How are Grex airbrushes?

zokissima

waikong:

zokissma, since I use the Aztek also, I have the same experiene as you. Since I have not really used any other dual action airbrush, I had assume they all worked the same. Evidently they do not and makes the user learn different skills sets.

 

No, I do not think a different skillset is required really; the principles behind the two are the same. To be completely honest, I love my Aztec, but with it varying both air and paint amount, I actually find it a bit more fickle, and the Peak, which functions pretty much as BGrigg and others have described dual-action airbrushes to have, I find that I actually have a far greater degree of usability, and a 'feeling' of greater control.

zokissma, interesting observation.

I found that Iwata and H&S have much more air flow adjustment control compared to the Badger Patriot. (I am not saying what is good or bad. They are definitely quite different.) But I never learned how to use air flow control while painting. In a recent review of the Paasche Talon airbrush, James Bella made this observation:

Right off the bat I noticed a longer downstroke for air then my other brushes, fine atomization and predictable control.

Not sure what other airbrush he referred to. My Iwata and H&S have about 1/8" stroke. I would like to hear from a Talon owner to let us know how long a stroke is that AB.

keilau

zokissma, interesting observation.

I found that Iwata and H&S have much more air flow adjustment control compared to the Badger Patriot. (I am not saying what is good or bad. They are definitely quite different.) But I never learned how to use air flow control while painting. In a recent review of the Paasche Talon airbrush, James Bella made this observation:

Right off the bat I noticed a longer downstroke for air then my other brushes, fine atomization and predictable control.

Not sure what other airbrush he referred to. My Iwata and H&S have about 1/8" stroke. I would like to hear from a Talon owner to let us know how long a stroke is that AB.

I´m not sure he´s talking about the control of the air. He simply says that it has a long stroke, that it atomizes good, and that he feel that the airbrush has good control.

Look again, Faust. I'm quoting Keilau, who is stating he started 20 years ago. Not me.

Get your facts straight. It only makes you look even more foolish than normal.

denstore

 

keilau:

 

zokissma, interesting observation.

I found that Iwata and H&S have much more air flow adjustment control compared to the Badger Patriot. (I am not saying what is good or bad. They are definitely quite different.) But I never learned how to use air flow control while painting. In a recent review of the Paasche Talon airbrush, James Bella made this observation:

Right off the bat I noticed a longer downstroke for air then my other brushes, fine atomization and predictable control.

Not sure what other airbrush he referred to. My Iwata and H&S have about 1/8" stroke. I would like to hear from a Talon owner to let us know how long a stroke is that AB.

 

 

I´m not sure he´s talking about the control of the air. He simply says that it has a long stroke, that it atomizes good, and that he feel that the airbrush has good control.

Dan,

"a longer downstroke for air" is a direct quote. You can go to the link and ask James Bella directly what he meant by that.

Dr. Faust

 

Bgrigg:

 

Faust,

You're not sorry at all. All you do is bounce around this forum and make caustic remarks. You don't want to "listen" to me then don't.

 

 

Show us what ya got   walk the walk and quit the talk

Dude, seriously, what's with the threadcrapping? We're discussing airbrushes here....Are you just trying to get a rise out of someone or what? What I'm asking here is what is your purpose in this thread? Do you have one? And is it relevant to the topic of discussion? If not....

bbrowniii

 

 

 

Zokissma

Perhaps I have become a bit confused as this discussion has evolved.  Is it your opinion that the Aztek is engineered to intentionally give you 'control' over the volume of air at the trigger, or is it simply a consequence of the trigger pull (technically a push in this case, I think?)? 

I ask because, as I said, I get some slight 'control' with my Badger, but I certainly don't think it was intended to be that way - I think it is simply the result of the distance I have to press the trigger to go from 'off' to full 'on'.

Heh, don't get me wrong, as I've said I've used my Aztec, oh for almost 8 years now, and I do love it, but when compared to the Peak and Badger brushes, I don't really know if the term 'engineered' to do anything really applies

The brush has an unusual amount of travel in the up/down motion of the trigger (as opposed to back/forth), so arguably it can be said that it was meant to do this, and it is helpful when used with a low-end compressor with no pressure regulator.

