Badger Stynylrez gloss black primer

oldermodelguy

I mostly use it because it's single action and has a more than substantial tip size living on it for primer and varnishes

Yep. That's it. I think having a dedicated SA with a .5 or larger needle is a spendid idea. I'd say I don't know what I was thinking restricting the paint flow with the Stynylrez, but it's because I wasn't thinking. As usual.

Greg

 

 

oldermodelguy

I mostly use it because it's single action and has a more than substantial tip size living on it for primer and varnishes

 

 

Yep. That's it. I think having a dedicated SA with a .5 or larger needle is a spendid idea. I'd say I don't know what I was thinking restricting the paint flow with the Stynylrez, but it's because I wasn't thinking. As usual.

 

I've used my Badger 200 with side cup and Stynylrez too, the M needle/tip set is .5. The L is .7 but that .7 is a guzzler on it's best day, that sucker can go through some paint. My main primer brush is the H, it just ticks my boxes with the #3 on there. I know it's too simplistic a design to thrill the brain cells but it just works. For me anyway.

So meanwhile I now have the Badger mixer. I don't see much difference but I question what I see after mixing. I don't think it's lumps but what it is seeminly goes away as you wipe the shaft of the mixer or a mixing stick. It leaves no particles in a paper towel. Odd . I mixed it good, still one spot on the bottom of a thin sludge or something. I'm not worrying about the "phenomenon ", I bet in an hour or two it's clear.

oldermodelguy

So meanwhile I now have the Badger mixer. I don't see much difference but I question what I see after mixing. I don't think it's lumps but what it is seeminly goes away as you wipe the shaft of the mixer or a mixing stick. It leaves no particles in a paper towel. Odd . I mixed it good, still one spot on the bottom of a thin sludge or something. I'm not worrying about it, I bet in an hour or two it's clear.

I think I know just what you mean. Little bumps on the mixer shaft after stirring the primer. Same phenomenon on the disposable pipette when transferring.

I've always shaken the bottle and dispensed through the dropper, only since this conversation started did I start stirring and using a transfer pipette. So it's coincidental that you mentioned it. The little bumps have me confounded too.

I figured these were the globs you mentioned, so last night I ran some freshly stirred product through some strainer material I procured. Expected globs, nothing. Just as you said. Best I can come up with is bubbles, but that doesn't make sense either.

My new product arrived today from USA airbrush. So far I've done a comparison with the old vs new white, I don't see any difference, so for now I'm leaning towards not a shelf life issue.

Greg

 

My new product arrived today from USA airbrush. So far I've done a comparison with the old vs new white, I don't see any difference, so for now I'm leaning towards not a shelf life issue.

 

Well other than probably having more primer than you need what you report is actually good news. I think ?

I'm thinking the lump/bumps are foam. Once the air goes out they're gone. I've just never seen paint act like this or you might see something odd for a minute. But since this whole thread came along I've shot either straight black or black mixed with white 3 times with no issue. And speaking of white, well I'll stop there. And by the way I have no intentions of moving away from Stynylrez primer.

I shot more black stynylrez today. Where I mixed it yesterday with my new Magic Wand lol, I opted to just swirl the bottle around a few times this morning and pour some in the cup. It went on nice and smooth, dried quick in the cooker for 15 minutes. And I shot Tamiya X4 Blue right on it within half hour or so. Looks good.

I'll be curious to hear about the gloss black along the way, Greg. Or anything further about blobs for that matter.

do you all spray it straight or thin it??

Have been following this out of curiousity bc i recently got some of this for the 1st time.  I took the 4oz bottle i have used once and earlier today stirred it up. Then while looking into the bottle tilted it a little.  As i tilted there were bubbles that formed.  They did not expand or rise out of the bottle but seemed to form when i tilted the bottle and with the air exposure to the surface - they formed and moved around as i rotated the bottle.  I then put the cap back on and dropped some into my 105 Patriot and sprayed non-dilluted at 25psi.  Besides the dry tip and bubbling in the cup i had no issues.

Straight up!

Mrchntmarine

do you all spray it straight or thin it??

