modelcrazy

 

Bish

Was anyone aware of the after effects of the A bomb at the time, as if they were i am sure that could have been another factor.

 

 

I believe they knew some of the after effects, however I don't believe they thought it would be as widespread or long lasting. Looking at some of the testing in the south Pacific shows that we just didn't understand the lasting effect of radiation. I'm not sure however that would have made any difference in the decision. Truman was racing the clock with Russia and he didn't want to lose another several hundred thousand solders.

 

I was just woundering, if there was any idea of the effects, would they have wanted to drop a bomb in the heart of Europe, given that unlike Japan, an island, Germany was surround by American Allies they were meant to be liberating.

Well, in what I'd worked out Dr. Robert Oppenheimer had a crisis of conscience about giving the world the most destructive weapon yet and sabotoged the experimental Trinity bomb. With the Mahatten Project a 'failure' the Allies proceeded with Operation Downfall. US/UK/Commonwealth troops poured into the southern Japanese home islands as Stikpusher related and then Soviet troops launched a full scale assault to the north. Later Doctor Edward Teller and other atomic scientists and engineers discovered the truth and Oppenheimer confessed but by now the full scale bloodbath was raging. Some Japanese held out up until the late '40s and Japan ended like Germany and Korea a divided nation.

I'm not totally sure anyone knew too much about the radiation and other lingering effects of the blast, check out the history of the movie ' The Conqueror' (1956) with John Wayne as believe it or not Genghis Khan (?). It was shot in the western American desert near where 11 A-bombs were detonated. Afterward 91 of the 220 cast and crew contracted cancer, by the '80s 46 having died from it. Check it out, interesting story. 

Bish

 

 

modelcrazy

 

Bish

Was anyone aware of the after effects of the A bomb at the time, as if they were i am sure that could have been another factor.

 

 

I believe they knew some of the after effects, however I don't believe they thought it would be as widespread or long lasting. Looking at some of the testing in the south Pacific shows that we just didn't understand the lasting effect of radiation. I'm not sure however that would have made any difference in the decision. Truman was racing the clock with Russia and he didn't want to lose another several hundred thousand solders.

 

 

 

 

I was just woundering, if there was any idea of the effects, would they have wanted to drop a bomb in the heart of Europe, given that unlike Japan, an island, Germany was surround by American Allies they were meant to be liberating.

 

Gamera

Well, in what I'd worked out Dr. Robert Oppenheimer had a crisis of conscience about giving the world the most destructive weapon yet and sabotoged the experimental Trinity bomb. With the Mahatten Project a 'failure' the Allies proceeded with Operation Downfall. US/UK/Commonwealth troops poured into the southern Japanese home islands as Stikpusher related and then Soviet troops launched a full scale assault to the north. Later Doctor Edward Teller and other atomic scientists and engineers discovered the truth and Oppenheimer confessed but by now the full scale bloodbath was raging. Some Japanese held out up until the late '40s and Japan ended like Germany and Korea a divided nation.

Moff

 

Bish

 

 

modelcrazy

 

Bish

Was anyone aware of the after effects of the A bomb at the time, as if they were i am sure that could have been another factor.

 

 

I believe they knew some of the after effects, however I don't believe they thought it would be as widespread or long lasting. Looking at some of the testing in the south Pacific shows that we just didn't understand the lasting effect of radiation. I'm not sure however that would have made any difference in the decision. Truman was racing the clock with Russia and he didn't want to lose another several hundred thousand solders.

 

 

 

 

I was just woundering, if there was any idea of the effects, would they have wanted to drop a bomb in the heart of Europe, given that unlike Japan, an island, Germany was surround by American Allies they were meant to be liberating.

 

 

 

 

I was thinking that there may have been something else going on. I don't want to say "racism", but maybe "cultureism" or something. Japan's culture was rather alien, and most Americans didn't understand it. The landmarks and cultural history of Japan were not held in high regard. In the case of Europe however, everyone knew what German culture was, and what it had contributed to European culture  general. I think the decision to drop the Bomb on Germany may have been vetoed on that reason. 

 

 

The issue of racisim has been raised, i'e. the Germans were white the Japanese were not. But the counter to that is the evidance of what was done to German cities with conventional bombs.

Bish

 

 

Moff

 

Bish

 

 

modelcrazy

 

Bish

Was anyone aware of the after effects of the A bomb at the time, as if they were i am sure that could have been another factor.

 

 

I believe they knew some of the after effects, however I don't believe they thought it would be as widespread or long lasting. Looking at some of the testing in the south Pacific shows that we just didn't understand the lasting effect of radiation. I'm not sure however that would have made any difference in the decision. Truman was racing the clock with Russia and he didn't want to lose another several hundred thousand solders.