However; I don't know nor can I speculate as to whether this is done intentionally or not. Simply from a quality perspective, the brush just does not compare to the others. And as far as results are concerned it does lend itself more to painting by 'feel' rather than by consistency and repeatability. Thus, factors of paint viscosity, temperature, all of that will affect what you spray down; as opposed to my Peak where I eliminate one factor; varying pressure, by using a regulator, thus giving me more consistent results. Take from that what you will, its not a conclusive answer I know, and I'd probably lean towards this being just a by-product of the simpler Aztec design rather than a 'feature'.

keilau

denstore:

 Dan,

"a longer downstroke for air" is a direct quote. You can go to the link and ask James Bella directly what he meant by that.

Yes, I know, but that doesn´t mean that he´s saying that the second part of the clause, when he mentions atomization and control, has anything to do with the long stroke. He might be saying that it has a longer downstroke than his other airbrushes, and that it atomizes good, and it has good control. He´s not saying that the atomizing and control (of the air) comes because of the long downward stroke. That might be what he want to say, even if it isn´t totally clear. It might be splitting hairs, but as usual, I´m sceptical to statements of controling the airflow with the trigger of modern airbrushes. The gain is extremly small, especially compared to how difficult mastering such a technique would be.

As you can see from the diagram it is a double action.... pull through trigger.  When used properly....air on and slight pull beyond the "detent" or some call a "hard spot" you have a precise control over the flow of liquid that is then atomized internally and thrust through the fluid nozzle.  If some say they can control the air flow on a top down double action trigger.... then why has Iwata introduced the air flow valve on there quick disconnect the same as the GREX quick connect w/air flow valve that was introduced many months prior?  There is a need n some applications to reduce pressure ie. stenciling and make -up, but is done by an external valve not the trigger!!!

Bgrigg

Get your facts straight. It only makes you look even more foolish than normal.

Is that possible Bill? This guy is a real piece of work. 

Hey Faust, let's see what you can do? Get a T-shirt and airbrush your best and I will do the same!

JerC, if you read through all the posts, you will see that most Double Action brushes is as you described, but there are a few where there is much more up/down travel to the trigger that allows control of air. I'm not saying that's the way to go or which is better, just that the differences do exist. Something that I didn't know (and apparently many others) before this thread.

I have to agree with Bgrigg here, I was at the AMPS show in Auburn In. and tried out the Grex airbrush. It's a really nice airbrush and I asked the rep. directly if you could regulate the airflow with the trigger. She said no, you regulate the amount of paint but the first part of the trigger pull is for air, then you start to regulate the amount of paint with the rest of the pull. If you want to regulate the air use your pressure gauge on your compressor. All in all it's a pretty nice tool to have.

Let me preface my post by saying I have not read much of this thread, and I am short on time to elaborate, but a friend asked for my two cents on this subject so I'm giving it.

Theoretically the up and down movement of the trigger can moderate airflow dependant on the restriction the form and travel of the relevant trigger assembly components cause or allow on the air flow - and this will vary from airbrush to airbrush, but is usually consistent within a brand.  However, as an airbrush manufacture and having 30 plus years working with all levels of user skill it is difficult to recommend the up and down movement of the trigger as the means to moderate airflow.  This method of moderation is difficult as it is difficult to maintain the up/down depression as you slide the trigger back and forth to adjust your paint volume.  I'm not saying it can't be done!  I'm just saying for most folks it is isn't easy to perfect this means of air flow regulation.  I would be more apt to recommend the usage of a good regulator on your air source or one of the new PAC (Badger) or MAC (Iwata) valves that can be put on your airbrush right at the valve stem where the air hose attaches.  Anyhow, I'm off to Wonderfest, so I don't have time to write more, although I probably could - but to summarize - yes, theoretically you can adjust air pressure with the up and down movement of the trigger, but it is not the best or easiest way to moderate airflow on an airbrush.

