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#6 Polish Artillery Tractor C7P-WIP 4/18--More Weathering Pics Page 12

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posted by IBuild148 on Friday, February 12, 2010 7:49 PM

Hi Bill,

Trying to catch up on all the aircraft/armor threads since January. Stumbled across yours and read all replies.

Very Interesting subject along with punch and die, fabricating, metal, soldering, Palmolive, fruils, ball peen hammers.......ROCK & ROLL and way FRIC_EN Cool!

 

 

IBuildOne48

Teach modeling to youth!

Scalefinishes.com

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/NMF%20Group%20build%20II/Group%20Badge/NMFIIGBbadgesmall.jpg

 

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Goffstown, NH
Posted by New Hampshire on Friday, February 12, 2010 7:29 PM

Citadelgrad87

  It appears that if you let the punched out rivets accumulate, subsequent punches squash and distort the earlier punched out parts, which gives you varying sized rivets

I won't tell ya how many of those deformed disks came out of mine (actually mine is from Micro Mark, but the same thing) before I realized what was going on.  I kept scratching my head thinking "why the H*LL are these things all messed up!?!?!?"  I actually thought I was doing something wrong.  Then it dawned on me...... Embarrassed

But anyways Bill, your build is looking wonderful so far!

Brian

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Everett, WA
Posted by Schnobs on Friday, February 12, 2010 10:46 AM

Bill if your day job doesn't work out for you I believe you would have an excellent career as a hand Model.  If Bob Barker was still around I know he would hire you for Price Is Right!  It's all I can do to restrain myself form either guessing the Price of that little ball peen or rushing out and buying one!

I agree with my esteemed Colleauge Wbill 2.0 Rivits are an improvement.  I like the additional detail you applied to the bogeys!  Well done!

 

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Friday, February 12, 2010 9:50 AM

Rivets 2.0 look much better Bill. Have to agree with Dave, it's amazing how you've turned a problem into a great opportunity to scratch and enhance this little beastie. Wink Beer

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Eugene, Oregon
Posted by hughes2682 on Friday, February 12, 2010 1:06 AM
Bill, That's the spirit! Don't settle for OK. I am seriously liking what you are doing with this beastie. Funny how the broken fender got you to where you are. What you've done has most certainly been exceptional! I've been following this one mostly from the sidelines. Now that I see you've been using a product produced a few miles south of me I felt the need to chime in. Keep up the fantastic work Cheers Dave

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/Aaronw/Groupbuilds/ClassicAviationGB2010bomb.jpg

With enough thrust, pigs fly just fine.

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Friday, February 12, 2010 12:42 AM

Thanks, Bill, I agree on the suspension, I did some more tweaking, sort of artsy for me, trying to put on realistic detail onto something I don't have a good picture of, but I think with paint on it it will catch washes and look fine.

On to the progress: The prior version of the fender rivest was done using the smallest of the large Waldron punch and die set.  I used Bill's suggested method of comparing the hull rivets to the punches to get an approximation.  I ended up using the secind smallest punch, it's roughly the size of a hat pin in diameter.

Before using the tiny die, I bought this, my now smallest hammer:

I used that teeny hamer to make new rivets for the fenders, and discovered something about halfway through.  It appears that if you let the punched out rivets accumulate, subsequent punches squash and distort the earlier punched out parts, which gives you varying sized rivets.

On with the new and hopefully improved front fender rivets:

 

 

 

And I also added some more detail to the running gear, this is what i came up with so far:

 

 

Comments welcome! THanks for the extra eyes on this,

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 2:16 PM

Bill,

Nothing to add to what's already been said except to offer the following suggestion. As a kind of size-reality check, compare the size of your bolts with the size of the rivets on the hull glacis plate. The bolts would likely be simillar size to that vs. what you've got now in terms of scale reference and should help bring things more in line. 

I think the work on the suspension is worth it. IMHO once you add it and paint it it will add some more depth to that area especially when you get to the wethering process. Yes 

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 1:10 PM

Thanks for the critical eye, Ed and Pawel, that's why I post the pictures here....well, OK, it's nicer when you get "Wow that's cool!", but honestly the eyes here help me be a better modeler.

This morning, I uncermoniously pried off the offending gigantor rivets, and will dig out a smaller punch tonight and try to do better.

