Red Storm on the Reich GB - Sept. 8, 2008 - May 9, 2009

  Scott count me in with a DML 1/35 JS-2.

Glamdring wrote:

I'd like in.  Can I get a ruling on whether the Maus would qualify?  If not, I'll get back at a later date on what I'll be building.

That's a tough one.  Some sorces say that the 2nd prototype of the Maus saw combat while defending the proving grounds at Kummersdorf, while other sources say it was blown up by its crew at Kummersdorf to prevent it from being captured by the Soviets.  

Does anyone have any information on whether or not the Maus ever saw combat? 

I will do Dragon's T-34/85 w/bedspring armor

thanks for your work in getting it going

Scott-sounds like a great theme.  I'm in but I probably won't get started until late fall.  I'll let you know what I'm building then.

Thanks

espins1 wrote:

Glamdring wrote: I'd like in.  Can I get a ruling on whether the Maus would qualify?  If not, I'll get back at a later date on what I'll be building. That's a tough one.  Some sorces say that the 2nd prototype of the Maus saw combat while defending the proving grounds at Kummersdorf, while other sources say it was blown up by its crew at Kummersdorf to prevent it from being captured by the Soviets.   Does anyone have any information on whether or not the Maus ever saw combat?

   Scott  I read that one Maus was set up in a static defensive position and later destroyed by it's crew dont know if it actualy ever fired any round's though. 

It's been my understanding the the one operational Maus was ordered to Berlin but broke down along the way, leading to it being "blowed up" by it's crew.  I think the common consensus is that it never fired a shot in battle.

That's why I'm questioning, it was ordered to the battle but broke down enroute.  I have no problem if it would be disallowed, it'll just give me an excuse to go buy another model. 

Please put me down for a Italeri 1:72 IS-2.

With the GB period nice and long I will definitely be able to add to that entry once I decide which subject to nominate.

Cheers

Mike 

panzerguy wrote:

espins1 wrote:  Glamdring wrote: I'd like in.  Can I get a ruling on whether the Maus would qualify?  If not, I'll get back at a later date on what I'll be building. That's a tough one.  Some sorces say that the 2nd prototype of the Maus saw combat while defending the proving grounds at Kummersdorf, while other sources say it was blown up by its crew at Kummersdorf to prevent it from being captured by the Soviets.   Does anyone have any information on whether or not the Maus ever saw combat?     Scott  I read that one Maus was set up in a static defensive position and later destroyed by it's crew dont know if it actualy ever fired any round's though.

Glamdring wrote:

It's been my understanding the the one operational Maus was ordered to Berlin but broke down along the way, leading to it being "blowed up" by it's crew.  I think the common consensus is that it never fired a shot in battle. That's why I'm questioning, it was ordered to the battle but broke down enroute.  I have no problem if it would be disallowed, it'll just give me an excuse to go buy another model.

If any of those stories are documented in a book, then my inclination is to say it would be totally ok.    Even the instance of being ordered to Berlin, breaking down and then being blown up by its crew.  That was the fate of many Panzers throughout the final months.  Can you imagine how demoralizing that had to have been for the crews?  

Scott I have no idea if the Maus ever fired a shot in anger but I do have a pic of the remains of the tank after it was destroyed.

HTH 

Count me in!  I love the latter start time.  Lets me finish up current builds.  Thinking of doing something German.  Have to research what, but am leaning towards a Panther G late.  Any help in getting the correct paint scheme would be helpful.

thanks

I was looking in armor and someone (I think Manny's revenge) posted info on the battel and there where ilistrations of the viacals used and there was an SU-100 in it so... I'm in with the DML 1/35 premiam edition!

Thanks for posting the info on the batte who ever posted it!

Could you put my name down please. I'm going to try and keep away from the heavy armour if thats ok.

I've got Tamiya's 8 ton semi-track with 37mm flak, if this fits the time frame.

If not, I could go for a sdkfz 251, or maybe face Dragons 88 (so many parts!!!!).

Or I could always give in to the urge to go for a big cat

I'm in! Going to wait to decide on what to build until it starts...maybe try to go with something that's not covered. Or I could always do that SU-100 Premium...

Should be a good one! 

MMC - save that 251, there's going to be a 251 Series GB this fall as well.

I made up my mind - I'll be building the 1/35 Cyber-Hobby Panther F.

And Dupes, you should start thinking about guidelines and an official post for the 251 GB, we've been talking about it for forever and an age...start sometime in the fall and run for 251 days. Or something like that

Hermesminiatures wrote:

I made up my mind - I'll be building the 1/35 Cyber-Hobby Panther F. And Dupes, you should start thinking about guidelines and an official post for the 251 GB, we've been talking about it for forever and an age...start sometime in the fall and run for 251 days. Or something like that

I know there was some speculation as to whether or not any were actually produced. 

Daimler-Benz representatives were not asked about, nor did they comment on, their success in producing a few Panther Ausf.F at the Daimler-Benz assembly plant in Berlin-Marienfelde. But with a report it was possible to prove due to the Fgst.-Numbers that all Panthers which were delivered in the final days of the Reich by Daimler-Benz before production ended on 24th April 1945, were of Ausf.G type.  If some few Panther F would have been completed, they would have been handed over to II./Panzerregiment 2 in April 1945, for immediate action in the defence of Berlin.

