Ships of the American Flag GB 2019 -2021

Hoo Yah Deep Sea, thank you for keeping my build ship shape. Being an Army veteran does not give me the knowledge you possess as a Navy man. You are now my "go-to" guy for any Naval builds...... Thanks! If you don't mind telling me, when and where did you serve?

I looked everywhere on-line but have never seen this photo before, where does it come from? Sure wish I had this during the build. I also see that the hawes pipes are painted in a lighter shade of gray (not black as on my build).  I see more rework on the near horizon:

- repaint the hawes pipe openings

- remove the rust from the chain and flash plate

- paint chain black

- paint the flash plate deck blue, dark gray, or leave black (?)

I have plenty of chain for three chain stoppers and two eyes for each anchor chain. Forgive me though, but given the scale of this build, I will not even try to make the pelican hook assembly (smile). Instead, I will run each chain stop from a two eye to each anchor chain.

Thanks again for the wonderful photo too. This is a great example of sharing knowledge between modelers to ensure accuracy. Believe it or not, I enjoy making my models as authentic as possible. Your honest critique is valued and appreciated. With all the corrections and updates already done to the kit, I want this to be correct as well.

v/r,

Ben

For All, I did 20 years in the U.S. Navy. During that time, I worked with nearly all of the different operational components of the Pacific Fleet; surface, subs, aviation, specwar, EOD, and was also a National Park Service volunteer and dove on the ARIZONA and UTAH, as well as some other interesting places. I was an engineer for my first eight years and then went diver. I requal'ed as a Surface Warfare Specialist on four different ships / ship types, and was on a carrier, two amphibs, two tenders, and a salvage tug. I've been moored in 14,000 feet of water and did a single ship tow of a battleship (MISSOURI) from Bremerton all the way down to Long Beach. I was "tactical backseat" qualified in jets (TA4-J, A-6, F-14), and have been down to 285' on air and 300' on mixed gas diving.

So, yeah, all in all, I didn't do diddly while I was in, just sat around collecting a paycheck.

Now, Ben, if you are doing the ship in the 5N sea blue, just about everything should be that color. As for the MK49 mounts, they are rings, not platforms.

At the risk of being called mega-anal on the subject, I have yet to see a completely correct ARIZONA. Even the model at the USS Arizona Memorial isn't right; so don't sweat the small stuff.

Yeah Ben, YooHah knows his stuff. He and a couple others on the site are the premiere ship specialists on the forums. My knowledge of ships (Coast Guard) is more on the electronics side, radars, radios, masts etc. And yes, the Coast Guard is a real service despite what some other branches may say. The deck apes and the snips kept up with the actually running of the ship, I was just along for the ride and kept us in contact with the outside world and off the reef via radar and LORAN, which was the GPS before GPS.

Like YooHah said, don't sweat the small stuff. He is probably one of a very few members of an exclusive club who knows exactly what the Arizona looks like. 99.999999% of the rest of us don't have a clue and must refer to drawings, some of which YooHah had a hand in creating.

On this I do agree with wholeheartly. The Chief Boats will not let "his" ship look bad while docked. As soon a possible the deck apes are crawling all over her to needle gun or over the side in "Boatswain's chairs" (gawd what a noise) to paint, polish the bright work (brass and bronze fittings) and generally keep the Chief's ship, who lets the captain barrow on patrols, in tip top shape, or Ship Shape and in Bristol fashion as the British would say.

BTW, there are several terms used today that began as nautical terms.

The bitter end
Knots I.E. ships speed (calculated by counting the knots tied at intervals in a rope, that had one end secured to a sea anchor and was paid out while the ship was underway)
Son of a gun
Head (toilet)
Rake you from stem to stern
Rise and shine
On board
Go by the board
All hands on deck
Scuttlebutt
Give a wide berth
Batten down the hatches
Caught between the devil and the deep blue sea
In the doldrums
In deep water
High and dry
Sink or swim
Dead in the water
Rock the boat
Shot across the bow
loose cannon
Make waves
Hounky dory
On the right tack (modern: on the right track)
Turn the corner
Bottoms up
Show one's true colors
The cut of your Jib
Scraping the barrel
Keel haul
Close quarters
Learn the ropes
Broad in the beam
As the crow flies
Through thick and thin
Pipe down
Hand over fist
Stem the tide
Keel over
On an even keel
Three sheets to the wind
Under the weather
Above board
I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole (modern: 10 foot pole)
Calm before the storm
Going overboard
Overwhelm (capsizing)
Posh (port out, starboard in) now means rich or well to do.
Square meal
Binge
Taken aback
By and large
Another day, another dollar
Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey
Cut and run
Groggy
In the offing
Shake a leg