Thanks, guys!

Bill   

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 2:57 AM

I'd opt for smaller rivets/bolts too. Do some calculations, how big would those be in 1:1? On the fenders I would expect bolts with heads no bigger than 17mm. That would make 0.5mm in scale.  By the way, for all those people who don't have that cool punch&die set, you can add rivet detail by stretching the sprue and then cutting slices off of it, and using those as rivet heads. You can even file the stretched sprue hexagonally and by slicing you get very realistic bolt heads. Keep up the good work & have a nice day

Pawel

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Everett, WA
Posted by Schnobs on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 12:32 AM

Bill you are the cool guy on the block with a Punch and Die set! 

Most of it looks great but not to rain on your parade or anything I think I would go with a smaller rivet on the fender bracket at least in my opinion based on these photos. 

The running gear looks great and that size works well.

Keep it up we wanr to see primer!!!

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Tuesday, February 9, 2010 12:14 AM

Thanks for the wonderful pictures, VAN!  Those are more than I have found online in a couple months of searching, great detail shots there.

Edmund and Adam, my brothers in styrene, thanks so much for your support.  You guys are really inspirations and standouts, your consistent ability and results really inspire me.

Tonight, a Riddle:  What do you get when you cross this:

with an obscure early WW2 tractor lacking in detail and recently having recieved fenders, devoid of surface detail?

Oh, just THIS!!!

A bit of missing proportionaility, I chalk that up to being stupid and putting the critical framework on after bending and attaching the fenders, lesson learned!

 

A bit of under edge detail:

 

Then, since I can't simply call this construction done and prime this, I decided to use the new punch set to add some detail to the running gear, the top is "as is", the bottom is, maybe, improved?  Please let me know if you think this looks like it's worth the effort:

 

I punched some details, and I added a bit of brass rod as a spring clamp.

Well, not bad for a Monday update!

Thanks for looking, and comments always welcome!

Bill

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Ventura (at the beach) in California
Posted by *INDY on Sunday, February 7, 2010 5:42 PM

~Van~ Beautiful collection of relevant photos---very nice to share those!

~Ed~ hi Ed ! I agree, he better, huh?

~Bill~ This little tractor of yours is becoming increadably impressive. As Schnobs says "Are you going to go watch other men exersize(I can't even spell it) or are you going to model!? Let's do this!

When I saw your fenders at this point I had to......It made me....

proud as the day my kitty got her 1st kill

 

"Well...you gunna pull them pistols, or just whistle Dixie?"

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Everett, WA
Posted by Schnobs on Sunday, February 7, 2010 2:39 PM

Hi Bill,

Your hard and dedication to push yourself to try new techniques is really showing here.  I am very proud of you!  Very cool indeed.This is going to look fantastic with Primer on it. Take lot's of pics before and after primer please!!

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
Van
  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: London, UK
Posted by Van on Sunday, February 7, 2010 2:34 PM

Hi,

All those improvements make your model looks really good...Bow Down

I want to share some photos of the C7P tractor from the beginning of IIWW. Some are Polish and some German photos....

 

 

"So many models so little time"

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Sunday, February 7, 2010 1:25 PM

Thanks, Bill, slow, but sure is the name of the game.

I decided that the styrene detail was insufficient, so I riped it off and re-did the fron fenders, and this had the added bonus of making funsional fender mounts.  My soldering is coming along, slowly.

On to the anti super bowl entertainment!

 

Now for some bolt/and/or rivet detail...more to come!

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 8:06 PM

Tracks look suitably blackened and the rework on the fenders is sharp as well Bill! Yes

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Saturday, February 6, 2010 4:46 PM

Hi guys,

Last night I spent about an hour or two re-doing the rear fender detail, I decided to solder on brass strip instead of that plastic detail. It was tough without the propoer equipment, but today I picked up some alligator clips, next time I will be ready.  Here are the new, improved, rear fenders

 

 

 

 

I also got the fruils assembled and blacken-it-ed, and here they are for a test fit:

 

More later!

Bill

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 2:01 AM

Hi Adam!

Oh, Im having a blast, I love this hobby, just not the tracks part of it.  I tend to exaggerate difficulties, but I am most definately enjoying myself.  I love that Russian  figure, I sent one to Edmund about 6 mo ago.  Yours came out amazing!

