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OFFICAL NATURAL METAL FINISH GB IV 2012-2013

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  • Member since
    January 2012
  • From: Hatfield
Posted by Misty on Monday, December 17, 2012 6:35 AM

Worst ive had with alclad is it going dusty through too high a pressure / too far away and a quick micromesh sorted that. I have had runs, damn great pools of it, but never had it crack.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Monday, December 17, 2012 5:54 AM

I've never used Alclad but let me take a guess at the cracking issue. NMS paints have extremely heavy pigments relative to the agent (lord knows what brew is in alclad but you can bet there's some fancy chemistry). I'd guess that you have to see that they're mixed extremely well - even during a spray. (Hawkeye emphasized that it was vital to keep Talon mixed as well as it could be mixed - recommended BBs in the bottle.) The agent is going to dry extremely fast - it almost has to because if the stuff wasn't as thin as it is the whole approach would fail. An uneven coat due to uneven spraying action or even a slight delay that would allow the pigments to start to settle in the cup would change the relative speed of drying. And with a fragile paint like alclad, uneven drying will break down the cohesion of the film which will lead to cracking or "crazing." I think this could even be effected by the environment. If your surface gets an uneven distribution of air flow one part will dry sooner than another. With that super heavy pigment almost wanting to separate I'd think it would be a really good idea to keep the coat as thin as possible and as even as possible. I'll stand correction on this, but I think cracking and crazing is usually caused by something that's preventing an even drying effect. I had that happen once when I applied Floquil acrylics which dry very quickly over a coat of Golden Fluids which have drying retarders in their mediums to prevent tip clog and to allow "self leveling" which means they dry slowly for an acrylic. (You'll never clog your tip though no matter how long you're painting.) I thought the Golden was dry. It wasn't dry enough so the Floquil film intermingled with the Golden and when it dried fast - instant cracking. You could see the are affected - it looked a little moist. Of course I might be completely wrong. I have Norwegian blood in my veins.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    January 2012
  • From: Hatfield
Posted by Misty on Monday, December 17, 2012 3:19 AM

Looks like a lovely finish on her DJ

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Borlando Fla home of the rat
Posted by TREYZX10R on Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:38 PM

Look'n tight DJ!

  • Member since
    July 2012
Posted by DJinFlorida on Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:36 PM

I had to take a little time off, but I had some time today to get a lot done.  All that is left is the canopy and the decals.

-DJ

On the bench: 1/48 Avenger, 1/72 P40B
On daughter's bench: 1/72 ID4 Attacker
On wife's bench: 1/48 P40B
In the stash:  1/48 P-51D Mustang , 1/72 F4F-4 Wildcat, 1/48 Huey Hog

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Borlando Fla home of the rat
Posted by TREYZX10R on Saturday, December 15, 2012 8:55 PM

Would like to join in if its not too late? I've got a 1/48 revelogram P-47 D,thanks in advance Trey

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • From: Green Bay, WI
Posted by redraider56 on Friday, December 14, 2012 12:01 AM

I put off building for awhile but it looks like I might actually get some decent bench time over the holidays.  With a month break from college, I may just be able to knock out the P-51B.  Last time I touched it I was fitting the Aires cockpit and just about got it fit.  I got the Aires wheel well to but that thing is a royal PITA.  Next time I'll just modify the wheel well myself.

Oh, and Randy,  I won't be getting to the D, so you can take that off the list

I think I might change the markings too.  I can't find the Eagle Strike with "Geronimo" anywhere, and it's more accurate than the Supserscale sheet with the same markings which is currently available from Hannants.  If I can't come across it on ebay or somewhere else before I get to the painting stage, I'll go with either "Queen Jean" or "Lady Beth III" (I do have these decals).

-Matt

On The Bench: 1/48 HK B-17G "Man-O-War II"

On Deck: 1/48 Tamiya P-38H, 1/48 Revell PV-1

 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:39 PM

No never did figure out what caused it. But I did figure out that in very light coats you can spray over Alcald in two hours!

  

  • Member since
    January 2012
  • From: Hatfield
Posted by Misty on Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:50 PM

Looks good to me, seamless! Did you figure out what caused it?

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Saturday, December 8, 2012 12:13 PM

I fixed the problem areas, though after finishing up the rest of the plane while spraying the repair a couple of spots did the same thing in the tail, but yeah, I know how to fix it now!

What do y'all think of the repair?