Then there's the obvious ones

Abandon ship
Like ships that pass in the night
Rats deserting a sinking ship
Trim one's sails
Landlubber
Walk the plank
smooth sailing
Weigh anchor

There's more but can't think of any right now. Admittedly not all were from memory and had to look some up.

We gray ship riders refer to the white ship riders as "puddle pirates", in reference to the shallower water mission. But don't be fooled by our humor, as we who know better have the absolute highest respect for the United States Coast Guard. When I watched a Coastie small boy going out crossing the Columbia Bar in sea state five to save someone's butt, all I could think was "Those guys (and gals) have got to have big brass ones, cuz that's crazy!"

Semper Paratus my friend

Now, back to the subject du jour, ARIZONA. Check out the below posted information.

As for the aft MK-49 mount, it was to be mounted on a pedestal, the top of which is just about even with the top edge of the 1.1" gun tub. It was a 2' diameter pedestal with a 6' diameter platform on top. The picture is of the starboard side installation.

Thanks HooYah Deep Sea, for me learning both new information and new techniques is a big part of what makes modeling fun for me. If I have real live experts who can provide input to make my model better I'm perfectly OK with that. Based on what you are showing in the photo, I think I got the Mk 49 pedestal just about right, or are you saying they should be rings instead?

In response to your earlier reply, here is a much more accurate representation of the forward anchor assemblies (based on your information and photo).

OLD VERSION:




CORRECTED VERSION:




I have also attached the superstructure to the deck. This view shows one layer of tinted resin added to the display. I plan on doing some hand painting on this layer and at least three more pours. 



Currently I am working on the two rear legs of the foremast tripod and the stairs from the emergency platform to the superstructure wood deck. I also have several ammo bins to add for the 5" AA guns. After that will be the exhaust funnel, more stairs and ladders, then the small boats, storage boxes, main mast, cranes, main guns, aircraft, little people, hand rails, rafts, paravanes, antenna array, rigging, etc., etc. It seems like the fun just never ends! 

Thanks once again for following along and for any and all remarks. 

Ben

Ben, nice work on the chain correction, that looks proper and the deck apes would be proud.

As for the forward MK-49 mounts; click on my picture above and you can see that the mount, which I've colored yellow, is actually a circular ring structure with some cross bracing where the support legs attached. The director unit would have sat on top of that ring, and in this installation, I don't believe that any splinter protective tub was going to be used. So, I would have looked a lot like the PENNSYLVANIA installation except that the mount ring is the same diameter as the director unit. I'm still searching for a better view of the verticle support legs, but the horizontal brace structure was two parallel beams. I don't know if a ladder had been installed at the time of the attack, but it would have been located between the two brace beams. I hope this all helps.

I have officially started working on the North Carolina. Spent a good amount of time on her the last couple days. Man, the 2 piece hull on this thing is a nightmare to get everything lined up! A lot of sanding and cussing. Finally got the upper and lower sections of the hull attached to my satisfaction. 

I also finally got my airbrush set up and started using it on the NC. Pics below will show some of the sanding I have done and some of the painting I have done with the airbrush. 

The lower part of the hull was sanded and corrected as much as I can. Then primed and painted. Spent several hours getting the upper part of the hull lined up and glued into place. I wrapped up today with painting the water line. 

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Ben, in reference to your question about the ladderway, platform, and door on the port side of the conning tower casing, halfway between the boat deck and the bridge; see the drawing, the platform is lined in red, and you can see where the two ladders are and the door.

Well crap and crap.... because of a lack of response I already added the stair assembly given by Eduard. On top of that I also attached the superstructure to the deck. That would make it near impossible to remove my stairs and replace it with stairs and door like in the diagram (sad). 

The same can be said for the mini platform instead of the ring for the gun director. I saw the "platform" on the 1/200 kit and replicated that instead of a ring. If you can find more detailed photos of the ring perhaps I will try to remove the platform and replace it. My concern is destroying the handrail beneath it though...... (sad again).