Take air,

ken

Mark 10:27

Badger Air-Brush Co. - American Made Airbrush Excellence!

www.badgerairbrush.com

kenbadger

Theoretically the up and down movement of the trigger can moderate airflow dependant on the restriction the form and travel of the relevant trigger assembly components cause or allow on the air flow - and this will vary from airbrush to airbrush, but is usually consistent within a brand. 

but it is not the best or easiest way to moderate airflow on an airbrush.

Take air,

ken

Mark 10:27

Badger Air-Brush Co. - American Made Airbrush Excellence!

www.badgerairbrush.com

Ken, you directly contradicted the expert on this forum.

Bgrigg

Well, I've never heard of an airbrush that has a modulating trigger for airflow.

I just fired mine up to see if I could feel a difference in air flow with my Badger 100LG, and it sure seems to me that it is either on or off.

From the Badger website on airbrush information:

SINGLE ACTION refers to airbrushes on which the trigger controls only the air flow. The amount of fluid is regulated by turning the needle adjustment screw. When the trigger is depressed, a pre-set amount of fluid is sprayed

By which they mean on or off. I have a Badger 200, and a Badger 350 clone, and both require the needle to be pre-set, and the trigger operates whether the air is on, or off.

It would be analogous to compare an airbrush to a handgun, pulling the trigger harder doesn't fire the bullet any faster.

The only air control I've seen on an airbrush are the MAC control valves as offered by Grex, Iwata and others. paints.

I am also waiting for an answer from Ken at Badger for clarification from him on air flow control with Badger airbrushes, and will post when I have that information.

I suspect you are trolling to see what reactions you can get by arguing and splitting hairs. Begone Troll.

LOL

Theoretically a siphon can work in a vacuum.

You're the "show me" man, Keilau.

Grab a video and show me how you control the airflow of your airbrush with only the trigger.

Still trolling for reactions?

Oh, and I've never claimed to be an expert. Before I made any statement here, I pulled out my airbrush to see if it was possible. When questioned I contacted two experts for their reaction. Both said it was possible, but too difficult to use.

Your point is getting blunter.

keilau

kenbadger:

Theoretically the up and down movement of the trigger can moderate airflow dependant on the restriction the form and travel of the relevant trigger assembly components cause or allow on the air flow - and this will vary from airbrush to airbrush, but is usually consistent within a brand. 

but it is not the best or easiest way to moderate airflow on an airbrush.

Take air,

ken

Mark 10:27

Badger Air-Brush Co. - American Made Airbrush Excellence!

www.badgerairbrush.com

 

Ken, you directly contradicted the expert on this forum.

You're a real piece of work Keilau.  Parsing Ken's words to launch an attack on Bill.  That's brilliant!  By the way, did you bother to READ what Ken really said?  Do you understand what the word THEORETICALLY means?

A real piece of work, indeed...

By the way, how's that $50 compressor challenge of yours goin'?

MikeV

Bgrigg:

Get your facts straight. It only makes you look even more foolish than normal.

 

Is that possible Bill? This guy is a real piece of work. 

Hey Faust, let's see what you can do? Get a T-shirt and airbrush your best and I will do the same!

Game on,, and don't show up with those t shirts from your glory days. New season new game my friend.

Just make sure the t shirt your wearing is the one you want me to put some hairline on. LOL

See ya in Tucson @ the AB Corral

Dr

MikeV

Bgrigg:

Get your facts straight. It only makes you look even more foolish than normal.

 

Is that possible Bill? This guy is a real piece of work. 

Hey Faust, let's see what you can do? Get a T-shirt and airbrush your best and I will do the same!

Game on,, and don't show up with those t shirts from your glory days. New season new game my friend.

Just make sure the t shirt your wearing is the one you want me to put some hairline on. LOL

See ya in Tucson @ the AB Corral

Dr

bbrowniii

Keilau, if you took my comments as a personal attack, I apologize.  Mea Culpa.

Why doing it again?

keilau

bbrowniii:

Keilau, if you took my comments as a personal attack, I apologize.  Mea Culpa.

