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Identify This!!! 1.0

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  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Monday, March 9, 2009 6:49 AM
 I do believe that she may be HMS Warrior.

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Monday, March 9, 2009 8:50 AM
The bow doesn't look right for HMS Warrior or HMS Black Prince, and this must be a later ship.  The combination clipper and ram bow is pretty unique, so initially I would say it was a 'Lord Cyde' class,  HMS Lord Warden, which differed from HMS Lord Clyde, which had a standard ram bow.  But looking at the number of yards on the masts, I would have to say that this is in fact HMS Bellerophon!
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: The green shires of England
Posted by GeorgeW on Monday, March 9, 2009 10:06 AM
Bellerophon is correct, her last commission as Flagship of the North American and West Indies station. She had a main battery of 8 inch breech loading guns.
  • Member since
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  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Monday, March 9, 2009 11:26 AM

Since we are on about ironclads, here's another one!

What is the name of this ship, and what 'first' is it known for?

  • Member since
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  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:29 AM
Here's the first hint:  It was built in one country for another country, and the country it was built in is France......
  • Member since
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  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:43 AM
Still no thoughts?  Alright, here is the last hint (and it should be a giveaway!); the ship is Spanish.....
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Norfolk, UK
Posted by RickF on Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:05 AM

You're right, searat, that last clue was a giveaway! She's the Spanish ironclad Numancia, built at La Seyne in 1863 and the first ironclad warship to circumnavigate the globe, under Casto Méndez Núñez (1865-68).

Rick

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:10 AM

Hooray!!!  Nothin' like a little joggle of the mind to get a straightforward answer to a straightforward question!  Here's a print of the ship as completed, and the next question is yours!

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Norfolk, UK
Posted by RickF on Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:57 PM

Lovely print, searat. Here's another beautiful ship

 

One of a class of 13 RN ships, she was launched in 1889, converted into a minesweeper in 1909 and lost in a collision in the Firth of Clyde in 1918. Class, type and name?

Rick

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:20 PM
 She would be the torpedo gunboat HMS Seagull. She was launched at Chatham Drydock on 31/05/1889 and converted to a minesweeper in 1909. She was involved in a collision with a merchant vessel on the 30/09/1918 and subsequently sank. 

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Norfolk, UK
Posted by RickF on Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:49 AM

Spot on, surfsup. Did I give too many clues? First time on this thread. Currently researching her sister-ship Spanker -  wonderful name - with a view to a 1:48 model. Anyway - your go.

Rick

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Monday, March 16, 2009 4:23 AM

OK. I won't show any Photos of this particular vessel as it would be a dead giveaway. Of a class of four vessels, only one was launched. she was a well known warship from WW2.   By the way, She never survived the war. What was the class leader, What were the other Three Ships projected Names and what year did this vessel meet her demise. A small clue. The three uncompleted ships names, were allocated to vessels during WW2 except one  . Two of them were from the same class of Ship, and fairly large Ships too. 

And hooray for me, I finally got a right answer. Maybe one less clue would have made it more interesting Rick. And The Spanker would make an interesting display piece. Have fun doing the research and the build.Make a Toast [#toast]

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Monday, March 16, 2009 9:18 AM
I believe you are thinking of HMS Hood,  sunk 24 May, 1941, and her projected sisterships 'Howe, 'Anson,' and Rodney,' which names were allocated to battleships which subsequently served in WW2, and of course 'Rodney' was built before the war.....
  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: brisbane australia
Posted by surfsup on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 4:38 AM
 You are quite correct searat12. Anson and Howe were sister ships of the KG5 class of WW2. Am passing the Baton to you for the next question. 

If i was your wife, i'd poison your tea! If Iwas your husband, I would drink it! WINSTON CHURCHILL

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:05 AM

Right!  This next warship is one of the most famous of the 20th century, with 'kills' in the North Atlantic, South Atlantic, South Pacific, and elsewhere.  Because of his skills, the even more famous commander of this ship was essentially the only one in the navy qualified to command the ship, which at one time was even hunted by one of the survivor ships of a great naval disaster.  So famous was this ship, that there is to this day a harbor named after it, and its exploits and those of its commander still rate as one of the great war records and tales of 'high adventure' to this day.

What is the name of the ship, and what is the name of its commander?

  • Member since
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  • From: Moorefield, WV
Posted by billydelawder on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:40 PM
Was it the Emden? under the command of captain von muller
  • Member since
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  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:13 PM
Nope!  Try again!
  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:14 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 

SMS Seeadler with Graf Luckner???

But is there a harbour named Seeadler?

Edit: oh, there is a Seeadler-Harbour in the Pacific ... wow! 

 
  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 9:42 AM

Absolutely!  His career and that of his ship reads like it is straight out of an O'Brian Aubrey novel!  Sadly, we shall never see his like again, and that's for certain!

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:40 PM
 
 
 

Cool - one shot - and a hit!

