Model Shipways "Sultana" Group Build 2006

When I did the front I did not like the look of the notch for the figure head and I completed removed it as you can see in the photo;  dont know how authentic it looks though,  any thoughts?.

It seems that you are hard at work at yours as well. I don't know what to say or suggest about the front Stempost area. I am too having difficulty with this and plan to remove mine and start again. I think it is the consensus of the SGB that everybody is going to have a different take on how their ship should be. 

I am going to go get some much harder wood and shape it for my sterpost area as I am not happy with it. I wished that the Sultana would have at least come with a laser cut stempost so that their would not be any misinterpretation of how it should be. I know that we have the plans and also Chucks practicum, but still I think that Model Shipways should have provided more laser cut pieces. The Transom piece also could have been laser cut with the windows already punched out. I am not that thrilled with my windows, but that is ok. 

I have to come back that this is a past time hobby, even though I tend to take my hobbies seriously.

Just keep up the work on your ship, it will turn out to be a ship that you will be proud of I am sure.  I am certainly not trying to enter my ship in a contest. I am doing this for relaxation and fun. I wanted to start this Group Build becuase I knew that i would need the assistance of all and plus mostly, it is more fun to do this with many people at the same time as I do not feel alone in this venture.

Donnie 

I agree Donnie, that we need to put everything in perspective. 

I'm not too happy with my stern windows either, but I have spent a great deal of my life being a perfectionist. As I get older I am constantly trying to "let go" and relax. I still firmly believe that a job worth doing is worth doing well and I'm not one to give up easily.. however, I also realise that I am building ships for fun and if I either stress too much or keep rebuilding the part over and over then I'm not getting the maximum benefit of this amazing hobby.

I also accept that this is my maiden build in a brand new hobby so I'll allow myself some mistakes. I doubt my first ship is going to impress seasoned modellers, but it will be MY ship and I will know that I built her, and that my next one will be better.

Work as hard as you can to make it as good as you can, but know when to move on. :)

Fippy wrote:

Work as hard as you can to make it as good as you can, but know when to move on. :)

Fippy,

that was very nicely put. I too am perfectionist, and I am still learning. I think the older I get, the less perfectionist I try to be. I just do things (modeling) that pleases me. So far all my ships have been seen by my wife and maybe a few others.

Donnie

My encouragement to all is to not become discouraged - we are all in this together to build that ship that each of us are uniquely proud of.

Well, I just could not let that poor stem alone as it looked horried. I cut off the stem near the hull and completely rebuild it. I think it looks better and I like it better. I must say to myself that if I took more time at this, I think I could produce a better model. I was looking at some ships last night at some mighty fine craftsmanship and it encouraged me to put forth more effort.  I guess I am spoiled by the plastic version in which everything is premolded and just glue the part in place. To me it was all about making that plastic part "look better" with aging and weathering techniques that I enjoy.  However, again with Wood, "you" are the captain of how it is going to turn out. You are in complete control of that "strip" of wood and how it is to be cut and fashioned. Yes, there is an "art" to this !

enjoy the pics.

Donnie

ps. those pictures don't lie about the touch up work that needs to be done. It is amazingly upsetting how the camera picks up on blemishes that you didn't think are there !

Hello to Donnie and Everyone again!

First, I was saddened to hear of your Father's passing, Donnie.  There always seems to be plenty of time for things until, suddenly, it's over and what are left are the memories.  At first for me, when my Father passed, there was an emptiness but in time I began to see myself more and more in the role he played - to my children and grandchild.  Your Father will always be with you because he left you with part of himself and, with time, the physical loss will lessen and the memories deepen.  My, and my family's, sympathy go to you.

As to you model, congratulations!  You said, I believe, at one point, that you were used to plastic and did not expect the Sultana, a wood kit, to be as easy.  Well, that's kind of true. But there again, if you didn't like the way the stem came out on a plastic model, would it be as easy to cut off and rebuild at this stage of the modeling process?  Would you even bother to notice that the plastic stem wasn't what you expected?  Maybe not because someone else made it and all you were supposed to do was glue it on.  This time it's your work you are judging and, as your skills have so nicely improved as you modeled, you began to notice the early work not up to the present standard.  I venture to guess, after you've build a few more models from either scratch or minimally detailed material, you will look back on your early models with a more "wizened" view thinking how they could be improved.

