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By the deep 17 ...

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  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Saturday, April 30, 2016 2:46 PM

Hi Daniel,

Nice to meet You here and  watch you wonderful  story ! as Great as usualy you did... those your findings, how to treat planking, to make their surface looks more realistic ( that time ,when you removed damaged painting)-it 's somthng! very good effect!

next my model,if it happend somedays...I will use your metod surely! :)

with big pleasure continue to watch your buildings!

All the best!

Kirill

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Sunday, May 1, 2016 5:10 AM

Thank you Steve and Kirill, your kind words are always good for a poor modeler´s soul!

 

I am already wondering, but nobody dares asking about the title of the thread  ;-)

 
... okokok, before I have to wait too long: dafi, what strange thread title you have ?!?
 
Once upon a time, the shout from the channels was to be heard "By the Deep 17" meaning a little more than 17 fathoms of water were measured, roundabout 30 meters.
 
The line used was  ca. 20 to 25 fathoms long (about 36 to 45 meters) and had marks indicating the depth measured. So the shout "By the Mark XX" meant that it was exactely on the mark and "By the Deep XX" meant it to be above the mark. The marks were at  2, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17 und 20 fathoms (after Nares) and had :
2 fathoms leather with 2 stripes, 3 fathoms leather with 3 stripes, 5 fathoms white, 7 fathoms red, 10 fathoms leather with hole 13 fathoms blue, 15 fathoms white, 17 fathoms red und 20 fathoms two knots.
 
 
 
So hastily made the 20 fathom line, fitted marks and lead ...
 
deep17_130524_7211.jpg
 
... and the sound of the falling lead could be heard  :-)
 
deep17_130524_7219.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7221.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7226.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7232.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7235.jpg
 
deep17_130524_7233.jpg
 
"By the Deep ..."
 
XXXDAn
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Sunday, May 1, 2016 5:29 AM

I've heard it!Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • From: Tempe AZ
Posted by docidle on Sunday, May 1, 2016 1:43 PM

Beautiful work as usual Dan! I have to say, looking at all your detail work makes my eyes and brain hurt. I love the weathering you have done. Just enough but not too much.

Steve

       

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Monday, May 2, 2016 11:46 AM

Hi Daniel,

Watch it again... fallen in love with that black color... damn realistic!!!

could You describe in short, how You did it?... what's else, exept black paint?

Big BRGDS! :)))

Kirill

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 2:31 AM

Thank you Steve and Kirill :-)

The black was a mixture with casein washes ditry white, white dry brushing, brush made traces of water rinsings, chipping with a fine brush and more finery with the usual more or less artistic approach ;-)

After a hint from a fellow modeller I still shortend the lead a tad, fixed some resin anchors from my own production and it now looks like this :-)


deep17_130530_7652.jpg

deep17_130530_7660.jpg

deep17_130530_7661.jpg

deep17_130530_7665.jpg

Enjoy, Daniel

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 4:17 AM

Oh Yes!!!

Nice looks!

I like it!

Thanks for guidance with black painting!

Seems to me ,those colors ...black and white -most complicate for proper imitation!

Anchor... remarks only abt painting... is there sence slightly adjust difference in coloring of metal and wooden parts???

Or must be same?

 

BRGDS 

Kirill

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 10:49 AM

Good question ...

In later years it was painted flush over, as to be seen when the white and black stripes were applied over everything.

Have to ask in our german forum, I could see the same brownish coat as on the guns being applied. I will keep you updated :-)

XXXDAn

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 3:34 PM

Hello Daniel,

those my remark ...lets say, is pure theoretical....just have a gap in 3 days of freedom from my duties...waiting in the hotel for the next emploiment... my model far away from me, and a lot of time for carefully reading/ studing ,what other modeler saying and doing :)))  and follow all those links they provided.Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile

I had feeling , that there some difference in coloration of metal and wooden parts of the anchor could exists, rised after many times repeatedly watching your paints and iron work on these section of Victory...just at the level of feelings, when you drop a glance...this two parts are from different materials... may be somthng , as when I look at this part of chain plates and planking on your model...both supposed to be black in color, but in this case ,I feel from the first moment,they are from differentvin material...

By the way, I foget, did tell You in past, how interesting effect made still brush(some kind of small handle still brush used for cleaning rust from metal parts...)on fresh painted surface?

if not, You could try... I use it, when paint my masts and bowsprit...experiments :left plastic, right painted wood as "wood" :)))

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  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 9:00 PM
Sounding trivia. The line is called a "lead" (variant: "leade"), and pronounced in English with a long "E" (ref: "LEED"). The sounding weight is called the "lead" but with a soft /short "e" (ref "led") to rhyme with the metal. The lead was usually iron pipe, often plugged (variant "slugged") with lead. There was a cup in the base filled with tallow to bring back a sample of the bottom. To properly make a sounding (sounding coming from the calling out the depths aloud), the lead was read when the line was plumb vertical. In 3 or 4 fathoms (fathom = 6' or 1.83m) of water, this was not much of a task. In ten fathoms of water, the lead had to be spun on it's lead line to get it to land ahead of the ship. This took some art, as the leadsman had to gauge the forward speed of the ship and the potential depth of the water.
  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, May 3, 2016 10:49 PM

Analog computers rule!

