Fw 190 Butcher Bird 2013 (extended to June 2014) Group Build

Ok fantacmet, all of this is according to Jerrry Crandalls book Dora Volume 1.

Here's the text on this bird. Apparently there are 3 phases to this scheme. This is the first phase,

and the scheme matches your last scheme:

I had a look at my 190 bible, but there's not much info included regarding Doras. It mostly concentrates on the radial versions. I did find one picture of the bird in question though:

The tail is not visible though, so I can't tell about the yellow area. At least i know that the black 1 is correct now.

I also found a really nice color profile of the Jv.44 aircraft I'm building:

The secon profile is the one from the Eduard painting instructions. They look similar, but the tail is painted completely differently. The Eduard profile shows a brownish color at the tail while the profile in my book has the tail painted with "tiger stripes" in different shades of gray. The rudder also has a few green spots painted on. The most confusing thing about those color profiles is the Werknummer: It's different in both drawings although they resemble the same aircraft...

The 2 pictures i have of this particular bird (thanks to Nathan) don't help that much either:

I think I can make out the beginning of the tiger stripes in the 2nd pic though. There's also a gray rectangular area around the 4 on the fuselage side that is missing in the Eduard drawing but present at the one in the book. I think that the profile I found in the book is more accurate, so I'll go with that one. I think those gray stripes look really cool anyway. The book's profile shows her with the "flat" canopy though while Eduard's shows the "blown" one shown in the second photo. The last difference I found was that Eduard calls out for bare metal at the fuselage extention while the books Diagram shows this area painted like the rest of the fuselage...

Another quite interesting fact about the color profile in the book:

It looks like "Red 4" was repainted at least once with the former fuselage code still being visible: "White <58"

Thanks for posting that info, Joe! I should have a few red 1 decals around here somewhere with all those 190 kits in my stash...

Hey Clemens: I think I have another pic of the D-11 red 4 that shows the tail...

This is thought to be Red 4.

Here's some closely related D-11s to help with your camo:

You can see many of these late birds had the tail extension plug left in aluminum.

Thanks a lot for those pics! Is it just the lighting or are there really stripes on Red 4's tail in that pic? It looks like it is striped to me at least...

Striped mottle you mean?

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It's very visible in the color profile I posted earlier.

Rigidrider

PS... Sorry My Brother Joe R but ... GO SEAHAWKS!

LOL!!! I was worried we wouldnt be able to be bros no more! LOL

Doug

SchattenSpartan

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It's very visible in the color profile I posted earlier.

I'm sure its safe to assume the port side tail camo looks identical to the starboard side I posted, as there are no pics of the port side tail and rudder. What I'm not sure about is how Jerry Crandall knows what type of canopy it had?? I suppose its just assumption it had the blown type as thats what most late war A/C sported??

I don't know about Jerry Crandall, but the 2nd pic in my post shows her with the headrest from the blown canopy. The author of my 190 "bible" is Peter Rodeike (it's a German book) and the color profiles are either his own work or drawn by Claes Sundin.

Nathan T

What I'm not sure about is how Jerry Crandall knows what type of canopy it had??

 On a serious note though, this guy has put out two monster bibles/ volumes on the Dora. That kind of research to pull that off is pretty strong evidence that he knows what he's talkin' about.

+1 on that.  

Rigidrider

Bill, to maybe help with your NMF question, From what I've read, As was with the most of the war (but more so towards the bitter end) the aircraft were never built nor assyembled at one point exclusively, and as the war turned against the Reich, a "Cottage Industry" mentality was relied on even moreso then ever in the past. Many of the components were mfg and shipped to an assy point by numerous points in germany. There are instances where Folks would assy instrument panels and related wireing in sheds and garages out side their homes.

Many of the underside NMF panels and wing sections were sent from their assy points in that way, because they just flat had no paint to put on them, and the upper surfaces were more important to be painted to try to conceal from the now marauding P-47s and P-51s, that had free orders to attack anything they felt was a target. In a nutshell I think thats why you see more NMF undersides. Not that it was desired, just a consaquence of the circumstance.

Doug

Thank you very much, Doug! That was the sort of thing I suspected. I love how a simple question can lead to some real education in here. Model building can be such a history lesson. It's one of the points I make when justifying my love of the hobby to "others". 

Clemens:  Thank you for posting those pics of that mostly NMF 190. That is a sweet looking bird and yes, it would be a great build.

