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DML Brummbar Mid COMPLETE 07-30-12

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  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Monday, May 21, 2012 9:23 AM

WOW!  You are definitely on roll here.  The Zimm just looks great!!! Yes  Do we really have to wait until next Sunday for an update? LOL  

Andy

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Monday, May 21, 2012 1:18 AM

Seemingly zipping through this one Bill. Gun and case mate look great.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    April 2012
Posted by Reserve on Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:52 PM

Sounds like a few mousetraps hidden in this one, you are overcoming them quite well. It's a great thing for you to be sharing all this with the rest of us.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:04 PM

Wow Bill, the Brummbar is really coming together nicely!  Can' t say enough good things about that Atak zim!  Your exceptional skills, of course, make it look easy!

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:14 PM

Bill - Nice small detail work. Zim is looking good. Hopefully the battle damage of the battle of the *** can be repaired!!

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Sunday, May 20, 2012 8:17 PM

Bill the detail on the gun mechanism is an armor builders dream . Those zim pannels are fitting very well .Yes

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, May 20, 2012 7:53 PM

This weekend's round of bench time was very productive and work continued on the gun and superstructure. I decided to build the gun first as it's designed to go into a static mount in the fighting compartment and everything else revolves around it as a result in terms of fit and placement.

That meant skipping to Step 11 which assembles the gun and breech as well as the collar and recoil cylinders. The breech block can be left movable if you so desire and some sanding is necessary on the join halves of the breech but otherwise it's a straightforward step.

Step 12 combines the elements from the previous step and adds the recoil guards. Step 13 assembles part of the gunner's side of the gun mount by adding a choice of two different styles of traverse gears. I chose the simpler type for expediency. 

Step 14 completes the gunner's side of the mount with the addition of the gunner's seat, the gun sight, and the elevation wheel. There's also a toothed gear that is added that the instructions indicate shouldn't be glued...I tried this out and found it to be unnecessary to allow the gun to elevate and omitted it since I'm closing up the interior anyhow. I suppose if you were really really careful with the glue you could find a way to make the gear actually "turn" with the gun as it elevates but it's not essential to the gun assembly in the long run.

Step 15 is the moment of truth, it adds all of the previous components together along with the base and ball mantlet to create the full gun assembly. The fit on E19, the ball mantlet, was too tight for the gun barrel to slide through so I had to trim and sand it with a round needle file on it's inside diameter to get the gun barrel to fit. Even then it was an extremely tight friction fit and a challenge to get it to slide all the way down. It also has to fit tightly over the side hinge points of the gun mount and the fit has to be just so for it all to work. I got it as far down onto the mount as I could make it go but I suspect that it needed to go about another 1mm or so to actually fit correctly. Unfortunately the friction fit made it impossible for me to remove it and try again...and this in turn resulted in some issues down the road in the following steps.

I added the interior plate from Step 9 and did a test fit with the gun mount dry-fit in place and sure enough, the mantlet interfered with the fit, causing the rear of the superstructure to not align properly with the fenders and engine deck...a major problem. This meant that the interior ring around the ball mount needed to be trimmed back to allow the mantlet to clear it. This was done with careful trial-and-error and much trimming and sanding.

This led me to wonder if the same issue might be encountered with the exterior circular plate, so I added the Atak zim panels and resin plate and did a test fit. It too had the same issue, so same trimming and sanding treatment was called for. I also used some Squadron White putty thinned with liquid cement to fill small gaps around the circular plate and create a unified look with the rest of the zim panels.

I decided to go ahead and zim the rest of the superstructure before installing it to the hull to make sure I didn't run into any more fit issues. I decided that I would not mount the schurzen rails and opted instead for just the small mount tabs as called out in Step 21. The tabs were installed first and the zim panels added after followed by the lifting hooks and pistol ports from Step 9. Small amounts of trimming were needed here and there and lots of test fits with the lower hull, so I'm glad I decided to zim first. I also opted for the command version "adler's nest" 2nd antenna mount and added that from Step 18.

With all that out of the way, it was time to install the superstructure to the lower hull. I used a combination of regular glue, liquid glue, rubber bands, and finger pressure to get a good join all around.

Next up will be the roof and small details and then I'll start in on the tracks.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lehigh Valley PA
Posted by garrand on Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:26 PM

Also consider what upgrade parts you're using. I picked up Dragon's StuG IV Early kit, and the Atak Zimmerit. My Dragon kit did not come with suspension mounts (the instructions showed them integral with the lower hull, but my kit had the newer lower hull ... without the associated correct suspension parts!). I chose at this time to use the Tasca Pz. IV suspension, and the Atak set did not fit correctly anymore. ..

 

Damon.

"Nicht kleckern, klötzen!"

