War in the Desert - African campaign GB - 12/9/07 to 5/13/08

Sure has been quiet here lately.

Anyways, only two weeks till kick-off .   Have my kit & pretty much settled on paints.  Just need to find a clear spot on the Bench & I'm good to go.

How's the rest of you guys doing ?

Regards,  Rick

Thanks Darren, I'm sure your's will.

Regards,  Rick

Cool looking build Rick .  It's the same kit that I'm doing for the GB and I hope mine turns out as nice as yours.

Cheers

Thanks Scott.

Regards,  Rick

jgeratic1 wrote:

Hey Rick, I think that PzIII looks great!!!  The colour looks fine to me.   What kit is it?

Thanks .  It's the Tamiya 1/48 PZIII AusfL kit built OOB.

Regards,  Rick

Hey Rick, I think that PzIII looks great!!!  The colour looks fine to me.   What kit is it?

Thanks Jack.  All of the colors look a little dark on my monitor set up, but it does give an idea of the differences between Paint suppliers.

Here's one I did earlier this year in Tamiya Desert Yellow acrylic.  It's been weathered to reflect sun exposure & dust.

Is it in the ballpark or outta left field?

Regards,  Rick

Hi everyone ... as promised here is the colour sample I wanted to make to help out with DAK vehicles, particularly those that asked about Tunisia.  As Rick stated already, the images will tend to vary from my screen to yours, so this can only be taken as an approximation.  I've also presented the colours over panzer grey to see how it changes - mind you my airbrushing was on the heavy handed side.
Firstly, RAL 8020 is the most likely colour for Tunisia.  From what I can see, TAMIYA desert yellow is too dark and would be more appropriate for use as RAL 8000, particularly when the base is panzer grey.  The AGAMA product tends to look a shade of orange, but over the grey base is more acceptable and could be used for RAL 8020.  
I included two samples of RAL 8000 just to see if there was variation between the ModelMaster and WhiteEnsign products.  The latter appears darker, most likely because of it's high gloss finish.

Hope this was of some help.

Jack

In case it helps anyone, here is some web sites with paint color/match info and tools (and my apologies if you all have these already bookmarked!):

RLM color standards - http://www.paintassistant.com/rlm.html

HUMBROL ENAMEL CROSS REFERENCE - http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/reference/humbrol.htm

Tamiya Paint Charts - http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=72

Urban's Colour Reference Charts- http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_testors_map.htm

IPMS Stockholm Color Charts - http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/helpdesk.asp#color_charts

Wow, these greman desert colours really stirring up some confusion.

Darren - I looked at that link you posted and have to agree with others that Tamiya's buff is not anywhere near a good representation of Braun RAL 8020.  At the top of that page the author has stated  the guide was for 1/72 scale vehicles - perhaps that was the reasoning?  Even then, it suggests adding white for scale effect, which makes buff even less desirable. Not familiar with the Gunze H79, but give it a try.

dupes - don't know how you missed it, or maybe I didn't communicate it well enough, but there is indeed several paint manufactures out there that have specifically created products for DAK vehicles.  The bottles are labelled with either or both the RAL number and the german spelling of the colour.  Those companies again are: Testors(ModelMaster), White Ensign Models, Life Color Paints, Xtracolor, Xtracrylix, and Agama.

JMart - thanks for posting that list.  Afrika Braun (brown) '42 - MM 2102 ...this is also known as RAL 8020, the one most likely for Tunisia.

Hermesminiatures - I can appreciate what you have added and the sound reasoning with the war photo.  Only thing is there's no mention of the date of said picture.  If the photo was taken before  March 1942 , then it cannot be RAL 8020 since this colour was introduced after that date. Was there a caption with that photo?

Finally, I agree that the Tamiya swatch I posted is very light.  In fact it looks more like their flesh colour, but this was the only one I found on the net using a quick search.  The two swatches were posted just to illustrate there is a difference between the two. 

Jack 

Jim no probs, it was worth a try and that site is pretty good when it comes to finding kit instructions.

Thanks Jim, Jack, Jonathon & Marc for all your info on paint colors I really appreciate it.  Based on the color chip that Jonathon posted both Tamiya Buff and Gunze Sandy Yellow are both very close matches if a little on the light side for RAL 8020.  However as Rick said, allowing for sun bleaching and given that the color will darken a tad with weathering, I've gone for Gunze H-79 Sandy Yellow.

Cheers

Thanks JMart.  I'll check those out next trip to the LHS.

Regards,  Rick

JMart wrote:

dupes wrote: I'm kind of surprised that no paint company actually makes a match for "afrika yellow"?  Actually, I have a box of "WW2 German Armor" enamels (sold as a kit), including the "afrika yellow"... once I get home, I will look up the exact name and numbers....

Here is the info I wrote down some time ago... MM Enamels for N Africa campaign German armor:

Panzer Dunkelgelb (Dark yellow) - MM 2095

For camo/shadowing:

Afrika Dunkelgrau (dark gray) MM2103 (until late 1942)

Afrika Khaki broun (khaki brown) 41 - MM 2098

Afrika Braun (brown) '42 - MM 2102

Afrika Grunbraun (green-brown) '41  MM2099

Note: this info is from the vendor, not primary sources

rjkplasticmod wrote:

It's a Smart Kit.  I'm only allowed to build Dummie kits . Regards,  Rick

  There's a wise guy in every group Build isn't there?!?!