In the mean time, and it looks like I am speaking for most of the folks on this build, your modeling is inspiring.  I haven't even gotten to finishing the hull!  After my last post I was packed off again by my company and sent on another learning thing.  The last couple of weeks my wife and I have been remodeling our son's old bedroom into a - yeah! - hobby room!  So, I will probably not be working on the kit again until next week when I finish, but I watch this forum as much as possible - it spurs me on!  All you guys are doing a great job - keep up the good work!

A note for jtilley - a couple of times you have mentioned, in other forum posts, not understanding why Marx would make a metal deck for the Sea Witch model.  I think I know - for years (I believe from around 1915) Marx was a major toy manufacturer of, you guessed it, tinplate (lithographed) toys!  Very big also in the train and, later, plane toy market.  Some of their lithograph toys are quite collectible (and expensive) due to the fineness of their work.  They competed directly against the toy makers from Germany who, until the end of WWI, were the worlds best - that title ended up going to Marx.  In fact, Marx competed successfully against Lionel and Gilbert (American Flyer and Erector) although they were never as popular as either.  I believe it (the deck) was tin because it's what they knew best.  I wonder if that kit wasn't their trying to break into (or out of) the mold they had created as a toy maker and reach out to other markets?

Soon, I hope, I will be back joining all of you in the build.  And Donnie, you are your best critic.  If you're not satisfied with something, try it again after tackling a couple of other things - the skill will be there judging by what you have accomplished so far.  Look at the reworked stem - much better in your more critical eye now then when you first built it.   After all, isn't part of the fun building these things the satisfaction of learning how to do it better?

Have fun -

Chris

Is it too late to join this group built? I've been away from the forums for some time and only just yesterday saw the GB badge on some of the ship forum posts. I've been working on this same kit since earlier this year. I am rigging her as modified by the Royal Navy.

Ed.

No, it is not late to join. We would be delighted to have you in the group.  I started the group because I thought it would be nice to have the support from fellow builders to build something all together.  As it turned out, we have aquired many that have joined. Everyone is at different stages of their project.

I encourage you to become active in the SGB "Sultana Group Build" and post images of your ship and post regularly.

Thanks

Donnie 

Some more progress (building that is)

Donnie 

Thanks, Donnie. I'll do that.

 Hmmmm, posting images .... something else to learn <g>

 Ed.

In a previous "post" here on the SGB, Chuck wrote

" If you have the web address for each of your photos then all you have to do is place that web address between these two HTML tags.

 [img]http://www.webaddresshere.com[//img]

 Please note however that I included two forward slashes in the closing tag otherwise you wouldnt be able to see the code.  So remove one of them so it looks like this  /img  and dont forget the open brackets and closing brackets around each tag. 

Chuck"

Donnie adds:

If you haven't already, you will need to get a free or paid account with a hosting site like Photobucket. This is what I use adn I have found that it is very straight forward with little learning curve. You will want to make your images 800 x 600 pixels in size.

go to www.photobucket.com and set up a free account. Load up your images. Set up a link in the forum postings and then everybody can see your stuff ! 

The main thing is to make sure that your IMAGE TAG is set up correctly. Follow the example in this post. If you have any problems, send me an email by clicking on the email link at bottom of the post.

Donnie 

Nice work Donnie! I like your new stempost and your deck furniture is very clean. I especially like your ladder! I had a lot of problem with that - I kept breaking it. How did you make your hatches? They don't look like the effect you get when you glue hatch strips together. You are zooming along nicely there.

I've been in the UK for a week but I'm back in nice warm California again. I shall return to my own model probably Friday, so expect some photos next week.

