Sturmgeschutz Sdkfz. 167 Dio *finished*

That actually really does look quite good.

For the copper wire, just getting a flat clear finish would help - can you somehow spray it on?  Brown and rust coloured weathering powders could be a further option.

regards,

Jack

tigerman

That turned out very well Owl. The camo really came out cool. Couldn't tell it was brushed. I also like the figures and setting.

Have to agree with karl on the wire. Just wouldn't look copper.

thank you.

The rust paint keeps chipping off the wire. Ill re-touch it

That turned out very well Owl. The camo really came out cool. Couldn't tell it was brushed. I also like the figures and setting.

Have to agree with karl on the wire. Just wouldn't look copper.

CallSignOWL

winetanker: whats wrong with my tree?

Probably nothing. It just seems to me the long upper branch could be trimmed a little bit. 

It's the kind of thing I'd obsess over and wind up messing up

danke!

SWEEET dio Owl!!  Very nice execution!  The figures look very natural and the camo scheme of the StuG blends in naturally with the groundwork!  

thanks guys! :D

winetanker: whats wrong with my tree?

That is a fine dio Owl!! Nice groundwork and I love the bike!!!

Wow! That looks fantastic!

I wish I could figures like that.

Only thing I might do is trim that tree a little...

Fantastic work, Owl!  I particularly like how you hand painted the camo and blended it in, and the dio theme is good story telling!

Dave

Congrats on completing your first dio!

AWESOME work, Owl! That really came out so nice!

If this is your first diorama, we're all in trouble, lol!

The only thing I'd do is paint that cool wire fence you made a steel or rusty brown---the copper color is a bit too bright.

Great work!!

That's great looking stuff. I really appreciate all of the groundwork. That brings the whole thing to life... in a manner of speaking.

OWL, thats really nice work. Good dio.

final pics, YA!

Base work looks good from here, looking forward to the final shots.

I was gonna take some outside pics today, but I forgot to look at the weather last night! DOH!!

Awesome work on that dio base, Owl! Seriously, that celluclay work looks the BOMB!

And don't be afraid to just put your finger on that commander's hatch and either smoosh it right down into the opening, or pry it up and then re-glue it. You're going to want to fix that--and will wish that you did if you ever get to enter this into a contest. You'll be kicking yourself when you realize that you could have won first place!

Looks great though, otherwise! Good job getting those track marks in that mud!!

spacepacker

doog, here is a modeller better looking than you. Things are on the UP here...cheers....Kenny

T26E4

Hey Owl: Just noticed one more thing on the StuG.  The commander's hatch would have been all the way open, or sealed tight. There was no propping mechanism to leave it ajar as you have it.  The little flap could be opened to allow for the commander's twin periscope sights.

that was pointed out earlier, but since everything's all glued tight I cant change it now

Hey Owl: Just noticed one more thing on the StuG.  The commander's hatch would have been all the way open, or sealed tight. There was no propping mechanism to leave it ajar as you have it.  The little flap could be opened to allow for the commander's twin periscope sights.

shucks, guys!  

anywho, progress!

ground work, with tree, fence posts and sprinkled with dirt

Checking positions

Tank placed with grass finished.

Y'all are gonna have to wait until I get the final pics taken >:)

doog, here is a modeller better looking than you. Things are on the UP here...cheers....Kenny

CallSignOWL

Winetanker

CallSignOWL

Im actually looking at getting into museum/archive work.

ahhh...the next Indiana Jones.....dooodododo...doooododo....

Got your hat picked out???

sure do!

Now all you need is the whip!!!!!

LOL doog :P

wbill76

You've got the look! All that's missing is the bull whip......

HOTTIE ALERT!!

HOTTIE ALERT!! ....

Everyone knows that FSM has the hottest babes online! 

Nice to have a face to go with the name, CallSIgnOwl!

I thought Dr. Jones Jr's bag was a bread bag?

wbill76

You've got the look! All that's missing is the bull whip and gas mask bag.

You've got the look! All that's missing is the bull whip and gas mask bag.

Winetanker

CallSignOWL

Im actually looking at getting into museum/archive work.

ahhh...the next Indiana Jones.....dooodododo...doooododo....

Got your hat picked out???

sure do!

CallSignOWL

Im actually looking at getting into museum/archive work.

ahhh...the next Indiana Jones.....dooodododo...doooododo....

Got your hat picked out???

thanks for all the complements guys! The ground work is proceeding smoothly (even if I did make a bit of a mess!)

tigerman

Sweet. Going to be teaching then? 

Ach, noooo.

Im actually looking at getting into museum/archive work. I have an internship at the university's archives right now to gain some experience

[quote user="CallSignOWL"]

the rider looks like he's dancing to Gangam Style, lol

[/quote}

LOL!!!  Gangam Style!!!  Girl that is so true!!

and here is a quick pic of where the two vehicles will be situated on the base

[/quote]

I'm really liking that dio scene you're working on Owl.  The positioning of the two vehicles and the posture of the figures are spot on!  Good luck and keep us posted!

CallSignOWL

Im majoring in history with a minor in classics. Ill be graduating this May  :)

Sweet. Going to be teaching then? 