 

Have been following this out of curiousity bc i recently got some of this for the 1st time.  I took the 4oz bottle i have used once and earlier today stirred it up. Then while looking into the bottle tilted it a little.  As i tilted there were bubbles that formed.  They did not expand or rise out of the bottle but seemed to form when i tilted the bottle and with the air exposure to the surface - they formed and moved around as i rotated the bottle.  I then put the cap back on and dropped some into my 105 Patriot and sprayed non-dilluted at 25psi.  Besides the dry tip and bubbling in the cup i had no issues.

 

Usually straight from the bottle. I thin it just slightly if I use my 200 with .25 tip ( rare) mostly because it feels better I think. I say that because it will go through the .25 if I open it up a bit more but thinned slightly I can shoot at a setting with less build up on the model surface. But even when built up it still levels well. The key is follow the instructions they are basically dead on lol. I saw where some guy on youtube thins the daylights out of the stuff, not sure what his point is but it didn't come out any different than anyone elses and took 5 coats to get there..

Honestly I didn't stop to check my exact setting today for air pressure but it was lower than usual, maybe 18 psi or so, under 25 anyway because it was below that distingquished mark on my gauge. I go by flow and how it lays down, all looked well. Paasche H #3 needle.

Mrchntmarine

do you all spray it straight or thin it??

 

Have been following this out of curiousity bc i recently got some of this for the 1st time.  I took the 4oz bottle i have used once and earlier today stirred it up. Then while looking into the bottle tilted it a little.  As i tilted there were bubbles that formed.  They did not expand or rise out of the bottle but seemed to form when i tilted the bottle and with the air exposure to the surface - they formed and moved around as i rotated the bottle.  I then put the cap back on and dropped some into my 105 Patriot and sprayed non-dilluted at 25psi.  Besides the dry tip and bubbling in the cup i had no issues.

 

I guess that makes 3 of us now who are seeing foaming. Doesn't seem to be hurting anything though.

It shouldn't be bubbling or dry-tipping that much....In my case I think it's technique and I'm working on it.

modelmaker66

Straight up!

 

I'll second that, well third it. OMG already agreed.

oldermodelguy

I'll be curious to hear about the gloss black along the way, Greg. Or anything further about blobs for that matter.

Still testing and fiddling with the blobs or foam or whatever it is, and still working to figure out if the tip dry and bubbling is technique or improper mixing or shelf life or whatever.

I did do a quick test shot of the gloss black on a spoon. For this first test, I just shook the bottle. Overall, I'm impressed. Finish is super-durable and I'm going to say it rivals Alclad gloss black at first glance. I counldn't scratch it off the spoon. Crazy fast dry time for a glossy-gloss, too.

As you can see, the finish is slightly pebbly. I'll work on that next test, but I suspect I was too far away with the airbrush and the paint was drying midair.

Testing continues and so will my updates. I appreciate the interest and feedback.

Greg

 

 

Still testing and fiddling with the blobs or foam or whatever it is, and still working to figure out if the tip dry and bubbling is technique or improper mixing or shelf life or whatever.

 I appreciate the interest and feedback.

 

Greg are you getting tip dry even on smaller subject matter or mostly in longer sessions ? And what air pressure do you shoot your Stynylrez applications at ?

At a glance it could be distance in your gloss application but something tells me I'd be inclined to thin it a little bit. I say that based on the droplet size in the over spray pattern, but then we get photo magnification too so it may or may not be so in real.. Thinning with what is something I'd have to work on though and do some test shots myself. Course I don't have the glossy stynylrez black lol.

Longer sessions. But not very long.

What has me confounded is when I started using the stuff a few years back, I would spray and stop and spray and spray and never get dry tip. That's what led me to the expiration theory.

BTW, not a hint of dry tip with the gloss black, but the spoon test was pretty quick.

Something has changed and I'll bet it's me, not the paint.

I spent some time yesterday reading posts about thinning Stynylrez becuase that was my thought, too. You may recall from my rambles I'm a purist and don't like to mix and match products or play Mr Wizard. I mostly worry about changing the chemistry of the paint.

Anyway, all my reading led to not thinning it, and that is Badger's recommendation. I may try anyway, what are you thinning with. Anyone ever try Mr Leveling Thinner with this stuff?

By the way, Stynylrez self-levels so well, the pebbling is the last thing I expected.

Greg

Longer sessions. But not very long.

