2015 Messerschmitt Bf 109 Group Build

lawdog114

70:  Nice K-4.  Love the late war brown scheme.  The Tamiya Emil is my favorite...cheap, good detail and a breeze to build.  It could use some love in the cockpit.  I usually add a PE set and replace the seat. The Eduard one is much more detailed OOB and needs no AM, but a pain to build like their FW 190 series, especially if you want your models closed like me.  Hasegawa has an Emil too but I have no experience with it.    

Marc:  Again..incredible Winter scheme.

Brandon: Killer Emil.  I see your trying the black basing technique.  Your RLM mix is dead on.  Those Tamiya Emils fall together like the Spits. Your Spanish 109 is incredible too....

Allen:  Beautiful work so far.  

Joe: So help us with the math, how long did that Cuda sit on that base?  I'll remember that if I ever build one with rubber wheels.  

Fightinjoe:  Speechless....your work is incredible...

Eagle: I didn't know Otaki made a 109.  Great start...

Joe

Hey lawdog,

Yep, I also have the 190A-8 and the Spitfire Mark VIII from Otaki.  The kits seem to be really nice.  Great detail on the outside, not as much in the cockpit, but nice.  And the plastic seems a bit soft, but they are fun kits and the fit is really good, at least on this kit.

Eagle90

Mike the mix that I found for RLM 75 IS XF24 5 parts and xf50 1 part. I haven't used this mix yet but it makes sense. 75 had a violet hint to it and the field blue 50 would give it that

JG, it was not unusual to see many interpretations of what something was "supposed" to be. This was also a problem with armor, thus you would see schemes that looked like they were painted by Picasso and others that were more in line to what we feel today, the expectations of the order. Spirals were masked and painted by hand, variances would occur.  Colors from the same batch of paint would look different based upon what was used as a reducer. Unless someone comes up with a variety of color photos for a specific aircraft, and even then how the film was processed would affect what the colors looked like, it is hard to say what was "correct" or not. I know I took this way past your spinner statement, just not that easy to stop once I get going.

Spirals on  spinners - I recall reading about this elsewhere, with the following link being a reference:

http://ghostbombers.com/markings/bands1.html

Of particular note is this entry:

4) All fighter a/c of Luftflotte 3 and Reich are to have a black and white spiral painted on the spinner. Size one and a half spirals turning in the same direction as the spinner. Width ⅕ of the diameter of the spinner.

-------------------------------

Looking at period photos, there is obvious differences in sizes, so maybe the order was not fully understood per above, or it was purposely done to be different?

regards,

Jack

Joe (lawdog) and Joe (mustang) I also built plenty of t he monogram muscle cars in the early 80's. What are we all in our mid forties

PS... Clemens makes a good point too!

Morning LawDog... (and all) I appreciate the info on the mixtures. What type of measurement is used to keep the mixtures constant? I mean, what process and measurement medium do you use. I have in the past only guessed at it using "Dosage cups" which a local Pharmacy is kind enough to save for me, and a pipette.

As far as the spirals on the spinners, I ran across that topic once in one of the books I have, it was mentioned that at first, yes, the spirals were not only applied to the spinners but to the front of the prop blades in an attempt to throw off the aim of the gunners on the bombers, But later were just seen as a way to mark their aircraft. Thats like a concept that I have never been able to grasp, painting a night fighter pale blue (76) . I understand that looking down on an attacker painted solid black looks like a blob blocking out the light of the landscape below, but pale blue???  Thanks again...

Doug

I'm pretty sure those spirals were painted on to keep the ground crews from walking into turning props.

Thunderbolt379

Bish -- I mix my own RLM 74/75 and 76 in Tamiya Acrylics -- here's my blog post that discusses the ratios. I'm still using the same ones today, I did the Fw 190 A-8 last year using them (though I have substituted MM Acryl 76 as it's spot on -- but their 74 and 75 are miles out.)

"Their [Tamiya's] formula for RLM 76 (XF-2 Flat White plus XF-23 Pale Blue plus XF-66 Light Grey at a ratio of 7:1:2, provides a virtually perfect match for the original, lacking only lustre, and an addition of 25 to 30% X-22 Clear Gloss approximates the sheen of the original RLM colours. Unfortunately, their suggested formulas for the 74 and 75 are miles off, and I experimented to find a decent fit. For 74 they recommend XF-24 Dark Grey and XF-27 Schwartzgrun at 3:2, but this was too dark and too green, especially compared to the Model Master enamel equivalent. I reduced the ratio to 3:1 and added 1 part Flat White as well, then brought up the lustre with 30% Clear Gloss. For the 75, Tamiya suggests XF-51 Khaki should be a component, but as 75 has no green hue at all this mystifies me. I mixed it from scratch, starting with XF-24 Dark Grey and adding Flat White at a ratio of 2:1, then adding 30% Clear Gloss. On reflection this was too much gloss, as darker shades reflect more strongly than lighter ones, and 20% would have been ample. The final shades were acceptably similar to the Model Master enamel equivalents, though I have to say the acrylics are both more delicate and lack a certain 'gutsiness' that the solvent-based paints have."

