War in the Desert - African campaign GB - 12/9/07 to 5/13/08

My bad on that. I was using those as examples for the paint. Not necessarily the actual aircraft model. Sorry about that

Of course, there were Es in Africa (as we can see on pictures) I misunderstood becouse of the pictures of Fs when you vere discussing build of E....

P.S.Here is that E-7 from Africa posted earlier by rjkplasticmod...

Thanks, guys! I do appreciate the insight! Seems the more i learn, the less i know. At this rate, pretty soon i wont know nothing. I really do need to get some better research materials....

   At least i have a few more things to consider here. But it looks like i'll be abandoning the higher demarkation line, it seems. And with 3 decal options to go with, i'm gonna go with (what looks like to me) one with the JG-27 markings. Not familiar at all with German aircraft, so pardon my ignorance, guys! Thanks!

arki30 wrote:

I can't recall ever seeing the straight Sand/Light Blue scheme on an E-4/7.

I was with you all the way Arki, I hadn't ever seen an E-7 in that scheme either.  It just goes sho never say never when it comes to my supposed knowledge of WWII.

Btw, Rick that's a cool looking scheme for the E-7, I might have to do one of those one day.

Cheers

Roger, I don't believe there we any Bf-109E-3's deployed in Africa.  There were a handful of Bf-109E-4's used that were transferred from the Russian front & served for a very short time with JG-27.  Some of these were repainted in the RLM 79 upper surfaces with the white fuselage band but the lower surfaces were left in RLM 65 or 76 & not repainted in RLM 78 .  None that I know of were painted with the high demarcation line.  Many were not repainted at all or had some non-standard camo applied.  Here's one such that I did a few years back...

Most of the E's used were Bf-109E-7 Trop's & many of these were painted in the Africa standard scheme of RLM 79/78.  Some had the high demarcation line, but all also had the RLM 80 large green mottle.

Regards,  Rick

Here are a few more solid desert schemes, for Bf109E-4 Trop, two Bf109E4/B and one Bf109E7/B.  These profiles are from "Messerschmitt Me 109 Volume 1 From 1936 to 1943" by Anis Elbied and Andre Jouineau, from Histoire & Collections

In Osprey's book BF109 Aces of North Africa and the Mediterranean there is only one colour plate of an Emil in tan scheme.  It states only a few of the E-series were finished this way except for the Jabos of SKG 210.

Bf 109 E-7/Trop. of Oblt.Ludwig Franzisket, Gruppen-Adjutant I./JG27, Libya 1941.

 Jack

It does.  If you do the paint scheme you'd like on an E-4/7, it would basically be a what-if scheme. 

Or at least I'm pretty sure it would be.  I can't recall ever seeing the straight Sand/Light Blue scheme on an E-4/7.

DesertRat wrote:

darson wrote: I'm not sure I'm following Roger, are you talking about the demarcation line between upper and lower camo?  If you are doing a Bf109E-4/7 Trop with the blotchy green RLM 78/79/80 camo, check out this pic, it gives a good (color) shot of the scheme and demarcation line. http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/german-luftwaffe/abg Cheers Well not really like that. I haven't even attempted the mottle yet. But i did have something a little different in mind- If you remember maybe a month or two back, Eric (Manstein) posted a 109 in the desert beige. I thought it looked really good, myself. But in the pages of references he posted (and a little more research online) i had seen similiar aircraft where the demarkation line is about mid fuselage. Kinda made me think of the navy 3 tone scheme, but with different colors. Basically, i'm trying to decide if i'm going to do this: or this:

rjkplasticmod wrote:

Roger, personally I prefer the high demarcation with the RLM76 on the sides.  Seems to give a little more visual interest to the model.  But both are correct, depending on the aircraft being modeled. Regards,  Rick

Roger, personally I prefer the high demarcation with the RLM76 on the sides.  Seems to give a little more visual interest to the model.  But both are correct, depending on the aircraft being modeled.

Regards,  Rick

darson wrote:

I'm not sure I'm following Roger, are you talking about the demarcation line between upper and lower camo?  If you are doing a Bf109E-4/7 Trop with the blotchy green RLM 78/79/80 camo, check out this pic, it gives a good (color) shot of the scheme and demarcation line. http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/german-luftwaffe/abg Cheers

Well not really like that. I haven't even attempted the mottle yet. But i did have something a little different in mind-

If you remember maybe a month or two back, Eric (Manstein) posted a 109 in the desert beige. I thought it looked really good, myself. But in the pages of references he posted (and a little more research online) i had seen similiar aircraft where the demarkation line is about mid fuselage. Kinda made me think of the navy 3 tone scheme, but with different colors.

