I keep hearing about this Mr Surfacer stuff. As i never prime, i haven't given it much thought. But the more i hear, the more it seems it has other uses. It might just be worth getting some.

Steve I spray that through the AB all the time.  Thin with lacquer thinner to the consistency of any other paint.  The lacquer base gives it great "bite".  If you wanna do texturing with the stuff I would do that with a brush as it seems you may already be doing.

use the 1000 or 1200 for primer.  the 500 is best for texturing.  I have a really old jar of 500 that the top was maybe 99% sealed and over time it really got thick.  That stuff is texturing gold  And filling small gaps too.

Didn't mean to jump in on ya Andy but I happened to be here.

deafpanzer

deafpanzer:  You use this stuff as a  PRIMER?...huh  It sprays through an airbrush?  I've had some real clean-up nightmares with BRUSHES after applying Mr. Surfacer LET ALONE an airbrush!!!

Dave... so you felt the atak zim was so thick you wanted to (had to?) sand it down?

Mail comes in about an hour and hopefully there will be zim.  In the mean time, since I can't do too much, I noticed the welds on the top of the turret looked a little to deep down in a trough so that was filled with Squadron green, wiped with an acetone dampened q-tip and "welded' with one of my little tools for that task.

Kit didn't come with cables for some reason.  I had some extra tow loops in the sparse box.  The loop itself was the exact same size as the one the came in the G that was my 1st ever armor kit  from long ago in the before time.  The sleeve was too thick and long.  I chucked a piece of plastic tube in a Dremel and snaded from .095" to about .082", taped one end and glued the loop cut off the big one to the tube.

I went on a hunting mission yesterday looking for the cord that Carl used on his KT.  1st went to the biggest tackle shop around here... then Micheal,s AC Moore,  Hobby Lobby, Lowe's and Home Depot... NADA.  But I think I got this one all squared away.

I've tried twisting all different kinds of wire in all different combinations and while some were OK... they were just OK.  If the twist was in any way uneven it didn't look right.   I've tried picture hanging wire before but it was of such poor quality... in the way it was twisted... it didn't look good either.   I looked at the picture wire section again and found one I had not seen before made by "Ook".  it covered with a clear plastic sheathing like an electric wire but the twist looked very even.  After taking the plastic off, annealing the cable to soften I tightened the twist and I am very pleased with the way it turned out.  The 1st pic below is a closeup of some wires/cables.  from left to right.. What usual comes in a Dragon kit (looks more like rope than cable), Then the Ook wire with the plastic off before and after annealing and tightening.  And an AM cable for armor.  Except for the fact the twist is opposite... and I won't tell anyone of you don't... the last 2 look pretty darn close to me.

The AM cable... $6 each and ya need 2.  The Ook cables... 9 feet for 3 clams.  At that price the twist nearly looks like it goes the right way after all

Shellback:  Thanks for taking the time to describe your technique...unfortunately you didn't address the one thing I was hoping to learn about most......the dusty sloped armor was what really caught my eye.  I've seen this done before but I've been reluctatnt to try it because I'm worried that it will kill the color too much...yours is very well executed so I was hoping to pick your brain a bit for techniques.

I just make sure the Mrs is well satisfied the night before i want a late one. Works every time

Bish

Looking good Andy, though me thinks you may be takeing protection a tad to far.

LOL!  Thanks guys!  Thought the picture would make you chuckle.  Too much protection?  Are you kidding me?  I wear helmet only when I model into very late night just in case my wife gets out of the bed to nag and throw objects at me for staying up so late... 

Shades of Chukw.  

Mr.S is a great product.

Looking good Andy, though me thinks you may be takeing protection a tad to far.

Carl: Thanks for the walk-though. I have a bunch of pigments but still not too good at using them.

Andy: Nice work! Love Mister Surfacer- not sure now how I ever did without it.

Meet my best friend Mr Surfacer... nobody does better job than those.  I was out of 1200 so I used 1000... just added more Mr Surfacer thinner.  

What do you use for your primer Andy?

Guys- Thanks for the comments!

Jack- Great info about those resin helmets with liners.  Will keep that in mind when I am too old or tired to deal with PE. LOL 

Quick update on my Tiggy... 

Yes it is finally primed... paint is next! 

Carl - Thanks for tips. Immensely helpful.

Andy: Those PE brass helmet lines look insane (insanely awesome that is).

Jack: Thanks for the photos- I didn't even know anyone made brass helmets like that. A little out of my price range I'll warrant but it's still cool just to know stuff like that is out there.

MD: Nice work on the Panther, gee with all the road wheels piled up like that it does look like a zillion of the things.

Joe , Dave , Steve thanks much guys .

