DML Sdkfz 164 Nashorn COMPLETE pics p.14 03-13-10

Thanks for the link Karl, can definitely understand the distraction of pancakes! I've moved well beyond the stage of the ammo bins now and have committed to the styrene options for them but appreciate the thought all the same.

wbill76

Karl,

The DML PE looks nothing like the Verlinden PE in terms of parts or design other than what they look like fully assembled so I'm pretty sure they don't share a common heritage . The Verlinden design is much more "3-D" vs. what DML came up with, for example the DML PE doesn't have the back brace supports for the main round support and they "fake" the triangular look at the front by just bending a piece down vs. actually constructing a 3-D structure like the Verlinden pieces. In addition the DML parts are at least 2-3mm too tall on the support brackets for the shell bases and necks for example so a lot more trimming is needed and the front supports also don't have anywhere for the neck bracket to attach to in terms of supporting a vertical/loaded rack. It's really a mess!

By comparison the Verlinden set also looks to be more accurate in terms of how it constructs the bin since it includes the side locking wing-nuts which the DML parts omit.

That's a real conundrum, and quite a bummer. IN any case, here ya go--on sale, eBay right now, in case you can't get the parts to do what you wnat 'em to...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Verlinden-1-35-Nashorn-Detail-Ammo-Set-item-1988_W0QQitemZ180309420281QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item29fb4768f9

Karl,

The DML PE looks nothing like the Verlinden PE in terms of parts or design other than what they look like fully assembled so I'm pretty sure they don't share a common heritage . The Verlinden design is much more "3-D" vs. what DML came up with, for example the DML PE doesn't have the back brace supports for the main round support and they "fake" the triangular look at the front by just bending a piece down vs. actually constructing a 3-D structure like the Verlinden pieces. In addition the DML parts are at least 2-3mm too tall on the support brackets for the shell bases and necks for example so a lot more trimming is needed and the front supports also don't have anywhere for the neck bracket to attach to in terms of supporting a vertical/loaded rack. It's really a mess!

By comparison the Verlinden set also looks to be more accurate in terms of how it constructs the bin since it includes the side locking wing-nuts which the DML parts omit.

Ahhhh, Bill---I see now--well, don't feel bad; I had pretty much the EXACT same problem with y PE parts from Verlinden! Hey, do you think they just went and copied the parts?

Here's what I had to do to get mine to fit. Same issues, basically--the PE was the problem, mostly!

Don't dispair Tony, that's why they call it model building and not just model assembly! I'm sure you'll be able to get it fixed and carry on. In my case I found a suitable workaround so it's onward and upward!

Looks like it just ain't our day Bill we've both got problems.

Tony Lee

Wayne, glad you like it!

Karl, the problem wasn't the size of the AFV brass shells, I was able to fit the requisite 8 shells into the bin no problem using the styrene parts. The second pic I posted has the full 8 rounds in place, 2 side-by-side in stacks of 4.  The PE is where the problem came in, not with the brass rounds. Here's the fret parts in question, parts MA25, MA26, and MA13.

And the instruction diagram:

The problem was actually fitting the DML PE to the shells and also getting it all to fit properly in the space available. The instructions call for the base MA25 Parts to be folded and then add the bracket frame MA26 to them with the inner braces MA13 creating the resting spot for the shell, two per base MA26 or one per shell. The first problem I encountered was that the bases of the brass rounds didn't fit all the way down inside without distorting the angles of the sides. The second problem I encountered was that the height of the sides of MA26 were too tall to fit into the space available. It's possible that trimming/cutting could make them fit, but as often happens with the Premium upgrades DML provides in these kits, what looks good on paper doesn't actually work when married up with the parts without that kind of modification or adaptation. After wrecking a couple of attempts trying to get them to work, I decided I was better off just going with the styrene option.  

I will still be able to add parts MA21 after the rounds are installed to provide some better detail so it's not a total loss but I still think the PE option as provided by DML really only works if you want to show some of the holders empty and folded down vs. upright and stocked.