Geez Bill. Social Studies was always my favorite class thru to the end of high school. I was going to major in history too but it was way too popular after satellite tv and the History Channel, so I made that a hobby and majored in journalism and psych. Nice work Owl

The dio idea combining the motorcycle is a neat one CSO, and thanks for sharing your story on how you came to be a model builder! It's neat to see something like this that grabs your interest and continues to grow...many modelers start out young and then get distracted as teenagers only to return as older adults for one reason or another. The fact that you're majoring in history and about to graduate is also cool. My own BA is in Social Studies and the love of history was a big influencer in my choice of hobby as well.

Im majoring in history with a minor in classics. Ill be graduating this May  :)

Great story CSO.

What are you going to school to major in?

CallSIgnOwl, that's really very interesting. Strange, how you were the only one who stayed with the modeling club, but hey--we're glad to have you aboard here! I can't say that I know ANYONE who I grew up with who models now--or even that I had a lot of friends back then who were modelers?

I was wondering if it was some kind of family-based thing (a lot of guys here, myself included got into modeling from watching their Dads build models when they were young) or something sparked by military service?

Thanks for sharing your story!

well, my story probably isnt the most fascinating thing, but here ya go:

Ive always liked building things and making art, and with the two siblings closest in age being boys, I got attracted to more "boy" oriented activities: Legos, K'nex, dinosaurs, airplanes, blocks, making forts in the back yard....

I liked watching this one anime about Zoids (robotic fighting machines) and when I saw a kit in the store I wanted to build it. I still have all my Zoids and plan on restoring them eventually. From there... the JROTC sergeant came to talk to us in 8th grade and he mentioned the model aircraft club the JROTC hosted.Ive loved aircraft since I was little so in high school I joined the model club. Eventually the other kids that joined fell away to other activities, leaving me the sole member.

Ive been modeling ever since. Mostly planes and experimented with the different techniques I saw on the forum and in the magazine. After seeing all the cool looking tank models I decided to try my hand at armor modeling. Eventually I bought my first tank kit (the Tamiya M41) and now, here I am!

So Ive been modeling for almost.... 8 years now.  Wow.

WOW, that bike looks great!

And I can see where you fixed the wheels----good girl!

BTW, it would be really interesting to myself and I'm sure the rest of the boys here to hear how you became a modeler? I mean, it's not like we have many girls in the hobby--especially in Armor?! I can remember one girl in the Syracuse area who was really quite a good Armor modeler, but beyond that,.....none other.

Tell us your story, Owl---how'd you get into Armor modeling, of all things?

Yup, Im a girl :P

Thanks for all those suggestoins. Ill keep them in mind when I do my next tank build

I dont have base pix uploaded yet, but Im liking how it is turning out, especially sense this is my first crack at this sort of thing. Here are some WIPs of the little motorcycle I have though!

so many little pieces on this thing. Its pretty well detailed

the rider looks like he's dancing to Gangam Style, lol

and here is a quick pic of where the two vehicles will be situated on the base

Hi Owl,

I must say - this a really, REALLY good build and what great cammo for a first attempt! A lot of peoples first builds are not a patch on this. I'm not just saying this - if it was a horror you'd receive pointers and encouragement and the incorrect parts would be pointed out - that's how I learnt, by posting my builds on here too. You have really done well here

As Doog said just sort them inner wheels out where it's showing white and you'll be going great.

Super job on the tracks too, lovely saggy tracks!

I'm sure I recall doog mentioning that you were a girl? Is that right? If so that's great as we need more lasses coming into the hobby. They are definately few and far between!

I reckon, for your next build, try Tamiya's StuG III Ausf B. You'll be able to try some new methods and won't have to worry about cammo as it was an early German piece painted in flat German Panzer Grey. If you want to try a proper tank with a turret then I'd definately go Tamiya and look at their 35t or 38t - in my opinion. Not so many wheels and again, no cammo scheme!

Great work - keep it up! The figure is very good too! You obviously have 'the eye'!

Take care,

Ben

Very nice effort. Just goes to show you that fine results can be made from brush-painting.

Definitely made some strides with this one CSO! Tackling the world of figures is always a different challenge and you've got your feet wet. Nothing much to add to what the others have pointed out except in the area of the periscopes. WWII periscopes were simple prism affairs encased in an early form of plastic called Bakelite. As a result the faces were clear and the bodies were usually a dark red-brown or black color. The rabbit ears scope in the commander's hatch poked up through a small flap hatch so the main hatch could remain closed instead of angled like you have yours. Also, the fire extinguishers housed on the outside of the vehicle were hull color and not red (we think of all FE's as being red because of modern influences!). Just some detail info for your next project to keep in mind. Look forward to seeing you continue your adventures in armor model building!

Owl: just 3 more pointers. The antennae were 2m long -- or about 57mm in 1/35 scale. Also I noticed your muzzle brake (or I guess the kit's entire gun barrel) needs to be turned 90 degrees. The openings were to the side, not up and down.

Finally, snip the pistol holster from the loader's leg.  That would only have been attached to a belt on the hips -- since your fig isn't wearing one, a holster wouldn't have hung off his leg like that.  Hope this helps.

Winetanker

Looks good, Owl. the first tanks I did didn't look half that good.

