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Model Shipways "Sultana" Group Build 2006

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:00 PM
I installed the caprails and planksheers, even though I couldn't replicate Chuck's fine scrolly bits. Just a little touch up work to do. I've nearly got the rudder pintles and gudgeons finished and last night I built half of the deck hatches from packets of grating strips.

Edit: Not sure what happened to the images. They look fine in preview mode.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:55 AM

Fip

 

Your making some great progress.  Wait till you plank the decks.  Thats when the model really starts looking good.  Glad to see your still posting also.  Looks like Donnie stopped posting.  I wonder how he is coming along.  Are you going to glue the gratings with coamings in place first before you plank?  If so, dont forget to paint the decks black underneath them.  It really helps the overall look.

 

Chuck

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:29 AM
Thanks Chuck,

I'm not sure if I am going to place the hatches before or after the planking. I shall use the planking sheet that came with the kit too since I am trying to avoid manual planking on my first build. I'll save that for the next one, which I am sure will be Caldercraft's Sherbourne. I really want to see what Caldercraft's kits are like since I love their Nelson's Navy range. Apart from itching to build their Victory (when I have a few others under my belt of course!), I want to build the Agamemnon as the Indefatigable, which I believe was the same class. I remember you saying Caldercraft were excellent kits, although I have read that their instructions are a little sparse. Mind you, I could say that for Model Shipways too, as far as a beginner is concerned anyway.

I am assuming that ship's would have been planked after the hatches were in place?

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 19, 2006 12:49 PM

Yes they would be planked after the coamings were put in place.  There are some great books on just how the frames of a ship were constructed.  I could start to list them all but can talk to you about that when the time comes.  Most POB kits would not replicate those exact methods anyhow but it sure helps to know how it was really done.  Oh, Caldercraft kits are of excellent quality.  The instructions are inconsistent though from kit to kit.  Thats why it is so important to develop a library to fall back on.  That gets expensive and most public libraries dont have the books you would find most helpful.

 

Chuck

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, October 23, 2006 10:36 PM
Folks -
I am very sorry for being absent for long. So many things have happened. It seems as if I have fallen way way behind !

My father took a bout of illness (more than usuall), and he is not with me any longer as he has passed away.  Somehow, amoungst all of this, I have let my poor Sultana sit by the side, and I must regain my interest so that I can play catch up with everyone. I hope that no one here is upset with me that I took such a long time away from the forum. I miss everyone here and I hope that you all can help me rekindle my love for ships.

Thanks
Donnie D.

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, October 23, 2006 11:10 PM

Hey...you have all of our deepest sympathies, I am sure. Take time to be thankful for how much time you had with him. We'll all still be here.

   Thoughts are with you , sir.

 

                            Greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:55 AM

Donnie,

So sorry to hear about your father.  No one could be upset with you but we did miss seeing your progress.  Your Sultana model is spectacular and you should continue the work.  Heres my advice.  Just spend one hour working on the model where you left off.  My bet is that after 15 minutes that love you had for the hobby will be back.  Before you know it...it will be 1am you have been modeling for for 5 hours and lost track of time.  Try to endulge yourself by blocking out everything else and model.

 

Let me know if there is anything I can do.

 

Chuck

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:53 AM

Donnie, please accept my heartfelt condolences on the passing of your father.  I lost mine in 1990, and the experience still gnaws at me.  Even today, I find myself walking through a bookstore, seeing a new title, and thinking, "there's a good Christmas present for Dad."

I can only think of one good thing to say about the experience of losing a father:  you only have to go through it once.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:22 AM
Thanks everybody.
I hope that I can blow the dust off my workbench tonight and get started. By the Way - Chuck has a most wonderful ship - his is very inspiring to say the least.

Donnie
I hope that I can rekindle building again tonight

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:28 AM
Welcome Back Donnie! We missed you. Let me join the others in offering my sympathy for your loss. That is enough to distract anyone from their hobbies. We aren't mad at you, we just missed you.

I can't wait to hear more about your progress. Oh and pop along to modelshipworld if you haven't already done so, to see Chuck's progress on his Mayflower. Great stuff!

