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Knights of the Sky WWI GB The End

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  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorado
Posted by StephenLawson on Friday, November 23, 2007 2:24 PM

I'll have a couple of images in a few days.  I could close it up tonight but I want to do some interior shots.  Seriously this is a fun kit.   (Bit of an oximoron eh?)  Not me the comment.  Hah!  

I think this is a great candidate for a cut away and some serious bracing girder detail.  Be careful though, once the cockpit is done the rest of the kit almost falls together.  The only thing I need to check is the landing gear strut locations just to make sure their right.  More on that later.  I probably spent more time on the camouflage than the actual build.  Wow! The only sanding I have done was to prep some edges for adhesive and clear off a remnant of sprue stubs.  

 

Stachel...unconfirmed by Armee means unconfirmed!!!!

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Lubbock, TX
Posted by MrDrummy on Friday, November 23, 2007 8:38 PM

Hey Stephen--

As far as Albatros DIII's go, was the radiator on the top of the wing painted the same color as the top wing?  Getting to the painting point tonight!

Thanks, man!

-Justin
On the Bench: 1:48 Dragon Dr. 1 1:48 Trumpeter MiG-15 Fagot B Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Friday, November 23, 2007 9:48 PM

I have been making progress on my Siemens Schukert D.III.  The fuselage is closed up, thankfully covering up most of my interior.  I've not yet reached a point where my PE interior is believable as wood.  Maybe later.  However, I realized a few days ago that this is my "practice build".  I signed up to do a Hansa Brandenburg Star Strutter and a DFW 28.  So they will be next.

I got my prop done tonight, it came out pretty nice thanks to all the tips in this GB.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorado
Posted by StephenLawson on Friday, November 23, 2007 9:51 PM

 MrDrummy wrote:
Hey Stephen-- As far as Albatros DIII types go, was the radiator on the top of the wing painted the same color as the top wing?  Getting to the painting point tonight! Thanks, man!

Greetings MrDrummy;

Radiators were usually brass brased components that were double dipped in solder.  The whole affair was a dull flat silver colour and never painted.  Some aircraft had shutters and these were usually basic metal components and were either bare metal or painted with a protective coat.  Black or gray was usual.  In this scale keeping them similar to the radiator is a good  compromise.  Piping as usually bare brass hence my reason for using brass rod for these things.

 

Stachel...unconfirmed by Armee means unconfirmed!!!!

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: South Central Wisconsin
Posted by Daywalker on Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:50 AM

John- Outstanding job on that prop!  You guys never cease to amaze with your talents.  One of these tries, I'm gonna get my prop to look like wood!

Stephen- Looking forward to seeing those pics! Thumbs Up [tup]

abs1124- Sign - Welcome [#welcome] to our GB!  Feel free to display the GB badge on page one, and post WIP pics! Thumbs Up [tup]

Frank 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:05 AM

I need some help on the colors for the D.III I'm working on, it's an early Eduard kit and the instructions are not like the newer kits.  The scheme I want to do is supposed to be blue, but there is no hint as to light or dark or medium at all.  Also, I don't know what color to do the fabric on the wheels.  It may be lozenge fabric, upper I guess, but I don't have any references for it.  Anyone care to take a guess?  I'd rather someone else be wrong.Smile [:)]  Maybe I should ask for a vote.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Southern California
Posted by ModelNerd on Sunday, November 25, 2007 11:46 AM
 jeaton01 wrote:

...I got my prop done tonight, it came out pretty nice thanks to all the tips in this GB.

Nice prop indeed, John. Would you care to share your technique? If I were a guessing man, and judging by the consistency of your lamination lines, I would guess you masked thin tape strips over the light colored prop, then squirted the dark brown. Was I right?

- Mark

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:14 PM

That's what I did, Mark.  The first coat was Model Master Wood.  Then I cut strips of Tamiya tape in the right widths to get the number of laminations I needed and put it on, trying to keep the lines straight when viewed from the plane of the propeller.  Then I more or less dry brushed Model Master Leather over that.  Followed by a wet coat of Tamiya Clear Orange the next day.  

