Pride of the Luftwaffe GB

Doug, looking great that Sturm bird.  The altered colours and non-standard camou pattern on the wings certainly lend an air of  'disarray' of some late war equipment.

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This will sound anal to some, but it should be pointed out that since you've added the horizontal bar symbol (over the white band), this puts this as a II. Gruppe aircraft - and it was already established that JG 3 had only the 190A in their IV. Gruppe.

regards,

Jack

Rigidrider

 

so she does her best to find me things to do! Lolol...

  

Oh Yes, the dreaded "list" lol.

plasticjunkie

The 190 is looking fantastic Doug. Great job on the paint and markings.

People tell me I have nothing but time cuz I'm retired. Well, I have no clue where time goes. Even if a day had 48 hours, I still need more time. I find myself busier now than when I was working 40-45 hours a week.

 

Hunter... Thank you so much, I really do appreciate the kind words.

Take care!

Doug

Doug,

Man oh man your build is looking flipping awesome!

The 190 is looking fantastic Doug. Great job on the paint and markings.

People tell me I have nothing but time cuz I'm retired. Well, I have no clue where time goes. Even if a day had 48 hours, I still need more time. I find myself busier now than when I was working 40-45 hours a week.

Thanks Andy... Yeah, I finally was able to fully retire this year, and I've got nothing but time now! lolol... Thanks again...

Doug

Wow Doug that's some very quick and very nice progress! Great job on the paint work!

T.J. , Hunter... Thank you, Very much appreciated!

Got the decals on today, and was able to start the weathering... Note, I put a "Bar" in the campaign stripe until the actual marking arrives, at which time, I'll remove bar and replace it with the wavy bar that shows in the picture. I had one in a set of decals but they both fell apart when I tried to apply them... Oh well...

Starting on the upper side panel lines.

And the excess cleaned off...

And thats about it for now. Take care all and thanks for looking! 

Doug

Great looking paint Doug!! 

Thanks Tony!, I agree...I like seeing others coming along, how they're doing it.

Evening all! I was able to get some more done today. 

The pattern is complete on the wings, and the mottle is done.

I generally try to make the mottle just a bit darker then I want at first. It will fade somewhat in future steps.

Getting the trim and accents painted on. The tape didn't co-operate down near the wing root and I missed a little bit, no big deal, I'll touch up in a bit.

same on this side.

OK, the red isn't paint, its a dry transfer rub on. 

And the Reich defence band for Jg3. Thats about all till morning... Thanks and have a good evening!

Doug

PJ, good points you haved added to the discussion.

The problem I had grasping Doug's specific build was I took it too literal the late war time frame and was looking at JG 3's roster as four squadrons in each of the four groups.  That would of put the 11th staffel in III gruppe, and that just did not jive.

The pilot of 'black 8' is Willi Maximowitz, and the b/w photo of his mount is captioned as being taken some time in June 1944 at Dreux Airfield.   From the image I couldn't really say if it sports standard paint, or something else... 

regards,

Jack

Interesting exchage here about the late war colors or lack of. Who knows how they ended up near the end. Take the Me 262 done in NMF with putty lines and some sections painted. New info keeps surfacing all the time.

Late war production quality control was not the same as in the early years. This along with the need to rush the aircraft into combat saw NMF undersides or parts of along with unpainted gear wells out in the field. I have the decals and info for a 1/32 FW190 F8 that had 75/76 uppers and NMF sides and undersides. It more than likely had unpainted wells too. This will be one heck of an unusual scheme for a butcher bird.

OK... Now that  Jack and others have helped me figure out a few questions I had... A bit more progress...

Time to start the weathering of the underside. Like I said earlier, I've been using artist oils lately, and while they take longer I feel they do a more convincing job. This is a mix of black and bark brown to do panel lines. 

The exhaust, oil, fuel, and gun powder residue look a tad heavy right now, but will smooth out in future steps.

While all that sets up for a day or so... I'll move on to something else.

and the start of the upper surfaces, Grau/violet and grau/grun. Thats about it for now. Thanks all!

Doug

Thanks Jack... I for one always appreciate your knowledge and input specially when trying to ID a subject. 