Cheers, M/TB379

Indeed....Tamiya's RLM suggestions are way off.  I find Gunze to be the best representation to my eye.  

Mustang: I built model cars in the early 80s too.  I loved those Monogram muscle cars.  It would seem we are almost the same age

Clemens: Nice pics....IMO...All 109s should have spinner spirals. Like all P-40s need sharkmouths.....anyone know if there was a real purpose for the spirals?  Maybe to hypnotize?

Joe

Eagle: I had look at my references. Here's what i came up with:

First of all, according to the book on Barkhorn, that particular G-6 did have a spinner spiral:

There's also a pretty nice color profile of this machine in that book:

I'm just gonna go ahead and throw all the good photos I got in here:

I hope these help...

Cheers, Clemens 

Eagle90: I'm with Joe. I didn't even know Otaki had a 109 in their line up. Looks like your handling the body work good so far and as far as the prop spinner goes I remember a spiral on his spinner. Will check my references.

Clemens: I'll look in my references too and see if I can shed some light on this as well. The more the merrier. lol

Joe: That Cuda sat on that base for right around 30 years. Seems almost like yesterday when I built it.

Mike: Now that's getting down to the "nitty gritty" for an accurate color! Wow! Bringin' it down to a science!

Bish -- I mix my own RLM 74/75 and 76 in Tamiya Acrylics -- here's my blog post that discusses the ratios. I'm still using the same ones today, I did the Fw 190 A-8 last year using them (though I have substituted MM Acryl 76 as it's spot on -- but their 74 and 75 are miles out.)

"Their [Tamiya's] formula for RLM 76 (XF-2 Flat White plus XF-23 Pale Blue plus XF-66 Light Grey at a ratio of 7:1:2, provides a virtually perfect match for the original, lacking only lustre, and an addition of 25 to 30% X-22 Clear Gloss approximates the sheen of the original RLM colours. Unfortunately, their suggested formulas for the 74 and 75 are miles off, and I experimented to find a decent fit. For 74 they recommend XF-24 Dark Grey and XF-27 Schwartzgrun at 3:2, but this was too dark and too green, especially compared to the Model Master enamel equivalent. I reduced the ratio to 3:1 and added 1 part Flat White as well, then brought up the lustre with 30% Clear Gloss. For the 75, Tamiya suggests XF-51 Khaki should be a component, but as 75 has no green hue at all this mystifies me. I mixed it from scratch, starting with XF-24 Dark Grey and adding Flat White at a ratio of 2:1, then adding 30% Clear Gloss. On reflection this was too much gloss, as darker shades reflect more strongly than lighter ones, and 20% would have been ample. The final shades were acceptably similar to the Model Master enamel equivalents, though I have to say the acrylics are both more delicate and lack a certain 'gutsiness' that the solvent-based paints have."

Cheers, M/TB379

Thanks, Joe!

Eagle, looking good so far!

-BD-

Nice start eagle.

Guys, eagle and myself were chatting about the scheme. he mainly use's Tamiya acrylics. I could help him with the colours for his Stuka build, but have no idea on this one. Can anyone give any suggestions on mixes for  RLM 74, 75 and 76.

70:  Nice K-4.  Love the late war brown scheme.  The Tamiya Emil is my favorite...cheap, good detail and a breeze to build.  It could use some love in the cockpit.  I usually add a PE set and replace the seat. The Eduard one is much more detailed OOB and needs no AM, but a pain to build like their FW 190 series, especially if you want your models closed like me.  Hasegawa has an Emil too but I have no experience with it.    

Marc:  Again..incredible Winter scheme.

Brandon: Killer Emil.  I see your trying the black basing technique.  Your RLM mix is dead on.  Those Tamiya Emils fall together like the Spits. Your Spanish 109 is incredible too....

Allen:  Beautiful work so far.  

Joe: So help us with the math, how long did that Cuda sit on that base?  I'll remember that if I ever build one with rubber wheels.  

Fightinjoe:  Speechless....your work is incredible...

Eagle: I didn't know Otaki made a 109.  Great start...

Joe

Looks good so far!

I plan on building one of Barkhorn's G-6s (he flew several of them) as well. I have a book about Barkhorn with some excellent pictures and color profiles in it. Give me a bit of time and I'll post some of them.

Man, there are some awesome builds here!  Not sure I can keep up with these levels of workmanship.  Great work everyone!