I looked around here, and Steven's site, and my books and the net trying to figure out if the back of the prop would be black or laminated, and didn't find any painted black, so I'm left wondering when the use of black on the back of props came into use.  I never flew behind a wood prop that wasn't painted black but tht's pretty recent history compared to what we're building here.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Southern California
Posted by ModelNerd on Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:25 PM

John, thanx for the info.

Now, would anyone happen to have a rigging diagram for a Fokker D.VII that they would care to share with the Ol' Nerd? Monogram's weak attempt at a diagram is about as clear as swamp water. Mucho thanks in advance-

- Mark

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Smithers, BC, Canada
Posted by ruddratt on Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:20 PM

Mark, I grabbed these from the Eduard site. They are from the instruction sheet of their D.VII kit. Hope it helps. Looking forward to seeing somemore pics, too. Sounds like you're making excellent progress! Thumbs Up [tup]

Mike

 "We have our own ammunition. It's filled with paint. When we fire it, it makes pretty pictures....scares the hell outta people."

 

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorado
Posted by StephenLawson on Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:23 PM

 jeaton01 wrote:
". . .I looked around here, and Stephen's site, and my books and the net trying to figure out if the back of the prop would be black or laminated, and didn't find any painted black, so I'm left wondering when the use of black on the back of props came into use.  I never flew behind a wood prop that wasn't painted black but tht's pretty recent history compared to what we're building here.

Hey John Look at your propeller from the tip end to the base.  The lamnations will pass in a straight line from front to rear. I realize you are working with a hughe spinner and the prop blades simply attach to it.  But with them attached you can get the idea.  Review the  wood lamination  instructions I posted here and you will get the idea. 

Finally the colour you may want to use for your build is a dark blue was thinly applied. I have seen two images of this machine  (Probably Ltn. Veltjens reserve machine.  His Fokker D.VII had a winged arrow.) Some early SSW D.III types were sent to JG.II (Jasta 12, 13, 15 & 19) for front line evals. Here is what I have on it.

SSW D.III no serial noted, insignia a white "V" may have belonged at one time to Ltn. Seppl Veltjens (NOT Vallendor) of Jasta 15/ J.G.II. as a reserve aircraft. The headrest identifies it as a machine from the first series of 20; the balanced ailerons show this photo was taken after it was returned to the factory to be upgraded with a new engine, wings and other modifications. These images may have been taken at Jasta 15 or another unit that it was later assigned to.

The wheel covers were usually done in "5 colour lozenge", like the wings.  Top wing angled lozenge layout.  Lower wing span wise lay out.

 

Stachel...unconfirmed by Armee means unconfirmed!!!!

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorado
Posted by StephenLawson on Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:33 PM
One further note.  Due to the kind efforts of forum member John Eaton my lozenge 101 thread is available in a word  or PDF format.  ANY GB participant can e-mail me through my website and I will send a FREE copy to you. Simply put "Loz101" in the subject box. 

 

Stachel...unconfirmed by Armee means unconfirmed!!!!

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Southern California
Posted by ModelNerd on Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:45 PM

Thanks for that, Mike!

Well, progress IS being made, albeit slow! Since I can't close up the fuselage until I make and install the cockpit lozenge decals, that's about where I'm at now. But, before I close up the fuselage, I want to drill my rigging holes. Oh, it's all connected, not unlike a house of cards! Hope to have more pics soon-

- Mark

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Monday, November 26, 2007 12:18 AM

Thanks for the color information, Stephen.  I did do both front and back of the blades on my propeller with the laminated effect.  I'm not sure it will pass the test you desribed, but I am familiar with how the wood was aligned during the laminating process.  It was enough for my shaky fingers to get all those strips of tape on straight enough, so I didn't try for getting them as they should be with respect to the front and back of the blades.   But then, maybe I lucked out, it is a 50-50 chance since both sides have the same number of laminations.

