How are Grex airbrushes?

keilau

Bgrigg:

Well, I've never heard of an airbrush that has a modulating trigger for airflow.

 

Don Wheeler:

You may have some control over air flow with your trigger, but it was not designed for that.  It is actually a poppet valve like you have in the valve stem of your tires. 

 

We have many Badger users on this forum. I will use some direct quote from this page.

SINGLE ACTION refers to airbrushes on which the trigger controls only the air flow. The amount of fluid is regulated by turning the needle adjustment screw. When the trigger is depressed, a pre-set amount of fluid is sprayed.

This applies to the Badger 200 and said trigger controls "AIR FLOW ONLY" by design. It is 180 degree opposite to what Bill and Don said. I don't have one so I will let the Badger 200 user to describe how their airbrush works.

 

From the same Badger page:

DUAL ACTION refers to airbrushes on which the trigger controls both air and color (down for air, back for color). This style airbrush allows for varying line widths while spraying.

This applies to the Badger 100 series. Modeler may work differently than a fine artist doing painting and do not need Badger's intended purpose. But it still does not make a Badger trigger an "on-off" only switch.

I know these facts without haveing to look at the Badger page. I just push the trigger on my Iwata in and out and can feel the distinctive difference in air flow. No paint comes out until I pull back the trigger.

We all know that the "trigger" Grex is different. Can we let a user like Gerald to explain it instead of jumping to conclusion. This is the original question asked.

Where is the confusion??!!  The Badger definition you just quoted describes PRECISELY that the Grex Airbrush does?  You have one trigger.  Pull it a little, you get air.  Pull it a little more, you get paint.  Same trigger, controls both.  It is the same with your Iwata, the action is just different.  I mean, on your Iwata, you CAN get just air, right?  But you CAN"T get just  paint?  Same thing on the Grex.

In a single action brush, the only thing you control with the trigger is the air - you get air, you get paint, end of story.

You are right, however, that with some double actions, you can vary the amount of air.  I can do it with my Badger 150 - there is enough 'play' in the trigger that I can get just a little air flow.  But, to be honest, the best and easiest way to control airflow, in my opinion, is at the compressor with a pressure regulator....

What's interesting to me is that since I had a cheapo airbrush compressor (the company is out of business) and I have no regulator, I've learned to use my airbrush's trigger to control the airflow. I just assumed all dual action airbrush worked this way, and thus always thought the regulator was a bit of a luxury. It does allow you to set the Maximum pressure you want. I've been the lookout to upgrade to a better compressor and perhaps an airbrush.

While my Aztek have served me fine for almost 10 year - it's been repaired for free under it's lifetime warranty once and looks like it needs another one now. The main issue seems to be that I didn't clean the brush well enough and paint may now be permanent stuck inside. I now longer can use the brush in full dual mode, as some paint spray out even when only air should. Unfortunately, I can't open the thing up without voiding the warranty - so maybe an airbrush that I can strip completely will be better for someone like me who doesn't clean his brush as well as he should.

What attracted me to the Grex Titanium is the pistol grip, seems to much less tiring than the traditonal trigger and perhaps easier control.  It's a tossup between the Grex or a Badger Renegade Spirit.  For thet compressor, I'm thinking of going with a Silentaire scorpion I - has the pressure gauage, moisture trap, and the auto-shutoff. It's also rated sound wise about the same as the Grex compressor, which I heard at the model show and seems nice and quiet to me.

I contacted Grex directly for clarification on the Tritium's trigger works. First my email, I have bolded the section pertaining to the on/off trigger:

bgriggattelusdotnet wrote:
I belong to a scale modeling forum, and there is an argument about how the Tritium trigger works. Some people are convinced that the trigger adjusts the air pressure, while I am convinced that the air pressure remains constant at the airbrush and the trigger only controls whether it is on or off. Can someone from your company please explain properly so the argument can be resolved? I have already provided the image showing how the trigger works, along with the explanation from the web page on the Tritium, but they aren't having it.

/forums/p/127325/1283226.aspx#1283226

Thanks for your time, Bill Grigg

And now for their reply, again, I have bolded (and italicized) the pertinent sections:

Hello Bill,

Thanks for your help.

The short answer to your question is you are right.

