Flanker Frenzy 2012

Guys,
Question for you;
Would you know how much wing drop one can expect on the Sukhoi?
I am doing the Su-27 myself, Eduards (Academy) 1:48 and the wings are hanging as if they where following a smooth curve downwards.
I was expecting them to be fairly straight and even straight to the ground (front view).  

blkhwkmatt

That is looking mighty good :)

Very Best Regards
Johan



 

Johan, I can't give you a factually correct answer to your question, but some wing curvature seems to be normal- at least it is on the 1/32 Trumpeter kits as well.

I guess that as long as it is equal on both sides, then it ought to be OK...

hey, lets not change the post headings, kay? I get notifications for "final reveal" or "question" and I have no idea what thread I subscribed to.

Not 100% sure but I think the underside of the wing is horizontal to the ground with no drop.



BTW - I changed the post heading :)

Kind Regards
Utoshita

Well, that answers that question!   Good find, Utoshita- care to join us?

Hi Dre,
I have been following this with great interest, The Su-27 is such a beautiful aircraft a you guys are doing her justice in your builds :)
I would like to join but atm I have no kit? What is your recomendation?

Kind Regards
Utoshita

Utoshita, I'll always recommend a Su-27UB C two-seater, it's the most graceful of the series IMO.

What kit is up to you- what scale do you prefer?   The Trumpeter 1/32 kits are awesome in size, inaccurate in some significant details and the only Flankers available in that scale.   The Academy 1/48 looks to be a great kit- Kaiyudsai did a fantastic Ukrainian bird.   There's a few 1/72 to choose from, it depends on what's available.

It's a popular subject, there's a lot to choose from with a good amount of AM too.

Last post = June 2?!?!?!?! Gotta fix that!

Well I seem to remember promising Saab work over the weekend, but I ended up working on the Flanker...

Cockpit sealed in, will add the stick & bangseat later. That spot at the rear needs a little wash still.

A little putty needed along the nose joins... Not looking forward to fixing the raised panel lines in that spot. They are soooo fine though that I could probably get away with drawing them in afterwards.

WINGS!!! A little too much of a gap at that joint, next time I'll spend some more time & sand down the stubs they mount to the fuselage with.

Love that shape!

Nice start Vance. I'm near to finish mi reggiane ,so i think is time to put the 34 out of the box and contacting nip & tuc for some surgery!

The -34 has a really nice cockpit, I've already started that. I'm running a Soviet cockpit assembly line right now!! The -34 looks to be very similar tooling to the single-seaters from Italeri, so I wanted to assemble one of those first (as I have 3 of them) before I move on to the "big kit".

Nice!   Keep it cranking.   I've been MIA here as I work on a Frogfoot...

Dre

Nice!   Keep it cranking.   I've been MIA here as I work on a Frogfoot...

Yeah, now that the wings are on I can almost smell the paint! Now the last time I built something with twin tailfins was probably an F15 in 1/48 20 years ago. By hand. With whatever gray I could find iirc. Something I've seen mentioned several times reacently is to leave the fins off & paint them seperately, especially with a multi-colour camo pattern. Not sure of these will drop into the slots perfectly though. Thoughts??

Leaving the fins off for painting... while that's a tempting solution for painting, what about the root seams?

On the 1/32 birds there's just enough space between them to get in there to use an AB.

What you ought to be thinking of is leaving the fins off until you can get in there and fully paint and mask the metallics that you'll need for the engine panels....  it'll be really hard to mask that area with the fins installed.   The underside fins might interfere with the lower engine panel painting as well.

If we could get Kaiyudsai to offer some input on how he dealt with these issues?

The root seams - that's the trouble spot, yes. The fins don't seem to "click right in" for sure. Nothing wrong with the fit, but it will need to be glued to keep proper alignment. If I decide to go with enamels, some touchups aren't such a big deal. But if I end up mixing my Tamiya acrylics, man I hate brush-painting those things. Yes, I think the metallics have to be done first & masked off for sure, especially if I'm trying some heat burn/colour modulation stuff.

Maybe I don't have to decide... I could attach one fin, leave one off, that way I have room to get at both, and I'm only taking half the risk of gluing something on after painting...