It's a Smart Kit.  I'm only allowed to build Dummie kits .

Regards,  Rick

If anybody's interested - Dragon is releasing a Panzer III Ausf. N, should be out by December 9th

dupes wrote:

I'm kind of surprised that no paint company actually makes a match for "afrika yellow"?

Actually, I have a box of "WW2 German Armor" enamels (sold as a kit), including the "afrika yellow"... once I get home, I will look up the exact name and numbers....

darson wrote:

Jim the instructions for the Tamiya Panzer IV Ausf D can be found at http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10000210

Unfortunately, I had already checked that web site, they only have the Japanese version of instructions.... I will try and build by "eye" and use an otherT amiya "oldie" P IV instructions for help.... thanks anyways :)

I think the color swatch jgeratic1 posted is a bit too dark. I've seen RAL 8020 confused quite often with RAL 7008-f Afrika Khakibraun. The true Afrikabraun has no olive shade, it's kind of a pinkish tan. Here is a more accurate representation of RAL 8020 Afrikabraun:

Also, have a look at the color on this tank - by various means of comparison (the sky, sand, flesh color, etc.) it has been determined to be fairly correct in shade:

I've found MM enamels to be the most accurate for RAL 8020 (the Tamiya color is a little off but fairly close) MM 2012 RAL 8020 is a good starting point. MM 2099 RAL 8000 Afrika Gunbraun and MM 2103 RAL 7027 Afrika Dunkelgrau are useful for post shading and varying the tone of RAL 8020.

Thanks Jack & Darren.  Judging colors on the internet is tricky due to the digital processing & differences in monitor calibrations.  The Tamiya Desert Yellow that I have is darker than the swatch shown, about half way between that & the RAL swatch.  In any case, I would guess the paint would have rapidly faded in the sun & sand exposure.

Regards,  Rick

Someone recommended Tamiya BUFF? Just glancing at my paint rack - it looks nothing like that color swatch that jgeratic posted above.

I'm kind of surprised that no paint company actually makes a match for "afrika yellow"? 

Thanks Jack! I've done a bit of hunting myself to find a decent match for RAL 8020 in either Gunze or Tamiya acrylic paints and according to the site below they recommend either Tamiya XF-57 Buff of Gunze H79 dark Yellow.

http://www.miniatures.de/int/colour-ral-farben.html

Cheers 

Hi Darren,

Yes, just to clarify, base coat would be panzer grey followed by the appropriate "desert yellow".  Depending how weathered and beaten you want the tank to look, then some of the grey would  show through, like edges and scuffed surfaces made by the crew.

Rick brought up the question of using Tamiya's desert yellow. Well, it is much more accurate than using their dark yellow.  I haven't tried it myself, but do recall other people suggesting it. In an earlier post I introduced a list of paint manufactures - they all attempted to match their colours to paint chips of the RAL series. 

When I get a chance during daylight hours, I'll post a digital shot so Tamiya's desert yellow can be compared to Braun RAL 8020 - the colour specified for use on March 25, 1942 and for the duration of the African campaign.

For now an image search produced these swatches:

Tamiya desert yellow

RAL 8020

Jack

Jim the instructions for the Tamiya Panzer IV Ausf D can be found at

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10000210

Jack thanks for the heads up on the panzer colors.  As I'm doing a Panzer III Ausf.L from the 10th Panzer Reg in Feb 1943 should I should go for a base coat over panzer grey and then add the desert yellow, correct?

Cheers

Ok, I stopped at the LHS this morning & picked up a bottle of Tamiya Desert Yellow acrylic.  I get confused by all the RAL numbers, but would this be more appropriate for Africa Korps, 1943?

Regards,  Rick

Glamdring wrote:

Hermesminiatures wrote: That Revell/Monogram P-38 is one of the reasons I build armor That was the last aircraft kit I built, about 2 years ago. I further compounded the headache by doing the nightfighting version. I learned patience from that beast, and that was about it. I Agree 100%, that is truely a bad kit.

I have THREE Revel P38s I am building at the same time for the P38 & LOckheed GB. And I am a newbie. Been getting my sanding experience for sure. ANd the main reason Im hunting for other GBs to build EASIER Tamiyas or non-Revell stuff..... Can only spend an hour of time (and patience) a week on the P38s....

Can you put me down for the (easier) Tamiya 1:35 M3 Stuart and/or Tamiya 1:48 Bf 1090 E4/7 TROP? I want to do the Tamiya Panzer IV Ausf D to keep it "all german" but I do not have the instructions :(

Will start them probably in Jan, need to finish some stuff and AB before I shut down my spray booth for winter time... Will build OOB, have <10 built kits under my belt....

Cheers, Jim

You are welcome, Rick.  You should note that after reading the articles, the colour you have - Graugrün RAL 7008 (grey-green) - was intended to be used only on one third of the vehicle for camouflage purposes. 

Jack

Thanks for the links Jack.  I had picked up a bottle of ModelMaster enamel, RAL 7008, but it looked a little dark after I compared it to pics & art work.  I suppose it would be OK with dusty weathering.

Regards,  Rick