Here's my longer detailed answer regarding this type of double action
trigger: There isn't an official technical guide that defines airbrush terminology, but its understood that single action refers to the trigger controlling one thing, which is the air. Whereas double action refers to the trigger controlling two things, the air as well as the amount of paint volume. In a single action airbrush, the paint volume is adjusted somewhere else on the airbrush.

Early double action airbrushes that used the traditional push button trigger had a tendency to have a longer vertical trigger throw. In other words, the distance that the trigger can move up and down is longer resulting in the ability to control how much air is released. It could be done, but not necessarily easy to control both the amount of air and amount of paint simultaneously. Most traditional double action airbrushes today don't have that long throw and the air control is used mostly as an on/off button.

Because of this transition, the pistol style double action trigger is a natural evolution. The first half of the trigger pull turns on the air fully. Then the second half of the trigger pull will control the amount of paint volume. The user will sense more resistance in the second half so they'll know where the paint flow begins. Adjustment of the amount of air is not possible with this trigger. But because motion is only in one direction and the air is always on before paint (and the paint is off before the air is off), this eliminates a lot of the control difficulties users had with the traditional double action triggers. Such as not spitting/spattering when the trigger is released.

Even in today's airbrushes, it's still possible to use current traditional double action triggers to control the amount of air. Again, its difficult, but not impossible. Of all the thousands of people I've met at tradeshows, I've only run into two people that use it that way. They are impressive and the more power to them. We are by no means saying that the pistol style trigger is better. It just makes it easier for those that don't want to or need to control the amount of air with the trigger. For those that want to stick to the traditional double action trigger, they still have that option. At the end of the day, its just a matter of preference.

But regardless of which double action trigger one chooses, the traditional push button or the pistol style, the user can easily and precisely control the amount of air by using our G-MAC accessory.
http://www.grexusa.com/grexairbrush/G-MAC.php5

If you need any further clarification or if you have any additional questions, feel free to contact us again.

Regards,
Raymond
Grex Airbrush

So it seems we are all correct, as Raymond has clarified the Grex trigger is on/off only. And some older triggers did allow for some adjustment during the vertical travel. I guess I'll have to let Raymond know that there are a bunch more exceptional airbrush artists to add to his short list.

Boyd, if you can control differing air flows with your 150, you have a delicate touch on the trigger, or perhaps your airbrush is older than mine or has a longer vertical travel. I can only get on or off and with a scant 1/16" travel, I don't even attempt it.

I am also waiting for an answer from Ken at Badger for clarification from him on air flow control with Badger airbrushes, and will post when I have that information. I do know that they sell a "bakery" edition of the 200 for cake decorating, and it has the air valve removed so that the air is constantly on.

Bgrigg

 

Boyd, if you can control differing air flows with your 150, you have a delicate touch on the trigger, or perhaps your airbrush is older than mine or has a longer vertical travel. I can only get on or off and with a scant 1/16" travel, I don't even attempt it.

I am also waiting for an answer from Ken at Badger for clarification from him on air flow control with Badger airbrushes, and will post when I have that information. I do know that they sell a "bakery" edition of the 200 for cake decorating, and it has the air valve removed so that the air is constantly on.

 

Bill

Interesting conversation with Raymond.  Some good info there.

Don't read too much into my comment about controlling the airflow.  I don't have great control over it, but as I depress the trigger I get to a 'sweet spot' when the air starts to flow.  If I am really light with my touch, I can hover the trigger right there and let the air 'seep' out.  But, it would be a stretch to say I have 'control' over it.  It is useful for doing some light misting, but it does take a lot of effort to 'hold' the spot, so it is not anything I'd say is really effective for any significant sized project.

bbrowniii

Where is the confusion??!!  The Badger definition you just quoted describes PRECISELY that the Grex Airbrush does?  You have one trigger.  Pull it a little, you get air.  Pull it a little more, you get paint.  Same trigger, controls both.  It is the same with your Iwata, the action is just different.  I mean, on your Iwata, you CAN get just air, right?  But you CAN"T get just  paint?  Same thing on the Grex.

In a single action brush, the only thing you control with the trigger is the air - you get air, you get paint, end of story.