I'm not sure, but besides the wheels, I think those periscopes sticking out the hatch should be painted.

the periscopes are painted. I colored them steel but with the flash the color got washed out.

Looks good, Owl. the first tanks I did didn't look half that good.

I'm not sure, but besides the wheels, I think those periscopes sticking out the hatch should be painted.

Cool beans, OWL---- looking forward to seeing the corrected pics!

Thanks guys!

And Doog, the cable is steel. With the tan filter and camera flash, it looks tan in the photos. But is is steel colored.  I just corrected the wheels though. And thanks for pointing out the antenna differences. That was something I did not know

Well, it looks pretty darned good! But CSO, get in there and paint those wheel interiors!!!--you can plainly see that bare gray plastic in between your road wheels. That won't do. It's quite noticeable! They could be painted in either primer red or base color, or some people would paint them in a "lowlighting" color, like dark brown, like a shadow.

Also, good for you for at least attempting the figure. He came out fine. He'll give you a nice sense of scale. And the track sag looks spot-on!

Have to say, the brush painting really worked out quite well with the weathering! The overall finish looks pretty good! A few things though, besides the wheels--the fire extinguishers are not red; they're the same base color as the tank, and German antennas were rod-straight--not "whippy" like US antennas. And the "rope" should be steel--that's a cable, not rope. Of course, it's up to you what you want to change, but these are things that should be pointed out if you want to start fine-tuning things.

Don't worry about all the wheels--Dragon regularly has a bunch of extra parts in the box that you never use. Read your parts sprues more accurately to see what parts you really need. In some of these kits, you'll waste a lot of glue and time putting stuff together that you don't need for that particular kit. his is because Dragon uses the same sprues for a lot of their "variant" kits; late type, early type, different "aufsrung", etc. Leave those parts on the sprues, and keep 'em for later projects---you may need different sprockets, for instance, in a later build, or may want to use them in a diorama setting.

Wow Owl- most impressive. Can't wait to see this on the completed base and with the shields on!

and here is what the tank looks like all finished up, minus the shields! :)

(the flash made things look a little wonky)

alright! I got a bunch of progress done on my build and am ready to start the base. But before I do, WIP pix!

After painting the tracks black, I gave them a wash of burnt sienna to give a "rust" flavor, then applied a light wash of tan and sprinkled with dirt to give the tracks a dirty appearance

I also ended up with a bunch of extra wheels. Why? I dont know....

I also painted up my little tank guy. I dont have much experience with figure painting...

Ill stop here so there is not so may pics on this one post

CTD there should be a LIKE button on here

Winetanker

Nice work, Owl.

It's hard to get those 'feathered' edges without an airbrush.

Back in the 'old days', before I even knew what an airbrush was, I got great feathered edge-effect by cutting my camo patterns out of a 3X5 card and holding it just off the surface of the model while I painted it with a spray can.  You kids have it easy these days!! 

Nice work, especially when you consider it's all brush work.  Keep it up!

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

Yup--that's it. I just call it "clay" for short.

thanks for the help, the order of when to add stuff is just what I needed.

Basically, yes---embed the rocks in the clay while its still wet--and don't forget to press in track marks from your model too, like, behind it where it would have driven. It looks pretty silly when you don't have tracks behind where a 20 ton vehicle just rolled!

The whole "rocks" thin depends on your terrain. If you're modeling your vehicle in a gsrasy field, it's not so important. But of you're on mixed ground, put in some rocks.

Yep. Rubble and rocks and stuff, you add while wet so that they are a little embedded into the "ground". This avoids the "big rocks on a driveway" look. Grass, topsoil and leaves can go on top without looking out of place though.

Nice work on the handpainted ambush camo, very impressive.  

I did look at the tutorials, except in the sturmtiger you added rubble and such when the celluclay was still wet, but on the hetzer, it sounded like you added the grass and such with glue after the celluclay was dry. Which is why I was asking for clarification  

Yeah, DEFINTELY seal the base!! Otherwise, it may warp. You can use a spray lacquer, like Dullcoat, but to be honest, with the price of that stuff, you'd be better off to go get a big can of sealing lacquer at a discount chain, and use that. You should seal it with at least two heavy coats just to be sure.

The cheap paint is fine. Mix it in-it helps a lot in not having to paint the whole thing, although you may want to anyway for color variation and texture. And any kind of latex gloves are fine.

Seriously, take a look at that link I sent you of the base tutorial. And look again at the one of my Sturmtiger--you can see how the Celluclay is mixed in the one container on the right >>>

the doog

That's the stuff!!!

A word of advice---DON'T ADD TOO MUCH WATER! And cut the water needed in half by also adding acrylic paint to tint the clay. Use cheap craft store-type paint. AND, and white glue at the same time. The more water-based glue and paint you add, and the less water you use, the less it is prone to shrink or "lift" off the base.

Add a small bit of water, paint, and glue together, and mix it up with your hands (wear one of those rubber gloves you can get at auto shops in bulk). It should be the consistency of like, thick oatmeal--if you've ever microwaved it too long, that's what I"m talking about.