Scott, put me down for either a Tamiya or DML JS-II!  I'll know which one as soon as I'm done with my trip.  I'm so glad the start date is Sept. 8, it will give me time to finish all the unfinished GB kits I have sitting on the shelf!

bufflehead wrote:

Scott, put me down for either a Tamiya or DML JS-II!  I'll know which one as soon as I'm done with my trip.  I'm so glad the start date is Sept. 8, it will give me time to finish all the unfinished GB kits I have sitting on the shelf!

I hear that buddy.  I've got a few builds that I need to get done before Sept. 

espins1 wrote:

I know there was some speculation as to whether or not any were actually produced.  Daimler-Benz representatives were not asked about, nor did they comment on, their success in producing a few Panther Ausf.F at the Daimler-Benz assembly plant in Berlin-Marienfelde. But with a report it was possible to prove due to the Fgst.-Numbers that all Panthers which were delivered in the final days of the Reich by Daimler-Benz before production ended on 24th April 1945, were of Ausf.G type.  If some few Panther F would have been completed, they would have been handed over to II./Panzerregiment 2 in April 1945, for immediate action in the defence of Berlin.

Did that quote come from this article? It seems a little loose in differentiating between Panther F and Panther II. The Cyber-Hobby Panther F is the Schmallturm mounted on the G chassis, not a Panther II chassis. There were at least two photographically documented Ausf G's mounted with the F turret, and lots of spare parts lying around at the DB factory. I think that a G with F turret would have had a pretty good chance of seeing some combat...as good as the Maus.

If you'd prefer I build something else, I have a Hetzer I could do. The guidelines would get kind of sticky here, though, as far as what's allowed - do you need a picture, did it have to see combat or just exist in the specified time period, etc. Personally I think things like the Maus and Panther F would be fine, since they fit well with the last defense idea, and they do have some evidence going for them and aren't totally weird Panzerwaffe '46 designs. Either way, though, it's not a big deal.

Hermesminiatures wrote:

espins1 wrote: I know there was some speculation as to whether or not any were actually produced.  Daimler-Benz representatives were not asked about, nor did they comment on, their success in producing a few Panther Ausf.F at the Daimler-Benz assembly plant in Berlin-Marienfelde. But with a report it was possible to prove due to the Fgst.-Numbers that all Panthers which were delivered in the final days of the Reich by Daimler-Benz before production ended on 24th April 1945, were of Ausf.G type.  If some few Panther F would have been completed, they would have been handed over to II./Panzerregiment 2 in April 1945, for immediate action in the defence of Berlin. Did that quote come from this article? It seems a little loose in differentiating between Panther F and Panther II. The Cyber-Hobby Panther F is the Schmallturm mounted on the G chassis, not a Panther II chassis. There were at least two photographically documented Ausf G's mounted with the F turret, and lots of spare parts lying around at the DB factory. I think that a G with F turret would have had a pretty good chance of seeing some combat...as good as the Maus. If you'd prefer I build something else, I have a Hetzer I could do. The guidelines would get kind of sticky here, though, as far as what's allowed - do you need a picture, did it have to see combat or just exist in the specified time period, etc. Personally I think things like the Maus and Panther F would be fine, since they fit well with the last defense idea, and they do have some evidence going for them and aren't totally weird Panzerwaffe '46 designs. Either way, though, it's not a big deal.

Sold! 

I think both the Maus and the Panther F, in the instances we've discussed so far, would be totally allowed as they are in the spirit of this GB and the final desperate days of the Reich.  I just wanted to be careful not to open the flood gates for a slew of paper panzers and what ifs, if you know what I mean. 

Excellent list of reference and info.... may I humbly suggest another excellent book?

Armageddon - The Battle for Germany 1944-1945  by the eminent historian Max Hastings (author of Overlord and many others). A tad on the academic side, reads more like a Keegan book than an Ambrose one. Goes in depth into some of the reasons behind the events, but also contains LOADS of detailed combat info (no pics though ;)

As for me, Ill build the old Tamiya T34/85 and try not to bring the quality of the GB too far down :)  Cheers

I am most definitely in on this GB.  Only question is ... what to build.  I have a 3 in 1 Tiger I in the pile so would a final production Tiger I qualify?  If so, would it have had zimmerit applied at that stage?

My 1^st choice though is a Sd.Kfz. 234/3.  Doing a little research this morning if read that it produced until Dec 1944 so the time frame is right.  The Dragon kit comes with markings for one that was with the "Ulrich Von Hutten" Division, Germany 1945.  Anyone have any info on the Division?  If it turns out they were engaging the Yanks and Brits to the west, would that disqualify it for a "Red Storm" GB? Or is just having the right time frame good enough?

I would do my KingTiger, but I can't wait 'til Sep. to start that

After much thinking I've narrowed the choice to either 8 ton semi track with flak 37 (the older one with the armoured cab) or a Jagdpanzer IV L70 Lang.

Could anyone let me know if these fit in with the time scale

Cheers, Mark 

Hermesminiatures wrote:

And Dupes, you should start thinking about guidelines and an official post for the 251 GB, we've been talking about it for forever and an age...start sometime in the fall and run for 251 days. Or something like that

Hermes - good idea. I'll get on it this week...I know there's a lot of people chomping at the bit for that one.

Like the 251 day build span as well.