What has me confounded is when I started using the stuff a few years back, I would spray and stop and spray and spray and never get dry tip. That's what led me to the expiration theory.

BTW, not a hint of dry tip with the gloss black, but the spoon test was pretty quick.

Something has changed and I'll bet it's me, not the paint.

I spent some time yesterday reading posts about thinning Stynylrez becuase that was my thought, too. You may recall from my rambles I'm a purist and don't like to mix and match products or play Mr Wizard. I mostly worry about changing the chemistry of the paint.

Anyway, all my reading led to not thinning it, and that is Badger's recommendation. I may try anyway, what are you thinning with. Anyone ever try Mr Leveling Thinner with this stuff?

By the way, Stynylrez self-levels so well, the pebbling is the last thing I expected.

 

What I can say about thinning probably will be extremely controversial to the forum and some of it may fly against Badger themselves. And let me reiterate I rarely thin it, when I have it was to accomodate a fine needle more to my wishes than really required.. So that said, most to least controversial:

Stynylrez thins with up to 15 or perhaps 20% hardware store lacquer thinner and sprays extremely smoothly ( seriously, very smooth). I believe it also slows the dry slightly. But imo at the higher level you sacrifice some bond in the shorter term ( that seems to be mitigated by dehydrator cooking). The good news is it may only need 10% or even less in reality. Here is the kicker from any viewers perspective right now. I Never Have Sprayed A Model with this combo but it looks too inviting to be true. My scratch test haven't been all that great in the short term short of cooking. I may have to re-visit this on a really well prepared surface . Given more time than average for a scratch test it does hold.

Stynylrez thins and sprays well with iso 91 and probably 70, thinned about the same as with LT. In my experience put in a drop of retarder to the alcohol you want to add in because edge drying of overspray will get a little fuzzy, dries rapidly without the retarder. I use Liquitex retarder, I can't endorse any other because I have no other lol. It's what I use in my home brew thinner as well and anytime anyone sees me comment about retarder and acrylic paint, that's the product I'm refering to. Liquitex's claim is it can be used in any acrylic paint, I can't argue thus far ( 3 years).

Badger only recommends a small amount of water if you feel you need to thin it. I've done it, it works. In my experience less is more as you run the risk of runs, yet again the overspray can be  fuzzy or dusty on dry days in warm dry weather. I found the surface to have slight texture when using water, but that almost brushes off it's so fine. I know others on the forum have used water to good result. I can't speak for them I can only say that to me less is more.

Extra:

Stynylrez sprays well with my home brew thinner as I recall, it's been a while since I used it though and don't recall the specifics. If you think about it it should be almost ideal. Has a little alcohol, water, retarder. My latest addition of traces of Dawn dish soap hasn't been tested. I only ever thinned about 10% if memory serves me right ( the potential exists but I wouldn't bet the bank account on it). I need to get on this and do some more testing but I suspect it's a winner.

As to Mr Leveling thinner, never tried it but I bet it works in small quantities. If regular LT works ML should but be careful not to get heavy handed because ML has retarder in it. Certainly test first. When I shot the LT I mixed it into Styn in a mixing bottle and let it sit expecting separation. The separation never came.. All FWIW. No glop either by the way.

Here is the deal on any of this though, I rarely have thinned more than about 10%, it takes very little thinning to do the job in my experience, even when cutting it for a fine needle.  I saw a guy on the internet ( of course) make up this wonder thinner and cutting the stuff about 1-1, no idea what he was trying to prove but he just kept spraying over and over the model to cover it until he ran out of the blend he made up. Who knows how the bond was in the end, I suspect not great honestly....

So what's the take away : If you want to stay true to the product and Badgers suggested method but still thin it, use about 5-7% water. If you want a velvet smooth finish try the LT knowing you're on your own as to how well that bonds over the long haul and depending how much you thin it because I can't comment on that.. But do experiment, it's loads of fun !!

Thanks for all the input on thinning Stynylrez. Interesting stuff. I'm in experimenting mode for sure.

So as not to leave you hanging on the gloss black, I did a second test spray after a complete airbrush teardown then I flushed with Badger's own airbrush cleaner in an attempt to eliminate any cross- contamination. The black gloss was again shaken, not stirred (but a little longer this time), and I sprayed at about 25 psi as opposed to about 20 last time.

