Moto GP group build '05

Saw the race today, still no "Marlboro" logo on the Ducs.  Phillip Morris quit paying the bills?  I won't spoil the race for those who haven't seen it, but I really didn't find it that exciting after the "incident".  On the Hayden RC, I noticed today that the open pipes don't work with the "old" fairings.  WONDERFUL. This bike has been bad luck from the start.  I might just have to display it with the bottom fairing off, I suppose.  Hope you all are having better luck.

Hello everyone, sorry I'm using the Reply button to post a new thread...but I couldn't find the New Topic button.

I'm new to this forum and glad I found it...I'm trying to get back into modeling after many years of not doing it.

I am a motorcycle fanatic, Moto GP is my drug and I decided to build my collection of Moto GP racers but I want to do it right.

I've been reading your postings and I see there are many tricks to be used when building these models. I have 3 or 4 specific questions:

1- CF decals or sheets - who makes them? did I read they come in 1:12 and 1:24 scale? applying techniques?

2- What's Micro Sol and when and how do you use it?....Sorry, I keep reading about it but I'm otdated...

3- Any other aftermarket accesory trick used to make models better?

4- I read in the Tamiya website that the new cans they make can come close to what airbrushes do...so, airbrush or can? (I think I know the answer but I'd like to hear it from the pros)

5- What are the glues and basic tools you guys use, for bikes specifically?

Thanks for your time and for being out there...seems like a great forum to be part of!

racer155 wrote:

Hello everyone, sorry I'm using the Reply button to post a new thread...but I couldn't find the New Topic button. I'm new to this forum and glad I found it...I'm trying to get back into modeling after many years of not doing it. I am a motorcycle fanatic, Moto GP is my drug and I decided to build my collection of Moto GP racers but I want to do it right. Mine too.  Every other series is almost dull in comparison. I've been reading your postings and I see there are many tricks to be used when building these models. I have 3 or 4 specific questions: 1- CF decals or sheets - who makes them? did I read they come in 1:12 and 1:24 scale? applying techniques? I use Scale Motorsports CF decal sheets.  I have found that they apply well and react very well to Micro Sol.  There are a ton of brands out there, but I buy mine from here http://www.detailanddesigninscale.com/id27.html 2- What's Micro Sol and when and how do you use it?....Sorry, I keep reading about it but I'm otdated... Micro Sol is a decal softner that allows the decal to conform around egdes and and flaten itself to the part it is applied to.  When used under a clear coat it will give the look of being painted on as apposed to a decal. 3- Any other aftermarket accesory trick used to make models better? Transparent tubing for brake resivour lines.  Thinner tubing to simulate all the electronics lines.  PE parts are plentiful if you know how to use them (I am unfortunatley an idiot in this department).  After market fork kits for the Ducati and Yamaha M1.  Alclad II paints for frames and exhausts.  The list is almost endless 4- I read in the Tamiya website that the new cans they make can come close to what airbrushes do...so, airbrush or can? (I think I know the answer but I'd like to hear it from the pros) I have only used spray cans for my body work and have gotten pretty decent results.  The best explanation against using the cans was something along the lines of using a fire hydrant hose to spray your parts.  These parts were painted using TS-51 spray can 5- What are the glues and basic tools you guys use, for bikes specifically? I prefer using Tamiya's Extra Thin cement as well as a super glue gel.  Thanks for your time and for being out there...seems like a great forum to be part of! These guys have a ton more experience than I do and they are more than happy to help.  Feel free to ask and I assure you someone will chime in.  I hope this helps! Erik

Thanks Erik,

 

I've been doing all kinds of research since I posted my first few questions....about 3 or 4 hours ago...(i'm off today). Thanks for replying and yes, between your posts and all the other ones I've already learned a lot of the new tricks and visited lots of websites...I'm amazed by the quality of some models out there!

I have 3 Tamiya models ready to go, 2004 Yamaha M1, 2003 RC211V and a 2005 Ducati Desmo. After seeing the pix I've seen today, I'm afraid to start with this task....