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 1:03 PM
Well,
last night I started on the Keel, Stem and sternpost ( I guess I got that right). I don't think that I will like fooling with the Transom, but it has to be done. Besides, I don't think the ship will look quite right without it Smile [:)]

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, October 28, 2006 6:32 PM

Well,

I will be mounting my Rudder next - maybe Sunday. Then I guess I am on to the Transom, which again I am not looking forward to. It seems like one of those task that could go on forever. I should not complain as this ship is not as complicated nor is it a scratchbuild.

I hurt my back (again) so I am limited to how much sitting I can do.

 

Donnie 

 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 29, 2006 1:17 AM
Donnie, I hope your back gets better again soon. If you're worried about your transom, just read back how I made a total mess of the stern of my ship and that you just couldn't possibly do as bad a job of it as I did. :) I bet yours comes out a lot better than mine and I can't wait to see your photos. As you can see, my deck is coming along nicely. My "stern curse" struck again when I made a mess of the decking right near the rudder extension. I should have measured the hole precisely rather than thinking I could patch the decking seamlessly. Ah well... we live and learn. :) I intend to cover the joins with coils of rope or something. I'm totally loving this as a hobby.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 30, 2006 1:07 PM

Fippy,

Shes coming out great.  Nice and clean.  I can tell your hooked.  Wait till you start accumulating tools and kits like a pack rat.  It cant be helped.  Once again very nice job and keep the pics coming.  I enjoy seeing you progress.  Have you hit any other big hurdles other than the stern?

 

Chuck

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, November 2, 2006 11:58 AM

Ok, here are some pics of the latest.

I am ready to start on the brass pieces for the Rudder and start building the Transom today. I want to say that if you see some marks and some dings that is just due to accidently breaking something or whatever that I plan to go back and touch up more as I go along. I wanted to show the detail of the rudder opening area. I got that off of a webiste and I will be glad to share that site, but I need to go back and look it up. That web site BTW was suggested by someone else on this SGB.

 

 

 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 2, 2006 12:13 PM

Coming along very very nicely. I love that rudder hole detailing, that looks great! A really nice touch. I eagerly await how your transom turns out.

Keep it going, Donnie.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, November 2, 2006 10:29 PM

I can tell you that I am taking a break from trying to mount the transom. I am not going to be able to make the windows like I want.

I will soon post images of this sad story later :-)

 

Donnie 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Friday, November 3, 2006 11:12 AM

LOL...your "sad story" blows mine out of the water!  Nice job!

              greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, November 7, 2006 1:11 PM

I was thinking today how fantastic it is to share our interest with each other.  I was also thinking "why do I post the pictures of my ship anyway?" I guess it is a sense of "accomplishments" and to give and receive a sense that I am not the only one that is building these ships. I don't feel like I am the only one out there racking my head over a set of manufactures plans and directions that do not seem to make much sense and that I am not alone. So when I post my pictures, it is more like, "this is what I have done and my accomplishments" not so much that I have anything to boast about. All along in building this Sultana, I have had a sense of "I am lost as to what to do"

In a way, I am almost disenchanted with the instructions and plans that came with the model. If it were not for people in the SGB and also Chucks practicum to "go by" and I use the term go by, becuase I am not out to make a model based on exact things that he did. I want my ship to personify Donnie. I also want to reemphasize that I turn to Chucks practicum when I get stuck.

It almost seems that Model Expo over sold the Sultana and saying how easy it is to build. I guess it must be me, but I guess I am used to the plastic versions that the pieces have already been molded and there is really not too much that can go wrong. However, with the Wooden ships, there is infinite amounts of decisions about what to do. How much to sand, how much to paint, what shade of paint, where do I place the plankshear, and other items and the list goes on and on.

I don't mean to complain about model expo, but somehow, they need to come up with a model for beginners that has more TRUE hull already formed. They need to have more LASER cut parts so as to eliminate the guesswork.

You know why I base this information is becuase several months ago, I bought the Midwest Lobster Boat for R/C control. Well, upon opening the box, I was first greeted with a instruction booklet as thick as a magazine with hundreds of steps. The steps were so elementary that it left NO guesswork what-so-ever.  What to glue, where to glue and how to glue. What part goes exactly were and for what purpose.