As for my comments on the black, I was just wondering when that practice might have started.  I would think anything that had a landing light and flew at night might have been a candidate.  That is pretty limited in WW I, and the Gotha as a pusher wouldn't have needed it.  Maybe the 1 1/2 strutter dirigible chasers.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorado
Posted by StephenLawson on Monday, November 26, 2007 3:54 AM

 jeaton01 wrote:
". . .As for my comments on the black, I was just wondering when that practice might have started.  I would think anything that had a landing light and flew at night might have been a candidate.  That is pretty limited in WW I, and the Gotha as a pusher wouldn't have needed it.  Maybe the 1 1/2 strutter dirigible chasers."

For me it "wood" (sorry couldn't resist) make sense to do it on all metal propellers.  The only thing night patrol pilots were really concerned about in open cockpits was loosing their night vision. When they tripped the triggers they simply closed their eyes.  BUT!  Having just finished a research project and published an article on the first night interceptor unit in the American Air Service may qualify me to say this. . .  The Gnome powered Camels of the 185th Aero sqdn did seem to have a panel or plate that flipped up to keep the reflection from the muzzle blasts / flash suppressors from bouncing back from the rear face of the prop into the pilots eyes. Time cira Oct. - Nov. 1918.  Painting the backs of the prop blades black would probably have come between the wars.

See Over the Front Vol.21 #3 2006 "185th Aero - A shadow in the moonlight"

http://www.overthefront.com

Aviation historian Greg VanWyngarden wrote, ". . .Leading off this issue is a spectacular article on the 185th Aero Squadron by our own Stephen T. Lawson. Stephen has uncovered all kinds of fascinating info and personal accounts relating to the history of this very little-known nightfighting squadron. USAS expert Alan Toelle also contributed editorial and photographic assistance, and you'll see rare photos of SPADs, Camels and even a DH 4 which displayed the unit's black bat on an orange moon emblem. Also two rare photos of that bizarre 35mm single-shot cannon affixed to the hub of a Gnome-engined Camel. This is great stuff! Adding to the value of the issue are several absolutely stunning full-color profiles of SPAD XIIIs, a Camel and DH 4 in Squadron markings (plus a Jasta 13 Fokker D.VII) by those magicians Juanita Franzi, Mark Miller and Alan Toelle. You won't find more accurate profiles anywhere. . ."

 

Stachel...unconfirmed by Armee means unconfirmed!!!!

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Monday, November 26, 2007 1:17 PM

Steven:

Anything reflective is a problem for night vision, and bothers in some instances in the daytime.  A wood prop that has a poor black finish will become a big bright disk as soon as you turn on the landing light, or land over a car's headlights that are lighting up the runway you intend to land on in the low tech method of airport lighting.  It can be exciting! 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: South Central Wisconsin
Posted by Daywalker on Monday, November 26, 2007 3:01 PM

Robert,

I updated your entry, look forward to seeing the pics! Thumbs Up [tup]

Frank 

 

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Monday, November 26, 2007 8:02 PM
Just checking in with you guys once again. With everything here going on, and the holidays coming up, i STILL haven't begun my build here yet.Disapprove [V] I'm hoping after things settle down with the holidays and all, i'll get more time back on the bench. But i wonder if i might be the only one who is still in the starting chute...

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorado
Posted by StephenLawson on Monday, November 26, 2007 11:22 PM

 abs1124 wrote:
". . .Here is . . . the 1/48 Eduard Fokker D.VIII /E.V, kit #8003.  Looks like a nice kit. Not up to their current standards, but nothing I cannot fix (lots of flash... see second photo). This kit is probably 50% photo etch (the entire interior and most exterior details), and it seems to have all of the noteworthy details, so this will be mainly an OOB build."

It does turn out nicely with some elbow grease and patience.  But OOB getting the plastic kit engine right will be a bear.  Even the white metal version is highly generic but easier to detail.

One note of correction here on the decals.  "C" is mislabeled. Oblt. Eric Loewenhardt commander of Jasta 10, went to the Jasta 6 airfield and borrowed a Fokker E.V to test fly and familiarize himself with the type.  It was not assigned to him.

Best Regards

Stephen

 

 

 

Stachel...unconfirmed by Armee means unconfirmed!!!!

