Model Shipways "Sultana" Group Build 2006

Hi Donnie,

Sorry to have been absent so long - I still have issues with the not so new job (I'm off to school again in a couple of weeks) but I have made some progress.  My wife and I decided to do some renovations around the house now that all our kids have moved away and I now have a bedroom that has been converted into a hobby/office area.  I'll post pictures sometime this week.  In the mean time I have had little time to work on the model but I have begun shaping the hull - and I still think I will plank all of it.  For lighter fair I have been working on a couple of plastic models - need decent decorations for my office.

You and jiffy have been making great progress.  I like what you've both accomplished and look forward to seeing the pictures - gives me great ideas and techniques to use as I get to where you guys are now.  Don't be discouraged about the group, I think most of us are still here just nowhere near where you 2 are at this point.  I hope to be posting more often from here on in, but I've said that before and ended up with less time right after, so I'm a little hesitant to say it now.

Keep up the good work.

Cmac

Yeah, don't worry about it Donnie. Don't compare it to other groups. All that matters is that we are having fun and learning from each other, whether that is 2 people, 5 or 50. I for one am REALLY glad you started this group. It was the first mention of the Sultana I came across in terms of people building it, and actually still remains the only one I know. I think that if this group had not existed I probably would have got bogged down in MS's instruction book and given up. :( You and Chuck and occassionally others here have kept me going. So although I am biased, I am very thankful that this group exists.

You're going great guns. I don't expect to finish perhaps even by May/June which I think will be a whole year. Not that I care about that. It's the journey: the fun and the relaxation I get from modelling, that I got into this hobby, less than actually having the completed ships. I bet everyone takes a really long time on their first build.

I'm glad I started in a small group too. I think if I had been modelling alongside 50 people I would have felt threatened and a need to keep up. This group has been an ideal start for me.

In summary, this has been a fantastic group for me. I'm very glad it got started. Don't give up on it yet. :)

Fippy,

I am thankful for your attitude and encouragement. I am or was afraid that you might become discouraged as well.  Just keep up the good work. I don't think there is a rush to finish.

I have got my fore and main mast done. No yards or anything of the sorts. I get distracted too.

Donnie 

Here's a somewhat blurry (sorry) photo of the catheads, gunposts and timberheads on my model. I'm currently fighting with all the cheek knees and details. I keep breaking them :(

Got started on my Chain Plates.  Got to get those timberhead cut down - they are too high

Hi Donnie,

I'm sorry for not getting to participate in this GB.  The usual delays in getting my kit got in the way such a work, and the addition of two pre-teenagers to my houshold has kept me busy.  I hoped to start on the Sultana after Nationals was over, but I ended up doing a commision build as a Christmas present, then I started a 1/96 Consititution for my new master bedroom (that is still not sheetrocked).  Good priority eh?  Build the ship before the room is done.

I am still going to build this kit, and maybe plank it since I like the all natural wood look.  I have been staying close to this build and am impressed with everyones craftmanship.  We seem to have a lot to learn from each other and it feels that we are all in good company. No professional egos to get in the way.

For being the only wooden sailing ship GB here, I say that this GB has been doing well.  6 months and there is still activity.  I have been in AC groupbuilds that, although popular, seem to die within 6 days. 

 The folks at Model Ship World are expecting at least two years to be on the HMS Triton GB.  It will be interesting to see how some will progress.  I look forward to this GB lasting another 6 months.  Maybe with all new posters.

Best regards,

Scott 

Hey Scottrc - thanks for tuning in.

I have some new photos for everyone - starting on the ratlines.

Donnie

1 down and maybe 30 more to go?  A couple hundred knots for the ratlines.

Nice thing with a ship like the Sultana, there is a moderate amount of deadeyes to rig up that makes the build comfortable.  Much better then looking at 168 for the Constitution and the more than 2000 knots for the ratlines and shrouds. 

Fippy,

Don't worry, you couldn't have asked for a better kit to learn the "ropes" on. The Sultana's rig is simular to any other square rigged ship like the Victory or Cuttysark; yet it just isn't as complex.  Also, being, wood, it is much more forgiving then learning on a plastic kit.  Tying ratlines is just like tying flys.  You sit down, put on some music or a good TV program, place your cardboard pattern behind the shrouds, and just weave your way up one knot at a time.  You may be surprised how much you'll get done in an evening and really enjoy it.  My mother in law tells me it is just like needlepoint.  Its not the quantity of knots, its the quality of the time enjoying doing the work.