You are right, however, that with some double actions, you can vary the amount of air.  I can do it with my Badger 150 - there is enough 'play' in the trigger that I can get just a little air flow.  But, to be honest, the best and easiest way to control airflow, in my opinion, is at the compressor with a pressure regulator....

Sorry, I have to say that I am more confused than ever by some of the comments.

It was agreed that ALL airbrushes need both air flow and paint flow to work. Do we call all airbrush "dual action"?

On the Badger 200 series, the paint flow is on-off only. The push down trigger controls the air flow. Badger calls this a "single action" airbrush because, apparently, the on-off paint flow is a given and does not count as "an action". What Badger does is consistent with most other manufacturers.

The Grex pull trigger series, the air flow is on-off only. The trigger controls the paint flow only. Bill and you insist that this is dual action. I don't get it.

The main question is whether a highly skilled modeler benefit from a traditional "dual action" airbrush where the trigger gives a range of control over both the air flow AND the paint flow. I hope that master modelers like Waikong or Don Wheeler will help us understand it better.

Bill,  That's fantastic information, you really went the extra mile to clear this issue up!  Much appreciated.  As for those of us who have learned to control the air pressure with the trigger being exceptional airbrush artists, speaking for myself, I only WISH!  I think it took me over a year just to feel comforatble with using an airbrush and another not to be intimidated by it.  After all these years, I still think it has a mind of its own sometimes.

keilau

 

 

Sorry, I have to say that I am more confused than ever by some of the comments.

It was agreed that ALL airbrushes need both air flow and paint flow to work. Do we call all airbrush "dual action"?

No, we call them airbrushes.

On the Badger 200 series, the paint flow is on-off only. The push down trigger controls the air flow. Badger calls this a "single action" airbrush because, apparently, the on-off paint flow is a given and does not count as "an action". What Badger does is consistent with most other manufacturers.

No, this is incorrect. The trigger operates the air flow only, and IS the "single" action. The needle, which controls the paint flow is a separate setting with no link to the trigger. Since the adjustment of the needle is done prior to using it, it is not considered an action used in the operation of the airbrush, but is a setting.

The Grex pull trigger series, the air flow is on-off only. The trigger controls the paint flow only. Bill and you insist that this is dual action. I don't get it.

Dual action airbrushes control both the (on/off) air flow by depressing the trigger (action 1), as well as the paint flow by pulling back the trigger (action 2). With the Grex (and I suspect the Iwata Kustom TH & TR models) trigger controls the air flow (action 1) and the paint flow (action 2) but do both with the same linear motion.

The main question is whether a highly skilled modeler benefit from a traditional "dual action" airbrush where the trigger gives a range of control over both the air flow AND the paint flow. I hope that master modelers like Waikong or Don Wheeler will help us understand it better.

The simple fact remains that virtually every dual action airbrush on the market today controls the air flow as on/off only. Older airbrushes may have allowed (limited) air flow adjustment with the trigger, but this has been dropped, probably as it is of dubious use. Airbrushes must maintain a certain minimum of air flow pressure to atomize paints, and the ability to adjust that with the trigger would allow the user to go below that limit which would cause the paint to sputter and spit. Hardly a benefit to any user.

Raymond from Grex says he has talked to thousands of airbrush users and has met only two that claim to adjust air flow with the trigger. An indication, IMHO, of the near impossibility of maintaining control of both air flow and paint flow with a trigger that describes an arc over the length of it's travel.

Bgrigg

keilau:

 

 

Sorry, I have to say that I am more confused than ever by some of the comments.

It was agreed that ALL airbrushes need both air flow and paint flow to work. Do we call all airbrush "dual action"?

No, we call them airbrushes.

On the Badger 200 series, the paint flow is on-off only. The push down trigger controls the air flow. Badger calls this a "single action" airbrush because, apparently, the on-off paint flow is a given and does not count as "an action". What Badger does is consistent with most other manufacturers.

No, this is incorrect. The trigger operates the air flow only, and IS the "single" action. The needle, which controls the paint flow is a separate setting with no link to the trigger. Since the adjustment of the needle is done prior to using it, it is not considered an action used in the operation of the airbrush, but is a setting.

The Grex pull trigger series, the air flow is on-off only. The trigger controls the paint flow only. Bill and you insist that this is dual action. I don't get it.