That was called to arm the lead.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Wednesday, May 4, 2016 8:19 AM

Thank you for the input!

Next lashed the guns as defined by the Navy Board  ...

 
deep17_guns_8358.jpg
 
... then tried out the etch hammock cranes ...
 
deep17_etch_8359.jpg
 
deep17_etch_8363.jpg
 
... and with connecting rope ...
 
deep17_etch_8368.jpg
 
... :-)
 
XXXDAn
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Wednesday, May 4, 2016 11:22 AM
Just realised that I forgot to show the gunport lid topping lifts. A blackened 0,3 mm copper wire wound around a 1 mm needle and cut into rings.
 
deep17_130525_7557.jpg
 
For the next steps I skipped the tweezers and used fine pliers from the electro department, thus reducing the free flights of the parts enormously !
 
After some tests I did like follow: As the thread was to thin to do a real splice, I held the ring with the pliers ...
 
deep17_130525_7583.jpg
 
... some CA in the U-turn of the tread and twisted counter clockwise ...
 
deep17_130530_7594.jpg
 
.. to get a well enough splice imitation.
 
Then positiond the ring, hooked in ...
 
deep17_130525_7575.jpg
 
... closed with the pliers ...
 
deep17_130525_7581.jpg
 
... and the lift is in place :-)
 
 
There are still the small leather tubes that protect the lifts entering the hull.
The original idea was to imitate those with diluted PVA but now I wanted to try something more tricky.
 
Some time ago I saw a trick in the WW1 biplane section, heating up a Q-Tips tube and pulling it, resulting in ultra thin tubes as the ratio in between the hole and the outer wall stays the same during the process.
 
As I wanted the tube to be black, I took a black sprue, so I prepared a 4 mm sprue by drilling a center hole of 2 mm, fixed toothpicks on its ends ...
 
deep17_130530_7600.jpg
 
... and slowly heated it up and pulled to the wanted diameter ...
 
deep17_130530_7607.jpg
 
... then cut 3 mm pieces and fiddeld them on a 0,1 mm copper wire to avoid unwanted escapes. In the front the test topping lift.
 
Then drilled 0,7 mm holes for the tubes pointing 45° upwards, inserted the tubes, glued them in and cut them to the necessary length ...
 
deep17_130530_7618.jpg
 
... used a needle to reopen the squeezed holes, put the lift in and glued it by fixing with the needle.
 
And it looks like this:
 
deep17_130530_7617.jpg
 
deep17_130530_7620.jpg
 
deep17_130530_7640.jpg
 
With a little more practice it will for shure look even tidier macro wise, but for the naked eye it already works :-)
 
And for the next projects I will do the real splice, i promise ;-)
 
Cheers, Daniel
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Wednesday, May 4, 2016 12:08 PM

Hi Daniel,

Looks perfect! rings I make in the same way... but this trick with simplified splicing-good idea...and much faster than imitate norm. splicing... on such thin thhread...I need to readjust my leads.'!..

Thanks for idea! :)

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Friday, May 6, 2016 1:35 AM
You are welcome Kirill!!
 
...hihihihihihi...
 
...hohohohohoho...
 
... looks like dafi entered the coffee roasting business too ...
 
Victory_130721_8694.jpg
 
... next lesseon was "learn it the hard way!"
 
 
This is how it looks if Fimo/Milliput is baked with 230° Celsius instead of 110° Celsius as blind dafi got confused by the english temperature beside the german writing and vica versa and decided bravely to use 230° Fahrenheit ...
 
Victory_130721_8697.jpg
 
... nicely black and blown up ...
 
Victory_130721_8693.jpg
 
.... so got the Fimo out again ...
 
Victory_130721_8687.jpg
 
... first the ball, then the thick sausage, then a medium sausage of 4 mm with the use of a small sheet with 4 mm spacers, and then the thin sausage of 3 mm with the flipside ot the tool with 3 mm spacers. Afterwards I used a "comb" with small wires in 2 mm distance to roll in the 7 lashings representing the 7 seas ...
 
Victory_130721_8688.jpg
 
... then bent the parts, distributed it on the oven plate and baked on the right tempreture.
 