Nose:

Wing tip:

  All in all, not too bad of a repair process.

  

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:48 AM

Talon is not out there. They made the stuff to order and quit production in August. Any chance that stuff got into contact with anything that resembles "Flow Aid?" In the right place, and right quantity, it's great stuff, but some paints like Pollyscale will crack right away in contact with it. I used Talon on my Texan and it worked splendidly - course I'm used to spraying at very low psi - almost never get over 20. I'm not sure that you could have the stuff crack because it dried too fast: if the psi was too fast it would splatter over creation. One quirk about that stuff - it has to be stirred to the utter max because the pigment separates very quickly. I used the electric mixer before putting it in the brush and stirred the cup a couple of times. Otherwise I'd wonder about some kind of residue on the primer or in your brush.

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Saturday, December 1, 2012 11:27 PM

Thanks Gamera I am planning to add 4 or 5 figures to the flight deck as I am building it posed  on short final so I detailed it a bit. This way I can place in on the gear for static display, or in the air ( hanging in the mancave) As for the rear compartments you cant see much of them so the painting I have already done will due. The rough part of this build will be the figures, all of them will have to be modified to work, and I have never done this before, should be interesting. Why Revell-O-Gram never made flight crew figures for the big bombers or the small ones I will never figure out. And posing the control surfaces should be fun too, especially the flaps. Anyway thats the plan at this point.

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, December 1, 2012 8:17 PM

Randy: looks good! I figured not much would be visible so I didn't take too much time on the interior of my B-29. Sad to hear Talon/SMJ is out of action, I remember SMJ as being one of the first companies to put out a NM line.

Guys, one of the things I learned about Alclad is to never allow the airbrush to stand still. Start spraying off the model and sweep the spray across the kit, and then sweep back again. If painting something like a wing start your strokes at the tip and work back to the wing root. Don't try to get good coverage on each sweep but go all the way up the wing, and then go back to the tip and start back up with a second run. The Alclad will gradually build up to a shiny finish.  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2011
  • From: Palmdale, ca
Posted by Spark84 on Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:49 PM

B-17, I'm using alclads and the same thing happened to me on both of my 51's. i did all the prep work as best i could, had the primer all shiny and ready, and cleaned the surface before spraying anything and i still had this happened in several spots. not too bad on the second go-round though.

i decided it happened in places that i held the airbrush over for too long... once it "pooled" it was all over. I'm sure its just my lack of experience with these paints and airbrushing in general that caused it, and possibly me touching it after cleaning with out a glove on or something... not saying this is what happened to you, just sharing my experience.

luckily the spots on my models are in places where i can cover it up with weathering.

On the Bench: 1/72 Mono B-36 (...UGH)

Last finished: Revell Space Shuttles Enterprise (On SCA) and Columbia (built both for local aircraft museum)

In the Que:

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:41 PM

Oh Gamera his site says he did close it down completely and is looking for a buyer for the Talon SNJ business. Hopefully someone will step up soon.

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:38 PM

B17Pilot man thats the pits buddy ! Looks like something I have had happen with Krylon paint when I have tried to add another coat after a week or so. Have never used Alclad so I have no idea what happened.

So I have been talking about getting at least some work done on the B-29 for a while now. I still dont have much done but figured some pictures of what I have so far are way past due. I did use Doogs trick using black for a base coat for interior green and I like the results.

I still need to add another clear coat and some washes to finish it up but its getting there slow but sure.

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:10 PM

Could be, lighter coats might be worth at least a try.

Good luck!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:07 PM

Dried too fast that might be the problem.  I have to paint outside, and its awefully windy today. I got as close to the model as I dared when I did paint.  That might be the problem.  The primer and gloss black had several days to dry before applying over it.

  

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, December 1, 2012 6:24 PM

B-17: I have had acrylic paint crack like on your wingtip if it dries too fast or at least that's what I think it is. I airbrush in the basement with a wood stove in the winter, it sucks the humidity out of the air and then I used to move the model closer to the stove between coats of paint. I'd lay down some paint like white and yellow really thick and then they'd crack. I started using lighter coats and keeping it alway from from the heat of the stove and the problem stopped.

Not sure if this is in any way related to your problems, as I said I've never had Alclad do this. Other than laying down lighter coats I'm not sure what to tell you. How long did you let the primer coat dry? I don't think the Alclad would craze it but I dunno? Dunce

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    January 2012
  • From: Hatfield
Posted by Misty on Saturday, December 1, 2012 5:50 PM

Damn B17, thats a horror.  Ditto what Gamera said, cant help thinking something oily or soapy must have got onto the surface before you sprayed the alclad.

