Badger Stynylrez gloss black primer

Greg

I think sharing my hobby airbrush setup is in order so you (and anyone else who cares to chime in) can see what I'm working with.

It's just a little tankless hobby compressor I got when I got started back in the hobby. You can see there is a coiled cord going to the regular/trap which is designed to mount off the compressor which I really liked when I bought it. I suppose the long hoses from the manifold to the airbrushes aren't helping.

(Please excuse the mess and cord/hose spaghetti)

Thanks.

PS, that pic makes the regular/gauge/trap assy look way bigger than it really is.

 

I see you added the secondary water trap at the gun. You indicated you might do that, do you think it is helping ? It's silly to start making a bunch of suggestions before knowing that information.

Wingman_kz

Yeh, a compressor with a tank or adding a tank to what you have will make the problem go away. 

 

Thanks, Wingman. That is the more expensive answer but things are not at all ok the way they are.

Thanks, Jon.

I'm a little confused, though. I get there easily, help me out....

Jon_a_its

I had a Rotring compressor with a tank and the water trap/gauge was on the compressor end. Then it started to give me spitting & adhesion issues when spraying.

Ok, got that....

Jon_a_its

I added a mini-water trap to the airbrush, which showed my compressor was delivering air, oil & water in roughly equal quantities, but this was barely showing in the compressor, presumably as it was not cooling down enough when in use.

Clear.

Jon_a_its

Now I have a small generic compressor with tank, that I empty with the safety valve when finished, to prevent any water build up in the tank.

So did the new, smaller compressor with tank make the water problem go away or reduce it? Why did you replace the other one, are you saying that adding the mini trap to the gun proved that the compressor was producing too much water in the line?

IOW, if the new smaller compressor with tank solved the problem, and the old bigger tank had a compressor too, what was causing the excess water and again, what made you replace the old one?

Sorry I'm so dense.

oldermodelguy

I see you added the secondary water trap at the gun. You indicated you might do that, do you think it is helping ? It's silly to start making a bunch of suggestions before knowing that information.

I haven't really messed with it much, but after I saw how much water is being spit out through an open hose with the compressor running constantly, I can't see how the little trap will be effective enough.

The silver lining here is at least now I know why the more I spray the worse my troubles. That's been driving me batty for a couple of seasons now, at least I'm pretty sure it's water in the lines now.

I did tear down the little Sparmaxx regulator/separator/gauge as far as I could. I can't tell what the separator material is, but it doesn't look very substantial. I'd swear it almost looks like a paper filter. Internal parts aren't replaceable far as I can see.

Also, water isn't filling up in the collection vessel. For the amount of water being produced, it certainly should be. Just enough to spit in my hand when opening the release valve.

I got a better regulator/separator/gauge combo at Menards last night, but it's all 3/8 NPT and by the time I go through all the fittings and temper tantrums required to make it all work, I have 25% of a new compressor.

If a compressor with a tank makes this all go away, I'm ready to pull the trigger.

I use a Campbell Housefeld 10 gallon compressor to air brush and do other things in the garage. To airbrush I have a regulator and water trap similar to yours Greg and living in super humid Florida weather it filters out all moisture every time from the air line. I unscrew the compressor's plug every couple of weeks or so and empty out collected water. The plastic bowl in the trap also gets flushed now and then. 

Greg

I always thought I was immune to humidity vs airbrushing trouble becuase I am in an air conditioned basement. Right now, I'm thinking not.

I have a tankless hobby compressor that cycles. It's a great little unit and I love it but my question is does having a tank reduce water in line? Reading between the lines in your comment above suggests yes.

I have one of those little mini moisture traps that mounts on the airbrush (came with my HP-CS). I think today I'm going to mount it back up so I have two traps, see if it collects any moisture. The existing one sure as heck is.

Thanks.

 

 

You asked the question and I answered, is there a problem with that? I didn't say you had to buy one.

If you have a compressor with a tank, the tank not only holds pressure in reserve it acts as seperater or moisture trap.  The only tank you have now is your air line and that doesn't provide much room for air and water to separate and it can over power a moisture trap. You get water in the hose and it just blows on through. 