Remember--the less water, the less shrinkage and the quicker it dries.

awesome. Glad I got the correct stuff. I bought some 68 cent brown paint, is that good? I also have some random acrylic paints I can use too. Can you use regular latex gloves? I know where to get a bunch for free.

Do you need to seal the wooden base? If so, what should I use? I have dull-coat lacquer...

when do you add the grass and trees and sticks and rocks and stuff? When its dry and you poke it in, or when its still wet?

That's the stuff!!!

A word of advice---DON'T ADD TOO MUCH WATER! And cut the water needed in half by also adding acrylic paint to tint the clay. Use cheap craft store-type paint. AND, and white glue at the same time. The more water-based glue and paint you add, and the less water you use, the less it is prone to shrink or "lift" off the base.

Add a small bit of water, paint, and glue together, and mix it up with your hands (wear one of those rubber gloves you can get at auto shops in bulk). It should be the consistency of like, thick oatmeal--if you've ever microwaved it too long, that's what I"m talking about.

Remember--the less water, the less shrinkage and the quicker it dries.

I found  CelluClay and it's described instant paper mache--just add water. Is that the right stuff?

the doog

CallSignOwl,

Here's a base tutorial I did using Celluclay----NOT "milliput". I never use Miliput for bases. Celluclay is readily available at any "chain" hobby store---AC Moore's, Michael's, etc.

BASE TUTORIAL LINK

This should give you an idea of where to start. It's pretty "standard fare" for a dio base. I think the way you mentioned with the picture frame and plaster, etc, is more work,and neither as stable, nor durable.

haha, oops! that would make a difference. Ill check the local art store for the stuff (The big box store is about an hour away as the crow walks) . Ill check the random antique store around here to see if I cant find a cheap plaque base. I dont want to spend more than I have to at the trophy shop.....(plenty of plaque bases there, but expensive!)

CallSignOwl,

Here's a base tutorial I did using Celluclay----NOT "milliput". I never use Miliput for bases. Celluclay is readily available at any "chain" hobby store---AC Moore's, Michael's, etc.

BASE TUTORIAL LINK

This should give you an idea of where to start. It's pretty "standard fare" for a dio base. I think the way you mentioned with the picture frame and plaster, etc, is more work,and neither as stable, nor durable.

Winetanker

Do you see Karl's aka the doog's little tutorial on building a base in his Sturmtiger thread???

yeah, but I dont have a plaque big enough for a 1/35 tank and motorcycle, nor do I have milliput handy.  I can get a lot of supplies at teh campus store, but milliput isnt one of them. Plaster is, however. And foamcore

Do you see Karl's aka the doog's little tutorial on building a base in his Sturmtiger thread???

Im doing some detail work right now and it dawned on me that the figure looks like he is leaning out to talk to someone. That means he needs someone to talk to! I have a German motorcycle kit with a rider that I can fashion up pretty quickly, but Im thinking that this is turning into a little diorama!

So, brainstorm. Im thinking I can make a basic base out of an old picture frame, foam core and some plaster. Scrounge up some twigs and dirt and I can make myself a little scene. Now Ive never done a dio before so Im gonna need a bit of help.

(hint hint) :P

Winetanker

Nice work, Owl.

It's hard to get those 'feathered' edges without an airbrush.

Coming along nicely Owl, good work on the hand painted camo!

Winetanker

Nice work, Owl.

It's hard to get those 'feathered' edges without an airbrush.

yeah it is. The edges will become more indistinct once I add the filters and washes

Nice work, Owl.

It's hard to get those 'feathered' edges without an airbrush.

I wasn't critiquing your work Owl. Don't think that 'cause I'm really not in the position to offer much advice. I'm just saying that its something that can be overdone. Looking at all the old photos available you can tell what tracked vehicles generally had more slack than others due to their design, and those old photos are about the best reference to start with.

Great work BTW, especially on the camo. I'm glad you like the painting and weathering process. More often than not that takes the wind right out of my sails. Can't wait to see this when you're finished.

Nice job on the hand-painted camo. Looks all set for the weathering!

Nice!

speaking of my current build, Ive started the painting process. No airbrush for me right now,  so this is gonna be hand-painted.

The three basic colors are on, but are not a garish as they appear in the photo. The flash really saturated the colors. They were lightened when I added the blending

blending and lightening complete!

how it looks with the shields (which are just hanging there for picture's sake)

next is weathering....yay!

novembergray

One thing I'd say Owl is to be careful not to overdo the sag in your tracks, which I think a lot of guys do. There's not a lot that's more important to a crew in the field than maintaining their track tension and other maintenance. The reason for that is too much slack or a bad track bearing will cause the vehicle to throw the track and a tank without a track is pretty much just a gun emplacement. Also, too much slack wears out the bearings and that takes you back to the same issue of a thrown track. It doesn't really matter if your track breaks or if it's thrown off the sprocket, you still have to put it back on. I know it wasn't much fun replacing a link or dropping a complete track on concrete in our motor pool where we had the rest of the platoon to help with it. I certainly wouldn't want to do it in 30 degrees and a foot of mud with only 4 men and I'm sure nobody else would either.

thanks for the info November. Ill keep it mind for future builds. As of now, the tracks on this build are all  formed

T26E4

From the horse's mouth, here's a transcript of an interview I conducted several years ago w/Wolfgang Kloth, a tank commander who served in Pz IIIs, IVs and StuG IIIs.  He discusses the AT rifles, thrown tracks and all sorts of other good stuff

www.amps-armor.org/.../bbsDetail.aspx

(I recommend everyone read it!)