Ben 

Well my friend, you do what you can do .  .  .   and then next time .  .  .!!!

I had not been following this thread earlier, so I apologize for not 'being there' for you.

ARIZONA has been a special thing to me since I was knee high to a grasshopper. And that long term study is how I got the opportunity to dive on her; a serious dream come true.

You are probably familiar with the line; "a picture is worth a thousand words". Well, that has been my 'key' to much of the info I have on ARIZONA. It is the ability to look at a picture and connect it to other pictures and derive the info from that. It is an understanding of layering and depth, and being able to mentally place yourself in that spot that makes it work. Oh, and having a clue on what you're looking at helps.

Keep me in the loop on your build and I will try to get the info to you in a timely manner.

Anything you do at this point is a great testament to the ship. Focus on detail, but also realize that it's like prayer; just considering the subject and caring about it is powerful.

In other words, give yourself credit for even looking into the detail.

Bill

Well put, Bill, very well put.

Thank You

Ben, I'm sorry I or someone didn't respond earler to a question regarding items placement. Frankly, I know little to none about the actual Arizona and somewhat more about the current on the market kits conditions. I know far more about general Navy practices, common ship layouts and how to duplicate them to a scale kit. I am continiously learning as everyone is. I learn from HooYah, GM, CaptMac and others as to the specifics of certian subjects and members such as Stickpusher for historical actions, especially in the Pacific.

I understand how you feel. I get so involved in accuracy that I, for instance, bought individual hand rails for ladders attached to the side of the Akagi. Then, looking through my magnafying glass, I noticed that a few eyebrows on some of the portholes have been removed during the process of removing other moldings such as handholds and said ladder rails for relpacement. Now I need to purchase IJN portholes to restore the eyebrows.......too much? My only saving grace is there very little documentation and photos left to haunt me regarding the placement of some gizimo or railing which gives me some artistic license. A ship like the Missouri or North Carolina have abundant refrence materials, all you have to do is decide what time frame. The Arizona is a tad more difficult because of the lack of targeted pictures and of course, most of it is missing now.

BTW nice start on the NC Matt.

I guess this is my long winded way of saying I'm sorry I couldn't help with your delema and am happy that HooYah is there for help. You will probably still have the most accurate Arizona replica built to date.

Semper Paratus HooYah

Hoo Yah, Why does my book reference a platform and the 1/200 kits have a platform instead of the ring? Is it possible that there was a platform on top of the ring prior to the explosion (which then blew it off)? Have you found any other pictures with more detail? I'm not calling you out on this, rather asking for more detailed photos please....

Also regardung the "aft" Mk 19 Dir. platforms, do you have any other photo of thier locations? I have no idea they were even on the ship in January 41 and cannot find any photos of them at all. 

Your help here would be much appreciated (thanks).

Ben

The 'ring' was still a platform, just not a solid plate type. This was done for maintenance purposes. It's like the engineroom soft patches back aft; most kits show them exposed as steel plates. They were actually covered with teak like the surrounding deck.

As for the aft MK-49 mounts, they were right by the 1.1" gun tub. As I mentioned previously, they were a 6' diameter platform (solid this time) set on a 2' diameter pedestal. The top of the platform was slightly below the top edge of the gun tub.

And again, a modern view of the director foundation next to the gun tub. This is the starboard side configuration. The large open pipe on the right in this view is the starboard crane kingpost stub.

Thanks you very much for the clairification and wonderful images. Everything is making better sense now. Were the aft mounts added at the same time as the forward ones, or were they added in the July or even Oct - Nov updates? I am trying to build her in the early 41 scheme. 

As for the forward rings, I am coming up with some ideas to try out. I hope you can find good images of the bracing they used for the rings as that would be helpful too. I also am working on ideas or the platform, door, and stairs adjacent to the Conning Tower. Should you confirm that the aft platforms were added in Jan-Feb 41, I think they will be an easy addition.

Thanks again for keeping me pointed in the right direction regarding this build, it is appreciated....

Ben

Time for another update....today I was able to nearly finish the superstructure. Last update I had the main part of the structure attached to the deck. While I still have a couple corrections to perform (see previous message), I was able to move forward on other items. 