It's nice to see others jumping back into the forum. Welcome! I can't wait to see photos and tales of your modelling adventures. :)

Bear with me on my "still" lack of good natical knowledge. The fore and aft Hatches and the one with the ladder are from the kit (the metal ones). I just used the Model Shipways paint that I ordered with the kit to paint them with. I used the yellow and the red and black. This is what I did. The first thing I grabbed was the Black and I painted the whole hatch with black so that the black would fill in the tiny holes in the grating. I waited for about 1 minute and took a small hand towel and rubbed the black off of the hatch and what happened is that the black was still "filled" in the hatch holes. Basically I used alot of black paint to completely fill in the holes so that when I wiped across the hatch all of the black paint would be removed except for the very top surface of the hatch. THe rest of this I just painted very carefully the hatch gratings with the yellow and trimmed in Red. This technique was done for the fore and aft hatches.

Now the midship hatch, I did not like the one supplied for only one reason. I could not get the raised individual hatch ring hoops to be painted. Chuck made his from scratch and even made his hoops from scratch.

SO I followed suit on that as well. I went ahead and made the midship hatch from scratch with the individual hatch plank covers. I then went to a local Hobby Lobby in the jewelery department and they had what is called an "eye pins" and "jump rings" . The eye pins were 2" long so I had to cut just about all of that length off. I then hammered the eye pin into the hatch plank until a small "arch" was visible. I just did it this way only becuase that is what I choose to do. No reference materials. I am not sure if I am going to add those hoop rings to the top of those arches or not. I would have to scratch make those as the purchased "jump rings" are little too big.

I then have some "Glaze" paint that I can not remember what the brand is. I am not at my home computer right now as I am out of town visiting other family members. The Glaze was used on all of the hatches and as a matter of fact on the whole ship. This glaze is nice as it leaves a very mild finish and can be applied in multiple coats to achieve the results that you like. One thing that I like about this glaze is that the more you put, the darker and richer the wood or paint finish gets.

Ok the Glaze name on the bottle actually just says "Glaze" and again I am not at my work bench so this is all I know. If I had to make a guess right now, it would be a Floquil or Model Masters type.

Well this should be enough info for you Fippy and others. I will post some more pics when I get back home.

I dread building the rails for the stem, cheek knees and such, this is going to be tough. I think what makes it tough is the fact that it points back to the directions and plans that MS gives us. It is good that we have Chucks practicum. I really feel for those that got this model and I know that they must be having a hard time.  Now this is just my humble opinion. I think that MS needs to seriously revisit this ship and offer MUCH more laser cuts parts. I say that this would be very good for the beginner. This model expect too much scratch building for a beginner. I am sorry - just my opinion. I would not mind paying a little more like $125 if they would have included more lazer cut parts to help along with the assembly. I think about myself and the ones that are coming from the plastic world. I think that people that are coming from Plastic into wood, still have a since of putting parts together. The first wood modeler does not need to get deeply involved in trying to build out cheek knees and extensive railings on their first Model. What I mean by first Model is Model Expo claiming that this is a good first ship to build. I might right them a encouraging letter to the effect. I like MS and I plan to buy the Phantom when all of this is over. I also have a Bluenose II that I bought like many many years ago that I need to finish. But you know that the enitre windlass and other parts are all lazer cut. Anyway, sorry for the side bar of ranting. I am not upset nor mad, I just hate to see a first inspired modeler on this SGB to get discouraged if they seem to have problems. Afterall, this is one of the main reasons I wanted to to this SGB, becuase I knew that I might have problems and if I have problems with it, then I know that someone else "out there" would have simular problems. We can all build this ship together and be proud of "your" finished product.  So, if those of you that are getting discouraged, please don't but get that ship out and go at it again and lets do it !

Thanks for listening to my long winded self this morning !!  Happy Thanksgiving to everybody.

Donnie

Fippy,

that is a VERY nice work indeed !

Donnie 

I agree with you, Donnie, head rails can be scary  for the first-timer, but they needn't be. If you take a look at the plans sheet, you will see that they are all straight in at least one dimension. For example, the head rails are curved in the body plan (sections) and the sheer plan (full side view), but straight on the deck plan. Use this to your advantage and make them from a straight piece that you bend in the other dimensions as needed, first one way and then the other. It isn't as bad as it sounds.