From the horse's mouth, here's a transcript of an interview I conducted several years ago w/Wolfgang Kloth, a tank commander who served in Pz IIIs, IVs and StuG IIIs.  He discusses the AT rifles, thrown tracks and all sorts of other good stuff

www.amps-armor.org/.../bbsDetail.aspx

One thing I'd say Owl is to be careful not to overdo the sag in your tracks, which I think a lot of guys do. There's not a lot that's more important to a crew in the field than maintaining their track tension and other maintenance. The reason for that is too much slack or a bad track bearing will cause the vehicle to throw the track and a tank without a track is pretty much just a gun emplacement. Also, too much slack wears out the bearings and that takes you back to the same issue of a thrown track. It doesn't really matter if your track breaks or if it's thrown off the sprocket, you still have to put it back on. I know it wasn't much fun replacing a link or dropping a complete track on concrete in our motor pool where we had the rest of the platoon to help with it. I certainly wouldn't want to do it in 30 degrees and a foot of mud with only 4 men and I'm sure nobody else would either.

Also, think when they were introduced and where: 1943 Eastern Front

The myth of the schurzen's purpose has been around a long time but through the scholarly work of Tom Laemlin, he traced where that theory first arose.  It was a false attribution by a US General officer -- not corroborated by German documents or post war tests or Germans themselves.  Like Tigerman said, they were used to defeat AT rifle bullets.  Besides the Pz III and Pz IV shurzen, look at where they were mounted on other vehicles -- the area between the Panther's tracks and its side upper armor, the gap on the Hetzers, the gap on the Tiger IIs.  All of those areas were susceptible to AT Rifle penetration -- thus the designers' mounting skirting to protect them.

Huh...so AT rifles weren't totally useless; as I had thought...

Russians didn't use hollow-round or shaped charge at the time Schurzen were introduced. AT rifles were wide-spread and deadly at short ranges...particularly against the thinner armor of lower hulls and sides  on the different vehicles...hence the reason for turret schurzen on Pz III and IV but not on Panthers for example even though Panthers got hull schurzen. 5mm plates were sufficient to cause AT rifle rounds to 'tumble' after penetration and prevent entering the main hull or turret. Plates were frequently replaced and reference photos exist of vehicles sporting plates with different camo patterns...clearly a case of battlefield scavenging expediency.

Nice StuG Owl!! I really like all the extra work you are putting into it!

Bish, I'm not aware that they did. They may have received bazookas thru the lend-lease, but I can't recall any photos of them. I have seen them use captured panzer-schrecks.

Eric, i was reading that today, i think it was on Panzer world. Sort of make sense given that the Soviets, as far as i know, didn't have bazooka's. But i am not sure if they had shaped charges or not.

CapnMac82

The purpose of skirting (schurzen) was to cope with low-velocity shaped-charge weapons.  

thanks guys!  :)

Nice work Owl, she's looking good. Nice work on the thinner schurzen. I like the retaining brackets for the spare track on the glacis - good attention to details.

Winetanker

 

What color should the inside of the schurzen be?

Would there be  camo underneath the schurzen? 

The photos that do show the inside of Schurzen seem to show a light colour, so i would go for yellow. This is certainly the case on museum examples. And no, there wouldn't be any camo on there.

Great work OWL, you have really been biten by the armour bug.

The purpose of skirting (schurzen) was to cope with low-velocity shaped-charge weapons.  

So, the plates needed to be thick enough to set off the fuses on those weapons, but not so heavy as to bog the AFV down with additional weight.

So, the edges & bottoms of the skirts probably caught on all sorts of things.  As a guess, the Battalion or Regimental Trains probably did not have "spares" of the skirts in stock.  However, company/battalion level maintenance units would be able to weld/bolt the hanger brackets on whatever sheet steel was handy.  Which would get the paint available at that depot.

The paint availability and the crew sensitivity to hostile forces probably defined how good and complete a paint job that represented in the field.  I cannot recall if the Soviets had that sort of thing (my brain wants to remember RPG-4 being '46).  Now, the US forces would have 2.3" bazooka in later years; the Brits had the PIAT right through the war.  Either of those would leave a 1-2 cm hole in th eskirt, and a serious char mark behind that.

So, probably they ought to look much like a beat-up car fender, rather than anything shot-up  Although a near-miss would leave some scars--but modeling those in context could be tough.

And, it's a good model so far, and the replaced skirts are very light like they ought be.

That's my 2¢; you'll need another $4 for a happy meal.

the doog

iraqiwildman

Also if your going to use the side skirts, you might want just install the tracks before painting, since the majority of them will be hidden behind the skirts. On my last two soviet tanks, I have installed the tracks before painting, paint them black when pre-shading, tape off most of the tracks and then paint the road wheels. I saved a lot of time painting and weathering parts of the track that will never been seen.