Anyway, thanks for your time and count me in as a member!

 

See you all,

 

Marcelo

Racer155,

Along with what wolfpac wrote, for bikes like Rossi's or Melandri's '04 M1s, there are aftermarket decals that have the tobacco sponsor's logo.  Others probably don't mind, but one of my pet peeves about modeling is if you want tobacco advertizing on your model, you have to pay aftermarket prices.  Some people think it looks cool, but I'm not crazy about the non-tobacco scheme.  Just so obvious something's missing.  Even on the real ones. Also, Scale Motorsport and probably some other companies sell template sets for the carbon fiber decals.  I haven't tried them yet, but they look really promising. Instead of painting the interior parts flat or semi-gloss black, I think what happens is you use the template to cut out the shapes from the c/f sheet and then apply to the inside of the fairing, air box, etc.  The only thing holding me back from trying these right now is funding.  The Mrs. doesn't see much sense in all my efforts going into something that just "sits there", and attempts to limit expenditures accordingly.  Take a look at Hobby Link Japan's website.  They have a lot of aftermarket stuff, and get the latest kits pretty quickly.  You can even pre-order from them like I did with the C. Edwards Laguna Seca M1, supposedly out this month.  They also have decals for certain "test" bikes and others that weren't made into kits.  I've also heard that there's a Kawi ZZ-RR resin kit out there, but it's quite rare and expensive.  If you're ready to drop some $$$$$, the aftermarket is there for these bikes to the point that when you're done, it will look like all you need is some race gas and a 1/12th scale friend, and you'll be ready to race.

welcome ,I'm the same ,though any bike road race is for me moto gp is tops then next come the isle of mann TT those guys are nuts.
Go to Max Moto and you will find his how to on his bike's that he has built
www.motomodeling.com
Wolfpac selling yourself short there arn't you your builds are some of the best i'v seen
Shayne

Thanks for your welcome msg, I agree with you....Moto GP is #1 but Isle of Mann TT is simply nuts!

I like anything on 2 wheels, that's my thing...MX, Road Racing, Super Moto, Choppers, bicycles (freestyle BMX, dirt, etc...)

I also checked the link you posted...pretty cool...all the links I've visited today were amazing!

 

Erik, back to your reply....what' PE? and how do I look up the hoses...I like what I've seen here, the green ones for brake lines on the M1...

 

Yamafreak72,

 

I also agree with you on the tobacco sponsor....though I personaly hate tobacco, it is what it is, you know?

I'll look into it, I'd like to have those decals instead of the Gooo!!!! ones....

Scale Motorsports is sick!...

I think I'm going to start buying models as often as I can...just to have them...so far I only have 3 so I'm way behind on the collector's schedule....My goal is to build a collection like the one that guy from Kaz Models, I like the whole "team" thing and by season....Yamaha M1 #46 and #5....in blue, Laguna colors, Valencia colors and testing colors....for example....I'm a freak like that...sorry.

Rossi is my favorite so, anything he's ridden I'd like to have, the NSR, the RC211Vs (all variations)

I realize it'll take me  a long time to achieve this, that's why I want to buy them as often as I can...so I can motivate myself even more!

Where did you see that ZZ-RR?...I saw it at Laguna last year and it blew me away!!! plus I ride a 2005 ZX10R on the street....I'm interested in it....

Well, I must admit you guys got me hooked...never thought there was a forum like this....

 

See you soon,

 

Marcelo #155

I forgot to ask you, what's the recomended CF size and type for the 04 M1?

I'd like to order that so I can start building it...

Thanks again,

 

Marcelo

I would go for 1/24 scale c/f as I think 1/12 scale is to large for some bike's but that is just me ,Other guy's here may use the 1/12 scale not sure .
Shayne

Racer,
PE stands for photo etch.  Parts such as brake rotors, chains, exhaust hangers, nuts, bolts, fasteners, rear sets, and other misc parts that are made from a metal (aluminum?) that more closely resemble the real 1:1 part.  They add a better sense of realism to the build. 