The Verlinden resin set may indeed provide some different options/variations with the added flexibility of the resin vs. brass in terms of what kinds of modifications can be made. I just want to be sure people don't think that the AFV rounds aren't usable, in my opinion the fault is with the DML PE in this case and not the brass rounds themselves.  

Doog

your work always seems to be flawless. its Amazing!   Thank you

-Adam J.

Bill, one of the things you could have done with those shells would have been to file the bases down on one side flat, so that they could sit side-by-side. I think I might have done that on my Nashorn? I managed to squeeze two in:

Where I had the problem was in constructing the actual innards of the boxes--I had to do a bit of filing and cutting to the PE to make it work.

In any case, I hope you don't mind me posting the photos, but I figure for WIP-watchers and future reference, this might be a good "heads-up" to let people know that, though the gun may be not the best choice, in this case, the Verlinden resin shells might at least be a better choice in the racks, rather than the brass ones.

Breaking with tradition, I have a little mini-update tonight due to the fact that the DML PE provided for the ammo bins proved to be virtually worthless for what I wanted to do. I'm glad I didn't start out by removing the molded on detail on the inside of the ammo bin otherwise I would've been forced to go with both bins closed. A test fit of the small retaining brackets showed that they were too small to accurately fit the AFV brass rounds at their base. They were fine for the neck of the rounds but it turned out they are too wide to allow for side-by-side fitting of the rounds, so you can't fit the full 8 rounds that should be in the bin either. To complicate things the height of the retaining brackets was too tall to fit the space provided...so it turned into an all-around bust in terms of using the PE. To top it all off, the PE is very, very fragile and easily bent while removing it from the fret and trying to install it in the tight spaces of the bin. Long story short, I ended up going with the styrene parts to allow me to load the bin properly and display it open and fully stocked.

One thing the PE was good for however was the folding door to the bin. This has a nice scale thickness and accordion folds nicely but you have to be very careful and bend it right the first time otherwise the etch lines are so deep it will snap in half if you make a mistake. I know this because I made that mistake on the first set of doors but fortunately there's 2 in the set and I only needed one! The doors were checked to make sure they were folded down tight enough to not interfere with the fit to the hull side on the loader's side and then were glued in place with Gator Grip glue to allow it to be properly centered. The little overhang on either side is supposed to be there but isn't very wide so it has to be just so to look right.  

I test fitted the rounds into the bin to see how it would look fully stocked. The beauty of the AFV brass rounds are that all the actual rounds are separate so it will be very easy to paint and detail them prior to installation. The set includes different types of rounds to provide a nice variety of 3 rounds each of 4 different types for a total of 12 rounds, not enough to stock both bins of course but still a nice bunch.

We have confidence in you Bill. I'm sure you'll find a solution. No rush with the painting.

Rob

www.scratchmod.com

Thanks Marc, glad you're current!

Steve, my pleasure but really it's nothing that a whole bunch of other builders don't also do now these days. One of the joys of the Internet is being able to find out about potential pitfalls in advance so if I can return the favor to some other builder I consider it a "paying it forward" type of exercise.

Rob, will do my best not to disappoint! I'm in the process of determining the best way to handle the open ammo bin. Since I'm using the AFV brass rounds, it's causing some complications with the size of the DML provided PE which in turn is making it somewhat of a hybrid exercise between the styrene and PE parts as well as figuring out how to get it all fitted in there and in what order!

What, painting the interior on the weekend already. The man wastes no time. Looks great Bill and the added info on the parts will be a great help to others. I had no problems building this kit, mainly because I don't follow the instructions, force of habit when building wrecks.

Boy I can't wait for the weekends up date

Rob

www.scratchmod.com

redleg12

As I read through this it came to me.....DML or whoever should hire you to review a new kit before it comes out and ....re-write the directions......you WIPs would be much better than what the manufacturer supplies.