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Saturday, December 1, 2012 5:14 PM

I used Alclad's primer and gloss black coat, both were fine.  Its my second time to use Alclad.  Didn't have any trouble the first time around.

  

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, December 1, 2012 4:54 PM

Randy: Thanks!!! Did Hawkeye stop producing the entire line!?! I'm normally an acrylic guy and wanted to try the stuff, but as I said I've invested all this money in Alclad products I hate to start on something else now. Still I liked the fact that Talon was out there.

B-17: Did the primer underneath look ok? I forgot what you're using but I've never seen Alclad act like that unless it was the primer or maybe something on the surface that it didn't want to stick to. Hopefully someone else knows what happened there and can help. Gee what a PITA...

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Frisco, TX
Posted by B17Pilot on Saturday, December 1, 2012 2:58 PM

Major Paint fail.  Went to spray on the NMF and several spots decided to wrinkle and act like it won't stick. See for yourselves:

Worst of it after some peeling and sanding.  Will have to had more primer has a couple spots went all the way to plastic.

  And to think I was getting a step closer to finishing this up.

  

  • Member since
    January 2012
  • From: Hatfield
Posted by Misty on Saturday, December 1, 2012 2:04 PM

I was going to get some of haweyes powder too, gutted. I bought some C1 metalizer powder instead. I only used it on the intake ring and the ring around the burners but it seemed ok especially as it was not put on a properly prepared surface . Dont know how it compares to others as it the only stuff ive used

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Saturday, December 1, 2012 1:47 PM

EBergerud Love your Texan !! YesYes All your work using various brands and types of paint paid off in a big way. The T-6 looks well used and comes very close to the pictures you posted of the real thing. Well done sir.

Your finished build picture is on the front page and your badge is there also.

Gamera Glad to see you back working on the jug buddy ! That engine looks great, cant wait to see it sitting behind the cowl. I like the shading on your build as well, and that yellow nose is gonna look great.

I have to say, and this is not taking away from any of the builds in any of the NMG groups. We started out crawling and are now running marathons with the finishes on these NMF builds. Its been amazing seeing how the methods of achieving this finish have progressed over the years. My hat goes off to all of you.  

On another note: I wanted to order some more Talon paints a few days ago and found that Hawkeye has closed down that business. IMHO it was the best NMF paint and powders around, got to where I loaded up the airbrush with it for anything metal on my builds with his paints. Even found if I stripped chrome parts and dipped them in future then used his steel or aluminum powder on them it looked very realistic on nurf bars, firewalls, rims and such.

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, November 30, 2012 8:48 AM

Am making some slow progress with my P-47D:

BING!

BANG!

BOOM!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    January 2012
  • From: Hatfield
Posted by Misty on Thursday, November 29, 2012 1:11 PM

Thanks a million, Vetteman, im very proud of my first badge Bow Down

now if only i could figureout how to use it Embarrassed 

Erbergerund - weathering looks fine to me Toast very good!!

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:50 PM

I'll try to fix the original post: know idea what happened to the photos. Here they are again. They start with two real Texans that show what I was looking to emulate. The next one is the T-6 "metalized" and almost done but unweathered. The rest are the final product: as noted, the effects of the Com.Art paints are not as clear on the photos - you can see it best on the front end and on the bottom. I've noticed in films of NMS fighters that camera angle changes the view greatly - probably the same thing here:

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: USA California
Posted by vetteman42 on Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:23 PM

EBergerud you wrote a great commentary on your build, and the methods you used to achieve the finish, but what happened to the pictures ? I want to get one on the front page and need one for your badge. And I want to see them too Big Smile

Talentless the shading variances on your Lightening are fantastic !! It looks very grimy and used hard and often. Spot on IMHO sir. YesYesBow Down With all the added detail and that finish it is definitely an eye catcher. Your build is on the front page along with your badge, hope you like the badge had a heck of a time getting it to look good.

DJinFlorida you have a nice smooth looking base to start with there, looking forward to seeing what comes next.

B17Pilot that gloss black looks great man Yes Should be a nice base for a very shiny NMF jug for sure.

 

Randy So many to build.......So little time

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, November 29, 2012 8:54 AM

DJ & B-17: Those look just flawless- good work!

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

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