Basically, i'm trying to decide if i'm going to do this:

or this:

I just check out a couple of the online stores for the release date of the Tamiya Fieseler Fi.156C Storch and was shocked to see pre-order prices of between $USD45 & $USD48 with a rec retail price of $USD60

I'll see what the real prices are like once the kit is released, but I'm not that desperate for a Storch that I will pay that sort of dough for it

jgeratic1 wrote:

dupes wrote: Heh...chomping at the bit! Still trying to figure out what I could build for the French and Polish badges. Not much in the stash that fits the bill, know what I mean?  Hi dupes... Well, I can open the door for you regarding the French and Poles in Africa, but it would be up to you to do further research. France had both Vichy and Free French forces.   The only thing I know about the Vichy is they put up very little resistance during the landings of Operation Torch - but not so with the air force which was 'hotly' involved.  I have read that the army was deprived of tanks and was very short of motorised transport, even their cavalry units.  In Morocco, Algeria and to a small extent Tunisia, there could be found fighters, recconaissance, and bomber groups as well as some naval aircraft.   The Free French had a couple well known units.  Famous for its stubborn defence near Tobruk was a brigade size unit from the 1st Free French Division.  The other was the Free French Fighting Column or 'L' Force under the comand of General Leclerc.  It was a small mixed force of armoured cars, tanks, infantry, anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns.  Regarding aircraft, I came across a unit named 'Alsace' which was equipped with Hurricanes and was actively involved over the desert in North Africa. For the Poles, other than the Spitfire that was mentioned, there is the Carpathian Brigade.  The men that made up this group had fled to the Middle East and the British provided them clothing, equipment, and weapons.  Try this link: http://www.kki.pl/piojar/brygad/brygad/tobruk/tobruk_e.html Jack

As far as I know Polish Government in London paid for the equipment supplied to Polish Army on the West.  

I'm not sure I'm following Roger, are you talking about the demarcation line between upper and lower camo?  If you are doing a Bf109E-4/7 Trop with the blotchy green RLM 78/79/80 camo, check out this pic, it gives a good (color) shot of the scheme and demarcation line.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/german-luftwaffe/abg

Cheers

Like everyone else here, i too am patiently awaiting the start. I still need to go and start picking up needed supplies and paints and such. Also, i've got a good idea how this will turn out. Strangely enough, i'm still debating exactly where the demarkation line is going to be. After looking at different samples, not sure how it will go yet. But i'll figure it out!

Just 2 more weeks....

dupes wrote:

Heh...chomping at the bit! Still trying to figure out what I could build for the French and Polish badges. Not much in the stash that fits the bill, know what I mean?

Hi dupes...

Well, I can open the door for you regarding the French and Poles in Africa, but it would be up to you to do further research.

France had both Vichy and Free French forces.   The only thing I know about the Vichy is they put up very little resistance during the landings of Operation Torch - but not so with the air force which was 'hotly' involved.  I have read that the army was deprived of tanks and was very short of motorised transport, even their cavalry units.  In Morocco, Algeria and to a small extent Tunisia, there could be found fighters, recconaissance, and bomber groups as well as some naval aircraft.  

The Free French had a couple well known units.  Famous for its stubborn defence near Tobruk was a brigade size unit from the 1st Free French Division.  The other was the Free French Fighting Column or 'L' Force under the comand of General Leclerc.  It was a small mixed force of armoured cars, tanks, infantry, anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns.  Regarding aircraft, I came across a unit named 'Alsace' which was equipped with Hurricanes and was actively involved over the desert in North Africa.

For the Poles, other than the Spitfire that was mentioned, there is the Carpathian Brigade.  The men that made up this group had fled to the Middle East and the British provided them clothing, equipment, and weapons.  Try this link:

http://www.kki.pl/piojar/brygad/brygad/tobruk/tobruk_e.html

Jack

darson wrote:

My kit has arrived, the paint is ready and I've also picked up the Tamiya 1/48 stowage set so I can add some jerry cans and such to a stowage rack I'll build on the back of the Pz III.  No I just have to sit back and wait. Petr good to see you in the build, I'm really looking forward to seeing the half track come together.  I've been following the progress of your superb T-62 on the Modern Armor GB Cheers

Thanks for warm welcome in this GB guys! I hope I will not dissapiont you.... BTW I have found some 10 pictures of that particular Sdkfz 250/3 GREIF, great inspiration to me! Another interesting thing is, how the writing on both sides changed its look during 1941-42....the marking version in the box is dated for cca 20th June 1942 for the battle of Tobruk....My plans are to place it into dio with abandoned Crusaider Mk.II in the outskirts of Tobruk (1:48 from Tamiya)

Petr V. wrote:

Very interesting GB with great wide range of airplanes and armor listed so far.... I would like to take part with Sdkfz 250/3 GREIF, personal command vehicle of General Rommel...It is 1:48 great Tamiya kit

That one is definitely on my Christmas list to Santa .  Will watch your build with great interest.

Regards,  Rick

Very interesting GB with great wide range of airplanes and armor listed so far....

I would like to take part with Sdkfz 250/3 GREIF, personal command vehicle of General Rommel...It is 1:48 great Tamiya kit

Have my kit, also. This tristar kit looks like it will be a lot of fun to build, looking forward to it.

May want to try an aircraft for this, any suggestions on a nice kit? Thanks guys!

For aircrafts you can get Spitfire Mk IXc flown by Polish Fighter Group attached to 145 RAF Sqdrn. Their aircrafts had markings ZX-1 to ZX-6 (Techmod decals)

For the "Polish wheels" equipment probobly Mike will be able to help you. I will see what I can find. 

Heh...chomping at the bit!

Still trying to figure out what I could build for the French and Polish badges. Not much in the stash that fits the bill, know what I mean?