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Big Beautiful Jugs - OFFICIAL P-47 GROUP BUILD

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  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 2:00 AM

cml

Ok, so, this GB has now kicked off? At least on my side of the globe.

Yep - it's go time! 

Apologies for not being around much the past few days - business trip out to San Francisco, complete with a missed flight out yesterday and waaaay too much time in airports!

I'm increasingly leaning toward putting my big Trumpy Wildcat back in its box before I really start on it to play with the Jugs instead. Have to finish the 190A-3 first - hopefully by Christmas and certainly by the end of the year...

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:07 AM

Hey np Doogs, I've a pile of stuff I really need to finish first. Still I jumped the gun a little by doing a little work on the Promodeler's gear bays. Odd design, the legs are molded together with one of the sides of bay. So you can't assemble the model, paint her and then plug the legs in, they're hanging out the whole time you're painting the model, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping this weird design doesn't end up with one or both broken off.  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:42 PM

Wow. Just came across this fantastic featuring a lot of hot Jug action. A few bits of it seem like modern resto-job fun, but most of it is very obviously color WWII film. In the cockpit, in flight, gun cameras, some amazing video footage of the kind of damage the P-47 could sustain...

Definitely give it a watch if you have a few minutes!

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:01 AM

Another badge to consider:

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:06 AM

wow doogs that was too cool!!! my eyes about buged out when i saw that guy standing in the hole in the wing, man that was some plane.thx for posting the vid

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:55 AM

Doogs- Awesome video with some primo footage.

 Hmmm, I really like both Badge choices. Indeed difficult to choose but I 'll have to lean toward yours there Doogs.

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois
Posted by Hercmech on Thursday, December 22, 2011 1:34 PM

Great Video...loved the secondary on that one house. They must have really had some ammo stash in there. Also OSHA would have fits if we still rode along on the wing like that.


13151015

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:54 PM

My camera was on the outs for a few days so I didn't take as many WIP as usual. Back on line and this is where "Miss Dallas" sits now.

Bit more blending on the top surface, some buffing of the grey, and a few touchups it'll be ready for the first clear coat tomorrow.

   

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, December 23, 2011 12:48 AM

Hercmech

Great Video...loved the secondary on that one house. They must have really had some ammo stash in there. Also OSHA would have fits if we still rode along on the wing like that.

Wow, I was thinking the same thing, maybe they were building IEDs in that house? Or else were storing nitro there?

 

JBrady: Dang, you're about 3/4ths done!

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Friday, December 23, 2011 8:15 AM

Here's something I found interesting this morning. We all struggle to interpret phots from the forties. I thought the explanation of the photo was illuminating in the way that some experts look for details to date pictures. It also gives some insights into what we should look for when we are trying to place an aircraft in time and place. There is aslo some good information on color interpretation. Note the castering tail wheel on the Jug. The wheel is cocked at a 90% angle to the direction the plane is pointed yet the rudder is in the neutral position.

An early Republic Thunderbolt, probably a P-47C, somewhere in England. Tell us more! When and where was the picture taken? Who is the pilot? Anything interesting about the paint scheme? Why is the cowling white? Any comments about the B-17 in the background?

Notes by Jeff Harrison:
This plane is painted in the standard camouflage and markings for P-47's in early 1943. P-47's of the 4th, 56th and 78th fighter groups all sported a yellow surround to the fuselage national insignia by the spring of 1943 so it's pretty safe to say that this photograph was taken before then. The camouflage is Olive Drab over Neutral Gray (possibly the US equivalent of Medium Sea Grey after it was decided to simplify the various schemes and start using one color instead of 3 or 4 different yet similar colors for the various camouflage schemes in effect). The white cowl (and if you look closely the white band on the horizontal stabilizer and the white band just visible on the vertical stabilizer) are standard recognition markings applied to P-47's shortly after their introduction to the ETO.

Little can be seen of the B-17 in the background. It is probably an F (the standard model in service at the time this picture was probably taken) and is camouflaged in the standard Olive Drab over Neutral Gray scheme with Medium Green blotches to break up the outline of the fin, wings and stabilizers. The serial number is yellow and aside from that there is little else to be told from this picture.

Steve Collins added:
Also note that the cowling underside gray and the gray under the fuselage do not line up. Apparently, the cowling was removed from the aircraft to be painted, and the same one was not put back on. Additionally, the thin white strip behind the white on the cowling is probably due to overspray past the masking tape put down.