 

 

 

 

I was just woundering, if there was any idea of the effects, would they have wanted to drop a bomb in the heart of Europe, given that unlike Japan, an island, Germany was surround by American Allies they were meant to be liberating.

 

 

 

 

I was thinking that there may have been something else going on. I don't want to say "racism", but maybe "cultureism" or something. Japan's culture was rather alien, and most Americans didn't understand it. The landmarks and cultural history of Japan were not held in high regard. In the case of Europe however, everyone knew what German culture was, and what it had contributed to European culture  general. I think the decision to drop the Bomb on Germany may have been vetoed on that reason. 

 

 

 

 

 

The issue of racisim has been raised, i'e. the Germans were white the Japanese were not. But the counter to that is the evidance of what was done to German cities with conventional bombs.

 

Hey Moff there was probably some racism there but I think it was more the attitude of the respective foes. Germans and Italians with the exception of some fanatic SS types would surrender if forced into a hopeless position. The Japanese didn't, someone once commented that Japanese POW was almost a counterdiction in terms. Besides the Kamikaze Japanese infantry textbooks stated that troops pinned down in a hopeless situation should launch Banzai attacks- aka charge into the enemy trying to take out as many as possible before being killed. 'Surrendering' Japanese would walk up to Allied troops with a grenade or demo charge hidden in their clothing and then charge into a crowd before detonating themselvies. Basically the whole mindset was so alien to Westerners that that it created most of the problems.

I'm not sure the A-bomb wouldn't have been used on Germany. The UK had been at war for six long years and the US wanted the whole mess over so I not sure any 'quick, cheap, & dirty' method to end the war would have been rejected. Heck, in Korea seroius plans were made to use tactical nukes to take out Chinese suppy sites along the North Korea border. And then you had stuff that looks crazy to us today like the Honest John and atomic artillery shell.  

Gamera

a grenade or demo charge hidden in their clothing and then charge into a crowd before detonating themselvies. Basically the whole mindset was so alien to Westerners that that it created most of the problems.

And it still is alien to us today.

I was watching another documentary, again on YouTube. "Greatest Tank Battles" in the Pacific, and it showed, I don't remember which battle, 100's of Japanese medium tanks running a Banzai charge against Sherman’s. I looked like Sherman’s against Tigers. The Sherman’s were just wiping them out and shells were bouncing off the Sherman's armor.

I also listen to Old Time Radio on XM, and a few months back I was listing to a comedy show, I don’t remember which one (not Jack Benny, he was too honorable for this), but a question was asked of someone who had recently returned from Hiroshima about what the city looked like. This guy went on to explain the destruction he saw in a comedic way, and this caused laughing in the audience! I was so ashamed of this. I guess I had to live through that time, to have so much anger and hate to find destruction like that funny.

Very true Steve, we were told to avoid politics so I wasn't sure if I should say anything about modern suicide bombers or not. 

I'll have to look up that 'Greatest Tank Battles' clip. I remember reading somewhere about the Japanese strapping bombs to the front of some of their tanks and ramming Shermans. 

There is a recreation of the battle of Kalkin-Gol/Nomonhan in the Korean movie 'My Way'. Our hero a is Korean drafted and sent to fight in China and ends up in this battle. Here Japanese troops pushed into Mongolia which was held by the USSR at the time and basically got curb stomped by Marshal Zhukov starting his rise to fame. Not too accurate but it does show an interesting scene of Japanese trucks loaded with explosives ramming BT-5 light tanks.

Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuUR95-o_fw

Pretty crazy about the radio clip, though I guess it's not too different from when I watch some old movie where some black comic is treated in a way that makes me go 'Oh my gawd!?!?!' 

PS: Is the embed feature broken? I've tried posting movie clips a few times here and they never seem to work. 

Gamera

Hey Moff there was probably some racism there but I think it was more the attitude of the respective foes. Germans and Italians with the exception of some fanatic SS types would surrender if forced into a hopeless position. The Japanese didn't, someone once commented that Japanese POW was almost a counterdiction in terms.

 

modelcrazy

 

I also listen to Old Time Radio on XM, and a few months back I was listing to a comedy show, I don’t remember which one (not Jack Benny, he was too honorable for this), but a question was asked of someone who had recently returned from Hiroshima about what the city looked like. This guy went on to explain the destruction he saw in a comedic way, and this caused laughing in the audience! I was so ashamed of this. I guess I had to live through that time, to have so much anger and hate to find destruction like that funny.