I don't mind that you like magic tracks, some of my best friends like magic tracks.  I just can't get them to stay assembled long enough to get them on. 

I took some pictures, Indy, but I saw your post as a command performance, and I hadn't uploaded them yet.   I will go back and upload them and weave them into my story.  I will get some bench time this week, this one is getting close to paint.  I need to pick your brain about something, and a few hull details, and then I get to paint it!  Shooting for this weekend for paint, I hope.

Thanks, Adam.

Bill   

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Ventura (at the beach) in California
Posted by *INDY on Monday, February 1, 2010 11:47 PM

OK Buddy, as long as you're having fun  Sad

That's quite a story there Bill. Well writen.      I like Magic tracks.    There ,...I said it.       Truth is on those tiny tracked vehickys there's no easy way, besides the rubberband(heaven forbid!)

I think pictures might have been bettter than you think, but I'll take your word. Hope you get some good , solid benchtime...maybe even before the weekend!

"Well...you gunna pull them pistols, or just whistle Dixie?"

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Monday, February 1, 2010 1:25 PM

Hi Indy,

 

OK, you have shamed me into posting a progress report.  Nothing as glamorous as the fenders I hewed out of the very living rock....uh, wait, I mean that I folded out of sheet brass and bent a bit.

Against my nature, i bring you a words only update, no photos.  I took a few, mind you, but last night got away from me and I didn't get a chance, here we go  

This was a non "sexy" progress week. 

My former experience with black “magic” tracks has led me in a quest away from those freakishly difficult items which are really the only part of the hobby I do not like.  I read the tutorials, they made sense to me, and I followed them to the letter, twice.  Both times I had a disaster, separations, weird kinks in the track runs, too short, too long, cursing, sweating, it was not cool.  At all.  Then I did it again.  And it was nasty AGAIN. 

 

First I fled to model kastens, after seeing our own WBill use them with such success.  These were far better than the type whose name shall not be spoken, but were still super fragile.

 

Enter Fruils.  Pure, pot metal karmic perfection.  METAL!  Held together with METAL!!  I grabbed a set for my IS3, they are HUGE, heavy, appear to sag realistically, they are tough, it’s everything I ever dreamed of.  BTW, I only assembled the IS3s, I haven’t even started on that model yet, let alone weathered the tracks.

 

(To those kind souls who will chime in that I could get another whole kit for the price of Fruils, those who know me know I am a frugal shopper, I got  both a KV-1/and a KV-2 last week, delivered, for $40.00, I am a cheap boy.  But if I have to use magic tracks, I am out of this hobby, it is truly that bad for me.  It’s as simple as that.  I am not kidding)    

 

So naturally, when the rubber band tracks on this tractor appeared as featureless as, well, rubber bands, I did some homework and determined that this tractor has Vickers tank running gear.  Fruil makes Vickers/T26 tracks, so I grabbed some.

 

Let me start with the relative difference between an IS3 and this tractor thing.  Look at this thing in my hands in this thread.  It is TINY.  How did it not occur to me that the fruils would be TINY?  They replace the rubber band tracks, those would seem to indicate to any rational person that the tracks are small.

 

So I guess a direct effect of the tiny tracks is the fact that I had to DRILL OUT every single pin hole.  Not most, not a lot, but all.  For the IS3, I chased maybe 6 holes, and did so by simply punching through with a bit.  On these jeweler grade delicate tracks, I had to drill the holes because if they weren’t drilled, the bit would rip the channel open and it would go into the discard pile.

 

4 days of 1-3 hour sessions with my Optivisor and my thinnest drill bit, first one whole track run, then the next, I though it would never end, but it finally did Friday night.  Saturday morning, I started my patented “substitute .020 brass wire instead of the stainless wire because someone told me is worked better” routine.  It took forever, but, working between family obligations, I got two track runs done by Sunday evening.  Then I washed them down with some dish soap,

and scrubbed them with e toothbrush

then I tossed them in a tub with some heated white vinegar, and let them sit for two hours. 

 I was going to Blacken it them, but by then it was 2300 on a school night, so I had to hit the bunk.

 

My plan is a single 10 minute or so application, followed by touch up with a brush to get the substance into any nooks and crannies that I miss with the first go around.  I understand that two applications approaches black, which I think will look too dark.