- My first task was to create the two rear legs of the foremast with hollow aluminum rod. I chose this over brass because it is much easier to file to a fitted angle. My goal is to have the fore top balance level on the three legs. I was thinking that this will definitely tell me if I got all those parts of the superstructure tower in the right place. If I didn't, these two legs would not fit. In this instance, I was lucky as everything fit well. I needed to have them completed, prior to anything else. 

-Next I began folding the PE to add the rear stairs that go from the Flag Bridge Platform to the Superstructure Deck. I found them to be a very tight fit with the rear legs of the tripod mast. From what I can tell, that is exactly how they should be.

- Then I began to close up all the hand rails and armor plate that tie the two rear legs of the foremast into the 6 individual platforms. After some minor fit issues all went well.

- The uptake funnel was added next. I then had to immediately remove it to adjust the handrails on the funnel so it would allow the stairs to be parallel between the funnel and the Emergency Cabin Platform. The second attempt proved successful.

- One of the harder items to add in this segment was the actual stairs between the funnel and platform. Even with good tweezers and stiff PE, it was still difficult because of the very, very tight tolerances. After several attempts with colorful words I managed to get them into position. 

- it was now time to add the individual PE ammo storage lockers for the 5 /25 AA guns. This shouldd be easy, but could also be easy to not position them square with adjacent items. So far I have 7 added and 2 more to fold, paint and add for the remaining aft guns.

- One of the last steps today was to add the various PE storage boxes on the superstructure deck. Careful study of photos and test fitting around the boats ensured I have all 7 of them added.

- The very last thing I did was to add more little people in desired areas of the build. 

I still have to do a bunch of touch-up painting, but overall here it is after todays work:









Thank you once again for following. Let me know what you think so far....

Ben

Ben, the four Mk-49 foundations, the Aft 1.1" gun tubs, and the bird bath atop the mainmast all went in during the January, 41 upkeep. I believe that the radar platform and pedestal on top of the foremastwas installed during the June 41 upkeep period. As of right now, I'm not sure when the RDF shack was built. I'll have to do some checking.

Finished the hull camo pattern on the NC. I went with the measure 32 camo pattern she was in during 1944, as it goes with the kit. Next I will be attaching all PE to the deckings, then priming and paint them. Once dry they will be attached to the hull. 

Here are some pics of the hull with the camo completed. I am really enjoying using and learning how to paint with my new airbrush. The finish is so much smoother and better!

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

BBorBust looks like you got the airbrush down pat already. Camo looks sharp!

Ben you continue to set the bar with that Arizona. I like how the wood deck is laid out vs the furniture. the time you took on it was worthwhile. Very sharp!

TheMongoose

BBorBust looks like you got the airbrush down pat already. Camo looks sharp!

 

Thanks! A lot of tamiya tape and patience. Overall very happy with it. Had a bit of problems with airbrushing the AK paints at first. The lower red part of the hull was sprayed with tamiya paints. In which I mixed to about a 50/50 ratio with their brand thinner. 

The AK stuff I did the same, using their brand thinner with about a 50/50 mix. It was say too thin I think and was giving me a fit while airbrushing. It seems the AK paints come pretty thinned out already. The last color of the camo I did I used the AK paint with only a few drops of thinner, equaling to about a 80/20 mix. It sprayed a lot better, but honestly think I could go to about a 90/10 with their paints. Trial and error I guess. Every paint is different, I am learning that!

Wow BBorBust, that is looking really good already, nice camo work!

Thanks Mongoose, I have another update:

Now with HooYah DeepSea's expertise, He has been giving me some documented evidence and pointers of things not on the model, not molded correctly, or something I did that is not accurate to the actual ship. For instance, the forward Mk 49 gun dir. platforms were added in January 41, but were not part of the kit or PE suppliers. I added them based on how I interpreted my books drawings and how they looked on the larger 1/250 scale kit, as a solid platform (they are shown below as the small round disks on the front of the emergency platform suspended above the hand rail).