This is after one fairly fast pass. No pebbling at all. Still super tough and durable.

I think this proves the stuff works.

Then I added some MLT for the next coat to see what happened. It sprayed pebbly and dried to a satin finish, so maybe not a good idea with the gloss. And seeing how it changed the properties so much, it makes me hestitant to use it or regular LT on the regular.

Anyway, I got pulled away and hope to do some more testing today. I'm starting to wonder about my pressure gauge, and I want to try 30 psi since 25 seemed to work so much better than 20.

Also, I'm finding that trigger pulled all the way back (in my mind, to simulate a single action brush, sort of) goes through a cup of paint in seconds. (You had mentioned this above). That can't be right, no? I think I was babying the trigger, but maybe all the way back isn't the answer.

I'll bet the airbrush pros are laughing so hard reading my ramblings.......

Greg

Thanks for all the input on thinning Stynylrez. Interesting stuff. I'm in experimenting mode for sure.

So as not to leave you hanging on the gloss black, I did a second test spray after a complete airbrush teardown then I flushed with Badger's own airbrush cleaner in an attempt to eliminate any cross- contamination. The black gloss was again shaken, not stirred (but a little longer this time), and I sprayed at about 25 psi as opposed to about 20 last time.

This is after one fairly fast pass. No pebbling at all. Still super tough and durable.

I think this proves the stuff works.

Then I added some MLT for the next coat to see what happened. It sprayed pebbly and dried to a satin finish, so maybe not a good idea with the gloss. And seeing how it changed the properties so much, it makes me hestitant to use it or regular LT on the regular.

Anyway, I got pulled away and hope to do some more testing today. I'm starting to wonder about my pressure gauge, and I want to try 30 psi since 25 seemed to work so much better than 20.

Also, I'm finding that trigger pulled all the way back (in my mind, to simulate a single action brush, sort of) goes through a cup of paint in seconds. (You had mentioned this above). That can't be right, no? I think I was babying the trigger, but maybe all the way back isn't the answer.

I'll bet the airbrush pros are laughing so hard reading my ramblings.......

 

Well nobody can argue with that finish, pro or not!!

Yes that can be right at full deflection of the trigger but if you think that's bad don't try a .7 at full throttle lol. My DA has what I call a throttle stop ( needle stop in reality). And I use it too but not on styn because I only shoot that single action as mentioned.

So now we know LT is probably not a go on the gloss. I'm hoping to actually do some testing later today on the regular stuff and recheck that adhesion thing. But I am thinking if this goes well of using it on the 1/16 Model A build coming up. I have no bias at this moment as to if the experiment will be successful or not. It will be what it is.

Greg, don't thin stynlrez. shoot it straight at 20-25 psi in a somewhat heavy coat. It levels nicely, great finish, very smooth. If you thin it with oter thinners, or even water you change the make up and the proprties of it.

oldermodelguy

 

 

I'm hoping to actually do some testing later today on the regular stuff and recheck that adhesion thing. But I am thinking if this goes well of using it on the 1/16 Model A build coming up. I have no bias at this moment as to if the experiment will be successful or not. It will be what it is.

 

As everyone knows I too am an advocate of shooting Stynylrez straight from the bottle but:

Yesterday afternoon I prepped a prescription bottle with a simple good wiping down of mineral spirits. I mixed some white Stynylrez with 10-12% regular LT and sprayed a double moderately wet coat, in other words I shot it twice without letting it flash off between the coats. It went on beautifully but it did take the two coats to really hide the amber bottle color, I cooked it for 20 minutes at 108f. It came out dry, then I set it aside overnight.  The scratch test with my fingernail this morning is fine. It's a beautiful satin finish. I shot it with the Paasche H and #3 which needs no thinning of course but for the sake of testing and for answers to questions asked in this thread I decided to do it, knowing that with more thinner the bond was in question but I also question my memory of that whole first test I had made except more thinner was used.