About the exhaust and chain weathering . I sprayed them Panzer gray as a base / primer color . I used Mig pigments over that . I use an empty container to mix the colors with water to make a small puddle of paste . Then i dab the paste onto the model with a stiff short bristled brush and let it dry  . When its dry i brush off the excess pigment with a soft long bristled brush . The first pigment was "smoke" . Over that i dabbed "old rust" then "standard rust " . Dont make these colors solid . A blotchy look is what your after . I added some blotches of "smoke " . Final color was "light rust " dabbed near the top curve of the exhaust . There is no straight forward steps to go through to get the look . I went back and forth with the colors and even started over twice . Using window cleaner with that stiff brush works well to remove most of the pigment but it sticks in the paint really well . Just keep working at it and be patient . Move onto another part of the model to break the monotony . A lot of times coming back to it gives you a fresh look at where your at . The chain was a pain , i attached it when it was painted in the panzer gray and it chipped easily . After i had it attached i touched up the gray and then applied the pigments using the three rust colors . I used a little "dry mud " pigment to high light the dust look on the chain .

I think thats about it guys .Good luck and have fun .

Carl

Guys, awesome work!

For those interested in German helmets, here are a few manufacturers.  Both Ultracast and Attack Hobby make resin versions with liners already cast inside.

Or for those wanting to continue working with the shiny bits (and pay a premium price), brass version:

regards,

Jack

Hi guys,

Andy - SWEEEEEET work old chum (as usual) Seeing your post made me remember that I forgot to add a couple of spare helmets to my turret track links but in order to obtain spare helmets at the minute it would mean robbing them from my figure sets I've got saved up - they are moulded to fit actual figures so aren't hollowed out inside. I must buy some dedicated spare helmets - nice PE straps too

SMJ & Hasenpfeffer - I'm simply going to stain that base a darker brown and add four sticky feet and use it as a simple base - I'll sort a nameplate for it next time I'm up town. I'm set on making a base for the Elefant - it's going to be a big build once assembled so I'll either use that big MDF base I have now or see what I can pick up at the UK Hinckley model show in March as I'll be aiming to complete the build around then? Thanks for all the tips re base-making guys as it will all help me!

I'm MUCH happier with that turret hatch closed now. It was totally wrong, should have been wide open and looked like it was just floating! It was bugging me BIG TIME! It would have worked as static scene with figures reloading through the hatch but of course the hatch needed to be wide open. Live and learn!

The Panzer III links are supposed to look like theyve been welded on. I was thinking about making up bolt head and small metal sheet detail to make them look like they'd been fixed that way but I'm ok with them as they are at the minute? Something to look into definately!

I'm chuffed to bit's with the Tiger - definately my best yet (imo at least). I'll be having those professional photos taken by my Godfather who is photography nuts at the weekend - the plan is to make them my completed pics then onto the Elefant (but I'm still not 100% - that Panther G sure does look nice and would make a great second GB entry)!

Cheers fellas - great GB  

Ben

ok i guess the first post didnt work so ill try again. so here;s some more pics. the wheels are all separate luckily, and i've added a few more parts here and there.  the turret was missing the rear hatch so i crafted one from a jagdpanther.  so tonight i should be able to add some pe.

Thanks, Andy. Glad to be here, man. I can admit that I spend a fair amount of time just looking for the pics on the internet. It's a great/cheap way to supplement my modest collection of reference materials. I never tire of coming across new photos, especially ones that show detail. 

Marc- Thanks buddy!!!

Hasen- Great catch there... thanks!  I will check my reference book one more time before I have it primed.  Where do you get all of those great pictures!?!?!?  Dig the pic with helmet hanging that way.  It is really great having you with us in GBs.  

Hey Marc, the set I have is 35041. May be the same one, but since they make about 5 different patterns for Panthers, you never know. If it's the square pattern one that I have, there weren't pistol ports cut out of the turret sides. Not sure why they show it in the product pic.

And yeah, I spent WAAAY more time sanding the back of that stuff (carefully since any catch with the sandpaper was likely to buckle or break the pieces at the score lines) than actually applying it. You can see my learning curve if you look at the build pics.... pretty thick on the chassis/hull to looking pretty good on the upper hull/turret.

I had heard the atak zim was thicker and I was looking for a Cav zim set for this kit but couldn't find one.  I've used the cav zim before  and love it but never tried the atak.  What is the number of the set you have?    The atak set I ordered says it is for the late a and this dragon kit bit the photo show the turret side as having the pistol port hole when the late A turret does not have that feature.  And I think I will chill a bit after this one.  But... ya never know.

Andy, love the added touch of the helmets.  And really dig that liner too.  Nice.

Andy - Those helmet liners look pretty cool. Nice touch. I have an observation: Should the outer most surface of those lifting studs be flat (like pic below)? or did some have the hole/indent?

and good call on that upside down helmet! 

SMJmodeler

deafpanzer:  Cool bin on the turret!  Never seen one with a sloped lid...was that a Tiger item or did you assume that came from another type of tank?  Those figures are awesome!  They will really help set the mood of the build, nice selection!