You summed it up pretty well, Bill, but just let me add a quick point to help clear things up.  Keilau, the 'double' of the double action airbrush is the ability to move the needle, thus being able to vary the amount of paint that is being sprayed, thereby adjusting the thickness of lines, etc.

By comparison in a single action brush, the needle's position is fixed - it is set before painting starts, so the only action you are controlling with the trigger is to start or stop the air flow. 

Bgrigg

Raymond from Grex says he has talked to thousands of airbrush users and has met only two that claim to adjust air flow with the trigger. An indication, IMHO, of the near impossibility of maintaining control of both air flow and paint flow with a trigger that describes an arc over the length of it's travel.

 

Yeah, I think you summed it up nicely, Bill.  I CAN control, to a certain degree, the air flow coming out of my nozzle, however, doing that with any precision AND controlling the amount of paint is vistually impossible.  To be honest, when I do feather the trigger to just get a little air, I typically just pull it back all the way to open the needle and let the paint flow at full volume - anything else is just too difficult (darn near impossible for me).  I'd say Raymond is right - there probably are only a few people who can do both with a great deal of precision...

Just to try to get some expert opinion, I started this thread on the Airbrush.com forum.  These people are real artists and make their living with an airbrush.  Don't be fooled by Airhead's hokey writing style.  He's an old hand at airbrushing and knows his stuff.  KathyL does beautiful work.

Don

Don,

Thanks for posting that thread on the airbrush forum, hopefully more people will chime in and we can get a real consensus.

Personally, I think they are fooling themselves that they are controlling air flow with incremental movements of the trigger. Dagger strokes are created by adjusting the position of the airbrush from the surface, not by altering needle position or air flow. Close up for thin, farther back for thick. This is how single action airbrushes can do dagger strokes the same as a dual action airbrush.

Bgrigg

Personally, I think they are fooling themselves that they are controlling air flow with incremental movements of the trigger.

If KathyL says she can do it, I believe her.  She has a variety of airbrushes and years of experience.  Note that she mentions one brand, the Olympos, and she says it is tricky.  It could be that the Olympos has a longer stroke like the Aztek.   I think what it boils down to is that if you think you can do it and it seems to help, fine.  Even if it's all in your head, what counts is the results.  If you try it and don't see any difference, then don't worry about it.  But, as Airhead wrote, "its always bin one of the Golden Rools that triger's alway depressed fully".  Airhead knows and teaches airbrushing.

Note: Airhead can write in perfectly good English when he wants to.

Don

bbrowniii

 

Keilau, the 'double' of the double action airbrush is the ability to move the needle, thus being able to vary the amount of paint that is being sprayed, thereby adjusting the thickness of lines, etc.

By comparison in a single action brush, the needle's position is fixed - it is set before painting starts, so the only action you are controlling with the trigger is to start or stop the air flow. 

 

"in a single action brush, ............. the only action you are controlling with the trigger is to start or stop the air flow."

If you say so. (But that's not what the Badger web site said.) I don't have a single action airbrush.

keilau

 

"in a single action brush, ............. the only action you are controlling with the trigger is to start or stop the air flow."

If you say so. (But that's not what the Badger web site said.) I don't have a single action airbrush.

 

Umm, yeah it does.  Seriously, do you read your own posts?  Here, from what you posted from the Badger website - basically the exact same thing I said, because I was paraphrasing the Badger WEBSITE!!!!

"We have many Badger users on this forum. I will use some direct quote from this page.

SINGLE ACTION refers to airbrushes on which the trigger controls only the air flow. The amount of fluid is regulated by turning the needle adjustment screw. When the trigger is depressed, a pre-set amount of fluid is sprayed."

Once again, I ask, where is there confusion?  And, perhaps more important, why are you splitting hairs about this?

Keilau,

With the risk of being mean spirited, are you being deliberately obtuse?

From the Badger website on airbrush information:

SINGLE ACTION refers to airbrushes on which the trigger controls only the air flow. The amount of fluid is regulated by turning the needle adjustment screw. When the trigger is depressed, a pre-set amount of fluid is sprayed

By which they mean on or off. I have a Badger 200, and a Badger 350 clone, and both require the needle to be pre-set, and the trigger operates whether the air is on, or off.

