is an incredible model as well. Post some pics when you get a chance

Scorn... I hope these pages will be of help for you on the bis3... reference pictures

(2 pages of pics from Khabarovsk) http://www.thetankmaster.com/english/afv/BS3_1.asp

(2 pages of pics from moscow)http://www.thetankmaster.com/english/afv/BS3_1944_1.asp

Larry:

No, I was talking about the equally small B17 & B20 that go on the Limber -- I haven't got to the A28 parts yet. But yes, cleaning & not sneezing & loosing them was an issue !!!

Yes, I probably can heat cure the wheels & tires -- I just figured to hide the issue first & repair if I couldn't ....

Sigh...

I started on my gun today. Russian BS-3 100mm field gun. It is from a company called ICM. Judging by the cyrillic text it is a Russian company. I have never heard of it, but just from the first few parts that I have glued together on this kit, I am def going to do more of their stuff. The kit I purchased comes with a Ural 4320 6 wheel truck and the field gun, as well as 4 Afghan figures. I think, considering the quality of the kit that $33.00 is a great deal.

Thanks Tigerman. I just found out last night that the figures looked rather shiny. Gotta hit the LHS today to get me some Tamiya Flat Base to knock the shine off. And probably...(and I say probably)...I can get more progress on this thing.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn QUOTE: Originally posted by bbrowniii Next I am starting the 3.7 cm Flak gun being towed by the British Universal Weapons Carrier. Ambitious! Towed guns are like Fritos, aren't they?

And you know, I do love Fritos!!!

Dwight the 88 is looking good, kind of kick myself for passing it up yesterday. Oh well....can't wait to see your finished dio.

QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz Larry: I fought with those same 4 tiny handles !!! I had to carefully squeeze the ends together so they'd clamp on the tabs !!! Not fun.

Hmmm. Are we talking about the same grab handles? These are, I think A28. They were no problem attaching, but were a real pain to get off the sprue and clean up. To be honest, I didn't do such a great job of it. What part are you referring to?

QUOTE: Update on wheels & tires -- I got into them today. Quality is a bit uneven. The tread depth varies & not as per real wear, but it may not be a real problem. I found some tiny airholes vicinity of the sprue attachment. I also found some tires & a couple wheels to be lop-sided (or bent) -- almost looks like they modelled 'em after a junkyard. I think the whel parts will be OK when glued in, and I think I can hide the tires on inner bogies.

Thanks for the review. I can't find them. I wonder -- can you fix the lopsided pieces by heating the piece and straightening it out?

Yeah I can see the badge again!!!

Larry:

I fought with those same 4 tiny handles !!! I had to carefully squeeze the ends together so they'd clamp on the tabs !!! Not fun. But consider how nicely done the handles are, it it evens out.

Update on wheels & tires -- I got into them today. Quality is a bit uneven. The tread depth varies & not as per real wear, but it may not be a real problem. I found some tiny airholes vicinity of the sprue attachment. I also found some tires & a couple wheels to be lop-sided (or bent) -- almost looks like they modelled 'em after a junkyard. I think the whel parts will be OK when glued in, and I think I can hide the tires on inner bogies.

Thanks guys.

Zok: The color is dark yellow but under a bluish-white fourescent lamp it looks greenish. If you check the close-up pics...that's more or less what the real color is.

Guys, I am hosting the badge now. Here's the badge:




I shamed myself into doing some more work on my 8" howitzer last night. I removed four incredibly skinny grabhandles from a huge sprue connection point, cleaned them up, [:0], and attached them to the parts they go on, then I started on the trails, and looked into getting the PSP aftermarket wheels.

Sorry I am behind.. i have been out of town on a shoot all last week. Dwight, the 88 is looking awsome... great weathering. I like the chipping along the bottom of the gun sheild and on the feet. Desert rig? Very nice...

No work done yet...not one piece glued...

Dwight, looks very good. What colour did you use for the 88? Looks very....greenish.

Anywhoo, this weekend was a busy one in terms of life, and pretty much almost dead in terms of modeling. I ended up prepping all the little bits that were left to be base coated. I ended up painting it Model Master Panzer Gray out of a spray can, since I had one lying around. I don't know, it looks kind of too dark for me. I also bought a set of the old Italeri artillery crew figs to use with the flak 43. For the gun itself, I basecoated everything as well, then cut aluminum window mesh to use for the empty case collection bin. Measured the kits I'd be using and cut a piece of composite board for the baseboard.
Ah well, there's allways this week to get something done.

Looking real good Dwight.

Matt sorry to hear about the sig, but ggod to see its back on track.

I just got home, so hope to start my little 3.7mm at gun in a day or so. Going to pick up my ,now fixed, camera tomorrow afternoon, so pics on this GB (and the Panther and Sherman ones) soon.

Somebody save the badge? Post it and I'll host it. Or e-mail it to majestic_cheese@yahoo.com

same here

Hey what happened to the gb badge i just see the little red X now!