Victory_130721_8701.jpg
 
Funny to see the bloated black bean beside. And I finally got a nice stack of rolled hammocks :-)
 
Victory_130721_8704.jpg
 
Then filed the touching surfaces ...
 
Victory_130721_8705.jpg
 
... glued the parts together while paying tribute to gravity in the middle of the nettings.
 
Victory_130721_8706.jpg
 
Victory_130721_8710.jpg
 
Victory_130721_8719.jpg
 
This is still the rough version, paint will be easy, but the netting will still need some fiddling around to be figured out properly ...
 
All the best, Daniel
 
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Friday, May 6, 2016 4:48 AM

dafi coffee roasting businessBig SmileBig SmileBig Smile

those, which backed normal way... looks good!!!

painted and with the net installed ..will be even more better!

BRGDS

Kirill

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Friday, May 6, 2016 11:22 AM

Dafi, this is turning into a very interesting subject.  Taking soundings and stowing the hammocks.  When looking at your project, I seem to hear the sound of being piped for breakfast and the thought in my mind of a stalking French frigate hiding somehwere in the mist.

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Friday, May 6, 2016 1:44 PM

Thank you Scott, now you made me worried ...

*lookingaroundcarefully*

...and Kirill, yes there we go :-)

 

Next intoduced was the top line for holding the netting.

Victory_130721_8743.jpg

 

Victory_130721_8750.jpg

The cranes are bend open for easier handling and black lines of the lashing are mere orientation for me and are not meant to stay.

So far so good, but the next part was a bit scary ...
 
... on the heads and in the fighting tops of my other build I already tried some netting. But it was quite ridgit and I knew not what would come out now with mor complex forms.
 
So put the gaze into a cardboard frame  ...
 
Victory-130723_8781.jpg
 
... and painted nicely with beige, added some plain white and dirtied it with very diluted black ink.
 
Victory-130723_8783.jpg
 
Easy to see how the appearance became more homogenous.
 
Then did a test fit and realised how the holes got stuck on the hammock cranes ...
 
Victory-130723_8784.jpg
 
... but it looked ok so far.
 
Victory-130723_8786.jpg
 
Some test handling on the outside ...
 
Victory-130723_8788.jpg
 
... proved that the netting should curl outside instead of inside.
 
Then introduced some papers as introduction help and introducing the netting was no subject of getting stuck any more :-)
 
Victory-130723_8789.jpg
 
Got the front paper out, adjusted the height towards the rope ...
 
Victory-130723_8795.jpg
 
... and glued with CA the netting onto the rope .
 
Then used the hammocks to press down the netting ...
 
Victory-130723_8798.jpg
 
... pulled out the back paper and also the hammocks, used pincers to hold rope and netting together and used CA to fix.
 
Victory-130723_8851.jpg
 
Then cut the side length ...
 
Victory-130723_8849.jpg
 
... and the most tricky, cleaning up the top edge with some fine and sharp nail scissors - without cutting the top rope!
 
Victory-130723_8862.jpg
 
Looks intriguing enough :-)
 
Victory-130723_8863.jpg
 
Victory-130723_8870.jpg
 
And another fascinating task, painting the hammocks using my beloved casein paints with all kind of whiter shades of pale ...
 
Victory-130723_8876.jpg
 
... looking if the colors work if hidden behind the netting ...
 
Victory-130723_8878.jpg
 
... some differentiation with some 50 more different shades of ochre ...
 
Victory-130725_8899.jpg
 
... put in place ...
 
Victory-130725_8907.jpg
 
... gently and pushed in :-)
 
Victory-130725_8910.jpg
 
Fascinating!
 
Victory-130725_8916.jpg
 
Victory-130725_8925.jpg
 
And as you see on the left - my reference Tic-Tac would even not fit in :-)
 
Good night and sleep well,
 
Daniel
  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wyoming Michigan
Posted by ejhammer on Friday, May 6, 2016 2:08 PM
That is simply amazing work!

Completed - 1/525 Round Two Lindberg repop of T2A tanker done as USS MATTAPONI, USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa Dec 1942, USS Yorktown 1/700 Trumpeter 1943. In The Yards - USS ESSEX 1/700 Hasegawa 1945, USS ESSEX 1/700 Dragon 1944, USS ESSEX 1/700 Trumpeter 1945, USS ESSEX 1/540 Revell (vintage) 1962, USS ESSEX 1/350 Trumpeter 1942, USS ESSEX LHD-2 as commissioned, converted from USS Wasp kit Gallery Models. Plus 35 other plastic and wood ship kits.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Amarillo, TX.
Posted by captfue on Friday, May 6, 2016 3:52 PM

Fantastic work...

Rules are overrated
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Friday, May 6, 2016 5:15 PM

Oh Yes!

Very good!....

this ...nail clipper...magic staff, new it when did ratling...