This produced a very thin film with a sheen which is something that appeals to me if to put on a gloss finish as I will be doing on the 1/16 scale 31 Ford ( assuming the thing ever gets here lol). I don't normally thin Stynylrez, when I have it was to accomodate a fine needle. But this result can't be ignored for use on a classic car, especially for the wheels with fine spokes and side louvers of the hood etc.. And this of course is subjectively all my opinion based from this experience. I set the gauge for 25 psi, it shot at 23 or so with the drop from air flow typical in my regulator and typically where I shoot the H with Stynylrez. FWIW.

I consider this tests score to be 100. It gets an A at least the way I shot it. Someone else might think otherwise or get terrible results the way they shoot it, fine with me.

modelmaker66

Greg, don't thin stynlrez. shoot it straight at 20-25 psi in a somewhat heavy coat. It levels nicely, great finish, very smooth. If you thin it with oter thinners, or even water you change the make up and the proprties of it.

 

Agreed. For the life of my I can't figure out why people are adding thinning products to a product that says no thinning needed. I have been spraying Stynylrez with a .3 and .35 needle, at 25 to 30 psi for two years or better and never have issues. I will try the gloss when I can get some and see how it works, I have their metallic silver on order to try. Does dry tip occure? Yes occaissionally as with other products I use, but I don't consider taking a second to wipe off the tip, a major issue. Shake it up, pour it in, and spray away. It's that simple, there is no need to complicate the process.

Tickmagnet

 

 

modelmaker66

Greg, don't thin stynlrez. shoot it straight at 20-25 psi in a somewhat heavy coat. It levels nicely, great finish, very smooth. If you thin it with oter thinners, or even water you change the make up and the proprties of it.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. For the life of my I can't figure out why people are adding thinning products to a product that says no thinning needed. I have been spraying Stynylrez with a .3 and .35 needle, at 25 to 30 psi for two years or better and never have issues. I will try the gloss when I can get some and see how it works, I have their metallic silver on order to try. Does dry tip occure? Yes occaissionally as with other products I use, but I don't consider taking a second to wipe off the tip, a major issue. Shake it up, pour it in, and spray away. It's that simple, there is no need to complicate the process.

 

No question Stynylrez goes on well straight from the bottle, that's never been in question. In fact it's been reiterated over and over. I said in my first post upon being asked about thinning that this would be highly controversial.

But I'm really glad this came up because it's caused me to revisit slight thinning with hardware store lacquer thinner. And 10% thinning with that is emerging a winner for fine detail ( Kleen Strip blue can thinner, can't speak for any other). I don't expect anyone to agree, especially anyone who never tried it. Because lets face it spaghetti was fully life sustaining before anyone dared to put sauce on it and there was no need for sauce just desire.

Edit: I've now gone on to revisit about the same amount of my home brew thinner in Stynylrez. Been a while since I've shot this and I also upgraded my formula a little bit. Great results with this too, really flows both out of the brush and on the surface but yet short of running. I can cut the brush way back and it still flows great. No sign of tip dry at all, never did when I used this before. It's in the dehydrator now, I'll scratch test it tomorrow but I already know it will be fine because it always was before. But I will test to be sure.

But for those who like their spaghetti plain please by all means just ignore this because indeed we all know Stynylrez shoots great from the bottle !! It does seriously.

I been a critic of adding non-recommended agents to paints and "playing Mr Wizard" here too. I'm a purist and here we have a thread discussing what I've been an opponent of

Just to be clear, I too have been shooting Stynylrez for somewhere around 2-4 yrs with almost zero issues. Neat, around 25psi through a .5mm setup. Mostly grey but some black. Dry tip hasn't been an issue. Only recently needed to use some white and having troubles.

I spent hours yesterday testing things and it's not feasable to try to recount my findings here in a paragraph or two. I do have some reason to believe that tin can lacquer thinner may cause congealing, at least with the white.

I surely appreciate all the help and advice.

In the meantime, I seem to be having inconsistent results with everything I try to spray, not just Stynylrez for the past week or so. I've noticed a lot of air in my moisture trap and I am wondering if I have a moisture/water problem. Arrghh.

Yesterday, even my new best pal MRP water-based acrylic wouldn't spray right.

Greg

I been a critic of adding non-recommended agents to paints and "playing Mr Wizard" here too. I'm a purist and here we have a thread discussing what I've been an opponent of

Just to be clear, I too have been shooting Stynylrez for somewhere around 2-4 yrs with almost zero issues. Neat, around 25psi through a .5mm setup. Mostly grey but some black. Dry tip hasn't been an issue. Only recently needed to use some white and having troubles.