Bgrigg

Keilau,

With the risk of being mean spirited, are you being deliberately obtuse?

Sadly, when someone claims that the website does not say something that it does say, that THEY THEMSELVES posted, yes, I fear you have reached the logical conclusion, Bill....

Don Wheeler

 

Bgrigg:

 

Personally, I think they are fooling themselves that they are controlling air flow with incremental movements of the trigger.

 

 

If KathyL says she can do it, I believe her.  She has a variety of airbrushes and years of experience.  Note that she mentions one brand, the Olympos, and she says it is tricky.  It could be that the Olympos has a longer stroke like the Aztek.   I think what it boils down to is that if you think you can do it and it seems to help, fine.  Even if it's all in your head, what counts is the results.  If you try it and don't see any difference, then don't worry about it.  But, as Airhead wrote, "its always bin one of the Golden Rools that triger's alway depressed fully".  Airhead knows and teaches airbrushing.

Note: Airhead can write in perfectly good English when he wants to.

Don

Don, I believe that she believes it, and perhaps she can. I don't have any experience with Olympos airbrushes, but have quite a bit with Badger and some with Paasche, though on a limited level. Perhaps Olympos has a very long stroke.

I am a firm believer that Airheads Golden Rule is spot on.

Bgrigg

From the Badger website on airbrush information:

SINGLE ACTION refers to airbrushes on which the trigger controls only the air flow. The amount of fluid is regulated by turning the needle adjustment screw. When the trigger is depressed, a pre-set amount of fluid is sprayed

By which they mean on or off. I have a Badger 200, and a Badger 350 clone, and both require the needle to be pre-set, and the trigger operates whether the air is on, or off.

Sorry that I did not read the Badger web site correctly.

To you, the word "control" means on or off and nothing in between. You also stated that that is how the Badger single action trigger (or all Badger triggers) was designed. I do not have a Badger 200. So, I cannot argue on this point. I just wish that a Badger person will confirm that they do this design on purpose.

To me, "control" means having a range of various amount of air flow. You push the trigger more and get more air and push it less for less air. I have an old Paasche H single action, external mix airbrush that I no longer use. The only control it has is the air flow by pushing in various stroke of the trigger. The trigger even has an adjustable (thumb screw) stop to limit how far you can push it. Those who has a 20 years old Paasche H will understand what I said. The H trigger is very convenient for this airbrush. Without it, it will be just like a spray can.

I am sorry that I mistakenly thought that all single action airbrush would work the same. But the Badger is different from the Paasche.

Keilau, I'm calling BS.

Earlier TODAY you said:

keilau

I don't have a single action airbrush.

And now we have this, in the same day:

keilau

I have an old Paasche H single action, external mix airbrush that I no longer use.

So you either don't or you do have a single action airbrush, but you cannot have both.

Here is a link to the Paasche H instruction book. Under Operating Instructions item 5 in the last sentence you will see "Press to open air valve." There are no further instructions on the operation of the air valve, as it has only the capability of on or off. Perhaps early versions did, but modern ones do not. However, according to this excerpt from the 1942 Paasche catalog (courtesy of the Airbrush Museum), I see no adjustment capability on the trigger, perhaps this version is too old to have this supposed control?

Furthermore, control has many meanings, and I am not limited to using control only to mean on or off and nothing in between. I (and Badger) are using the word control to mean the operation of the trigger, which controls whether air flows through the airbrush or not.

I suspect you are trolling to see what reactions you can get by arguing and splitting hairs. Begone Troll.

keilau

 

To me, "control" means having a range of various amount of air flow. You push the trigger more and get more air and push it less for less air. I have an old Paasche H single action, external mix airbrush that I no longer use. The only control it has is the air flow by pushing in various stroke of the trigger. The trigger even has an adjustable (thumb screw) stop to limit how far you can push it. Those who has a 20 years old Paasche H will understand what I said. The H trigger is very convenient for this airbrush. Without it, it will be just like a spray can.

I am sorry that I mistakenly thought that all single action airbrush would work the same. But the Badger is different from the Paasche.