Rounds Complete!!

 Here! Here! Mike

wbill76

Mike, high praise indeed and I wish DML would hire someone to proof their instructions, it would sure save a lot of headaches! Believe it or not the whole reason I started writing build log threads was due to that very shortcoming...that and the fact that at the time there weren't a whole lot of people out there blogging their builds so it was kind of hit or miss as to whether or not you could find someone who'd already gone through the pain and lived to tell about it.

   Your pain has been our gain Bill and I for one thank you!

Someone has been a busy little boy  Just got caught up with your build and it look mighty fine.

Tony, thanks for the heads-up! I checked the fit and so long as I don't install the side angled plates and the gun can freely rotate, it's possible to get it in place but it is tight. I can see where it could cause problems for the unwary, thanks for watching my back.

Mike, high praise indeed and I wish DML would hire someone to proof their instructions, it would sure save a lot of headaches! Believe it or not the whole reason I started writing build log threads was due to that very shortcoming...that and the fact that at the time there weren't a whole lot of people out there blogging their builds so it was kind of hit or miss as to whether or not you could find someone who'd already gone through the pain and lived to tell about it.

Bill -  as always looking good.

As I read through this it came to me.....DML or whoever should hire you to review a new kit before it comes out and ....re-write the directions......you WIPs would be much better than what the manufacturer supplies.

Now that your index pin is back in on your recuperator after that equilibrator situation, you are right on the mark...

Rounds Complete!!

Get it on,Get it on.

Hey Bill I sure hope you don't have the fit problems that some have had by installing that splinter or splatter shield. I installed it after I had the rest of the casement and gun installed temporarily to make sure it didn't interfere with anything and it paid off.

Until next weekend

Tony Lee

Very likely Steve at least for the interior!

Tracks done. Gun finished. Hull almost complet. At this rate Bill could next weekends update be including some paint?

Work continued today on the interior and the fighting compartment. The first item of business was to return to Step 4 and add the plate which covers the engine compartment and provides the base for the gun mount. This is part C2 and it's a large part that fit well except for the front where it joined the angled glacis plate. I had to use some putty and careful sanding there to fill gaps while not destroying the bolt detail in the area in the process.

Returning to the instruction order, I skipped Step 16 since this involves the installation of the tracks and I'm not quite ready to do that at this time. Steps 17 and 18 deal with the side panels of the fighting compartment and I studied the diagrams carefully in these steps and the remaining steps to determine which molded on locator marks weren't needed. The instructions don't indicate which should be removed and there are many provided that are obviously intended for the Hummel and not the Nashorn, so once I figured out which had to go, it was a matter of sanding them down along with some faint ejector marks to get them ready for further assembly.

I elected not to use the kit-provided PE option for the side air intakes due to the large amount of surgery required to use them vs. minimal detail gain IMHO but did opt to use the PE version of the MG34 ammo rack for the right side. The rack was bent to shape and installed with Gator Grip glue and will get populated later on with ammo cans and other goodies. I also installed the MG34 mount and will add the MG34 itself later as well. The instructions want you to install the triangular braces, parts C13/B22, directly to the lower hull but I opted to install them to the sides first to allow for a truer fit and also to facilitate painting.
 

For the left side, I added the large vehicle tool box as well as the smaller box for the top. This box has molded on hinge detail but the backside is hollow, so to prevent it from being visible after installation, I added a strip of sheet styrene to simulate the rest of the box and blank it off. I also added some 0.5mm solder conduit wire for the intercom box and glued this in place with liquid glue. The mount for the "rabbit ears" periscope was also installed and I assembled it carefully so that the swivel would remain workable but will add the scope itself later after painting.

This step also involves the rear plate of the fighting compartment but only deals with the exterior details. I skipped ahead to Step 19 and added the grab handles and MP40 mounts and also removed the unneeded molded on locator marks and raised ejector marks as well. In a reversal I left off all the exterior details and will add those later after the plate is installed.