I'm thinking that you're on the right track- do the engine panels first, then mask them off and attach the fins and do the needful fixes there and shoot the camo lastly.  

Luckily, it ought to be much later in the year before I start exterior painting, so I'll let you guys figure out the game plan first!

Dre

I'm thinking that you're on the right track- do the engine panels first, then mask them off and attach the fins and do the needful fixes there and shoot the camo lastly.  

Luckily, it ought to be much later in the year before I start exterior painting, so I'll let you guys figure out the game plan first!

 

lol - "Captain Wait'n'see" huh!!! I suppose as long as I take it slowly it won't be any big deal to bring the airbrush to bear on the insides of the fins. Applying the tape for the masking may be a little awkward though.

I resemble that remark, sir!

If I remember, the last time that I built a Flanker, I painted in that exact order.  this time, however, I have chosen to go the opposite way.  Here are some more pictures of what I have been working on up to this point.  I first pre-shaded all the major panel lines with black, not too heavy but enough that I thought would work. 

In this picture you can see the pre-shading along with my first attempt as masking for the splinter camo.

More of the pre-shading of the panel lines

Last picture of the pre-shading, at this point I looked at the masking and determined that my method wasn't going to work.

So off came all the masking tape and on went the lighter of the upper camo colors

After that, i enlarged the painting guide in the instructions, and then cut frisket film to mask off the light areas, this was perfect for providing that sharp line required.

When I started to remove the film, some of the lighter shade came up.  I cannot decide between remasking and re applying the lighter color, brushing the color into the lifted areas, or using a shade of a metalizer paint and making it look worn and abused.

I am planning on using hypothetical markings for this build as the decals from Zvezda are less than desireable.  With this thought in mind, I am leaning towards just making it look weathered and abused.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Oh and thanks for looking.

"Oh Lord of the camo!!"

this is the motivation that keep me away from these type of camo LOL

excellent masking work and paint blkhwkmatt

Asap i want to start the su-34 , during search for references i found this russian forum, ciclyng throught the pages for toooons of pictures about the 34

blkhwkmatt - so you are doing the overall camo first, then the metallic areas right? I'm considering doing the reverse. What paints are you using? I was going to suggest that your Super Flanker wouldn't be all that worn yet, but if you are going for hypothetical markings anyway - have fun with the weathering opportunity.

bsyamato - post a link to that Russian forum when you get a chance, never too many resources.

ops .. i was sure i put the link , was 2.00 am when posted

will check this night from the home pc ,sorry

Some more Flanker work on the weeken....

still smoothing out the nose area, rest of the fuselage seems are pretty much done now.

Looking down inside the cockpit, just waiting for the seat now...

Speaking of the seat - needs a little touchup done to the gray areas & a shot of dullcote...

Slapped the wheels together as well...

Also did a bunch of cleanup to the payload.

Nice speed work Vance  

As i promise here the link for the su-34 russian fourum thread 

http://www.mycity-military.com/Avioni/Suhoj-SU-34-Fullback.html

full of pictures but.. if you want to go directly to the essential and best details go here :D

http://paralay.com/su34.html

Looking good, Blkhwkmatt.  To echo Vance, what paints didja use?   I hate, hate, HATE it when paint lifts like that... and you never know until it's too late.   Beautiful masking though- how long did that take?

Vance, looking good too!    The detail on that seat looks so different than other K-36 ejection seats, odd eh?

Bsyamato- great links!  

Keep'em coming and there will be mini Flankers for all!

Dre

Looking good, Blkhwkmatt.  To echo Vance, what paints didja use?   I hate, hate, HATE it when paint lifts like that... and you never know until it's too late.   Beautiful masking though- how long did that take?

Vance, looking good too!    The detail on that seat looks so different than other K-36 ejection seats, odd eh?

Bsyamato- great links!  

Keep'em coming and there will be mini Flankers for all!

Vance and Dre - The paints that I used were Testors Model Master Enamels, Radome Tan for the underside, and the two tone camo upper is Wood for the light shade and Rust for the Dark.  This is as per the instructions (and appears to match fairly closely all the pictures that I have seen).  I think that my problem was that I didn't use a primer (and the Wood shade is a bit old and therefor tacky) and that is why it lifted.  Now, as I look at the bird, the Rust has a very Flat finish to it while the Wood has a bit of a semi-gloss look to it.