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Thursday, May 17, 2012 6:10 PM

Ian,

Atak zimmerit is produced by a company in Poland. Here's their website: http://atakmodel.istore.pl/en/authorization/index , you can order directly from them or look for their products with various online retailers depending on your country/location if needed. It's a resin product and they don't come with specific instructions so you do need to be a little knowledgeable about the vehicle you're working on. They produce sets that are specific for certain kits so make sure you get one that's right for the kit you're looking to work on to avoid potential issues. HTH!

 

  • Member since
    November 2010
Posted by IanBeginner on Thursday, May 17, 2012 5:57 PM

Wild Bill:

I plan in the future to do some Tamiya tanks that require zimmerit and I was wondering about your use of Atak Zimmerit. What is it exactly and where can I order it online if it is something I can use?

Ian

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 5:55 PM

LOL Eric! Brenda does have the nickname of "trash compactor" as she will pick up and chew on just about anything that catches her attention. Thank goodness for rawhide bones! Wink

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:42 PM

deafpanzer

 

 wbill76:

 

http://www.bpmodels.net/Model/Brummbar/Step12.JPG

 

 

WOW!  I never thought about using dogs to create perfect battle damages like you did.  Thanks for the excellent tip!  

Great process there... Yes

Might want to submit that to the forum tips. LOL Perfect for schurzen.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:46 AM

Andy, yes indeed...her teeth approximate shell damage quite nicely but the method is a bit, shall we say, uncontrollable? Big Smile

Carl, cat's are evil...they bide their time, hatch their schemes, and then strike!

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:45 PM

Battle damage made by your dog ? I had a cat do that to a B-24 prop once ....................Super Angry

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:43 PM

wbill76

http://www.bpmodels.net/Model/Brummbar/Step12.JPG

WOW!  I never thought about using dogs to create perfect battle damages like you did.  Thanks for the excellent tip!  

Great process there... Yes

Andy

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:36 PM

Mike, yes indeed! It's my reward for good behavior during the week!

Tread, not yet...tracks are still a good way down the road but will get there eventually!

My wife had a school event this evening so I was left home alone...and decided to sneak in a little extra bench time to take advantage of the situation!

Step 8 is a prep step that assembles the side air intakes and the rear engine deck top as well as the rear plate...and then puts them all off to the side until Step 17. There's no real reason to wait that long so I went ahead and assembled the rear hull and installed it into the lower hull. The Atak set includes a replacement rear hull plate but it doesn't have the spare wheel holder parts attached to it, so those will have to be transplanted from the DML kit part later on. It's also important to note that in Step 8 the diagram isn't very clear in how the step plate over the muffler/exhaust installs...it has three L-shaped support arms that install to the back of the plate and support the plate over the exhaust. The Atak side panels were added as well at this point.

The installation into the hull in Step 17 includes the install of the rear bulkhead, the tread plate floor for the fighting compartment, and the gun mount base. The base is a 4 part affair that has to be assembled just so or it won't be possible to fit it into the hull in the correct position. You cannot assemble it outside the hull as the diagrams indicate and then install it as one piece into the hull. This is due to the way the two side supports interact with the hull...they have slots in their sides to fit into the angled "ribs" molded into the lower hull and also slots on their feet that match up with tabs on the hull floor. You have to install these first, then position the top part, D7, within the hull at a slight angle to clear the fender edges, then turn D7 to sit properly and flush on the side feet. The front support should be glued to D7 prior to doing this. It took me a couple of different attempts to figure this out, hence the glue marks on the hull floor you see in the photo.

The interior tread plate part, D6, should then install into position between the rear bulkhead and the gun mount. A test fit showed this was no problem and while my back was turned to take the photo above, my beloved boxer Brenda somehow managed to get hold of the plate. She only had it for a few seconds but the damage was done as she's a "power chewer"!

It's not a big loss as I wasn't planning to display the hatches open for the interior and this sealed it for sure if I did have any doubts otherwise!

Next up will be working on the 15cm gun assembly.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:25 PM

Well...off to a clean start....look like a good study aid for your classes Hmm

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: beacon falls , Ct.
Posted by treadwell on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:52 PM

The hull looks amazing ,Bill  :  )   .... Tracks on yet ? .......   LOL

treadCool

   

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:58 PM

Mark,

Atak zimmerit is produced by a company in Poland. Here's their website: http://atakmodel.istore.pl/en/authorization/index 

The zim they produce is resin and the panels are ultra-thin and usually come on a large single sheet that you then have to remove the panels from and attach to the model in the appropriate spot. Some type of glue is required to attach them as they are not self-adhesive. I use a combination of Gator Grip glue, Testors liquid glue, and CA gel to attach mine depending on the size of the panel and how much work time is needed to get it in place. HTH!

 

  • Member since
    April 2012
Posted by Reserve on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 5:13 PM

Lookin mighty fine, but from you I'd expect no less. This zimmerit you're using, never heard of it, does it come with a self adhesive backing? I recall when I first discovered this was put on German armor, back in the seventies it was. I chose to ignore the fact as the thought of sitting there with a tube of putty and a mustache comb upset my digestion.

