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Formula One Group Build 2022 - CLOSED

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  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Thursday, July 14, 2022 5:22 PM

Ben and Greg,

I'm not sure if I'm the first guy to make springs in that manner, but I am glad they turned out OK.  And like cooties in kindergarten, I'm happy to share!  Stick out tongue  Hopefully others will find the technique useful.  (Remember all those silly tips on what to use empty 35mm film cannisters for?)

I'll confess that I'm working on the Tyrrell P34 again, but I'll get on the Brabham right after.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Thursday, July 14, 2022 4:14 PM

Real G: The  method for your coil over shocks is sweet. That is one of the many reasons I read and contribute to this forum, all the good tips and advise. Ive also used fine solder to make those springs (depending on the model scale). Sure can't argue with your result though as they look amazing!

jeaton01: Following your Honda build really brought back some good memories when I built mine. Your results is spot on and looks great! That engine is almost too nice to cover up (plumbed or not). 

Greg: I'm the same way regarding the little details that will eventually be covered up. But, like you I enjoy detailing them anyway (and I know the details are there). Also like how the fire bottles came out, they look great!

GMorrison: How is that Ferrari 312 coming along?

I'm finally feeling good and finished my 1/350 IJN Yamato, so I want to say I'm "ALL IN" on the F1 build now. First post about the Auto Union coming soon. 

Ben / DRUMS01

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Sunday, July 10, 2022 10:52 AM

Real G
Yeah you really have to fight the rods into place while winding them! I prepared cut pieces of tape stuck to the edge of my table so I could just swipe them when needed.

About as I figured, G. I tip my hat to your persistence.

Real G
Oh and the tape - don't use hardware store masking tape to hold down the springs. They leave adhesive residue after their boiling water bath and it is quite a pain to remove. Instead, I have found Tamiya tape works best, as it has enough holding power to keep the rods in place, yet peel off cleanly afterwards.

That's a great and timeless tip. I wouldn't have thought about effect of the boiling water bath. That said, I learned my lesson with hardware store masking tape some yrs ago, and use Tamiya exclusively. I figure the cost is worth it.

Real G
The metallic paints I have been using are all Alclad. I have heard Tamiya's aircraft aluminum in the spray can has a finer grain compared to other rattle can silvers. The nice thing about the tamiya sprays is that even the metallics are durable and can take handling as well as some weathering washes.

3 comments that hit home with me in your one post. Oddly, I started out with Tamiya Silver acryl from the bottle, airbrushed on, on the main 'tub' of my monocoque chassis. Very impressed with the durability, but it looked like painted plastic so I stripped it and tried various things. I stripped that poor part so many times, but ended up going full circle back to Alclad polished alum over a nice gloss black coat.

I'll have to try the Tamiya rattle can aircraft alum, thank you for the tip.

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Saturday, July 9, 2022 12:53 PM

Greg,

Yeah you really have to fight the rods into place while winding them!  I prepared cut pieces of tape stuck to the edge of my table so I could just swipe them when needed.

Oh and the tape - don't use hardware store masking tape to hold down the springs.  They leave adhesive residue after their boiling water bath and it is quite a pain to remove.  Instead, I have found Tamiya tape works best, as it has enough holding power to keep the rods in place, yet peel off cleanly afterwards.

The metallic paints I have been using are all Alclad.  I have heard Tamiya's aircraft aluminum in the spray can has a finer grain compared to other rattle can silvers.  The nice thing about the tamiya sprays is that even the metallics are durable and can take handling as well as some weathering washes.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, July 8, 2022 6:22 AM

Thank you for the additional info.

Before you responded, I had been musing about winding those styrene rods and tryng to visualize how to even get the coil started, hang onto them, etc. It's funny to me that you mentioned really needing a third hand. Smile

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Thursday, July 7, 2022 5:10 PM

Greg,

Yes, the 0.020" rod can be easily wound around a drill bit without snapping.  They fight a bit when you try to tighten them so no gaps are visble between the coils, and you really need a third hand when taping everything together.

When the finished coils are unwound, they actually retain their pitch.  It's almost like magic the way they just thread apart.  This seems like a lot of work, but it does make it easier if the spring and shocks are to be painted different colors.

A friend who builds primarily car models asked if 0.025" or 0.030" rod would also work, but I haven't tried yet.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, July 7, 2022 7:37 AM

Holy Wow, G.... those springs/shocks look awesome!!

So you were able to wind the .020" round Styrene tubing around the drill bit at room temperature? (Before taping/boiling)?

Brilliant to wrap them in parallel to get the spacing, even though you ended up 'unwinding' them a bit more anyway.