Scott 

Hi Greg,

it is nice to hear from ya !

Donnie 

Thank you Fippy - it does take a certain amount of concentration to do this. It isn;t that hard, just takes alot of focus. It takes about 5 to 7 minuites for me to tie each step. I would say that it takes me about 5 to 6 hours to make one complete shroud. I am going to do thr two at the front of the ship and then focus my attention on the Main Boom. I found some ultra tiny beads at the local Hobby Lobby that I am going to use for the parrals.

Donnie 

Well I finally made some more progress. I fought for quite some time with the bow cheeks, knees and head timbers and just couldn't get them right. They are too fiddly. The photos show what I finally came up with. Not exactly accurate but I'd rather move on than just get frustrated.

 Now I'm working on the deadeyes along the chains. It took me a few nights to make 16 wrapped deadeyes. Damn fiddly little things :) I broke a few along the way and superglued my fingers a few times too. But they're done at last and tomorrow I hope to assemble them.

Fippy,

I am glad to see you make progress. I certainly do not see anything wrong with your cheek knees. Looks great to me. You will not get an argument out of me

Here are some shots of my rigging on the Bowsprit section - mighty tedious !!!

Donnie

Most of these shots are just repetitous, but what the heck.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Donnie. :)

 Your rigging looks mighty fine. Very ship-shape. I can't wait until my Sultana looks as advanced as yours. 

Forgive this cut and paste from MSW. I'd say the same things anyway. :)

Like the cheeks and knees at the bow, I had a lot of "fun" building the poop rails and gun stanchions. I break at least two small pieces every session and end up rebuilding one or doing a repair. Luckily it is not time-consuming to rebuild some of these pieces. I've finally learned to stop putting my fingers on the bow for support and breaking off the head timbers. This model is just too small for my fat hands. 

One major lesson I learned is that aligning things early on is vital since the inaccuracies gang up on you over time. My original cat rails are not quite horizontal which gave my poop rails a lean inboard and some of the poop rail stanchions are not abeam each other. I've learned to pay more attention to scanning the ship from all angles before cutting or gluing.

I also see all the imperfections in my joins and painting that look glaringly obvious to me. I'm sure I shall improve. Better brushes would help I think. Does everyone cringe over their imperfections I wonder? I'm sure they will not be obvious in the glory of the finished model, especailly behind glass. These are just some thoughts I am going through as I build.

So here are the latest photos before I move on to the bowsprit.

Fippy - nice work as usual. It looks like you are really coming along. It feels like forever that I am going to finish mine.

Here are some pics of my Main Boom. 

Donnie 

Fippy,

this is the web site that I used for most of my documentation:

http://ship25bsa.org/images/03081923_HMS_SULTANA/HMS_SULTANA.html

I hope this helps. I applogize if I have not shown you this before.

Donnie 

however, let me say that I am not really happy with the Black Main Boom. I do like what others have done. But, I guess I charted my own course with this one and looked at a real vessel to see what was going on.

Donnie

I am working on the Gaffs now which gets me deeper into the rigging. Again, this is supposed to be a ship for us beginners or novices.... yep !!!!

Again, forgive a repost of my post over at MSW, it really says most of what I want to say:

I am definitely finding the upper details much harder than working on the hull, as you might remember from my earlier posts about rigging blocks and deadeyes. The fine detail is very difficult for me, although practice does help.

Making the bowsprit was a lot of fun and the rigging on that was straightforward. As you can see though, I did make the mistake of attacking the jackstaff perpendicular to the bowsprit rather than vertical. Lesson learned.

I had a hell of a job building the chain plates. I just couldn't fold those little pieces of wire without a) making a mess of the wire, b) breaking the little hoops they go through, or c) a couple of times I separated the entire channels from the hull. Grrr... I finally got them on but if you look closely at them from the bow or stern they look a mess. From amidships they don't look too bad. My reasoning on this, my maiden build, is to do the best job I can on the basis that the overall effect will be good and most people won't notice the details. I can improve on my next model, I hope.

Right now I am trying to rig the shrouds and having another hell of a job a) threading the lanyards through the deadeye holes, and b) ensuring the upper deadeyes are level.