On my current M1 project I used the SMS M1 template which came in 1:20 scale.  I used the 1:20 for all the exterior parts and used the 1:12 scale for all of the inner fairings.  In hind site I should have used the 1:20 scale high def carbon fiber, I think it is more accurate than the 1:12 plain weave.  I agree with shayne that the 1:12 seems too large however, I think mixing up the CF patterns makes it "pop" a little better.  I have also read that people will cover the CF with a coat of smoke (X-19) and then shoot a coat of clear.  I plan on doing that on the next build to see how it works out for me.

Shayne,
Thank you for the kind words.  I really do not feel my builds are even in the same class as yours and many of the others in this GB (and forum for that matter).  It seems hard to convey across the internet on how to fix something that can be done better, as oppossed to showing someone how it is done (PE for example).  In all honesty this is a hobby that requires a lot of trial and error, and sometimes it's hard for me to maintain the patience to get it right.  I am grateful for this forum and those on it, as they have shown the basic tips and tricks to make things look better (seam filling for example).  Is there a book entitled "Photo Etching for Dummies"

Thanks!!!!
Erik

racer155 wrote:

I forgot to ask you, what's the recomended CF size and type for the 04 M1? I'd like to order that so I can start building it... Thanks again,   Marcelo

1:20 SMS carbon fiber using template for the ram air box under the tank, and 1:12 SMS CF was used for the lower portion of the gas tank itself.  This will give you an idea as to the pattern size between the two.


This is a picture of Joel's NSR build which is a textbook example of using the screen method to paint CF (rear hugger fender)


Do not be afraid to look at any of the past photo's in this thread and ask these guys/gals how they did it.  From experience I can tell you they will be more than happy to help you out.

Hope this helps,
Erik

Is there a book entitled "Photo Etching for Dummies" Thanks!!!! Erik

Wolfpac -I wish there was a book called "photo etching for dummies"as I'm crap at it as well,1st tried it on my Wesr Rcv and didn't use most of it as to fiddley so said never again .Now I'v got some St27 P/E for my spidey bike and thinking what have I done
The only thing I can't work out is why is there only one front disk brake?????? why not do 2 as I'm quite sure most bike's have one each side and wife won't let me buy another set just for 1 disk brake
Shayne

wolfpac wrote:

Is there a book entitled "Photo Etching for Dummies" Thanks!!!! Erik

I actually do have a textbook on photo etching and micro electronics manufacturing from back in college.  =P

Racer,

As far as the handling of PE parts, it really just comes down to experience and using the right tools.  I tend to use a lot of PE for tanks due to a major PE usage explosion in the past year, so I ended up getting that Etch-mate tool made by mission models to help bend the pieces.  I used to use a basic flat no tooth plier for smaller pieces but got an upgrade when the Tamiya specially designed PE plier came out half  a year ago.  Cutting PE parts with an X-acto knife also requires a hard glass or metal surface to avoid bending.  Some people tape up the part to avoid it flying across the room and land in several thousand sq ft of carpeting (in my case).  For me gluing them on is the hardest part since my finger are not CA cement friendly.  Usage of an angled fine tipped tweezer and a CA cement applier (toothpick will do as well or as long as the thin tip can at least still hold some cement) is recommended.  The whole steps goes like cut, bend, and attach.  You yourself have to fill in the blanks along the way of how to do them better, just like how you can never teach somebody airbrushing with basic pictures/text as opposed to a detailed video or in person.  If you want an photo illustrated procedure of those steps to at least give you a basic idea though, let us know and we will try to get something for you.