I spent hours yesterday testing things and it's not feasable to try to recount my findings here in a paragraph or two. I do have some reason to believe that tin can lacquer thinner may cause congealing, at least with the white.

I surely appreciate all the help and advice.

In the meantime, I seem to be having inconsistent results with everything I try to spray, not just Stynylrez for the past week or so. I've noticed a lot of air in my moisture trap and I am wondering if I have a moisture/water problem. Arrghh.

Yesterday, even my new best pal MRP water-based acrylic wouldn't spray right.

 

If you're having trouble with everything, high humidy may not be helping any. Water in lines, in air etc all work against a really good paint result. In my house I'm due to get the ac back on, it's pretty humid today here. But I tend not to get air in my lines because I run my compressor every few days and turn it off or unplug it even. With the 8 gal tank it doesn't need to cycle very often.

I always thought I was immune to humidity vs airbrushing trouble becuase I am in an air conditioned basement. Right now, I'm thinking not.

I have a tankless hobby compressor that cycles. It's a great little unit and I love it but my question is does having a tank reduce water in line? Reading between the lines in your comment above suggests yes.

I have one of those little mini moisture traps that mounts on the airbrush (came with my HP-CS). I think today I'm going to mount it back up so I have two traps, see if it collects any moisture. The existing one sure as heck is.

Thanks.

Greg

I always thought I was immune to humidity vs airbrushing trouble becuase I am in an air conditioned basement. Right now, I'm thinking not.

I have a tankless hobby compressor that cycles. It's a great little unit and I love it but my question is does having a tank reduce water in line? Reading between the lines in your comment above suggests yes.

I have one of those little mini moisture traps that mounts on the airbrush (came with my HP-CS). I think today I'm going to mount it back up so I have two traps, see if it collects any moisture. The existing one sure as heck is.

Thanks.

 

 

Well put in that little trap and see if it catches anything.

I had a long message typed out on this but I just reduced it down to this. My messages are getting far too long around here.

Me too. I can't help myself. I try.

I took the quick disconnect off one of my a/b's and let the compressor just blow out the hose. The amount of water blowing out shocked me. Not sure what to do aside from adding the second trap, but now I know my basement isn't as dry as I thought.

Greg

Me too. I can't help myself. I try.

I took the quick disconnect off one of my a/b's and let the compressor just blow out the hose. The amount of water blowing out shocked me. Not sure what to do aside from adding the second trap, but now I know my basement isn't as dry as I thought.

 

You just blew my short message theory Greg because everything about this was in my long one I dumped lol !!!

Oh boy. Listen your air is condensing after you water trap, this is common even in 1/1. We had our traps 30 ft from the compressor room, then plumbed back to the first bay. Now and then still got a drop of water here and there. With that much water your answer is to get the main water trap off the compressor, maybe 10 ft of line. Mount your trap, maybe at the booth. Condensation happens as the air cools, obviously it's not cooling enough before your trap. Not sure your little trap will handle that much water but the big one should.

That's as short as I can make it. Well you could also get a second big trap and mount that remotely. The idea is you need your line air to cool before separating out the water.It won't separate as vapor. But hey winter is coming, the air will dry out about Jan !!!!!!!!!!!

I think sharing my hobby airbrush setup is in order so you (and anyone else who cares to chime in) can see what I'm working with.

It's just a little tankless hobby compressor I got when I got started back in the hobby. You can see there is a coiled cord going to the regular/trap which is designed to mount off the compressor which I really liked when I bought it. I suppose the long hoses from the manifold to the airbrushes aren't helping.

(Please excuse the mess and cord/hose spaghetti)

Thanks.

PS, that pic makes the regular/gauge/trap assy look way bigger than it really is.

Yeh, a compressor with a tank or adding a tank to what you have will make the problem go away. 

Greg

Me too. I can't help myself. I try.

I took the quick disconnect off one of my a/b's and let the compressor just blow out the hose. The amount of water blowing out shocked me. Not sure what to do aside from adding the second trap, but now I know my basement isn't as dry as I thought.