Also, what paint/process did you use on the aluminium chassis interior? It looks very clean and thin. I used Tamiya X-11 on the bottom of my 'tub', and I'm not very happy with it, but having little experience with spraying Tamiya, I probably layed it one way to thick.

Thanks for sharing this!! Yes

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Wednesday, July 6, 2022 2:18 PM

Greg,

By coincidence I was diddling around with some F1 shocks too (no, not the Brabham's  Embarrassed), and really liked your results!

I wanted to avoid the tedious cleanup of the mold lines on my kit shocks, so naturally I had to complicate things.  I cut away the springs and cleaned up the ends of the shocks, then made new springs using 0.020" styrene rods.

[

This was trial #1 - the pitch spacing was not consistent.

There was some trial and error, but what eventually worked was to take two 0.020" rods and wrap them in parallel onto a drill of the appropriate diameter.  Using tape to hold the coiled rods nice and tight to the drill, the whole thing was plunged into boiling water.  After cooling it off under running tap water, the tape was carefully removed and the now formed rods were slid off the drill.

The smaller front shocks needed punched discs at the lower ends, since the brackets had insufficient flare.

And here is the wierd part.  By gently turning the two coils in opposite directions, they could be "unthreaded" apart.  The result were two sets of springs with a nice consistent pitch.  Being plastic, the ends could be easily ground and tapered like the real thing, and they take paint well.  Adjusting the length is also easy, as they only have light spring force.

OK confession time - I only used a single diameter rod for the struts.  I know they should be 2-part telescoping tubes, but I got LAZY.  I'll try to trick the eye by painting the struts in two contrasting metallic colors and leave it at that.  If it looks bogus after completion, I'll do the struts properly next time.  Pinkie promise.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    January 2020
  • From: Maryland
Posted by wpwar11 on Monday, July 4, 2022 7:29 PM

Thanks for the detailed response Greg.  I hope you are enjoying the holiday.

Cheers,

Paul

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Monday, July 4, 2022 6:55 PM

wpwar11

I always struggle with shocks on open wheel cars.  Yours look incredible.  Are the shocks also Molotow pen or a steady hand with a paint brush?  

 

Thanks very much, Paul.

Having never painted shocks before, the shocks were a long experiment! I'll spare you all the details and fails and try to be concise (hard for me)

  • I started out spraying the shocks with Tamiya Gold leaf acrylic (X-12), then applied several black enamel wash applications to get the recesses as black as I wanted them.
  • I wasn't happy with the results after wiping away the excess at the spring outsides, and the gold wasn't gold enough. So I brush painted the circumference with Vallejo Metal Color Gold, using a flat brush. (The new Vallejo Metal color, not the original Model Air metal colors....and the 'new formula' of the VMC).
  • Hand painted the top ends with Molotow (didn't do anything to the bottom end, don't think they will be visible
  • Then I messed up the whole thing by applying a clear sealer. Something reacted with either the Vallejo water based or testors enamel, creating the stringy mess you see in one of the detail pics.

But I thought they still look decent, and I'm really happy you do too. If they were to be visible, I'd probably have stripped and redone, but.....

I have a plan for the rear shocks, which I think will be more visible. I picked up a square jar of good old Testors square bottle gold at Hobby Lobby the other day and will be a part of the new plan. Smile

Thanks again for asking!!

 

  • Member since
    January 2020
  • From: Maryland
Posted by wpwar11 on Monday, July 4, 2022 6:28 PM

I always struggle with shocks on open wheel cars.  Yours look incredible.  Are the shocks also Molotow pen or a steady hand with a paint brush?  

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Monday, July 4, 2022 6:24 PM

Thank you, John.

I hope things aren't too hectic for you.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Monday, July 4, 2022 5:42 PM

Wow!  Great work Greg.  Looks sharp. 

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Monday, July 4, 2022 5:25 PM

A couple more pics...

Won't admit how much time I spent getting the straps looking half-decent on these two canisters. The chrome is Molotow and looks really cool in person.

Then there's the foot pedals which Tamiya did a fine job on, for this scale.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Monday, July 4, 2022 5:04 PM

Progress report on my Lotus 79...

Getting closer to wrapping up at least the front end of the monocoque chassis.I know I spent too much time on details that will not be visible once the chassis is buttoned up, especially the shocks. But I'm having fun getting back into the swing after about 18 mos off.

Also enjoying learning a little about how formula cars are put together, thanks to the Tamiya detail.

 

  • Member since
    January 2020
  • From: Maryland
Posted by wpwar11 on Sunday, July 3, 2022 11:24 AM

Wow!  The British GP was freaking amazing.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Thursday, June 30, 2022 3:08 PM

Yes, the early years of F1 (and other forms of motorsports) were very dangerous, to say the least-so many great drivers lost at the height of their career....and spectators killed too.