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Vernon, BC, Canada
Posted by razordws on Monday, November 26, 2007 11:34 PM

 DesertRat wrote:
But i wonder if i might be the only one who is still in the starting chute...

Nope, I haven't started mine yet either Rodger and likely won't until the new year - so the race is on, who'll start last!!Tongue [:P]

Dave

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:47 AM
 razordws wrote:

 DesertRat wrote:
But i wonder if i might be the only one who is still in the starting chute...

Nope, I haven't started mine yet either Rodger and likely won't until the new year - so the race is on, who'll start last!!Tongue [:P]

Now there's a new one!

A race to see who finishes last. Interesting....Whistling [:-^]

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: The Great State of Wyoming
Posted by wyoroy on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:23 AM
 DesertRat wrote:
 razordws wrote:

 DesertRat wrote:
But i wonder if i might be the only one who is still in the starting chute...

Nope, I haven't started mine yet either Rodger and likely won't until the new year - so the race is on, who'll start last!!Tongue [:P]

Now there's a new one!

A race to see who finishes last. Interesting....Whistling [:-^]

Sign - Ditto [#ditto] and Sign - Ditto [#ditto]

Roy

Roy (Capt. Wyoroy FAAGB/USNFAWGB)

John 3:16

  • Member since
    November 2007
  • From: Columbus, OH
Posted by chef_ben on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:29 AM

I think I'll win the race to finish last.....you've never met my wife...."I NEED you to do this, I NEED you to do that".  What she needs to do sometimes is sit there, look pretty and quit riding my behind!!!

I really do love her but sometimes I just need me and paintbrush time!

On the workbench: 1/48 Spitfire Mark II (Revell) - rethinking this situation! 1/48 Eduard Pfalz D.IIIa - 2%
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: South Central Wisconsin
Posted by Daywalker on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:56 AM
Wow, that looks like a LOT of work Robert!  Is that the older version of their DVIII?  The shots of the sprues from Stephen Lawson over at Aero Scale look really nice.  You sure do have your work cut out for you, Robert!

Frank 

 

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Lubbock, TX
Posted by MrDrummy on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:22 PM

Hey abs-

Can I borrow some of that flash so that I can build another model!? 

Gosh!!  That's a lot of work right there!!

-Justin
On the Bench: 1:48 Dragon Dr. 1 1:48 Trumpeter MiG-15 Fagot B Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorado
Posted by StephenLawson on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:05 AM

 MrDrummy wrote:
"Hey abs-. . . Gosh!!  That's a lot of work right there!!"

 MrDrummy surely you know that is what Dremels are for!

 

Stachel...unconfirmed by Armee means unconfirmed!!!!

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:15 AM
 chef_ben wrote:

I think I'll win the race to finish last.....you've never met my wife...."I NEED you to do this, I NEED you to do that".  What she needs to do sometimes is sit there, look pretty and quit riding my behind!!!

I really do love her but sometimes I just need me and paintbrush time!

Good point. I'm no longer married, so i think it's safe to say that you might have the edge in this case. Although if you really need a little time on the bench, send her my way! I'm a really horrible cook and i still haven't taken out the trash, i need to pay the bills and i need to sweep the garage, etc.Laugh [(-D]

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    November 2007
  • From: Columbus, OH
Posted by chef_ben on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 8:02 AM
Only if you pay the shipping!! Big Smile [:D]
On the workbench: 1/48 Spitfire Mark II (Revell) - rethinking this situation! 1/48 Eduard Pfalz D.IIIa - 2%
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorado
Posted by StephenLawson on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:05 PM

Ok here is my secret.  I have scale Gnomes working in my basement. Here is a typical day at the far end of my work bench.  Note at right two unfinished props cut identical but far right is the back or obverse side.  The one on the nearer right is the front.

 

Stachel...unconfirmed by Armee means unconfirmed!!!!

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: South Central Wisconsin
Posted by Daywalker on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 8:40 PM
Now THAT is a cool photo Stephen!  Thanks for sharing. Thumbs Up [tup]

Frank 

 

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