I know that the Lobster Boat cost like 3 times the other, but good greif, you know, after thinking about it, it seems that the Sultana is not for beginners.

I am sorry for going on like this and it is not my purpose to discourage anyone, but you know, someone else out there on this forum might be just as much discouraged and I am here to tell you that if I can do it , you can to, and THIS is why I post my images. To let others know that even though in my opinion that this kit is really not that fantasic, it can be done. I am thinking about that first modeler that has no clue about ships, how do you think they would deal with this kit? I have some experience with ship building and I am having difficulty with this model, so would someone feel that has never tackled on of these before. Well, the answer I guess lies in this SBG forum to help and people like me having a difficult time can relate to those others that are having a difficult time as well. As a matter of fact, I am wondering right now how many of you that finally got the hull sanded down ever thought that you could muddle thru the rest of it like the thought that I had. I thought to myself "Thank goodness I made it that far even though I am not 100% for sure that I did it right. I am sending out this message to those to take heart even though you might be having problems, I know that I am, but I am trying not to get discouraged. Pick up the ship again with a renewed interest and think that there is no one to impress but just yourself. If you are happy with your ship, then that is all that matters. I am trying to get happy with my build. What is a fantastic model? the one that YOU are proud of !

Dont' give up -

Donnie 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Hi again
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 7, 2006 5:14 PM

It's been quite a while since I was here,  this time of year is really busy for work and I had to take a break to help my son build his Pine Car Derby Racer.  Then my daughter decided she wanted to join in so we all did one.  But my workbench is cleared and I am back to work on the Sultana again. 

Glad to see all the pictures and recent posts.  I will post some pictures tonight.  Still having trouble with my transom windows, I have probably made 20 windows and have yet to get a set that I really like.  Will try a method later tonight  though that will hopefully yield the results I am looking for.  

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 7, 2006 5:26 PM

 

My first model from Model Expo was the Black Prince.  I did not realize how difficult it would be to build until after I received it and started trying to put together the directions.  It took me over a year but I feel that I was able to build a decent model.  There is still a few details that I need to complete on it but I like the results so far and I am leaning towards making a diorama type display with my almost completed model sitting at the pier awaiting its final outfittle prior to sailing.  I live in the New Bedford, MA area wich gives me a very old port to find information and pictures to scratchbuild a era specific waterfront from.  This time however I am glad that I have somewhere to get advice and ideas from for this new model.  I will say however though that a solid hull Donnie is much easier then a plank on bulkhead build.  I think in comparison that is why Model Expo states that the Sultana is a popular build.  Though I believe that they do overstate the ease of shaping the hull.  I added planking to the hull but would say that carving and shaping the hull of this ship was not easy to do.  I do like the directions though and feel that they are far easier then the 4 pages I received with the Black Prince.  In fact I do no intend  to build anymore ships that have a 4 and 6 page plan for directions.  The rigging plan was so complicated that I had to buy a seperate book to complete the model.

 

Dan

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, November 7, 2006 8:50 PM

Hi Dan

I am glad to see you back on the Sultana again, and I can't wait to see those windows!

Donnie

 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 11:28 AM

As usual, not taking my time to make quality pictures, but here is my progress so far.  I keep reminding myself that this is a hobby right?  

Everybody enjoy - thanks for tuning in.

 

ps. I am going to completely redo that front piece - its   "u g l y !!!"  and its also for those to laugh at - hey I know its funny looking. Just need to bring it back into the ship yard for some more work ! On a serious note, I am realy not happy with the wood that was used to make that stempost and that cut out for the figure head. The wood kept on cracking and would not do what I want it to do. It seems that the wood supplied should have been much harder wood. But at anyrate, I am going to cut that off and maybe go by some harder wood that I can fashion better. 