 

modelcrazy

I was watching another documentary, again on YouTube. 

 

That's what I do all the time while scale modelling!

Gamera

There is a recreation of the battle of Kalkin-Gol/Nomonhan in the Korean movie 'My Way'. Our hero a is Korean drafted and sent to fight in China and ends up in this battle. Here Japanese troops pushed into Mongolia which was held by the USSR at the time and basically got curb stomped by Marshal Zhukov starting his rise to fame. Not too accurate but it does show an interesting scene of Japanese trucks loaded with explosives ramming BT-5 light tanks.

Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuUR95-o_fw

 

Lol, I loved the Russians driving around in tanks with half their bodies sticking out the hatches. I mean what's the point of having a tank if you're not getting inside the thing when the bullets start flying- but if they did the Japanese officer couldn't climb up on a tank and stab the Soviet tank commander with his katana... 

Funny, the same director did two movies about the Korean War, 'Brotherhood of War' and 'Frontline' that seem pretty accurate. 

Never done one of these and am not 100% sure on the rules.

Would the VK 1602 Leopard be acceptable?

Gamera

Funny, the same director did two movies about the Korean War, 'Brotherhood of War' and 'Frontline' that seem pretty accurate. 

 

He probably threw in the towel on "accurate filmmaking" after the rivet counters started circling. But you know what happens to accuracy when a film has a "high budget" and a "star-studded" cast...

JayW

Never done one of these and am not 100% sure on the rules.

 

Would the VK 1602 Leopard be acceptable?

 

Under the rules that any design cancelled before the war ended counts, this one sure does. Which kit do you have in mind, Hobby Boss or Amusing Hobby.

The rules are on page one, but they are pretty basic. Your kit is good, other than that, no building until 1st jan and post progress pics as you go. Anything else, just ask. And be sure to check page 2 and have your vote.

Yeah i figured it would work under that provision but didnt want to take any chances.

I am leaning towards the  Hobby Boss kit, the reviews seem favorable, espeically the one on FSM.

Moff

 

 

Gamera

Funny, the same director did two movies about the Korean War, 'Brotherhood of War' and 'Frontline' that seem pretty accurate. 

 

 

 

 

Wikipedia says that "After a 7-year hiatus, in 2011 Kang unveiled his film My Way, set during World War II with a star-studded pan-Asian cast and the highest budget to date for a Korean film". 

 

He probably threw in the towel on "accurate filmmaking" after the rivet counters started circling. But you know what happens to accuracy when a film has a "high budget" and a "star-studded" cast...

 

Yeap, I think you just hit the nail right on the head there 

JayW: Sounds pretty darn cool to me! 

JayW

Yeah i figured it would work under that provision but didnt want to take any chances.

 

I am leaning towards the  Hobby Boss kit, the reviews seem favorable, espeically the one on FSM.

 

I have seen a few Hobby Boss kits built on here and they always look nice. But from what i have seen from the two Amusing Hobby kits i have and reviews i have read, i think, they have a good pedegree as well. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Let me know which you decide and i can add it to the roster. 

I just ordered the Hobby Boss kit.

Speaking of which, I just noticed there was a Trumpeter Set of AM tracks for it, any idea if they are an improvement or not? 

Jay, I found some reviews on both the kit and Trump tracks. Personally, I would not bother. Both are individual links with separate guide horns. This review did not rate the Trump tracks.

http://www.track-link.com/reviews/2186

Here's another WTH list of possible 1946 subjects:  Jet aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_jet_aircraft

The Ryan Fireball?  Wonder if I could put code letters "XL5" on the side?

And, if I did so, would it have to be in British markings? 

Gary

Nice list GAF. I always wondered at the name 'Fireball' myself. Considering how dangerous early jets were wasn't that kinda like naming a car 'Crash and Burn' or a submarine 'Sinker'? 

I ordered from Lucky Model once. They are out of Hong Kong I believe and I have no big issues with them. But I don't think they have any of the stuff in stock, instead ordering it from the factory or distributer when you order it. Therefore you'll have to wait a bit for them to get it. And in some cases, well I ended up waiting over a month for my order since they were having issues with getting one resin figure in. And I didn't see any option simply to cancel the figure and have them send the order. If you're not in a hurry it's a fine company to deal with but I've found I can generally get the same things from other companies as well. 

And the Voyager PE, I've picked up a set by them and it's extensive- way more than Eduard. I haven't had the guts to try the stuff yet. 

Gamera

And the Voyager PE, I've picked up a set by them and it's extensive- way more than Eduard. 

Interesting. Does anyone know what ET Model photoetch is like?