But it was easy, since I got Luckners book with all his tales.. he was a very good tale-teller!

here is the next one:

I am looking for a ship and its commander
which did a manoever seen in "pirates of the caribean" (I did not believe this is possible!):

The crew managed to swing the ship round at speed so that the ship could bring its gun to bear much better.

Which ship, which famous commander, and what did he do, 
to turn the ship that much faster than the reporting captain expected to be possible? 

 
  • Member since
    December 2006
Posted by woodburner on Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:47 PM

Mary Rose spun around to bring stern arms to bear, then the other broadside.  

  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:49 AM

What does to "spun around" mean?

But its not the ship, not the commander and (as far as I understood) not the maneuvre I was thinking of.

Sorry, I have no possibility to scan .. and since the last ones where only questions, I thouhgt .. Sorry!

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Thursday, March 19, 2009 7:04 AM
The maneuver is called 'club hauling,' which involves dropping the anchor in order to tack the ship very suddenly.  But this technique was used by a number of different commanders, in a number of different actions, so I'm afraid you might have to give us another clue...
  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Thursday, March 19, 2009 4:08 PM
 searat12 wrote:
The maneuver is called 'club hauling,' which involves dropping the anchor in order to tack the ship very suddenly.  But this technique was used by a number of different commanders, in a number of different actions, so I'm afraid you might have to give us another clue...

Again I am surprised - I had expected that the anchor would get lost during such a manoevres.

Many times?? .. bad luck, I thought it is unique! .. and until I was reading about my famous captain, I thought that scene in "Pirate of the Caribean" a very nice tale!

O.k. more hints:

my ship is originally a spanish build one - and her capture (togehter with two other ships) by its new owner lead to war between the new owner and Spain.

It was faster and stronger than the previous (and also well known) ship of our famous commander. And he used it in many occacions mostly very successfully.

In peacetimes our famous commander would have been an excellent pirat - but: lucky for him - he had to fight an enemy during war-times. And later - when his mother-country was not interested in his service any more - he found others to "order" his masterfully seamanship and combat-experience.  

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Friday, March 20, 2009 8:33 AM
Club-hauling is generally considered to be an emergency maneuver.  Many of the old square-riggers were very bad at tacking (changing tack by turning into and across the wind on to a new tack), and instead would be forced to wear ship (falling off the wind, passing the eye of the wind across the stern and then coming up on to the new tack), and this was particularly true for those ships that couldn't sail very close to the wind.  Wearing ship is OK if you have plenty of sea-room, but you lose a lot of ground to leeward that may take a while to make up on the new tack, and is most inadvisable when on a lee-shore.  In an unweatherly ship rapidly approaching a lee-shore, club-hauling may be the only maneuver that can save the ship by forcing it to tack abruptly, and if the maneuver is done with a very handy crew, the anchor may be plucked up off the bottom when the ship proceeds on its new tack.  Otherwise, the anchor line is cut or slipped and the anchor lost 'on purpose' (better a lost anchor than a lost ship), though it is also standard to buoy the anchor line so that it may be retrieved later as time and circumstance allow.  The use of club-hauling as a battle maneuver only works if the water is fairly shallow, though in a big storm at sea, you can also use wreckage to achieve the much the same effect as an anchor (a sea-anchor).  In shallow water, club-hauling can also be used as a quick way to anchor, which was used on one occassion by a Dutch fleet, that in the middle of battle with the English, suddenly dropped their anchors, club-hauled and furled their sails, because the wind was very light, and they had noticed that the tide had changed, which the English had not.  The English fleet was swept off out of range down the tide, and the Dutch were able to restore order to their fleet, and effect repairs......
  • Member since
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  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:51 AM
My best guess (and a guess it most certainly is!) would be Capt Thomas Cochrane, of the frigate HMS Imperieuse, which was built in Ferrol Spain and seized as part of a treasure fleet, but I don't recall an incident in which this ship was club-hauled in battle.....
  • Member since
    March 2013
Posted by Marcus.K. on Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:58 PM
 

That´s it!

Cochrane protected a part of his crew which was doing "buissness" on shore - while he noticed enemy cavalary trying to get closer. He noticed that they had to pass a way close to the cliffs and turned in order to cover this part of the way with his gun fire - to get enough time for his men to get back safely.

Found that in "Cochrane - the real master and commander" .. very interesting life.

It was reported by a second commander who joined for some weeks the fights of the Imperieuse with his frigate - and who was very impressed by the speed of the turn.

Sorry that I made it that difficult - but I did not know that this sort of handling a ship was something well known and done often. As I said: when I saw that in "Pirates of the Carribean", I thought it´s impossible! But - again: real life gives sometimes more than fiction.

And Lord Cochrane IS the real master and commander. Fascinating!

Its yours again!

 
  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:46 AM

So!  What is the name of this ship, and what has happened to her?

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Norfolk, UK
Posted by RickF on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:22 PM

Is that the armoured cruiser USS San Diego (ex USS California), the only major US warhip lost in WW1? I believe she was sunk off New York in 1918 by a mine laid by a U-boat.

Rick

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:48 PM
Nope!  Try again!!
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