To emphasize what I mentioned before and what Erik had said as well, you really just gotta buy a set and try it out.  The end result will prove to you that those were the best 15 bucks you ever spent on that bike kit.

shayne wright wrote:

Is there a book entitled "Photo Etching for Dummies" Thanks!!!! Erik Wolfpac -I wish there was a book called "photo etching for dummies"as I'm crap at it as well,1st tried it on my Wesr Rcv and didn't use most of it as to fiddley so said never again .Now I'v got some St27 P/E for my spidey bike and thinking what have I done The only thing I can't work out is why is there only one front disk brake?????? why not do 2 as I'm quite sure most bike's have one each side and wife won't let me buy another set just for 1 disk brake Shayne

Hey that's weird... from this picture

http://www.iaiamedia.be/bestbalsakits/kitsDetail.asp?kitnumber=161

There really is just one, unless one tells me that you are not supposed to glue the top and bottom one together to give the proper thickness to the disc just like how they did the rear disc.  Maybe you can convince the wife to let you buy the lion roar set as it comes with chains as well as the brake discs so you will get your money worth?  =P

http://www.aftermarketarmor.com/product/LE12004

With all the yapping I did I forgot to ask my own question.

This maybe dumb but I really think I've been doing it wrong the whole time after it came up to my head this morning.  The lower cowlings of a gp bike or just anything other bike with full fairings, are they supposed to be two pieces joined from left and right so the seam on the very bottom of the bike should actually be there instead of being a single piece?  'cuz I've been sanding and filling mine...  I was thinking if it were one piece, how hard would it be for the crew to take the pieces off if emergency adjustment or repair is needed during the race.  I've only played around naked bike all my life (just 23 years)at my uncle's garage and never bothered looking hard enough at a superbike in person to notice that detail.

archangel571 wrote:

With all the yapping I did I forgot to ask my own question. This maybe dumb but I really think I've been doing it wrong the whole time after it came up to my head this morning.  The lower cowlings of a gp bike or just anything other bike with full fairings, are they supposed to be two pieces joined from left and right so the seam on the very bottom of the bike should actually be there instead of being a single piece?  'cuz I've been sanding and filling mine...  I was thinking if it were one piece, how hard would it be for the crew to take the pieces off if emergency adjustment or repair is needed during the race.  I've only played around naked bike all my life (just 23 years)at my uncle's garage and never bothered looking hard enough at a superbike in person to notice that detail.

It's not a dumb question, but a really good one.  On most production based street bikes the lower cowel or fairing is actually two parts.  If I remember right my 01 ZX6r was two parts and I know for a fact my 03 CBR 600RR is two parts.  The design for this on street bikes is to allow for easier maintainence.  On most street bikes there is a hole cut ot for the headers on the lowers to allow better airflow (the only reason I can think).  On race bikes however it is the complete opposite.  The entire lower is one piece and completely solid.  The primary purpose of this design is to catch oil in case the filter should come off or the case covers develop a leak.  The last thing anyone on a race track wants is oil on the track, especially on two wheels riding in anger.

 

I hope this helps!

Erik

shayne wright wrote:

Is there a book entitled "Photo Etching for Dummies" Thanks!!!! Erik Wolfpac -I wish there was a book called "photo etching for dummies"as I'm crap at it as well,1st tried it on my Wesr Rcv and didn't use most of it as to fiddley so said never again .Now I'v got some St27 P/E for my spidey bike and thinking what have I done The only thing I can't work out is why is there only one front disk brake?????? why not do 2 as I'm quite sure most bike's have one each side and wife won't let me buy another set just for 1 disk brake Shayne

 

I think I may have a set that I attempted the chain on, got pissed off, picked up the red phone and order a full nuclear release.  I'll check in my spares and if I still have them I'll drop them in the mail for you.

Wolfpac -your the man let me know and will send address,may have something here you after-can I interst you in a full set of rossi Valencia decals even have a spare set of the M1 front fork detail set?
Shayne

shayne wright wrote:

Wolfpac -your the man let me know and will send address,may have something here you after-can I interst you in a full set of rossi Valencia decals even have a spare set of the M1 front fork detail set? Shayne

I had to do a little unpacking but I found it.  It is the lion roar photo etch set. 



I clipped off one side of the chain, the chain adjusters and a part to the clutch I believe (I still have those parts, they are just loose).  PM me your address and I will get them in the mail.