Years ago I bought an Iwata Sprint Jet compressor. Wasn't my first choice but it had to be quiet and I had to have it immediately. No tank, no auto shutoff, just a bleed valve. First off, the bleed valve was annoying. Second, no tank meant pulsing as I sprayed. Third, it was summer and it didn't take long to get moisture in the line. I didn't really know what to do so I asked here. Someone suggested adding an inline tank. I just happened to still have my previous air compressor which was a small CH with a tank. I bought a couple fittings, disconnected the line from the motor cylinder to the tank on the old compressor and ran a line from my new compressor to the tank. Problems solved. No bleed valve, no pulsing and no moisture. Yeh, I still had to manually turn it on and off but that was no big deal. I was shown how to wire in a pressure switch to that setup but never did it.

I think the Sprint Jet lasted 6 or 7 years. Then I bought a Harbor Freight airbrush compressor and it's lasted another 7 or 8 years. I still have this setup. But this past spring I bought a small Fortress compressor from Harbor Freight and retired the previous one.

Im guessing you're in the US somewhere and from what I've seen on the news this summer has been warmer than normal all across the states. Maybe that's why you're having more water in the line. Just a guess. Maybe you could add a separator or another moisture trap. Maybe disconnect the first coiled hose and blow the water out. I don't know. You asked if a compressor with a tank would act differently and I said yes. Here's my lengthy explanation. Good luck. 

Greg

 

 

 

 

I haven't really messed with it much, but after I saw how much water is being spit out through an open hose with the compressor running constantly, I can't see how the little trap will be effective enough.

The silver lining here is at least now I know why the more I spray the worse my troubles. That's been driving me batty for a couple of seasons now, at least I'm pretty sure it's water in the lines now.

I did tear down the little Sparmaxx regulator/separator/gauge as far as I could. I can't tell what the separator material is, but it doesn't look very substantial. I'd swear it almost looks like a paper filter. Internal parts aren't replaceable far as I can see.

Also, water isn't filling up in the collection vessel. For the amount of water being produced, it certainly should be. Just enough to spit in my hand when opening the release valve.

I got a better regulator/separator/gauge combo at Menards last night, but it's all 3/8 NPT and by the time I go through all the fittings and temper tantrums required to make it all work, I have 25% of a new compressor.

If a compressor with a tank makes this all go away, I'm ready to pull the trigger.

 

I see. I don't know if a small hobby type tank compressor will fix it all, it certainly won't hurt anything and then air trap... I have 0 trouble with water with my 8 gal but that's the smallest compressor I've ever had ( remember I shot 1/1 so this is my retirement compressor for around the house as well as airbrushing, I got it before I retired actually, had it may be 8 years now never a water issue airbrushing). I can only speak for myself at this point because I've never used those little hobby compressors. But even a 1 gal is going to expand those gasses before the water trap..

I notice for well under $200 Campbell has a low dba 8 gal. Just sayin..... Not everyones cup of tea for sure though...

Wingman_kz

have a tankless hobby compressor that cycles. It's a great little unit and I love it but my question is does having a tank reduce water in line? Reading between the lines in your comment above suggests yes.

That is exactly what I was wondering and why I asked you for more info. Thank you, that's very helpful and that makes perfect sense.

Wingman_kz

You asked the question and I answered, is there a problem with that? I didn't say you had to buy one.

Not quite sure what button I pushed to elicit this response, but whatever it was, sorry.

plasticjunkie

I use a Campbell Housefeld 10 gallon compressor to air brush and do other things in the garage. To airbrush I have a regulator and water trap similar to yours Greg and living in super humid Florida weather it filters out all moisture every time from the air line. I unscrew the compressor's plug every couple of weeks or so and empty out collected water. The plastic bowl in the trap also gets flushed now and then. 

 

Thanks, Ernie. If you are spraying in the garage in FL, and you have a simple air trap like mine and a 10 gallon tank, that just backs up what Wingman said about the tank acting as a separator.