Thanks for explaining that Keilau.  I learned something new.  I looked at the Paasche H manual and it shows the old style air valve assembly.  It calls the thumb screw a stipple adjust.  Stippling means to spray dots instead of a smooth even pattern.  The instructions say that for the new version your should reduce air pressure to produce a stipple.  I believe any airbrush will do this when there isn't enough air flow to fully atomize the paint.  Apparently, with the old version you could produce a stipple by limiting trigger travel, and the stipple adjust made this easy to do.  So the air valve was the variable type.  It looks like the new version isn't because the instructions just say to spray,  "press to open valve".

All of which goes to show that it's risky to make generalizations.  There can always be an exception.

Don

Bgrigg

Keilau, I'm calling BS.

Earlier TODAY you said:

keilau:

I don't have a single action airbrush.

And now we have this, in the same day:

keilau:

I have an old Paasche H single action, external mix airbrush that I no longer use.

So you either don't or you do have a single action airbrush, but you cannot have both.

Here is a link to the Paasche H instruction book. Under Operating Instructions item 5 in the last sentence you will see "Press to open air valve." There are no further instructions on the operation of the air valve, as it has only the capability of on or off. Perhaps early versions did, but modern ones do not. However, according to this excerpt from the 1942 Paasche catalog (courtesy of the Airbrush Museum), I see no adjustment capability on the trigger, perhaps this version is too old to have this supposed control?

Furthermore, control has many meanings, and I am not limited to using control only to mean on or off and nothing in between. I (and Badger) are using the word control to mean the operation of the trigger, which controls whether air flows through the airbrush or not.

I suspect you are trolling to see what reactions you can get by arguing and splitting hairs. Begone Troll.

 

Bgrigg

Keilau, I'm calling BS.

You and me both.  Amen.

Bgrigg wrote: Don, I believe that she believes it, and perhaps she can. I don't have any experience with Olympos airbrushes, but have quite a bit with Badger and some with Paasche, though on a limited level. Perhaps Olympos has a very long stroke.

I am a firm believer that Airheads Golden Rule is spot on.

I feel that I have to delurke for a while.;)

As a owner of several Olympos airbrushes, I can say that they don´t have longer strokes than most airbrushes. They are, IMHO, constructed as most airbrushes, to be analog when it comes to the air control. Sure, there might be people who can manipulate the valve to adjust the air, but that isn´t how they where constructed. These valves almost pop open when the air comes through. To keep them semi-open, and even in various degrees, while moving back in an arc to open for paint, isn´t what´s intended. Olympos Microns might be the second best choice if you want to try it, though, since their valves are extremly smooth in their action.

Best choice would probably be the Testor/Aztec, since their valve is of a completly different design. They really don´t have a valve in the traditional sence, it is more of a cut out design. There´s a bar that compresses the silicon airtube, and when you press the trigger, the bar lifts. This has been presented as a reason for having good, variable control of the air, using Testor/Aztecs. I don´t agree in full with this either, since you must again compensate for the arc travel when opening for paint. Sure, there might be a couple of people in the world who find themselves to have dexterity enough to have consistent results doing this, but for 99.9% of airbrushers worldwide, including most famous airbrush artists, it´s much easier to use either the regulator on the compressor, or a G-MAC-type regulator.

When it comes to the pistol trigger action airbrushes, I have several, and I can say that I have as good contol with them as I have with most other double action airbrushes. For fine detail traditional airbrushes might be better, because you get the feel of coming closer to the object with your fingers (more like a pen), but on the other hand, the pistol triggers have the benefit of better ergonomics. I get a lot of less ache in finger tendons and wrists using the pistol triggers.

Edit: Made a few spelling corrections.

Bgrigg

Keilau, I'm calling BS.

Earlier TODAY you said:

keilau:

I don't have a single action airbrush.

And now we have this, in the same day:

keilau:

I have an old Paasche H single action, external mix airbrush that I no longer use.

So you either don't or you do have a single action airbrush, but you cannot have both.

You know that I have 5 dual action, internal mix airbrushes from my many posts. Yes, I forgot that I still have this old Paasche H. You can call me BS. If this is not hair splitting on your part, I don't know what it is.

Bgrigg

Here is a link to the Paasche H instruction book. Under Operating Instructions item 5 in the last sentence you will see "Press to open air valve." There are no further instructions on the operation of the air valve, as it has only the capability of on or off. Perhaps early versions did, but modern ones do not. However, according to this excerpt from the 1942 Paasche catalog (courtesy of the Airbrush Museum), I see no adjustment capability on the trigger, perhaps this version is too old to have this supposed control?