I finally got some time to hit the bench and start the 109!  I'm going to do my best to build this one as close to Gerhardt Barkhorn's G6 that he got his 250th victory in!  Coming up with mixed details in my research, but it will be close.  Right now the biggest thing I need to know is what the Prop spinner was colored.  I've seen a black and white spiral and a 2/3 green and 1/3 white spinner.  Any help with that would be greatly appreciated!

Not much to show right now.  The Otaki kit is very nice.  Not much on super detail for the cockpit, but the exterior is very nicely done.  Also noticed the plastic is a little softer than normal, kinda like an Airfix plastic.  The fit is pretty good too.  Not much filling at all really.  Also going to pull a German pilot from my Hasegawa WWII Pilot Figure Set.  That is the one very pathetic thing about this kit...the pilot is not even worth putting in the spares box!  He will go to the trash.

So enough talk, here are a few pics of the 109 G6.

Eagle90

It's gonna be good to have you in here again Doug!

Thanks Jay. I honestly didn't think of that, even with it being kinda obvious.

I just finished sanding all the seam lines on my Eduard G-6. It's a beautiful kit, but one thing that frustrates me to no end are the rivets. They are so fine that just a few very gentle passes with one of my finer sanding sticks removed most of the rivets on the nose. Looks like i gotta find a way to get those punched back in. I suppose a sewing needle should do the trick?

Truly amazing work FJ...Some day I may work up the nerve to try what you have so skillfully done, but not today! lol... Fantastic work thus far!

Joe (mustang)  Give me about a week (or so) and I will start a second build, As I had mentioned to you earlier, It will be a Hasagawa 1/48 Bf109"E"-7 , which will represent one of the 5 sent to Japan in 1942 by the Germans , quite a feat being they were broken down and shipped in submarines, then reassy. and tested by the Japanese. These aircraft were the standard camo colors of 74/75/76 with an 02 mottling on the fuselage sides and the rising sun national markings where the crosses were normally placed. At the time they carried no guns, and after testing were rejected in whole, excluding the DB605 engine which the Japanese reproduced under license and used in their KI61 Hein.

Its going to be odd seeing this aircraft with "Meatballs" on her.

Thanks

Doug

Jay: It's great to see you in here again and now with a K-4. This'll be fun to watch!

Clemens: Good to see you round these parts again!

You can just file out the door along the panel line.

Jay

I also noticed most G-2s had a retracting tail gear assembly. The big Hasegawa kits all seem to lack that one (looks like on the G-6). Is there any AM stuff to correct that or is some scratchbuilding in order if I want to fix it?

Thanks! I already got a G-6 spinner from BarracudaCast and they look really nice, so I think I'm gonna go with another one of their spinners on my K-4. Plus, they come with the prop blades already. I'll have a look at the Eagle Editions stuff though, seems like they got a lot of nice 109 stuff. For the cockpit I'm actually considering an Aires set. I can get those at a local modelling show next Saturday for a really good price. Those Quickboost exhausts are definitely on my shopping list for that day too.

The Eagle Editions cockpit is awesome. I used one on a previous build, but I am going to try an MDC pit on this one. I have both in stock but want to see how the MDC compares. I have used several on other versions and they are very nice. I love the G-factor landing gear legs. Either an Eagle Editions or BarracudaCast spinner, and BarracudaCast wheels. Quickboost or MDC exhaust. MDC shell ejection chutes. Eagle Editions oil cooler housing. Some of my favorite AM for 109s.

Jay

Jay, Tamiya liquid surface primer then Model Master Acrylic RML's. Going a basic two color North Africa Sept 42 stock from the box pattern. Wish to get some more airbrush time on plastic before trying a camo pattern. Thinking of giving preshading a go.

I got you added to the build roster, Jay!

I plan on building my K-4 as well for this one. Any recommendations regarding AM parts?

Bob, I have been wondering how you are coming along. Looking forward to seeing pictures of your progress. What paint and primer are you going to be using?

Jay

Jay... Your just a model'in machine!

It's truly inspiring to watch you guys both build and share. I'm still building, also reading here and elsewhere much more than I'm building. All in good time. Hope to have it primed by early next week. Bought a new Patriot 105 and had some VGO's to overcome (valuable growth opportunities). Trust me, I can now just about disassemble and assemble a Patriot in the dark. This is after taking the valve off and learning it does not stay in one piece. Thankfully I have an Amazon warehouse VERY near. I can get something set on my doorstep within 26 hours if I order by 5pm. I make every effort to buy from my very well stocked LHS, but some things he just doesn't carry in inventory. I want to spend a few more hours practicing before priming the 109.

Bob

Joe, I want to re-up with a 1/32 Hasegawa K4. I have several decal sheets for the K so I haven't decided on scheme just yet.

Jay