Erik

Wolpac have Pm my address thanks again
Shayne

What am I missing here? I definately see two sets of brake discs on that picture although one is in two pieces and one is mounted. But then again, I don't have the etch nor the instructions in my hand.

/Joel

joelrydh wrote:

What am I missing here? I definately see two sets of brake discs on that picture although one is in two pieces and one is mounted. But then again, I don't have the etch nor the instructions in my hand. /Joel

Joel they show how make one for one side the other one is the kit part,not much of a hassle but why did they only make enough for one ,why not two as any bike use's 2 disk brake one each side of wheel.For the price That we have to pay for the A/F parts you would think they would at least get all of they extra's not half of it if you get what I mean .Don't get me wrong not complaing to much just wish they would get it a bit better,I think someone else on AF had to get 2 sets as well,
annnywaaay
 Have started 2005 movistar bike and spidy bike with figure with a thread on AF
will put a link here for the one's that don't know AF,
Just remember I am a sloooooooooooow builder(6 months to fin a bike is not unheard of)bugger just remembered I have a bike here I started in jan(2005)still waiting to be decaled
Shayne

Sorry just seen this is my 100th post I will now hold a party all invited B.Y.O(bring your own)

But isn't there one disc that is etched in one piece and one that has the center spokes in one and the disc itself in another part? Look at my Parkinson inspirated image below. It looks to me that part number 45 has to go with the one in the circle to the lower right (no 59?) Why they have chosen to split the two is out of my grip without the instructions, but sometimes one of the sides has extra parts to be mounted wich is easier acomplished with the parts separated. S27 most often just show the buildup of one part when you have to do two... But then again, I can be wrong.

/Joel

Hi Joel-those 3 bit's +part a-10 allgo together to make one disk.The one that looks like a full one is really just the center piece ,will take pic of intructions to show
Shayne

here is apic of instrutions

Hi group,

              talking about the M1, I have the new Edwards Laguna M1 on its way . I will take some pics of it and post so you can see the contents.

I am looking forward to doing this baby, may even do a build if I can get the motivation going    :-)

Cheers  Rod.

 

Ok Dave, Now I'm confused Can't imagine why they just made one....

Cheers Rod, show us the plastics and then run off and fix some Fortuna decals!!! So, shush!!

/Joel

racer155 wrote:

Rossi is my favorite so, anything he's ridden I'd like to have, the NSR, the RC211Vs (all variations)   Where did you see that ZZ-RR?...I saw it at Laguna last year and it blew me away!!! plus I ride a 2005 ZX10R on the street....I'm interested in it....

I've done 4 of Rossi's rides so far- 3 RC211V's, and the '04 M1.  And I've still got the NSR 500 on the shelf in addition to another '04 M1 I just picked up last week.  The wife thinks I'm obsessed, especially since I also just finished his autobiography.

 

I think one of the other guys in the group here posted the ZZ-RR up WAAAAY back near the beginning of the build.  Either that, or back in the old days of the RC211V group build (shall it rest in peace).  I heard the '05 ZX-10 is a beast!  I've got an '01 R1 and that thing scares me occasionally, even being a 5- year old "obselete" sportbike.

Yamafreak72,

 

Thanks for the info and what's the deal with Rossi's autobiography you just finished? Are you a writer? done it just for fun?

Since you've builtan 04 M1...did you use CF on the inside of the fairings and tail section?....I think I've seen pix on this board...

Don't be so hard on yourself!..the 01 R1 is still a great bike....anything made on 2000 and on is way ahead of their time for us mortals...I race a 2000 R6 and my roomate an 05 and he still can't catch me on the straight away, corners like a dream and just like in GP races...sometimes I loose the front end and she picks herself up as if she knew it had to be done!...it blows me away, every time! sometimes I think that behind closed doors, japanese engineers, design these bikes breaking all the rules imposed by the system...I think they can't allow themselves to make bikes that can't really perform...

Anyway...I had one last question...I have a set of colors and glue and putty from the last time I built something but these are from 2003 and made by Testors (no idea if Tamiya and Testors colors match) Should I just discard it and go get new stuff?

 

Thank you