Doug

Doug, I think you are good to go.  As I said, not familiar with late war Luftwaffe, but yes as soon as I saw those colour plates you posted, it is indeed a IV. Gruppe aircraft,  indicated by the wavy bar symbol. 

The individual aircraft number eight in black puts it as the 2nd staffel of the group, and 11.(sturm)/JG 3 designation tells me this was at the time when each gruppe had only 3 squadrons apiece.  That dates it at some time before August 10 1944, at which point the Sturm gruppe was expaned to 4 staffel (13,14,15,16).

regards,

Jack

wow moving along .

Jack, In perticular, this is the aircraft that caught my eye...

Thanks again

Doug

I believe the one I looked at was II Jg3. In asbiz I had a little problem finding it, being almost an exclusive 109 usage from the Spanish civil war to the "K" version, but towards the end, there they were, a group of 190 A 8s used as defense against the bombers and another group used as night fighters. As to the Reich defense band it is a broad white band and it looked like a very thin red stripe at either end, that may have been a litho issue and it just looked (to me) like stripes.Probably just solid white.

For sure, given the war situation and the lack of of concise documention, there are options as to what it might have been.  All that is definitely known is what the colours should have been had the proper supplies been available.

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One thing I can't find are images of the 190 for III. gruppe of JG 3.  Maybe only the 4th gruppe had them?

http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg3.htm

Is this then a what if build, because the Reich defense markings you mentioned earlier (white and red) also don't match this chart:

regards,

Jack

Jack... I agree and saw that somewhere too, the only reason I had figured grey was due to the parts they were calling "blue grey or blue / white (76 I'm sure,) also I guess the Grey violet might fall in there somewhere, and often seeing late ware birds being described as having a faded 76 or grey accents. Oh well, I appreciate the response, and as always, lots of good info shared and figured out here. 

Doug

Hey Bish... Yeah thats the way I took it too... I had read in another book ( I have here, Just can't remember which one) almost the same thing, that near the end they were using whatever they could just to get them in the air, and that primer was often used as camo paint. Not meaning to start a firestorm (lol) but thats what I like about this forum... We will figure it out and its all good info! LOL...

Take care...

Doug

Doug, I think you understood the section you pointed out.  Like Bish stated, the author is interpreting some colours as to why they are light, so it's possible only primer in some or even all areas?

Thing is, I don't know of any Luftwaffe grey primers  other than the RLM 02, which early on also doubled as the lighter portion of the splinter scheme.

Is your aircraft project based on a historical photo?

regards,

Jack

Doug, i have just read that section. I think you have understod it correct, but of course he is giving it as one of a number of possable reasons for different shades appearing. Of course it is possable that all could be correct. One factory runs ourt of paint, so uses primer. Another puts on less coats of paint. The next leaves out the primer, and so on.

I think all could be right and all could be wrong.

Saved that page, going to have a full read through that.

I have not paid much attention to late war German aircraft camo, somthing i very much need to rectify. I am going to have to read through that and see what else i can find.

Thanks guys.

Jack, I was hoping you would comment, I for one consider you one of the go to members for info... Yes that is the one I was reading. now, go to the section titled... August 15 1944, sammecllitteilung Nr2, go down about 10 paragraphs and read the 11th, which starts with... There are two possabilities... several sentances down, it states several different reasons for the differences in RLM colors and one sentance states using primers inplace of paint , then gives a few reasons why. That was the reason I chose the primer, unless I misunderstood. Any way, thanks for the input. Read that area and see what you think. Thanks

Doug

Doug, is that primer question from here?

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/luftcamdb_3.htm

tbh, not my expertise, but possibly-- what shade of primer did they use?  I've read elsewhere too that at one point the Luftwaffe paints were so designed that they did not require primer and adhered directly to metal surface.  Only fabric control surfaces required primer, and this was red.

Another thread here states by summer of '44, much of the underwing surface was left bare metal.  Firstly, it wasn't important to hide the aircraft's undersides - except maybe the the landing doors would recieve some paint/mottle spray.  Secondly, it saved time and materials not to paint.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=3916

regards,

Jack