On the issue of laser cut parts, I am not sure I agree with you. They do have a place. For instance, I recently saw the Bluejacket laser cut mast hoops. They're terrific and would look great after sanding down the burn marks and painting or staining them. But I think we should challenge ourselves as modelers and replace the kit supplied parts with scratch built. Lots of modelers prfer to finish their ships with stains ot just a clear finish, and you can't do that with the castings. For my Sultana, I scratch built the windlass from dowel and basswood pieces then gave it a red cherry stain. IMHO I think the result is superior to the casting in the kit. I did the same with the hatches as others here have done. As soon as I figure out this photo web hosting image download mumbo jumbo I'll post some pictures <G>.

Ed.

The latest

enjoy

Donnie 

ps:need to cut down my timbers some. It is easier to remove than to add. 

I have been very frustratingly busy at making the rails at front of ship. I took my ideas off of the actual Sultana at the Sultana site. I am not necessarily 100% happy with it, but no one will know unless someone critiques it here. No one will know except me if one of my freinds sees it- they won't know enough to make any judgements. Overall, I guess I am somewhat happy with my results.

i will post pictures maybe tomorrow. This ship has been a challenge. I am almost finished with the deck and will move on to the masting - rigging this coming week.

Donnie

Alot of work here !

Enjoy !

Donnie 

Well, you bring a big smile to me.  Actually, you know what, I just used the plain ole Model Shipways paint for everything (even though it is totally agreevating !). I just dab it on until it is convered on the Guns.  I used testors (Gold) for the Gun handles and moutning brackets. Why did I do this? Don't know, just lile the "flare" of things I guess. I wanted to the guns to have more of an ornamental look to them. I know that from a reality stand point, they are not even close to being acurate, but I think it adds. Just my thoughts. And hey, didn't someone say that we are allowed to decorate it the way we wish???

The glossy-ness of the ship does not look that glossy - the camera and the lightning just makes it look too glossy. I really like Chucks ship and I am not sure how he got that smooth natural look. I thought I would never get the front railings done and the figurehead and all to look like I want. I am really not too pleased with it, but hey, its ok with me I guess.  I took that idea as close as I could from the Sultana Project website. The Figure head again, just using the white Model shipways paint. I did not gloss the figure head.

About that Model shipways paint, well, I hate it. I don't know what the deal is with that paint, but I simply do NOT like it. period. I must be missing something about how to use it. But, I am always adding a little water to it so that it will paint smooth. It has to be babied alot to get it to do right. I have to use alot of coats over and over and this also takes away from the natural beauty of the ship. I bet I have about 6 coats of white paint on the bottom hull, and I can still see the gray primer that I put on. Again, I must be missing something or Model Shipways needs to come up with a better paint. I ordered some stain from them and I love the stain. I used the stain on the bowsprit mast that is in construction.

Thanks for your compliments - it makes me more interested in the project and keeps me from getting burned out. We started this SGB back in June of 2006 and I am just now almost getting the Hull completed. The timbers need to be cut down I know this. I am getting a new dremel tool with cutting attachments that can do this for me. Other than this, the only tools that I have used on this ship is a couple of files, and xacto knife, and a set of dividers for measuring.

The metal alligator clips have really come in handy.  

Well I like your guns. It is entirely up to the builder to build for accuracy or looks. I know to some people accuracy is everything and I must admit that I would like to be as accurate as possible, but at the end of the day we all have to look at our own models in the display cases.

Yeah, I'm finding it hard to get good consistency from the MS paint too. I put it down to one or more of the following factors: a) I'm not a good painter :), b) It comes with experience, c) I have cheap brushes, d) The paint isn't good. Like you I have about 6 coats on some of my parts.

I've heard that the paint that Caldercraft recommends is excellent quality. My next build is probably going to be a Caldercraft (either the William or the Pickle). By the way, do you know that Jotika are publishing Caldercraft manuals, one every Friday, as PDF's? Their manuals are far superior to MS ones.