Furthermore, control has many meanings, and I am not limited to using control only to mean on or off and nothing in between. I (and Badger) are using the word control to mean the operation of the trigger, which controls whether air flows through the airbrush or not.

Read Don Wheeler's post who explained to you how the Paasche works better than I do. (Don, thank you for the clarification.) For the newer airbrushes, the Iwata and H&S give me some control of the air flow. It allows me to paint a solid (trigger all the way down) or softer line (trigger back off some) of the same width. I don't paint freehand much. When I paint the long fault strip on warship, this control of air flow comes in handy. I still mask first, this allow me to paint the strip in several passes up close without too much overspray. That's why I like the Iwata better. This is how I expect a dual action to work. (Yes, you can achieve the same effect using the pressure control at the compressor. But not all hobby compressor has pressure adjustment.)

Bgrigg

I suspect you are trolling to see what reactions you can get by arguing and splitting hairs. Begone Troll.

This is really mean spirited. If you use your Badger airbrush differently, there is no reason to argue that others cannot have a different way of using their airbrushes of other brands.

I am really disappointed in your way of handling the truth. I will not respond any further.

denstore

Bgrigg wrote: Don, I believe that she believes it, and perhaps she can. I don't have any experience with Olympos airbrushes, but have quite a bit with Badger and some with Paasche, though on a limited level. Perhaps Olympos has a very long stroke.

I am a firm believer that Airheads Golden Rule is spot on.

 

I feel that I have to delurke for a while.;)

As a owner of several Olympos airbrushes, I can say that they don´t have longer strokes than most airbrushes. They are, IMHO, constructed as most airbrushes, to be analog when it comes to the air control. Sure, there might be people of can manipulate the valve to adjust the air, but that isn´t how they where constructed. These valves almost pop open when the air comes through. To keep them semi-open, and even in various degrees, while moving back in an arc to open for paint, isn´t what´s intended. Olympos Microns might be the second best choice if you want to try it, though, since their valves are extremly smooth in their action.

Best choice would probably be the Testor/Aztec, since their valve is of a completly different design. They really don´t have a valve in the traditional sence, it is more of a cut out design. There´s a bar that compresses the silicon airtube, and when you press the trigger, the bar lifts. This has been presented as a reason for having good, variable control of the air, using Testor/Aztecs. I don´t agree in full with this either, since you must again compensate for the arc travel when opening for paint. Sure, there might be a couple of people in the world who find themselves to hav dexterity enough to have consistent results doing this, but for 99.9% of airbrushers worldwide, including most famous airbrush artists, it´s much easier to use either the regulator on the compressor, or a G-MAC-type regulator.

When it comes to the pistol trigger action airbrushes, I have several, and I can say that I have as good contol with them as I have with most other double action airbrushes. For fine detail traditional airbrushes might be better, because you get the feel of coming closer to the object with your fingers (more like a pen), but on the other hand, the pistol triggers have the benefit of better ergonomics. I get a lot of less ache in finger tendons and wrists using the pistol triggers.

Denstore,

Thank you for your response, much better to have people who actually use the products explain their use in detail than speculation. I completely agree that manipulating the air with the trigger would be difficult, especially given the travel arc of the trigger.

The Paasche H airbrush I have used (a friend's who was letting me test it's use) certainly didn't seem capable of varying the air flow with the trigger. It seems that at one point Paasche offered an air valve that did allow some modulation, but early models didn't, and present day models don't, so perhaps it was an experiment that didn't catch on. Deliberately causing the airbrush to spit to create a stipple effect certainly has no merit for my use!

The trigger grips is more ergonomic, indeed paint guns used in industrial applications are the same design. I have been experimenting with a different grip on my airbrushes similar to the one Brett Green uses with his Azteks on the Testors Scale Workshop video series, in that I hold it like a knife and use my thumb on the trigger. I'm still quite clunky with it, and revert to the "pen" grip for detail, and will probably never really switch over as I think it works better for the chunky body style the Aztek has, and I use thinner bodied airbrushes. But it does give my index finger a rest!