 

 

Thanks for checking on me, Indy.                    

 

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Ventura (at the beach) in California
Posted by *INDY on Monday, February 1, 2010 7:51 AM

Man ~ ! Is this a cool build! No update in an entire week, however.......not cool.   Come on Bill....you we're at the bench yesterday...anything happen? Anything good ? 

 Camera + Idea + Censored + Automobile = update    =   Stick out tongueBig SmileYesNoGeekedSurpriseBow Down...ect...ect

 

"Well...you gunna pull them pistols, or just whistle Dixie?"

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted by model maniac 96 on Monday, January 25, 2010 10:52 PM

LOL!!!!!! Nice build though! I really like the fenders and the engine!

 

      Thanks, Jim

"Veni, Vidi, Vici" Julius Caesar: I came, I saw, I conquered.
  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Monday, January 25, 2010 7:12 PM

Any time, Adam!

Uh, your cat seems peeved, though.

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Ventura (at the beach) in California
Posted by *INDY on Monday, January 25, 2010 7:09 PM

Thanks for firing back with that Bill--I feel appreciated now!

 

"Well...you gunna pull them pistols, or just whistle Dixie?"

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Monday, January 25, 2010 5:51 PM

Man-O-Man!  Nice comments from all sides on this one, that makes the effort worth it.  Adam, Ed, Bill, bufflehead, scratchmod, panzerguy, a rogue's gallery of talent!

Thanks for the posuitive feedback, this place is a great place to improve.  A reminder, Adam thoughtfully posted some great how-to solder links, like any new skill, it's a bit scary atr first, but with top notch resources like the step by steps Adam posted, it's do-able.  I encourage anyone who is thinking about trying this to pore over the links and dive in.

thanks again, guys!

Bill  

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Sunday, January 24, 2010 11:22 PM

 Bill what a great build you've got going on just top notch! The time and effort is paying off big time. Well done on the fendersYes.

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:52 PM

You've definitely hit a home run with these now that you've banged them up...they looked great from a fabrication standpoint and I hoped you wouldn't get too enamored with them that you were going to leave them in pristine condition. Stick out tongue Sharp work all around and the damage looks just right IMHO to go with the tough towing duty this would've been subjected to by the Germans. Yes

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Sunday, January 24, 2010 8:55 PM

citadel, I haven't been frequenting the forums that much so I missed this thread!  I love the subject of your WIP, the C7P being a very interesting early war vehicle!  I've got a couple of different versions in the stash and am eager to see how your's turns out!  GREAT work so far with the fender and grill improvements and also with the interior work! 

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: mass,USA
Posted by scratchmod on Sunday, January 24, 2010 5:09 PM

WOW Stick out tongue that little sucker looks too nice. Man is there a lot of nice detailing on such a TINY little model. The PE  (brass) fenders are fantastico. This just gets better and better, keep those pics coming Bill.

 

Rob

www.scratchmod.com

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:48 PM

Well, guys, I can comfortably say I am no longer afraind of soldered PE and/or simple brass sheet fabrication. 

Thanks, Indy (Adam) for the information and the push in the right direction.  It wasn't the first time you have encouraged me to try something I thought was beyond my abilities, and I hope it's not the last.  It was nice finally talking to you today!  You can be sure I read and re-read the soldering links, and I'm still pretty shaky, but the jopints are strong, I bent them up (see below) and they held up.  This old tractor is now much much better than OOB, and I appreciate your help.

Edmund, you are far too kind, my friend.  I have seen you grow immensely over the past year, such praise from you is treasured.

Enough awards ceremony speeches, this thing isn't even primed yet.  WHen we last left off, the plain metal fabrication was done, but we lacked detail and I wasns't sure whether to damage them.  Adam hit me with the unassailable logic that if I didn't bend them up a bit, then when there was paint on, they might as well just be plastic, the main reason to do them of metal is that it can be damaged like metal. 

So without further delay, here are some shots:

 

A close up of the minor wear and tear

WIth the cab in place

 

THere are some gaps, the cab is just sitting on there for now

 

 Thte rear

 

 

 

Top showing damage

 

WE now return you to your regularly scheduled plastic modeling.

Bill

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