That helps, thanks.

For some reason my reply was posted as I was typing. I dont know why. Something to do with these popup ads would be my guess. I used the edit function to go back and finish.

OMB, and so you too have a tank, and a decent sized one at that.

So here's where I'm at today. I've confirmed my separator is working. It has one of those little toy toilet paper-looking roll things as a separator medium, and it is working just fine. But it can't keep up. Not even close.

In an attempt to keep this short, I think my main problem is that my compressor is undersized and lacks a tank.

I may replace accordingly, and move the regulator/separator off the tank as well.

Thanks for all the input, everyone.

Greg

OMB, and so you too have a tank, and a decent sized one at that.

So here's where I'm at today. I've confirmed my separator is working. It has one of those little toy toilet paper-looking roll things as a separator medium, and it is working just fine. But it can't keep up. Not even close.

In an attempt to keep this short, I think my main problem is that my compressor is undersized and lacks a tank.

I may replace accordingly, and move the regulator/separator off the tank as well.

Thanks for all the input, everyone.

 

 

Good deduction ! I wish you luck and I think you will find this to be a good move. Let us know what you're looking at or get etc...

oldermodelguy

Good deduction ! I wish you luck and I think you will find this to be a good move.

Thanks. I would not have figured this out without this discussion. Today it occured to me that all of you having no issues (even Ernie down in the tropics) have real compressors (with tanks).

I concluded my scratch test on the grey primer I shot yesterday with 10% of my home brew thinner in it. It's fine.

This is the end of that little saga, I said I'd report back, done deal. I think Greg ( who asked about thinning in the first place) is moving on to other pastures at this point anyway.

Signed sealed and delivered.

My phone is not cooperating today and will not allow me to create a hyperlink. I'll copy and paste and maybe you can do the same.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CSYL4JM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_nTTqFbKPHWZRB

Or maybe it will work. Lol

Anyway, it's a link to a small air tank on Amazon. It's 1/2 gallon or approx 2 liters. If you scroll down the page there is also a larger 1.5 gallon tank. They're intended for use with air horns but are rated for 120psi and 165psi respectively so they should be fine if you wanted to add one to your setup and avoid buying a new compressor. They each have 5 ports so you could have an inlet, exit, drain and plug the other two. Some airbrush compressors use 2 liter tanks and some use slightly larger. Just a thought. 

And Greg, my apologies to you. You did nothing wrong. I misread. My fault. 

Wingman, thanks! I didn't know where to start if I decide to just add a tank, now I do.

And no worries at all. I talk/type too much and that can lead to misunderstanding.

And I forgot to mention to you that you are correct, it has been a hot and humid summer here. I always thought it didn't matter since I am in a cool basement in air conditioned house. In the past couple days, you guys have helped me learn otherwise.

oldermodelguy

I concluded my scratch test on the grey primer I shot yesterday with 10% of my home brew thinner in it. It's fine.

This is the end of that little saga, I said I'd report back, done deal. I think Greg ( who asked about thinning in the first place) is moving on to other pastures at this point anyway.

Signed sealed and delivered.

 

Thanks for reporting back, I was curious and glad it worked out for you.

Wherever I'm moving, it won't be fast.

Greg, you could mount that tank anywhere, don't forget a drain. I considered mentioning something similar but since you stated the cost creeping up towards a compressor cost I backed off. Plus a couple of other things, like size and your existing compressors shut off pressure. It's kind of experimentalish. I'm spoiled where I start draining my tank of air at 125psi. If I decided to run my compressor, it will make up the air while airbrushing almost as quickly as if not once down to where it kicks on. My experience in the past with undersized compressor volume is a bigger tank will keep the compressor off till it kicks on which will be relatively soon with a small tank and then may not recover as long as you spray, once you stop spraying it will then catch up. So if you're under rated now, what you will gain is running the air through the tank but it's not gonna run much less if my theory is right.. I'm not 100% sure this is a cure, so I decided to be still for a change. Now it's too late for that yet once again lol !!