I realise that a large part of my problems are that I can't apply CA glue accurately enough. I don't know how everyone else does this since my fine-tip applicators always seem to glue shut or get hopelessly clogged, whether I use a pin to keep the tip open or not. The glue-pens are no good since they seem to require too much pressure to activate and that isn't possible on floating rigging. I keep glueing the holes shut on my deadeyes and blocks. I am obviously lacking tricks of the trade

From the photos you can see another mistake I made (or probably many) - I used tiny elastic bands on the masts. Chuck suggested tiny hoops of manila folder but mine kept fraying or wouldn't stick. The bands looked good at first but now I realise that they are far too transparent.

Donnie, you are whizzing away. Stuck as I am on the first couple of shrouds I realise just quickly you zoomed through all of that. You must be almost done by now?!

Fippy,

I would not be so hard on yourself. Your Model is "clean" and is fine looking. I am mounting my Yards and I am almost finished. I had thought about making a short video on how I did each area, but it seems that it is alot of trouble and my wife is not around at the time to help make the video.

If you don't mind, I can sit down later (later is now, and I am writing the full write up) and write out some type of procedure that I did to do my shrouds, but I can say that for me it was a challange.

I always try to think of a "jig" that will help do the work better and faster. In the case of the shrouds, I had to come up with a jig to help.

I don't know if I can explain this or not, but lets say that you have all the lower deadeyes installed (from the chainplates thru the channels, and then your deadeye). What I did was that I took a piece of the brass wire and made a twisty looking kind of jig. The jig is about 1 inch in length. It is two pieces of brass wire 1 inch in length that is twisted together. ON each end of the wire the wire spreads out and "bends" so that each wire will go thru the bottom deadeye. The other end of the brass wire is the same. It is bent and the two wires are spread apart so that the wires can go thru the holes of a deadeye that you want to put on there. Now you can take the rigging line and bring it down to the deadeye that is "steadied" by that brass wire, becuase the brass wire is a HOLDING JIG that holds everything in place so taht you can run your rigging line thru the deadeye and sieze it. This guarntees same method of each mounting of the deadeye.Look on page 17 and figure 26 of the manual and you will see what this jig looks like.

I do not have a problem with my glue stopping up. I guess I am lucky. I use this brand of glue: KROXX 301 Net 20g and I got this from Model Expo online (www.modelexpo-online.com)

I bought some of those short applicator tips that has the super tiny hole. You have to make sure that NO air is getting in and around the additional tip on the bottle. I used tape or eletrical tape or scotch tape to secure the tip onto the bottle to make sure NO air gets in at any other place. the Tiny opening stays open all the time for days and never "stops up". I hate to see you have problems otherwise.

I Need to send you pics of what I have so far. Gee, I guess I need to get the camera out and do this now. Ok, so now I have some pics for you. I wish that I had taken some videos of how to do this, but just couldn't get to it. If you send me an email I can help more.

Donnie 

Good luck - anything I can do to help just let me know. 

Donnie 

Thanks Fippy for the compliments !  I made my own case. I have a table saw and I made mine last year to hold another model that I made, but did not use the case. I will use that case on the Sultana. The case was made with 3/8" square rods of pine. I cut the groove for the glass using the table saws depth gauge. I will send pics of that too.

I think that I might try the Phantom next since it seems even simpler than the Sultana. I still can't believe that Model Shipways is considering the Sultana as a beginner model. BTW, I wrote Model Shipways a long letter stating some disappointments. Mostly, the lack of enough rigging line. I had to order 3 more of the large and small rigging line. You might as well order it cause you gonna need it. I also had to order some more dowels for the yards. It seems that they underestimate the amount of materials needed. At any rate, good luck. I think your ship has some very clean lines to it. It really looks like a professional job !!!

I have a Mid West Lobster R/C boat that I am wanting to build next. I bought it about a year ago and the Sultana took the front seat as far as finishing it. I have trouble working on more than one model at one time. Ihave to focus on one project at a time.

I also got the USS Constitution 1/96 scale for Christmas 06 that I am going to have to settle into at some point. 

I am looking forward to the Mid West Lobster boat. It is almost 30" long and remote control and best of all NO Rigging

If you have to order more parts for the Sultana, you should have a parts list that all the parts start with the letter designation of WP-  Like one of the rigging line is WP1218. Go to the Model Expo online web site and in the SEARCH type in MS1218. In other words REPLACE all the WP with an MS and this will give you the part number on their web site. I don't know why they did not go ahead and use the PREFIX of MS on their Parts list in the first place.

Donnie 

Got my Ships Boat done. That carriage is made from scratch and I am not taking credit for any historical accuracy, I am just shooting for what works.

Donnie