Grosjean's crash at Bahrain was very scary to watch-very fortunate to have survived (and been able to continue driving).

Last summer I read Sir Jackie Stewart's autobiography "Winning is Not Enough"-although parts of the book are his personal history of how he made it to F1, his family & passions outside of racing, he does a very good job of telling the story of the poor safety standards in the 60's & 70's and the efforts  to make the sport safer. Worth a read IMHO....and just ordered the Ebbro Tyrrell 002 from Kitlinx (on sale last week)...hopefully I can add it to this GB (if I ever cleanup my 'works in progress'..)

Bob

 

  • Member since
    January 2020
  • From: Maryland
Posted by wpwar11 on Wednesday, June 29, 2022 6:24 PM

Watch footage of Grosjean at Bahrain two years ago.  Every viewer thought for certain Grosjean wasnt going to make it.  He was stuck in the car trapped under a barrier while on fire for several seconds.  Somehow he escaped with just burns to his hands.  Amazing how much more safe things are today.  Jules Bianchi did lose his life after head injuries he suffered at the Japanese GP 2014.  

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Wednesday, June 29, 2022 2:10 PM

The 1950's were wild and wooly.  I noticed how the drivers progressively sat further and further into their cars as time went on.  Now you just barely see the top of their helmets.  1950s cars had the drivers with their upper bodies exposed.  Thank goodness for crash cell technology and Nomex.

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, June 29, 2022 10:11 AM

Holy Cow!!!!

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Wednesday, June 29, 2022 10:01 AM

This chart shows how dangerous it used to be.  They have made great progress in saftey and the crashes I've see drivers walk away from have been crazy.

 

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, June 29, 2022 7:43 AM

keavdog

Great racing footage.  I love the cars of that era, though they were incredibly dangerous.

 

I only know them from model building, but the 60's era cars are the ones I like best. Probably, as I have mentioned before, because I built Tamiya's 1/12 Lotus 49 as a kid.

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, June 29, 2022 7:39 AM

DRUMS01
Along with the race footage, another vehicle that makes a presence is the 1966 Mustang Shelby GT350 driven by James Garner.

Oh, cool. I'll watch for that when I check out the recording.

DRUMS01
For me, getting past the corney romance off track and some over acting of the period was the hardest part

Funny you say that. Though some of the racing sequences got my attention, while I was fiddling around my wandering mind wondered more than once if the movie would hold my attention to sit down and watch.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Tuesday, June 28, 2022 11:19 PM

Great racing footage.  I love the cars of that era, though they were incredibly dangerous.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Tuesday, June 28, 2022 10:33 PM

Along with the race footage, another vehicle that makes a presence is the 1966 Mustang Shelby GT350 driven by James Garner. For me, getting past the corney romance off track and some over acting of the period was the hardest part. The racing sequences were clearly wonderful and classic regardless if they were the actual cars or Formula 2 cars of the period....

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Tuesday, June 28, 2022 8:04 AM

The movie 'Grand Prix' is airing this morning (Monday) on Movies! at 9:25 EDT.

I had it on during another airing the other day while I worked on my Lotus, which was fun. Looked it up, and reportedly, actual Formula I cars of the day were used for filming.

I'm recording the one this AM so I can watch it in earnest one day.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, June 17, 2022 7:56 AM

keavdog

Keep at it Greg!

I'll be here on the forum so no worries there.  But I just packed up all my stuff and said goodbye to all my paints, tools, kits etc.  I will have my computer and will continue to be engaged with this group build which is near and dear to my heart but I appreciate the group stepping up to get more pics and builds and keep moving the group build forward.

 

Thanks, and good to know you'll be able to stay in touch, John. I wasn't quite sure.

Something for you to look forward to; I don't remember much about packing up my stuff on the last move, but in my case it was a couple years+ until I unpacked it, and it was like Christmas. So fun.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Friday, June 17, 2022 7:52 AM

jeaton01

Greg, on my machine they appear bigger but on a postimage page.  It has only the one image and does not link to any others.

 

Thank you, John....that's just what I was hoping to hear.

Much appreciated! Toast

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Friday, June 17, 2022 1:08 AM

Keep at it Greg!

I'll be here on the forum so no worries there.  But I just packed up all my stuff and said goodbye to all my paints, tools, kits etc.  I will have my computer and will continue to be engaged with this group build which is near and dear to my heart but I appreciate the group stepping up to get more pics and builds and keep moving the group build forward.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Thursday, June 16, 2022 9:52 PM

Greg, on my machine they appear bigger but on a postimage page.  It has only the one image and does not link to any others.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

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