Just something to consider---when you do that, you can't really properly weather the guide horns on the tracks, nor can you really do the path where the wheels themselves weather and shine up the track face inside. The guide horns should be silvered from wear, and the path where the wheels actually contact the inside of the track should be a metallic gray,

Look at how the inside of this Leopard 2 track is worn by the rubber wheels. This is something that a lot of modelers miss.

Owl, fine work on all the scratched schurzen and tow cables.

Karl would the Schurzen panels  be a unlightend shade (basically out of the warehouse) of the basecoat being replacement panels?

 And would it be possible to model the Stug IV with weathered panels and unweathered panels? That is something I haven't really seen done before here but might be really plausible due to the frequent replacement of Schurzen panels.

the doog

That looks great, Owl. Looks like you got the track method down perfectly! The tape, the sag, all of it--I even think I see those return rollers done up right?

Good one on the springs, and the new schurzen look great.

Oh yeah, and that cable is rockin'!

Now, with paint---I admit this is a personal peeve of mine, but it really makes a difference; don't shoot your Dark Yellow straight out of the bottle. Lighten it by at LEAST 50%. It's too dark out of the bottle--it's much more realistic to lighten it up--especially as you start to add washes. which will only darken your base coat.

Great detail work Owl!  Good call on the tow cables....molded plastic just doesn't cut it in my book!  I see you used Karl's track method perfectly, even down to the tissue paper sag!!  Fender springs, unditching logs....you're really going to town with this Stug!

thanks doog! Means a lot coming from you! :)

I'm not going to be able to use my airbrush in this one, though. Im not to sure abut air compressors being allowed in dorm-rooms, you see. So it will be a hand-brushed affair using the little Testors enamel jars, and mixes there-of.

That looks great, Owl. Looks like you got the track method down perfectly! The tape, the sag, all of it--I even think I see those return rollers done up right?

Good one on the springs, and the new schurzen look great.

Oh yeah, and that cable is rockin'!

Now, with paint---I admit this is a personal peeve of mine, but it really makes a difference; don't shoot your Dark Yellow straight out of the bottle. Lighten it by at LEAST 50%. It's too dark out of the bottle--it's much more realistic to lighten it up--especially as you start to add washes. which will only darken your base coat.

wbill76

.

wbill76

.

recessed?! Gah! I just got done gluing on itty bitty circles on them! arg

Very nice work fabricating those schurzen plates and hangers! I wouldn't worry too much about the bolt heads...they are tiny in-scale and  recessed to boot...so once you paint and weather they would be virtually invisible.

bolt heads...!

CallSignOWL

Thanks for all the suggestions and tips! Im moving right along with the Sturm

I added some scratch built springs

And have completed the tracks

(one of the wheels got glued to the track, oops)

I also fabricated new shield panels

much thinner than the kit pieces

NEXT IS PAINT!!

Don't forget to add the bolt heads to the shurzen since the hangers would have been bolted on.

oh, yeah. I also used the kit pieces for my own link cable because I dindt like the kit supplied one

Thanks for all the suggestions and tips! Im moving right along with the Sturm

I added some scratch built springs

And have completed the tracks

(one of the wheels got glued to the track, oops)

I also fabricated new shield panels

much thinner than the kit pieces

NEXT IS PAINT!!

CallSignOWL

does this look like teh correct kind of damage these shields would get? Ive only done two panels as a test, and kinda like the way they turned out. Should every panel be beat up a bit?

and since we are on the subject a coupla questions Owl would probably get around to asking....

What color should the inside of the schurzen be?

Would there be  camo underneath the schurzen? 

Looking good so far Owl!

Joe, yeah, I do do that. I guess I'm a stickler for details! Honestly, I think that tracks are where a lot of modelers fall flat in their thoroughness and attention. Too many guys lump on the pigments or rust the tracks to death, not realizing that an operational tank has more steel showing than rust.

That green is made by several companies. I think Tamiya has a color close to it called "Sky"? But I know that someone else makes "Interior Green". If not, just mix it up yourself. It's not hard; I mix many of my own colors.

That's a good point Karl. Do you normally do that? I'd think part of it would be lost relating to proximity. Looking at a AFV at 20 yards there are a lot of things you'd miss. I imagine this is one of those lines between artistry and realism that crop up from time to time, like nobody making that godawful ugly camo scheme from Panzer colors (take your pick). I wish I could go back to my army days for one last trip to the motor pool to have a look-see. I was much more interested in the relics on Kelly Hill than I was our 981. It seems to me the guides were pretty pourous but the insides of the tracks not nearly so much.

On that subject, does anyone make that putrid interior green the army uses? I've got an Academy 981 I have to do sometime.

thanks for all the suggestions!

Ive started fabricating the shields out of thin plasticard I have and have made good progress on track assembly. I should have update pics soon!

iraqiwildman

Also if your going to use the side skirts, you might want just install the tracks before painting, since the majority of them will be hidden behind the skirts. On my last two soviet tanks, I have installed the tracks before painting, paint them black when pre-shading, tape off most of the tracks and then paint the road wheels. I saved a lot of time painting and weathering parts of the track that will never been seen.

Look at how the inside of this Leopard 2 track is worn by the rubber wheels. This is something that a lot of modelers miss.