 

Why doing it again?

Let's be clear - I have not even BEGUN to get personal...

bbrowniii

keilau:

bbrowniii:

Keilau, if you took my comments as a personal attack, I apologize.  Mea Culpa.

 

Why doing it again?

 

Let's be clear - I have not even BEGUN to get personal...

bbrowniii

keilau:

bbrowniii:

Keilau, if you took my comments as a personal attack, I apologize.  Mea Culpa.

 

Why doing it again?

 

Let's be clear - I have not even BEGUN to get personal...

is begun word?

Dr. Faust

is begun word?

be·gun  (b-gn)

Dr. Faust

is begun word?

Are you freakin' kidding me??!!  No, Faust, it isn't... I just made it up... Oh, nope, wait, I stole it from some guy... you might have heard of him.  His name was John Paul Jones (the sailor, not the musician)...

Alright, Sparky... go over to your hope chest... pull out that High School diploma you pulled out of the Lucky Charms box... tear it into tiny pieces... now flush it down the toilet...

Hey Keilau - see that?  That was personal...

bbrowniii

Dr. Faust:

is begun word?

 

Are you freakin' kidding me??!!  No, Faust, it isn't... I just made it up... Oh, nope, wait, I stole it from some guy... you might have heard of him.  His name was John Paul Jones (the sailor, not the musician)...

Alright, Sparky... go over to your hope chest... pull out that High School diploma you pulled out of the Lucky Charms box... tear it into tiny pieces... now flush it down the toilet...

Hey Keilau - see that?  That was personal...

Cool you guys are  wesome..

Is wesome word?

Bgrigg

Is wesome word?

yep it is

Bgrigg

Dr. Faust:

is begun word?

 

be·gun  (b-gn)

v.

Past participle of begin.

Is "is begun word?" a sentence?

NO!

Faust, I've wasted time searching through your posts for pics of your work, and there sure hasn't been a lot, is there. Put up or shut up.

Bgrigg

Dr. Faust:

is begun word?

 

be·gun  (b-gn)

v.

Past participle of begin.

Is "is begun word?" a sentence?

NO!

Faust, I've wasted time searching through your posts for pics of your work, and there sure hasn't been a lot, is there. Put up or shut up.

 well Itried top find your badge buid...opooppps    nada!!!

Faust, maybe if I can explain something to you, you'll back off. Probably not though.

I started the Studebaker for the 50s build with great hope and intention, even posted a couple of pics.

Then I got into an online scrap with somebody you remind me a lot of, and then that Christmas my wife was diagnosed with inflammatory brea$t cancer, and the wind went out of my modeling sails. Two and a half years later, she's still struggling with it, and I'm struggling to get back on board with numerous builds I have on the go. But I have to say the spark is gone for now. I hang around here trying to help people, but frankly putting up with your $hit makes one real tired.

So how about it? Follow the link to see some bad photography of a so-so kit, and cut the BS out of your sig, and I'll delete the GB Badge until I'm actually finished the kit?

If I'm not mistaken, the Aztek had as one of its early selling points, that you could use it as a single action or a double action airbrush and that air pressure could be adjusted with the trigger button by pulling it back and forth with your forefinger. Did this go by the wayside?

And why don't you guys cool it before you are all sent to the cooler?

Bgrigg

Faust, maybe if I can explain something to you, you'll back off. Probably not though.

I started the Studebaker for the 50s build with great hope and intention, even posted a couple of pics.

Then I got into an online scrap with somebody you remind me a lot of, and then that Christmas my wife was diagnosed with inflammatory brea$t cancer, and the wind went out of my modeling sails. Two and a half years later, she's still struggling with it, and I'm struggling to get back on board with numerous builds I have on the go. But I have to say the spark is gone for now. I hang around here trying to help people, but frankly putting up with your $hit makes one real tired.

So how about it? Follow the link to see some bad photography of a so-so kit, and cut the BS out of your sig, and I'll delete the GB Badge until I'm actually finished the kit?

Bill I truly hope your wife will be ok