All The Best!!!

Kirill

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Friday, May 6, 2016 5:36 PM

Daniel,

suggestion...did You consider to shadow a little bit netting color...probably it wiil effect on hammock,made them more visible/contrast "white", and netting ...less ...such kind of visualization as we can see here...pictures from Budriot book...????

URL=http://vfl.ru/fotos/b9c7a51612570141.html] [/URL]

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Saturday, May 7, 2016 5:49 AM

Thank you ejhammer, captfue and Kirill, very indulgent!

Thank you for the remark Kirill, that is the reason to do test shots like this small vignette.

It is mentioned (by Steel?) that the netting should be tarred, but it lets free how dark the outcome was. Since a while I already came of the black and white prime directive for rigging, soon to be seen, but here I didi not want to tar the netting to strong, but seeing your pictures, I think I could have done more :-)

Some more easy tinkering was also done.
 
Anchors and hammock crane interaction.
 
800_Victory_focstl_9063.jpg
 
800_Victory_focstl_9073.jpg
 
XXXDAn
  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Saturday, May 7, 2016 8:06 AM

This is like watching surgery. Absolutely fascinating.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Saturday, May 7, 2016 8:23 AM

Thank you, much more brain salad surgery, still trying to find my way through like those honorables gents ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Rq6s0InLc

XXXDAn

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Saturday, May 7, 2016 6:15 PM

Good!

no... between Good and VERY GOOD... close to the last one!

Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile

like your painting jobs! 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Russia, St.Peterburg
Posted by kirill4 on Saturday, May 7, 2016 6:25 PM

Finaly it should sounds like in this link of ELP you gave ... 9:45 -9:50 ?

Big Smile

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Sunday, May 8, 2016 2:42 AM
As the bower is only displayed by half on this small vignette, I jumped at this point over to my main build with coplete hull and had some hanging trials for the anchor to see where and how it really sits ...
 
Victory-140503_3269.jpg
 
... just to realise that it is the point of the fluke and not the side resting in the shoe.
 
Then finally on the way for some rigging :-) 
 
*enjoy*
 
As usual, not happy with the provided holes on the suppiers dead eyes, I prepared some new holes this time not using toothpicks but using thin battens from the draw plate to close the old ones ... 
 
Victory-140502_3262.jpg
 
... drilled fresh ones and painted them black. Tried something new for the rigging procedure ...
 
Victory-140504_3273.jpg
 
... a round stick with the external diameter of the deadeye with a slot ...
 
Victory-140504_3280.jpg
 
... 4 times round and secured, taking down the ring ...
 
Victory-140504_3283.jpg
 
... and forced over the deadeye.
 
Victory-140504_3289.jpg
 
Then prepared a new template ...
 
Victory-140504_3294.jpg
 
... stuck the deadeye into the hole and clamped it ...
 
Victory-140504_3299.jpg
 
... and made the two seizings.
 
And what for ?!? Simply for that the last shroud does look good beside topgallant backstay, shifting backstay and royal backstay :-)
 
Victory-140504_3316.jpg
 
And this is how it looks ...
 
Victory-140504_3331.jpg
 
Victory-140504_3324.jpg
 
And for Kirill: To get different appearences on the anchor in between iron and wood, I addes plenty of rust onto the shaft :-)
 
Cheers, Daniel
  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Monday, May 9, 2016 3:39 AM

After some lenghty but fruitful discussion in our german forum about the orientaion of the shroud´s free end´s orientation to the left left or right, forth or aft we found that almost all literature shows it the way that it is displayed:

 

- for the cable-laid shrouds - Starboard pointing foreward, larboard aft :-)

- for plain- or hawser-laid shrouds - Starboard pointing aft, larboard foreward :-)

 

The only one showing it vica versa is Marquardt in his Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging, funnily, his other book Schoner in Nord und Süd shows it the "usual" way.

 
Some other information coming the way was incorporated immediately
- Max. distance of the big deadeyes twice diameter
- Tackle about half the diameter of the shroud
- Shroud not too tight around the deadeye
- free end of the tackle passes through the gap of deadeye and shroud
- free end shorter
 
And here we go Mark 2:
 
before:
Victory-140504_3316.jpg
 
After 
Victory-140508_3335.jpg
 
And one backstay more and it is getting tighter and tighter ...

 

Victory-140508_3341.jpg

 

 

... but still have to clear and belay the tackles to look less messy :-)
 
XXXDAn

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: Ludwigsburg Germany
Posted by dafi on Monday, May 9, 2016 1:19 PM
And slowly one can guess what direction this build is going to take :-)
 
Victory-140517_3436.jpg
 
And please enjoy the exquisite collection of clamps ... 
 
Victory-140517_3437.jpg
 
XXXDAn
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