Donnie 

 

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 11:37 AM

Donnie,

 I for one empathise with your post and almost for the exact same reasons. As a newbie I didn't expect my first build to take 5 hours, nor be anything like the little Airfixaircraft kits I used to glue together as a kid. In fact I was definitely after something challenging, something to stretch my talents, take a LONG time and take all my attention. I work as a software engineer and so time away from the screen is very welcome to me as I get older. :)

 I totally agree  about the instructions for the Sultana. I too don't want to overly criticise Model Shipways since the kit is excellent, and is a fairly simple ship to start with. I certainly wouldn't feel confident scratchbuilding at this stage. For the money, which is very reasonable, I expect the medium quality of the metal components and roughly-shaped hull. I would, like you, have expected much more detailed instructions. Without you guys and Chuck's practicum I think I would have gotten lost by now. Their instructions are really quite brief.

Of course one could argue that it takes a lot of money to produce detailed instructions with sketches and photos, etc., and it does. I'm wondering if a good solution would be for companies like Model Shipways to solicit the help of experienced modellers. I bet almost any skilled modeller would be only too happy to invest time in writing a practicum for the cost of a free copy of the kit and a credit, or some token fee like $1000. It doesn't have to be as detailed as Chuck's, nor have suggest rebuilding the components at each step, but simply use the kit components with detailed steps.

Thank God for communities on the web like this one, and all the clubs around the world, to help out and encourage newcomers.

Keep posting those photos Donnie, and I shall do the same! Our ships may differ but I love seeing how you did things differently to me and I am definitely learning from everything you post. :)

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 11:43 AM

Wow, nice work!!

You really moved along from your last photos! She looks great, especially the transom with the white frames and the detail on the caprails. Nice.

The stem is definitely a strange shape without all the cheeks and knees. Are you going to use the figurehead? I'm not - I'm doing mine as the British took it and I believe they removed the figurehead. I broke mine in a couple of places too, but judicious glueing, filling and sanding renders is invisible, especially under the paint. I'm glad I'm painting and not staining - paint hides more sins.

Keep her coming. She looks great.

Oh, and welcome back Dan. :)

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 3:26 PM

I still cannot figure out how to upload images if anyone can help me out here.

 I have them in photobucket but cannot get them to here.

Thanks

Dan

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 3:29 PM

Donnie,

 Your model is looking just fine.  Its a pleasure to see how everyone made each Sultana their own.  They are very unique.  I agree with your earlier statements about instructuions from kit manufacturers.  Model shipways has agreed to post my first builders guide on their website but I havent sent them the Sultana guide yet.  I have been really busy but I hope they will post this one as well.  The guides are really large files though and they seem to post them as one rediculously huge download.  I will try and convince them to break out each chapter so folks wont have to wait long for the download. 

 Anyway.  Donnie's comparison of plastic kits vs. wooden was interesting to me.  I experienced the opposite.  I bought two plastic kits so I could build them with my kids.  They were intermediATE LEVEL BI PLANES.  I have to tell you I am completely lost and frustrated.  I think that experience is felt with both types of modelling.   Each one has a learning curve.  I havent given up yet but have stopped building them.  In order to give them the proper attention, I need to buy several guides and books to show me the proper techniques working with plastic.  I am not eager to start over again with another learning curve just yet so I continue work in wood.  Go figure. .....And I wish to thank everyone here for their kind words and support with regard to my guides.  It means a lot and I will certainly write more of them since Model shipways has reintroduced several additional solid hull kits.  I just dont know which to build first.

 Chuck

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 3:38 PM

Dan

 If you have the web address for each of your photos then all you have to do is place that web address between these two HTML tags.

 [img]http://www.webaddresshere.com[//img]

 

Please note however that I included two forward slashes in the closing tag otherwise you wouldnt be able to see the code.  So remove one of them so it looks like this  /img  and dont forget the open brackets and closing brackets around each tag. 

Chuck

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by Yankee Clipper on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 7:07 PM

Gentlemen,

Enjoy your group build and would just like to pass on some great pics of Sultana  1 on 1 scale. Please go to Dry Dock Models web site and in the Forum under General Discussion see "Downrigging Weekend". I think you might enjoy.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 9:18 PM

 

Looks like that worked, thank you for the tip.  This is where I am picking it up from again.  Will post pictures of the stern when I finish,  I abandoned the one in the pics and started again.  Don't like the windows here.

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