On a recommendation from Tim over at MSW, I used BIN primer (shelac based) on metal parts and he's right: It definitely sticks to the metal much better than the MS primer. Great stuff. I bought it at Lowes, a whole quart for $11. That should last me for ever.

Deck furniture is almost done! Expect photos in a day or two. I am really looking forward to moving onto the bow and rails and to be able to stick to just black for a while. :)

Happy Holidays! 

Here's a couple of photos showing the bits of my pump and the final results. I'm certainly not a master craftsman as you can see, but not bad for my first attempt.

Fippy,

Happy holidays first of all.  Your pumps arent half bad considering they are a first attempt.  They are a heck of a lot better than the cast ones supplied.  It is a smart move that you are scratch building most of the parts from the start.  Even if you are not 100% satisfied you will advance much quicker if you dont use the castings supplied.  I just finished the pumps for my Mayflower and mentioned how it is difficult to get practice making such fittings.  If you think about it, with a ship needing only a pair of them you dont have the opportunity to practice frequently.   Depending on the model you are working on you may only build a few pumps per year.  I believe I might have made a dozen or so log pumps over the last 10 years.  Hardly enough to experiment with the many techniques and methods for making them.

 Great job so far on your model.

 Chuck

Fippy,

it looks like everything is going fine to me. I am waiting until you post your deck photos.

Donnie 

Thanks for your kind comments guys.

So, here are photos of the completed deck furniture: In one of the photos you can see the new toy I got for Christmas, a Dremel variable speed tool!

WOW !

Fippy - that is great ! You really have put alot of work in your ship. It is spectacular. I like your binnacle. I was too lazy to do anything to mine, but paint the cast one that I had (hehe) Ohwell, I want to congratulate you on your fine ship. It is really going to make a fine vessel when you are done. I am sure that you are proud of your accomplishments so far.

I have started on constructing my Mast. I cheated (again). I needed to "taper" my mast - so I used a small drill press that I have. I mounted my dowel in the press and turn on the drill press. With a piece of sandpaper, all I did was run the sand paper up and down the dowel until I achived my taper. It took about 5 minuites or so to do this to the level of satisfaction of my liking. Oh well to each there own ( I can here it now). I am sure that Mr. Tilley will have a fit if he knew that I did this. But hey - got my mast done !  I also used a very small disk sander to make the upper head end of the mast. The only thing I did by hand was that at the lower end of the mast that inserts into the ships deck, I used a file to file off that Octogon shaped area.

When I get one mast done I shall submit the photo on that one too.

Donnie 

Well,

it really has been quiet in the SGB. I had some time to write so I have some thoughts. You know, it has taken alot longer to build this ship than I thought. However, I guess it is due to my wanting it to look somewhat decent.

I subscribe to a magazine Seaways Publishing. My latest Magazine that came had an article, well actually it was Seaways interviewing the owner of Model Expo.  He said that one of the key ingredients in building a first class ship to be proud of is "patience".

I recon since he is the owner and has the most experience in this, I guess he would have to be right.  The next key ingredient that he said that will build out a first class ship is "exceptional plans" to work with and then the materials.

At any rate, I guess I don't feel so bad that this Group Build started back in June. I feel that this group build got lost somehow. I see other group builds flourishing and taking root with alot of attention and fervor.  Sometimes, I feel discouraged becuase there are only a couple that are really only building at this point and it seems that Fippy and I are the only ones hanging in there.

Oh well, I should present a better positive attitude, but hey, I remember that we started out with several people (about 5 people) I guess that was really on fire about this.

Was it me that discouraged? Was it a lack of enthusiasm on my part that caused it to die? Was it the ship too hard? Was it nobody liked dealing with wood?  Was it taking too long to build? Nobody really interested in this ship?

I don't know but for some reason, it seems that this Group build has died and passed ! I see other group builds like the HMS Victory and other USS ships that seem to have a "timeless" end to them and keep on going.

I will continue to post my work -

I am almost finished with installing the Mast and need to get images of those up soon. I am hoping that I will get the entire ship finished by mid February. I want to encourage Fippy to continue as he and I are the only ones left building.

Thanks for those that have tuned in at least.

Donnie D.