Just me but I really think you're on the right track with a more substantial tank style compressor. But hey, I'm the last one to talk about actual hobby compressors because I've never owned them.  So with that I'll let those who have make their exchanges with you. And it may work just fine, if it doesn't run much less at least the air may cool and you can get the water out........ You have enough line there you probably didn't get pulsing but if so the tank will serve to cushion that too.

Hey Greg, not trying to talk you into or sell you anything but I saw that Harbor Freight has these air compressors on sale:

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-gallon-135-psi-ultra-quiet-hand-carry-jobsite-air-compressor-64596.html

I have the smaller 1 gal version and I believe it's Goldhammer that has this one. I can't speak to their life span but I'm happy with it's performance. And it is quiet.

Wingman_kz

Hey Greg, not trying to talk you into or sell you anything but I saw that Harbor Freight has these air compressors on sale:

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-gallon-135-psi-ultra-quiet-hand-carry-jobsite-air-compressor-64596.html

I have the smaller 1 gal version and I believe it's Goldhammer that has this one. I can't speak to their life span but I'm happy with it's performance. And it is quiet.

 

That's a good-looking unit. Thanks, Wingman.

I'm afraid I already pulled the trigger though. In hindsight, the one you posted would probably have served me as well, for a bit less money. I thought an aluminum tank was really important, and payed a little more accordingly. I don't suppose I'll ever know. For all I know this one you posted has one, but they don't say so.

In the meantime, today will be the last tests with Stynylrez Gloss Black using nice, dry air. So far, results are not promising.

Thanks again for all the help with my compressor questions. Oh, and by the way, you were sure right about that coiled hose. It is pretty much necessary for the smaller tankless hobby compressor to minimize the pulsing, but it was even producing some consensate from the new compressor (New hose hadn't shown up yet and I wanted to compare the air from the coiled hose vs a shorter proper hose anyway)

So Greg what compressor did you get ? Inquiring minds etc...!

oldermodelguy

So Greg what compressor did you get ? Inquiring minds etc...!

 

I'm a bit hesitant to say, because I'm not yet convinced I made a smart choice. But the Paasche 850R was and is on sale at Midwest Airbrush with free shipping. It drop shipped from Paasche and took less than 48hrs to arrive, which surprised me.

I'm not unhappy. Perhaps I paid too much because it say "Paasche" on it. I hope I never find out, becuase that would mean I had to buy another compressor.

I somehow had myself convinced that this would be quieter than the big box store compressors (I don't trust db level claims, so who knows). Again, hope I never find out.

For the same or less money, I realize I could have more capacity, PSI, and CFM. Anyway, it is dry and if I ever make the plunge to a small fan-pattern mini spray gun, at least this thing should be able to handle it. Marginally. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

Greg

 

 

oldermodelguy

So Greg what compressor did you get ? Inquiring minds etc...!

 

 

 

 

I'm a bit hesitant to say, because I'm not yet convinced I made a smart choice. But the Paasche 850R was and is on sale at Midwest Airbrush with free shipping. It drop shipped from Paasche and took less than 48hrs to arrive, which surprised me.

I'm not unhappy. Perhaps I paid too much because it say "Paasche" on it. I hope I never find out, becuase that would mean I had to buy another compressor.

I somehow had myself convinced that this would be quieter than the big box store compressors (I don't trust db level claims, so who knows). Again, hope I never find out.

For the same or less money, I realize I could have more capacity, PSI, and CFM. Anyway, it is dry and if I ever make the plunge to a small fan-pattern mini spray gun, at least this thing should be able to handle it. Marginally. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

 

One thing about Paasche compressors is they have Paasche backing and nice paint. If they aren't any different in any other way from generic or HF, they have that going for them. I'd like to think Paasche puts a certain standard in for manufacture though, I'd almost bet on it. I haven't known anyone who got a Paasche comp and started ragging on it's quality. And then there is the very witness of the item itself, it's working for you !! No second guessing here, Greg, glad you got it .

It's a 3/4 hp compressor, it will do better than just barely keep up with the fan cap.