Also if your going to use the side skirts, you might want just install the tracks before painting, since the majority of them will be hidden behind the skirts. On my last two soviet tanks, I have installed the tracks before painting, paint them black when pre-shading, tape off most of the tracks and then paint the road wheels. I saved a lot of time painting and weathering parts of the track that will never been seen.

There is a How To video on FSM website about assembling indy track links. It's under the "Video" link on top of this page.

Phil_H

Just another point on the schurzen. What's provided in the kit is significantly thicker than what it should be. In real life, these plates were about 5mm thick. At your option, you could separate the panels and use them as patterns to cut new panels from some thin plastic card (0.01"?) . It would look much better, though then you would have to fabricate some retaining brackets to catch the hanger rails and hooks.

You could also cheat and sand/file the inside edges of the kit parts thinner, though this obviously doesn't look anywhere near as good.

OR, make your replacements out of thin aluminum or lead sheet.  Nick up the bottom and such, and paint and weather.  I have an old Tamiya kit that I stopped work on many years (decades) ago, and I keep thinking of trying that trick out on it.  Keep up the great work!

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

novembergray

For calling you a dude

haha, no problem . I think Im the only girl on here, sooo....

For calling you a dude

Phil_H

Just another point on the schurzen. What's provided in the kit is significantly thicker than what it should be. In real life, these plates were about 5mm thick. At your option, you could separate the panels and use them as patterns to cut new panels from some thin plastic card (0.01"?) . It would look much better, though then you would have to fabricate some retaining brackets to catch the hanger rails and hooks.

Ah, good idea, I might have to do that.

novembergray

Sorry Owl

...sorry for what?

Just another point on the schurzen. What's provided in the kit is significantly thicker than what it should be. In real life, these plates were about 5mm thick. At your option, you could separate the panels and use them as patterns to cut new panels from some thin plastic card (0.01"?) . It would look much better, though then you would have to fabricate some retaining brackets to catch the hanger rails and hooks.

You could also cheat and sand/file the inside edges of the kit parts thinner, though this obviously doesn't look anywhere near as good.

Sorry Owl

Karl has got you going in the right direction!  The Stug is looking great, I'm really looking forward to that ambush camo scheme...one of these days I'll have to try it myself.

wing_nut

THIS is where I learned to do them.

Oh yeah!  That's what we call here on FSM the "Doog Track Method"!  Ya gotta read the instructions though!! .  You can always look up more of Karl's great tutorials on FSM forums!

BTW, my kit is #1332.  The box art and sprues are nearly identical.  Your's is probably a newer release with indy tracks.   Had I known.....

the doog

Owl,

First, that guy would look good in an Italian camo shirt. That is a camo shirt he's wearing, and the pants too. You can do it in a number of different patterns including captured Italian material.

The shield---"Schurzen"--yes, they were separate panels, and often just fell off. As far as the damage, NO! They wouldn't really sustain that kind of damage,. They were just relatively thin sheets of steel, and were designed to break the charge of a shell. But they "hung" on the vehicle, ()  and would most likely fall off or be discarded if there was that amount of damage. You wouldn't want that shield there fouling the tracks or damaging the wheels. A small sample of bullet holes, or even a glancing small, penetrating hole would be more realistic, but not what you've got there, unfortunately. You can leave that one off though. You'd often see these schurzen missing.

great info! Thanks for the help!

Owl,

First, that guy would look good in an Italian camo shirt. That is a camo shirt he's wearing, and the pants too. You can do it in a number of different patterns including captured Italian material.

The shield---"Schurzen"--yes, they were separate panels, and often just fell off. As far as the damage, NO! They wouldn't really sustain that kind of damage,. They were just relatively thin sheets of steel, and were designed to break the charge of a shell. But they "hung" on the vehicle, ()  and would most likely fall off or be discarded if there was that amount of damage. You wouldn't want that shield there fouling the tracks or damaging the wheels. A small sample of bullet holes, or even a glancing small, penetrating hole would be more realistic, but not what you've got there, unfortunately. You can leave that one off though. You'd often see these schurzen missing.

the doog

CallSignOWL

the doog

CallSIgnOwl, that StuG IV is he perfect tank to apply that method I used in the tutorial--make sure you don't glue on the return rollers--the little wheels on the top row. That will help you to remove the tracks after they've solidified, and make it easy to reapply them after they're painted.  

but what if I was a dummkopf and glued on the little return rollers already?  

Uh....oops....didn't read through the article, did ya? lol.

Hmm,....well, did you use a lot of glue? Can you pry them off? Seriously, it would be the best thing to do, if you want to learn this technique. It would make things a lot easier.

If not, I would literally clip off the outside roller.  That would leave you with one "inside" roller glued on. Clean up the remaining stub so that it's smooth on both the remaining attached inside roller, and the clipped-off outside wheel. Then make your tracks, form them on the remaining roller, get your "sag", etc---and then re-apply the tracks.

THEN, add the outside return rollers. Add a small length of round sprue--you could simply pare it off of a piece of thinner round sprue--and use it for a replacement "axle", so to speak---and simply super-glue them onto the wheels and then in place, using the track itself as an additional attachment point. I seriously doubt anyone would even know that you'd repaired it so.

thanks for the help! ......I actually had them glued before I read the article. Chalk that one up to experience I guess!

alright, first question:

Did this guy wear a specific uniform? A special Camo pattern?