Additions by Chuck Rau:
Type 1 National Insignia (Cocarde) was a blue circle with a white star in the middle of it, then a smaller red circle within the star. This went into effect 01-Jan-1921. 

Type 2 Cocarde was issued 15-May-1942 which  ordered the red circle removed to avoid confusion with the Japanese meatball.

Type 2a (as I call it) was issued on 01-Oct-1942 when a yellow surround was added to the outside of the blue circle. On British aircraft used by the Americans, the yellow outside ring of RAF insignia was left during overpainting.

The photo shows the P-47's insignia to be of Type 2. It does not appear that squadron markings are present yet, the horizontal stabilizer appears to show a white stripe, as does the space between the pitot tube and the vertical stabilizer, which would go along with the cowling paint job as the early 8th AF fighter theater markings.  The first P-47D (serial number 42-22250) rolled off the assembly line from the new Evansville, Indiana plant September of 1942, and it did not replace the -C model on the line at Farmingdale until February 1943, so this fighter must be a P-47C.

The B-17 is definitely not a -G model.  You would see part of the chin turret from this angle. Look close at the top turret.  It shows that it is the older Bendix electrically-powered turret. This was used on all -Es and early -Fs. The first B-17F (41-24340) flew on May 30, 1942. Studying the photo the
last three digits look like 459. The first B-17 with those last three digits would be a Boeing B-17F-10-BO Fortress (41-24440/24489). I am not sure if this plane would have made England before at least September. The B-17E was first flown to England around July 1942 for the 8th AF
buildup. The serial numbers for the -Es are: 41-2393/2669. The 459 would fit in this group also. Most likely the B-17 is an E model.

With these details, that would put the photo sometime around July of 1942 and in England.
Another thought is that because a fighter and bomber are together could mean they could be at a depot in England, where the P-47 just got his theater markings and is heading out to his squadron, and the B-17 could be an -F model having received its camouflage of medium green added to the Olive Drab. That might put this photo around September of 1942.

 

 

   

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Friday, December 23, 2011 8:39 AM

jbrady

...the cowling underside gray and the gray under the fuselage do not line up. Apparently, the cowling was removed from the aircraft to be painted, and the same one was not put back on. Additionally, the thin white strip behind the white on the cowling is probably due to overspray past the masking tape put down...

 

YES!!! There was overspray & mis-aligned paint on the real things - so I've been doing this right for years!!!! Stick out tongue

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Friday, December 23, 2011 9:14 AM

VanceCrozier

 jbrady:

...the cowling underside gray and the gray under the fuselage do not line up. Apparently, the cowling was removed from the aircraft to be painted, and the same one was not put back on. Additionally, the thin white strip behind the white on the cowling is probably due to overspray past the masking tape put down...

 

 

YES!!! There was overspray & mis-aligned paint on the real things - so I've been doing this right for years!!!! Stick out tongue

Exactly... I was trying to figure out how to fix a small bit of overspray without masking the entire model again. Why bother. Just explain that this is the way that the plane left the depot. These aircraft were not meant to be showroom concourse winners.

   

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Friday, December 23, 2011 9:22 AM

Tell me about it. I sorta giggle anytime I see someone agonizing about an exact paint shade. (To be honest I do it too, to a point). I read an interview of an RAF crew chief a while back. Whatever a/c he was assigned to was to be re-painted for some reason. Of course they didn't have one vat of the right FS# paint, they had to mix it with what they had on hand. Green, browns, blacks. They tried it three different times & just picked what they decided looked closest to olive drab. Whistling

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Friday, December 23, 2011 10:20 AM

VanceCrozier

 

 jbrady:

 

...the cowling underside gray and the gray under the fuselage do not line up. Apparently, the cowling was removed from the aircraft to be painted, and the same one was not put back on. Additionally, the thin white strip behind the white on the cowling is probably due to overspray past the masking tape put down...

 

 

 

YES!!! There was overspray & mis-aligned paint on the real things - so I've been doing this right for years!!!! Stick out tongue

Ditto

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Friday, December 23, 2011 11:57 PM

DoogsATX

Another badge to consider:

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy86/doogsatx/Random/BBJ_GB_Badge.jpg

Well, I vote for this one because I like good formation shots and because the GB leader ought to get whatever he likes!

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Saturday, December 24, 2011 8:19 AM

It pays to be King!