As I lived in New England at the time, I took a road trip to West Haven , CT and visited War and Pieces, the hobby shop's hobby shop. Had everything one could imagine and then some. I was complaining about putty zimmerit and an older guy said to me "Why don't you just use a hot knife and scribe it in?" I did not tell him that I was too dumb to think of it on my own.

So that's how I've been modeling zimmerit for the past thirty years. Very labor intensive (but much better than putty) and time consuming. I like the looks of the product you are using, guess I need some.

Regards,

Mark 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:53 AM

Thanks Ernest! Atak is great stuff, highly recommended. Wink

Carl, thanks for dropping by as well, glad to have you along for the ride.

  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:34 AM

Hey Bill , glad i found this one , the zim looks perfect .Yes

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Monday, May 14, 2012 10:31 PM

Looking good Bill!  That Atak zim really looks like good stuff, I'll have to try it some day!

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, May 14, 2012 9:58 AM

Thanks Marc! Yes, I've used both and I've found the Atak sets to be slightly better in terms of their design and engineering. That and the fact that Atak seems to stay more current with their sets in relation to the latest kits being produced. HTH! Beer

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Monday, May 14, 2012 8:12 AM

Looks great Bill.  had that kit in my hands several times in the past.  Not quite sure why I don't have oneTongue Tied

I've never used the Atak zim, only Cavalier.  have you used both? One better than the other?

Marc  

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, May 13, 2012 9:57 PM

Thanks Tony! It was a good weekend for building and I got further than I thought I might when I started, that's always a good thing as I tend to overestimate where the progress will get to begin with! Big Smile

Andy, you knew you couldn't get away without buying something, right? Wink Appreciate the comments as always. Beer

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Sunday, May 13, 2012 9:18 PM

That's it!  I have to get that Atek set now.  It just looks great!  Yes

Andy

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Sunday, May 13, 2012 6:17 PM

Looks to be a productive weekend for you BillYes

Have a good week and we'll expect more great things out of you next weekend.Toast

Tony leeSmile

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:53 PM

Continuing on from last week, this week's efforts focused on the lower hull and suspension.

Step 4 adds the base mounts for the suspension along with the bump stops and the rear towing hooks. The Atak panels for the lower hull are provided as a large single piece and some trimming was necessary here and there to get things to fit properly but otherwise no major issues were encountered. From experience, I know that the front piece that curves over the final drive will interfere with the fenders when it comes time to install so I cut that short on purpose to head off that issue.

Step 5 returns to the hull rear and adds the idler mounts and the exhaust. The instructions provide a choice of type of idler mount and after checking reference photos I went with the parts B15/14 as those are the later style appropriate for this vehicle's production time line. The multi-part muffler was assembled and the exhaust pipe thinned out with a drill bit and some trimming with the tip of a sharp #11 blade. I had to trim the Atak panels a bit more to allow the pipe support trays to fit correctly in this area as well.

Step 6 installs the hull glacis plate and the Atak set includes a resin replacement with separate parts for the transmission/brake access hatches. Those were added using CA gel and the narrow panel for the full front plate zim added along with a little putty to round things out in that department. The glacis spare track run will get installed later after the hull is painted to make it easier to detail it at that stage.

Step 6 also calls for the road wheels and suspension elements to be installed. The road wheels were left off for now but the suspension elements were added. They have just a little bit of play to them so it's important to get them all lined up correctly so that the vehicle will sit level later on.

That brought me to Step 7 which deals with the assembly of the fenders and their installation to the hull. I added the front mud flaps first along with their zim panels, carefully trimming them to avoid the interference problem mentioned previously with the lower hull sides. The kit designers didn't build in any tolerance levels for zim interaction in these areas so the added fractional mm that the zim creates causes issues if not dealt with accordingly.

The fenders were then installed using regular glue along the hull edges where they overlap and liquid glue at the rear where they sit flush. After that had set up, I added the rear mud flaps and finally the spacer parts between the schurzen mounts. The spacer parts don't have a large surface area that they attach to so it made sense to install them after the fenders were in place to avoid them coming loose or getting skewed accidentally during the fender installation. I also did a test fit with the casemate to be sure everything was playing nice at this stage.

Next up will be the upper hull elements!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, May 8, 2012 12:24 PM

Thanks Ernest, glad to have you along for the ride! The Brummbar is one of those big, ugly brutes that has always captured my interest as well. Wink

Pj, yep, the Atak sets are worth the money IMHO in the time they save. That and the fact that they often include resin replacement parts for difficult areas that are exact copies of the kit parts but with zim added makes them a must have for kits that require zim. Nothing against the DIY crowd of course! Wink

Steve, glad to have you along as well! Beer

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