Looks like a winner to me Greg! Good for you. That Harbor Freight ad popped up on Facebook the other day and just thought I'd pass it on. They do use a steel tank. I like Midwest, I've had good luck with them. Enjoy!

Thanks for you help, and your kind support of my purchase OMG and Wingman.

I didn't want to leave this thread out in cyberspace forever with my last comment about Stynylrez Gloss being not so good.

It lays down great. Finish is similar to properly applied Alclad black base, IMO.

All the problems were caused by a comedy of operator errors and experimenting that I should not have been doing while learning to spray the stuff.

Greg

Thanks for you help, and your kind support of my purchase OMG and Wingman.

I didn't want to leave this thread out in cyberspace forever with my last comment about Stynylrez Gloss being not so good.

It lays down great. Finish is similar to properly applied Alclad black base, IMO.

All the problems were caused by a comedy of operator errors and experimenting that I should not have been doing while learning to spray the stuff.

 

Ok then, so it's good stuff !!!

Greg

 

 

oldermodelguy

So Greg what compressor did you get ? Inquiring minds etc...!

 

 

 

 

I'm a bit hesitant to say, because I'm not yet convinced I made a smart choice. But the Paasche 850R was and is on sale at Midwest Airbrush with free shipping. It drop shipped from Paasche and took less than 48hrs to arrive, which surprised me.

I'm not unhappy. Perhaps I paid too much because it say "Paasche" on it. I hope I never find out, becuase that would mean I had to buy another compressor.

I somehow had myself convinced that this would be quieter than the big box store compressors (I don't trust db level claims, so who knows). Again, hope I never find out.

For the same or less money, I realize I could have more capacity, PSI, and CFM. Anyway, it is dry and if I ever make the plunge to a small fan-pattern mini spray gun, at least this thing should be able to handle it. Marginally. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

 

Im jealous!  I always thought my badger tc910 was quiet, until, i just put the meter on it, A weighted If i remember correctly, just around 75-77db.  Fooey.

Greg

Thanks, Jon.

I'm a little confused, though. I get there easily, help me out....

 So did the new, smaller compressor with tank make the water problem go away or reduce it? Why did you replace the other one, are you saying that adding the mini trap to the gun proved that the compressor was producing too much water in the line?

IOW, if the new smaller compressor with tank solved the problem, and the old bigger tank had a compressor too, what was causing the excess water and again, what made you replace the old one?

Sorry I'm so dense. 

Greg, I may not have explained well.

The first symptom I got was acrylic paint bubbling, beading up, not sticking to the model & feeling greasy.

When my Old Rotring failed, it ran hotter than before, and produced water and oil and air.
The water/oil collected in the tank, but barely any in the large trap/regulator atatched to the compressor, as below.
 

I then attached an inline water trap to the airbrush end.
I can only presume the long hose and trap allowed the air to cool enough for the oil/water to condense out in greater volumes.

I now have this generic chinese produced unit, which meets my needs.
I no longer need the inline trap, unless it's very humid, (rare in the UK), & use quick connects to make swapping airbrushes easier.

My unit has the (red) pressure relief/drain valve underneath the tank, so after use, I drain the large trap/regulator first, then the tank drain valve to prevent water build up.

oldermodelguy

Ok then, so it's good stuff !!!

So far I think so, yes.

I keep forgetting to mention regarding our globs. I saw a straining trick online I tried with my new bottle of gloss.

Got some of these paint strainers and cut out the strainer material. Cut out a little square a little bigger than the mouth of the primer bottle mouth, sat it on top and screwed the lid on.

I'm going back to shake and squirt rather than the stir and pipette because it think that was doing no good.

So far so good, but I have little experience yet.

Mrchntmarine

Im jealous! I always thought my badger tc910 was quiet, until, i just put the meter on it, A weighted If i remember correctly, just around 75-77db. Fooey.

That's a good-looking compressor and I gave it a serious look.

Sounds like you have a real db meter. I use an app on my phone and I don't know how accurate it is. But at least I can compare relative noise levels, so I know the Paasche is around 10 db louder than the Sparmaxx.