I did go back and touch up all the spots, although I tihnk that I am going to have to wet sand it a bit to smooth everything back out.

The masking and painting I think all in all took 4-6 hours, all that I remember is that when I finished it was very late.  If I had to do it again, I would enlarge the painting guide a bit more and then trace all the patterns and transfer that to the frisket film (that stuff is great, flexible and can with care be made to conform to any curve.)  Next step will be to mask off the radome and all the antenna panels and paint them with either gunship grey or a lighter shade of grey.

I wil echo all the other comments, your sanding, filling job is looking sharp!!

Been following this GB with interest & envy!

Looks like I'll be able to make a start soon - I'm down for the SU-27B "Russian Knights" version but have also since got the SU-30MK

Happy to go with your recommendations? The SU-27 is an older kit & not sure the quality of the extensive decals is up to scratch, the SU-30 is a new kit & looks very impressive in those blue clours!

NeedBeer - good to see you getting ready to jump in. Can't say that I've touched either of those kits.

Thanks for those links bsyamato - I'll have to check those out when I'm not at the office!

Dre - the seats… I think may be sort of random! I've been working on all of my Soviet ejection seats at the same time right. Using the Flanker seats as the starting point, my Mig29 seats seem shorter, and the seats from the Su34 look much taller/thinner?? I'm just building this one as-is (but couldn't help adding a little busy-work to the seat) but I may try out an AM seat for the next one I build.

blkhwkmatt - ahhhh, ModelMaster enamels. I love those but my LHS stopped carrying them, then the LHS closed down… Trying to switch to acrylics that I can source easier where I am.

blkhwkmatt

 

 

 

Vance and Dre - The paints that I used were Testors Model Master Enamels, Radome Tan for the underside, and the two tone camo upper is Wood for the light shade and Rust for the Dark.  This is as per the instructions (and appears to match fairly closely all the pictures that I have seen).  I think that my problem was that I didn't use a primer (and the Wood shade is a bit old and therefor tacky) and that is why it lifted.  Now, as I look at the bird, the Rust has a very Flat finish to it while the Wood has a bit of a semi-gloss look to it.

I did go back and touch up all the spots, although I tihnk that I am going to have to wet sand it a bit to smooth everything back out.

The masking and painting I think all in all took 4-6 hours, all that I remember is that when I finished it was very late.  If I had to do it again, I would enlarge the painting guide a bit more and then trace all the patterns and transfer that to the frisket film (that stuff is great, flexible and can with care be made to conform to any curve.)  Next step will be to mask off the radome and all the antenna panels and paint them with either gunship grey or a lighter shade of grey.

I use MM paints exclusively (kinda have to, they're the only paint the LHS stocks!) and I agree that they adhere better with a primer over plastic. I dont know if you did this, but it also helps a whole lot of you de-tack the tape before masking. Stick it on your hand/arm a few times to remove most of the adhesive, then place it on the models. With vigorous de-tacking I usually have no problems, even with acrylics.

And that will be the method I'll use on my flanker. I dont have much of a modeling budget so I'll be using whatever paints I have on hand for my camo (made-up scheme of course!) It looks like my bird will be a few different shades of green, because that's the colors I have most of! LOL

CallSignOWL

 

 

...so I'll be using whatever paints I have on hand for my camo (made-up scheme of course!) It looks like my bird will be a few different shades of green, because that's the colors I have most of! LOL

Hey, it worked for Mother Russian in '42!

I agree with the tape de-tacking - I generally use "Painters Mate Green" tape, and even if I don't need to trim it, I lay it down on my cutting matt once before it gets used on the model.

I wouldn't have thought that enamels would lift like that.... something else to think about as I planned on using enamels to avoid this very issue.

Blkhwkmatt- those are the two colors I used on my mini Flanker done in a similar scheme!

NeedBeer- bring beer and join the fun!   You can't go wrong with either a Su-27 or -30MK.

Owl, can't wait to see what you come up with.