Quite correct Red 4 was originally White >58 (happens to be the one i'm doing). As >58 the tail extension was in fact BM and it may or may not have still been BM for awhile as Red 4, my opinion though is that when they converted it to Red 4 they would have converted her totally it woudn't make sense to leave that piece BM.

FlyItLikeYouStoleIt

Rigidrider

Bill, to maybe help with your NMF question, From what I've read, As was with the most of the war (but more so towards the bitter end) the aircraft were never built nor assyembled at one point exclusively, and as the war turned against the Reich, a "Cottage Industry" mentality was relied on even moreso then ever in the past. Many of the components were mfg and shipped to an assy point by numerous points in germany. There are instances where Folks would assy instrument panels and related wireing in sheds and garages out side their homes.

Many of the underside NMF panels and wing sections were sent from their assy points in that way, because they just flat had no paint to put on them, and the upper surfaces were more important to be painted to try to conceal from the now marauding P-47s and P-51s, that had free orders to attack anything they felt was a target. In a nutshell I think thats why you see more NMF undersides. Not that it was desired, just a consaquence of the circumstance.

Doug

Thank you very much, Doug! That was the sort of thing I suspected. I love how a simple question can lead to some real education in here. Model building can be such a history lesson. It's one of the points I make when justifying my love of the hobby to "others". 

Clemens:  Thank you for posting those pics of that mostly NMF 190. That is a sweet looking bird and yes, it would be a great build.

jugjunkie

Quite correct Red 4 was originally White >58 (happens to be the one i'm doing). As >58 the tail extension was in fact BM and it may or may not have still been BM for awhile as Red 4, my opinion though is that when they converted it to Red 4 they would have converted her totally it woudn't make sense to leave that piece BM.

If you look at the pic of red 4's tail I posted, it still looks to be bare metal. It is for sure a different hue than the rest of the fuselage. Its hard to be 100% certain though.

FlyItLikeYouStoleIt

By the way guys, I'll be going to the "Hope it Don't Snow" model show in Rochester Minnesota on Feb 1st. I plan to show everything that I've finished in the past year: my Spitfire Mk IIb, Fw190A5, Speeder Bike, STAP (with droid if I finish him in time), and Dual .50 cal AA.

I was kind of surprised that the Rochester show isn't in the list of "Events" in our forums here. It is sponsored by an IPMS club after all

  I'm planning on being there too.  I've gone the last 2 years.  I've got a S-3A viking, Albatros DIII, a couple for FW190's.  I had bigger plans for more stuff to bring but I didn't finish all if it.

I'll see ya there.

John

Thanks for all your help, guys! I think I'll go with the following:

• painted-over White "58>"
• striped mottling on the tail (it looks like it is striped in that photo)
• "blown" canopy
• bare metal fuselage extension

Regarding the "cottage industry":

Many aircraft produced in the last years of the war were assembled out of parts coming from a lot of those garage/basement workshops. The fuselages for the He 162 were built in a closed mine here in Austria for example...

Even here in America during the war alot of "cottage industries" sprang up. Not so much as in Europe, but for example, There was a small shop a street behind the one I grew up on in Detroit, where my Grandma used to sew parachutes together for the war effort. Shoot... it wasnt much larger then a average sized auto repair garage.  I wasnt around till about 8 yrs after the war ended, but I used to here the stories about both my grand dads working in the war plants, 1 at the Willow Run assy plant where Ford built the B-24s and 1 working at the Kaiser plant making trucks and jeeps and such. A terrible time indeed but still ...

Doug

It's about time I got around to sharing some update pics. It's been slow progress lately but some progress nonetheless. I added a dusting of ISO thinned Tamiya Buff. Then added the exhaust stain using Tamiya weathering pastels. Just down to the last few bits. Weathering the bombs, gluing on the landing gear and adding the antenna. Also, some added effects to the guns.

Gaaahaleee!!! Wow Joe!! Now THAT is a "bad A" paint job!! Nice job man!! AND in 72nd!!

Awesome finish, mate! I still can't believe it's 1/72... What did you do your panel line weathering with?

Man that is classy!! Great job Joe.

Alright Joe!!! Glad to see the progress...great work!

Thank You Very Much Gentlemen.

Clemens: I pinwashed my panel lines with Mig Abtielung weathering oils thinned with turpenoid.

Time to get this puppy back on page 1.

Joe, that is a beautiful paint job, absolutely beautiful!  That was great perserverance on the repair work.  I can't honestly say I would have stuck with it; I would have most likely tossed the whole thing out of frustration. 

Those are some (of the many) things I really need to work on with my modeling; my patience and persistance.

Allen