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Sunday, December 25, 2011 9:23 AM

On its wheels for decaling. Tempted to leave those blast tubes unpainted. I can't find any reference for this airplane having quick id marks on the horizontal stabilizers so I left them off.

   

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Sunday, December 25, 2011 9:58 AM

Looking good! The Master barrels do really well with Alclad...though yeah, totally wish they did them in turned aluminum rather than brass!

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Sunday, December 25, 2011 9:17 PM

How's this for a brain fart?

Closed head injuries suck. Everytime I think I'm fine I do something like this... Any advice on removing decals?

   

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Monday, December 26, 2011 7:01 AM

OKay I got the decals off without damaging the paint. I've got a set of decals for the P-51 B that carried the QP K codes but they are way too small for the Jug. I'll have to order another set. Puts me back for a few days but this thing should be wrapped in a week. More later.

   

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Monday, December 26, 2011 8:04 AM

wow that does hurt dont it? on the up side i really like your t-bolt.i cant wait to see it with new decals. BTW how did you remove them anyway?

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Monday, December 26, 2011 8:54 AM

I burnished painters masking tape over the decal and pulled sharply. Came off in pieces but only left behind the Micro Sol residue. That's easily cleaned. Wouldn't have worked if I had put a coat of clear over the decals though.

   

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Monday, December 26, 2011 11:29 AM

Beer heres to a good save!

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 7:50 AM

You have a right nice Jug going there jbrady. Don't let the setback get you down as that is excellent work. Like you said at least you didn't have a clear coat on before you noticed.

Now that the holiday mayhem has settled I've been able to cut some sprue and start cleaning up cockpit parts. One thing that I have been tinkering with is the Dark Dull Green for the cockpit. Squadron's P-47 in Detail and Scale has some outstanding cockpit photos of a Jug that was wheeled into a hangar and stored prior to any restoration work. Thus, some nice color shots of the Dark  Dull Green. So I took some MM Euro Green (I agree Doogs this a relatively close match) and began to darken it with MM Dark Sea Blue, This is producing a match that I feel rather good about using.

                                                              Joe

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by panzerpilot on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:42 AM

Time for me to clean up my workbench and get crackin' on the GB. I got a Hasegawa 1/32 P47D, that I will do NM, as "Jabo". Anyway, spltting hairs a bit (which is not a bad thing, I suppose). Does anybody know...were the .50cal blast tubes aluminum, SS, or chromed? Thanks.

-Tom

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • From: Austin, TX
Posted by DoogsATX on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 9:07 AM

Joe - I'd love to see pics of the mix when you get the chance. Still a few days from go-time myself so I may just borrow!

Also, my MMP P-47 book shows several cockpits - especially vintage ones - with a mix of DDG and various chromates in the same pit. Contemplating something of the sort. 

On the Bench: 1/32 Trumpeter P-47 | 1/32 Hasegawa Bf 109G | 1/144 Eduard MiG-21MF x2

On Deck:  1/350 HMS Dreadnought

Blog/Completed Builds: doogsmodels.com

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 12:47 PM

I'll be happy to Doogs. Still messing with it a bit.

Glad to announce the receiving of Academy's 1/48 P-47N for christmas. Sweeet!

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 5:42 PM

JBrady: sorry to hear about your decaling woes, hope the new ones work out there.

I wish now I'd picked up the Academy P-47N, I'm afraid things are going a bit slow on the Promodeler version. Not the best fitting kit I've bought in some time. Cockpit photos soon, I should have her closed up by this weekend, I've used a pile of putty so far.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Smithers, BC, Canada
Posted by ruddratt on Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:03 PM

Lots of great work goin' on here fellas. I should be jumping in with my 1/72 Tamiya entry within the next few weeks. Right now my attention is focused on an Eduard 1/48 SPAD XIII, but once that's done, I'll be hittin' this GB full-bore. Did order a vacuform canopy for my jug, as the kit part is too thick to pose open. Plus, it's molded as one piece as is, and when time comes to cut it, I'll be concentrating on preserving the windscreen portion.

Mike

 "We have our own ammunition. It's filled with paint. When we fire it, it makes pretty pictures....scares the hell outta people."

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: MOAB, UTAH
Posted by JOE RIX on Wednesday, December 28, 2011 8:29 AM

Hmmm, Ok having taken my DDG samples and photo out into daylight I find that I am not really that close to mixing the right match after all. I remain undaunted though and have a few more ideas running around in my noggin.

                                    Joe

"Not only do I not know what's going on, I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did". George Carlin

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