SMJ- It was another thing learned anew about the Tigers.  Earlier Tigers had either bins from Pz III and Pz IV!  It was confirmed in my favorite bible Achtung Panzer.  Interesting, huh?  If you can look at the actual pictures I posted earlier it was smaller and sloped.  Love this kit!!!  I really like its look better than standard Tiger bin in later models but its much smaller for sure!  

Glad you liked the figures too... love those Alpine figures.  Wish I can afford to buy more... any chance you can loan me some money? 

Hasen- LOLOLOLOL  Sorry I had to add few more PE last night... my goal is to leave everybody blind just like your build!   Thanks buddy!

Guys- Another update... more PE at Hasen's request!!! 

According to the instructions and actual pictures of #3 Tiggy they had helmets handing on both side of the turret.  So I went ahead and added them... it is my preference to add them now than after painted because from my experience the glue doesn't bond well on painted surface and it brings me only nightmares.

Helmets hanging...

The other side I wanted to do something different... hanging upside due to vibration and movement. 

Added PE liner to the helmet after the interior was sanded hollow.  

Hope you like it.  Now I can promise you the Tiggy is ready to be primed.  Gave it a bath last night... 

deafpanzer:  Cool bin on the turret!  Never seen one with a sloped lid...was that a Tiger item or did you assume that came from another type of tank?  Those figures are awesome!  They will really help set the mood of the build, nice selection!

Hinksy:  Concerning your base: May I suggest before you start that you find a real example of the look you want to acheive.  Some photos of actual groundwork that captures the look you want to depict is a HUGE help.

I'd also suggest finding a sheet of some styrofoam...say 1/2" thick to be your ground.  You can cut out the track path and mold the earth without committing it to the base.  If you're not happy, just cut a new piece and try again.  When your satisfied... glue it to the base with Elmer's leaving a 1/2" "frame around the perimeter, protect ththat edge and the rest of the wood with masking tape, mix up a thin batch of plaster and then lather it up...AND don't forget to make fresh track impressions with some spare tracks just before it's dry!

I like to paint the plaster with flat black and then work the color up from there.  Be sure to use the colors that make up your camo' scheme right from the tank...in fact with that three-color camo scheme I'd limit it to just those...or VERY close variations.  Use the wash colors too!

and last but not least...keep it simple.  Hope that helps!

Shellback:  WHOA!!!...hold on buddy!  You're last photo update was on p. 102 and you we're adding some work with colored pencils.  Now I see a dusty hull with cables and chains.  I LOVE that very subtle dusting...can you please describe how you did that? 

Hey fellas, still lurking. I've been reading the email updates on my phone. Between work, Holiday parties and decorating for Christmas, bench time has been very un-Marc-like.  Anyway, after work tomorrow, I'm done until the 2nd, so things will hopefully turn around. Still working on finishing up the details on the Panther, as well as the figure. Updates to follow.

Marc - Sweet, you're building basically the same kit... sounds like you may do a winter scheme? Should be educational. What ATAK zimm set did you order? I think you'll like it. I have a set of the Cavalier zimm that I may use if I do a 2nd build for this GB (which I probably will) and it doesn't look quite as nice right out of the package. Maybe things are different once it's on. The ATAK zimm comes much thicker, so I learned as I went that a lot of sanding is required before application. Anyway, with the little factory you've got going, churning out 5 or 6 builds for this GB should be no problem, right? 

Eric - The kit I'm building is pretty much the Panther A Late premium kit minus the magic tracks (has DS). I've seen it pretty cheap on Dragon USA - as low as $22.95 over Thanksgiving, but I regularly see it on sale for $24.95. The G is usually a couple bucks more.

Ben - Your Tiger came out sweet! I like the hatch closed. It really didn't look right half open. It would have been cool if you could have laid it open, but I understand it messing with the turret traverse. I also think you are making the right move with the base. Any detail you put on that small sucker would have been absorbed by the shear heft of the Tiggy. How are the Pz.III/IV tracks on the front attached? Did maintanence crews weld them in place or should there be some sort of bracket holding them on?

Andy - PE looks terrific. Paint the thing already... I'm getting blinded by all that bling! LOL  (Same goes for you Armor86.) Max looks pretty intense up there on the turret. Love the Alpines. I'll be painting my first one soon.

Carl - I absolutely share everyone else's sentiments. Truly remarkable. Would you share how you achieved the rust effect on the chain/exhaust? I think I am in need of some rust flavored pigments. The streaking is sublime. I love how subtle it is. Looks like you used all the right colors in just the right places. You've definitely put a lot of thought and effort into it and it shows. Great job in getting the weight on that cable and chain. It's hanging just perfect. 

Carl - Your skills and techniques to create realism are nothing short of astounding. That is really jaw dropping fantastic.

Greg,Eric, Bob,Cliff,,Bish,Mark,Ben .............thanks for kind words guys !