Second, where the shields separate panels, or all together like in teh kit. Ive seen photos where a panel or two are missing, so.....?

Thirdly, does this look like teh correct kind of damage these shields would get? Ive only done two panels as a test, and kinda like the way they turned out. Should every panel be beat up a bit?

fourthly, what kind of stowage went on these things? Ive seen images where some tanks had logs on them. Would this be appropriate for my tank?

CallSignOWL

the doog

CallSIgnOwl, that StuG IV is he perfect tank to apply that method I used in the tutorial--make sure you don't glue on the return rollers--the little wheels on the top row. That will help you to remove the tracks after they've solidified, and make it easy to reapply them after they're painted.  

but what if I was a dummkopf and glued on the little return rollers already?  

Hmm,....well, did you use a lot of glue? Can you pry them off? Seriously, it would be the best thing to do, if you want to learn this technique. It would make things a lot easier.

If not, I would literally clip off the outside roller.  That would leave you with one "inside" roller glued on. Clean up the remaining stub so that it's smooth on both the remaining attached inside roller, and the clipped-off outside wheel. Then make your tracks, form them on the remaining roller, get your "sag", etc---and then re-apply the tracks.

THEN, add the outside return rollers. Add a small length of round sprue--you could simply pare it off of a piece of thinner round sprue--and use it for a replacement "axle", so to speak---and simply super-glue them onto the wheels and then in place, using the track itself as an additional attachment point. I seriously doubt anyone would even know that you'd repaired it so.

OK, here it goes!

Obligatory box/sprue shot (the indy links are the black sprues)

first things first...wheels! Lots of Wheels!

the kit built up quickly, only taking me an afternoon to get it all put together

BUT! There was another void on this kit too. Gotta patch that up.

NEXT: The questions! Dun dun dun.....

the doog

CallSIgnOwl, that StuG IV is he perfect tank to apply that method I used in the tutorial--make sure you don't glue on the return rollers--the little wheels on the top row. That will help you to remove the tracks after they've solidified, and make it easy to reapply them after they're painted.  

but what if I was a dummkopf and glued on the little return rollers already?  

CallSIgnOwl, that StuG IV is he perfect tank to apply that method I used in the tutorial--make sure you don't glue on the return rollers--the little wheels on the top row. That will help you to remove the tracks after they've solidified, and make it easy to reapply them after they're painted.  

Remember also to check the directionality of your tracks. On the Pz.IV family, the raised cleat "leads" the shoe -  the thick edge with the cleat comes first.

Many a modeller has put the tracks backwards on a Pz.IV chassis. Not hard to correct with vinyl tracks, but rather difficult with indies.

wing_nut

THIS is where I learned to do them.

thanks Wing_Nut, that is exactly what I needed! :D

THIS is where I learned to do them.

bufflehead

Hey Owl, which Academy Sturmgeschutz Sd.167 are you building?  I thought I had the same kit in the stash, since you mentioned an ambush scheme.   This is the Academy Sturmgeschutz Sd.167 I have.  It has an ambush camo scheme on the box art, but it has vinyl tracks, not indy links:

 

kit number 13235? If so, thats the kit. But mine has 4 extra black sprues of individual links, and no vinyl

Joe's suggestion on how to work with the individual track links pretty much sums up how to do them and it's a lot easier once you get start on it. Worst comes to worst, you have some side skirts to hide a fairly large section of the upper track run.

Hey Owl, which Academy Sturmgeschutz Sd.167 are you building?  I thought I had the same kit in the stash, since you mentioned an ambush scheme.   This is the Academy Sturmgeschutz Sd.167 I have.  It has an ambush camo scheme on the box art, but it has vinyl tracks, not indy links:

With a panzer IV chassis I usually start with 99 or 100 track blocks per side. I try to clean them up in shifts, doing 10-20 or so at a time to avoid getting too irked with them. I believe it's better to have a couple too many on a side than too few because I find it easier to take a block or two off than it is to add one. Take your time and it'll come together. There were a couple of pretty good tutorials posted on this forum for how it's done. I don't know if they're still up or not. Good luck.

Shawn M.

Owl, I've been a fan of your aviation work, looking forward to seeing you tackle a Tank.

Joe, assuming this is the same CallSignOwl your comment should be "dont whig out girl"

same ol girl, up!

This will actually be my third tank. The links to my first two are here:  http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/152044.aspx

and here: http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/147388.aspx

Owl, I've been a fan of your aviation work, looking forward to seeing you tackle a Tank.

Joe, assuming this is the same CallSignOwl your comment should be "dont whig out girl"

Don't whig out man. The indy links are pretty cool. Use a slow drying glue so you have time to work them into the slack positions you want. Make sure you square them up against a straight edge. Doog had some good points in one of his tutorials he sent me. A lot of guys are down on the rubber tracks but they're not bad if you have an extra few links to add in to them to give you a little slack for a realistic appearance. But on a Pz Kpfw IV there's not much need even on a J chassis. The older guys will have good input too, better than mine.