Evidence shows the forward mounts were actually just rings and not solid plates (from HooYah):



Here I thought I was adding detail above that of the model only to find that what I added was not accurate. Now came the task of carefully removing the solid disks and PE bracing without destroying the existing paint, handrail beneath it, or breaking other detail items. Next was the creation of the ring mount. How could I make a thin mount to scale (?), I decided to use brass tubing. After cutting it I had to thin it down by sanding it near wafer thin. Next was finding some PE from spare that would closely replicate the bracing used from the structure going out to the hand rail and under the ring mount. After some work I was able to add the replacement mounts, thereby keeping the build historically accurate. If I try to add the reinfored ribs on the ring, it will be with paint or marker:



Early on in my build I asked the forum a question regarding the platform, door, and stairway configuration on the left rear of the Conning Tower. Specifically, the kit did not have anything there at all; the Eduard PE provided a set of stairs that was different than the 1/250 kit and it did not have a door; and the 1/250 kit had a platform, door and stairs. So, which one is correct? I waited for some time and did not receive a response from anyone so I added the Eduard PE set. Some time later, after meeting HooYah, he was able to provide clarity. The area of concern is referenced in red outline below. Here I thought I was going one step better than the kit just to find out that the PE from Eduard is not accurate (sounds familiar right?). 



Now came the task of carefully removing the dual stairway from the side of the structure and up underneath the Flag Bridge. After some effort I was able to remove them without damaging anything else on the ship. To make the platform I used plastic sheet. For the stairs, door, and handrail I used spares from my stash. To my calibrated eye, the space beneath the 1/350 models Flag bridge is squished or smaller in height or width when compared to the drawings. I had to modify the stairs length and platform width to make them work. And here is the semi-accurate door, platform, and stairs:



While discussing the forward Mk 49 gun dir. rings, HooYah also indicated that there are suppose to be to mounts near the aft elevated gun tubs. 





These are not on any of the models or after market PE suppliers. They are represented on the kit as two small bumps for the base on the rear deck. Based on his photos and drawing I made them from brass and sheet plastic. I cut and leveled the brass tubing and punched two disks form the plastic sheet based on the dimensions indicated. Here they are added to the model.



This was enough modeling bliss for one day, are we having fun yet?... I know I am. Until next time, thanks for looking and as always please feel free to provide some feedback.....

Ben

Making some excellent progress Ben, looks outstanding. 

BB sharp camo. Your really getting that airbrush down. 

Can anyone tell me about the "incinerator"? I see on the drawing provided by HooYah that there is one on the port side of the exhaust funnel, on the superstructure deck. Was it there in January-June of 1941? The 1/350 kit does not have that piece at all. 

UPDATE: Never mind, I finally found a photo dated 29 March 1931 and it clearly shows the incinerator, I will have to scratch build one.....

I am curious as to why it was not part of the kit(?)....

Ben

Ben

You got me Ben. You passed my knowledge of the Arizona a long time ago

I'm just in the peanut gallery supplying the applause 

Ben, great job. that puppy is coming along nicely. With the MK-49 mounts you have, your build is already a rarity. There are extremely few builds with those correct. As for the incinerator, have fun, there are very few pictures of that. Fortunately, it is one of the detail things that the 1/200 scale model got right.

and this shot is from the Great Canadian Model Builders Net

Thanks for the images Hoo Yah Deep Sea, its appreciated.

In the last update I remarked on having to scratch build the incinerator for the USS Arizona. It was clearly shown both in the ships drawings and in a photo. Why it was not part of the model is unknown (?). To create one for my build I used square extruded plastic, sheet plastic, and hollow aluminum rod. There are not many photos and really none of great detail of that part of the ship. I made mine based on the drawing, a 1930's grainy photo, and images of the one on the 1/250 kit. 

The box portion was fairly easy, I cut the square plastic rod to length, wrapped the end with 0.10 plastic sheet, trued the end, capped it with the 0.10 sheet on both ends, and cut a 1mm strip from the 0.10 sheet to use as a banding seam on the incinerator body. The angled/tapered portion near the exhaust funnel is 0.35 laminated plastic sheet which is then cut and filed to the angles to replicate the tie-in. The aluminum tube was bent to shape for the trunk coming from one of the exhaust vent pipes to the incinerator itself.

Drawing:


Incinerator box, phase 1:


Incinerator installed:


Incinerator completed with most of the superstructure deck finished. Apparantly one of the men from within the aft port elivated gun tub decided to jump ship, he is either AWOL or missing in action. The marks from his shoes can be seen in the gun tub (smile).  


I will create a separate post describing all of the deck updates shortly. 

Comments always welcome....

Ben