Keilau,

How convenient it is for you to "forget" you not only have a single action airbrush, but it is precisely the kind that has an air valve that allows modulation of air. Amazing!

I am not the one splitting hairs. I have been as clear and as precise as I can be in expressing myself. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated an ability to put words in my mouth (control is on/off and nothing in between), and have conveniently misconstrued the differences between single and dual action airbrushes, and now you are informing me that I use my Badger airbrushes differently than other users!

I will remind you that you sent me an essay on your thoughts on airbrushes. Let me quote some key sections that are pertinent to this discussion:

I have 5 airbrushes. I have the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS, a Badger 105 Patriot, a Paasche H, a Powercat 203 (Iwata C+ knockoff) and a Powcat (sic) 800 (Badger 155 knockoff). I use only the Iwata and the Badger regularly for modeling...

The Iwata HP-CS is my primary airbrush for most modeling works. Iwata Eclipse HP-CS trigger have very short vertical travel. It is almost like an on-and-off only.

I started with a Paasche H 20+ years ago. It did what I needed. Nice finish without brush marks and covering larger area (1:16 scale tank) relatively fast. I found changing color, upkeeping and cleaning the airbrush a drag. I used it very sparsely and stayed with brush or rattle can most of the time. I still have the Paashce (sic) H in very good condition, but I soldemly (sic) touch it. I changed my view on airbrushing when I got the Iwata a year ago.

Now I know that you have since added an H&S to your stable bringing your total up to six airbrushes, five of which are dual action, but you could remember a detail like ownership of a single action Paasche H in mid February, but not two months later? I find that convenient.

I also find it convenient that you can modulate air with your Iwata, even though you had early noted it's short travel, and how it was "like an on-and-off only."

Frankly, I don't care if you don't like my "way of handling the truth", it is still the truth.

Bgrigg

The trigger grips is more ergonomic, indeed paint guns used in industrial applications are the same design. I have been experimenting with a different grip on my airbrushes similar to the one Brett Green uses with his Azteks on the Testors Scale Workshop video series, in that I hold it like a knife and use my thumb on the trigger. I'm still quite clunky with it, and revert to the "pen" grip for detail, and will probably never really switch over as I think it works better for the chunky body style the Aztek has, and I use thinner bodied airbrushes. But it does give my index finger a rest!

Have you tried the Grex airbrush grip? For people who have a need for a larger grip, it is very good. Feels a bit strange at first, but it is quite comfortable. I have been getting good response on the one I got for myself, when I´ve demostrated it. It fits many airbrushes, not only Grex, even if that is the brand I sell in my shop.

No, I haven't. I have used industrial airguns, and of course gardening nozzles when watering, so I am convinced they would be more comfortable. If I was to purchase another airbrush I would consider a trigger style, but as I already have a collection that I don't use, that is an unlikely event!

I did notice that Grex makes an accessory pistol grip handle for "ordinary" airbrushes, but confess I am at a loss as how they would be more ergonomic as you still have to reach up with the index finger. One would have to try it, but I see from the Grex site that Badger isn't listed, and that Paasche, Vega and Omni don't work due to the larger body size.

It´s mostly making the grip bigger. For people that get strained tendons in the fingers using airbrushes, it´s usually because they cramp when holding on to a small and slick airbrush. It also changes the position in the hand a bit.

If you do change your mind, go with the Tritium series. The XT is a great airbrush as well, but the TG and TS are newer designs. A bit more expensive, but they are worth it.

For those interested, here's some reviews of Grex's pistol grip airbrushes

http://www.masterclassmodels.com/review12.html

http://www.modelretailer.com/en/Product%20News/2010/03/GenesisXT%20airbrush%20and%20compressor%20kit%20from%20Grex.aspx

Here's one of just the adapter grip

http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/tools/grex/tool_grex_ggs1.shtml

waikong

For those interested, here's some reviews of Grex's pistol grip airbrushes

http://www.masterclassmodels.com/review12.html 

 

Nice interview. I only would like to say that the reviewer are wrong in one point. It isn´t based on any proven Iwata design. The trigger actions has been along a lot earlier than when Iwata started to carry them in their line. Iwata makes great airbrushes, but they are neither the only (or the most innovative) airbrush company from Japan.