Step 19 deals primarily with the installation of the left side ammo bin and has all the diagrams for the possible use of the PE options if the bins are shown open. Since I'm only tentatively planning to show the loader's side bin open, I installed the gunner's side bin using the styrene options and in the closed position. The lifting eyes were fitted in place using the locator jigs from Step 4 and I added missing conduit detail for this side as well using 0.5mm diameter solder. The long conduit above the floor had some brackets added using scrap PE 'fingers' from an Eduard fret bent to shape and glued in place.

In preparation for painting I also went ahead and installed the remaining interior details featured in Steps 23 and 24 in the form of lifting eyes, the heater air pipe for the crew, and the remote travel lock release lever and cable conduit. In order to insure that the conduit was placed correctly, I also installed the curved base plate on the splinter shield from Step 25. The heater air pipe was molded solid so I drilled out the end with a large drill bit and pin vise to give it the proper scale thickness for sheet metal before installing it.

Rather than try to jam in the effort on the loader's side ammo bin, I'm going to tackle that one when I'm fresh since it's got a lot of little bitty PE to work with. Once that's done and installed, I can start the paint and detail work for the fighting compartment.

Steve, thanks for the comments! I had the same reaction whenever I got the gun assembled, it's huge! It is indeed the same gun as that mounted on the KT.

Mike, thanks as well, an update on today's progess soon to follow!

Bill, excellent work up with the gun and all those little thingees that go with it. Looking forward to the rest of the build. Onward my friend!

  Bill looking good as always.

   Man that barrel is long! Am I correct that this the same gun that would later be mounted on the King Tiger the K43/71?

Gotta love the MK's. The results are well worth the time.

Thanks Tony! The gun takes up most of the parts in the kit believe it or not and has the most steps devoted to its assembly so it was definitely a major milestone to clear!

Rob, I hear you about being on the receiving end...there are field reports of them making kills out to 3km or more on the Eastern Front. The paint stage is still a little ways off due to the fact that I'm going to have to tackle this in sections due to the open top and interior but perhaps next weekend, we shall see!

Making good progress Bill. I love the looks of that big 88, but it would have sucked to actually be on the receiving end of that killer.

Well buddy you know what part of the build I'm waiting for.........PAINT

Rob

www.scratchmod.com

Bill you did real nice on the gun,clean the way I like em.

Tony Lee

No worries Karl, I figured you were talking about the nightmare of the Verlinden set! Glad to hear you're almost done and ready to get back to the bench!

Bill,

No, no, no! I was not inferring any such matter--just reminiscing on the "fun" I had with the Verlinden set which you wisely eschewed in favor of this arrangement!

The tour went well--tonight's the last show, and I'm coming home Tuesday! WAHOOOO!!! I can't WAIT to get back to the bench!!

Jim, thanks for the comments! In answer to your question about the MK tracks, they are my personal preferred choice for replacement tracks due to price and availability vs. Fruils for example. They do take some work to get together since the guide horns on this particular set are molded separate to create the hollow horn but otherwise I like them.

Karl, thanks for stopping in as well, hope your time in Europe is going well! Just to be sure, are you saying that the barrel doesn't look straight? If so, it must be the light reflection off the aluminum or the tilted angle of the pics due to the stand that creates that impression, In actuality the barrel itself is perfectly straight but it did take some doing to get it all lined up since the base of the aluminum barrel essentially was just a replica of the styrene parts and didn't have any sort of contact point aside from where the two parts met. Just wanted to be sure I wasn't misunderstanding the intent of your comment. I hear you about trying to line up resin stuff with no locating tabs or such, that can be a maddening exercise under any conditions!

Mike, thanks for the comments and the correction on my poor descriptive terminology. I have to keep reminding myself that they are "equilibrators"...mea culpa, it was late last night when I typed it up. I will fix so as not to lead anyone astray with poorly defined terms on the boom-thingy!