Tha General Lee , Ironclads and Figures

I took a look at that "Southern Heritage" site. It's one of the silliest sites I've encountered. Unfortunately there's no way to keep junk off the web.

GMorrison

...........I'm fascinated with Limbaugh's take on this. I certainly am way to the left of him, but there's so much room in between there that to hear him see something, anything, in the way I do suggests that it's a pretty widely held opinion. Unless we are both idiots. One or the other I would accept, but we can't both be, can we?

Do you listen to his program each day while at work? 

Sprue-ce Goose

GMorrison

...........I'm fascinated with Limbaugh's take on this. I certainly am way to the left of him, but there's so much room in between there that to hear him see something, anything, in the way I do suggests that it's a pretty widely held opinion. Unless we are both idiots. One or the other I would accept, but we can't both be, can we?

How do you obtain so much information about what Limbaugh says on the air.? 

Do you listen to his program each day while at work? 

"The Confederate Constitution banned the overseas slave trade, and permitted Confederate states to abolish slavery within their borders if they wanted to do so. Slavery wasn’t abolished until 1868, 3 years after the war. Thus Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware still had slaves."

First statement; true if a little twisted- it banned the importation of negroes (slaves) from sources other the the United States. That was ok with them.

Second statement- completely false. That could not be done by law. The only way a Confederate state could "abolish" slavery would be if every single slave holder in that state gave up the practice.

Third statement- also false. If the argument is that the South was not held to the Emancipation Proclamation, or the 13th Amendment because, er, they were no longer a part of the United States, they were.

Fourth Statement- false for the same reasons. And just flat out wrong in the Northern States, Just as an example, Maryland voted on November 1, 1864 by state referendum to abolish slavery.

I'm sorry Jetmaker, but the statement is complete horse droppings, if you will.

mustang1989

Sprue-ce Goose

GMorrison

...........I'm fascinated with Limbaugh's take on this. I certainly am way to the left of him, but there's so much room in between there that to hear him see something, anything, in the way I do suggests that it's a pretty widely held opinion. Unless we are both idiots. One or the other I would accept, but we can't both be, can we?

How do you obtain so much information about what Limbaugh says on the air.? 

Do you listen to his program each day while at work? 

Don't laugh, I know a surprising amount of people that do listen to that kind of thing all day long. Don't get me wrong , it aint a slight against GM in any way. I'm just sayin'......

I did not mean my question as a slight.

Just surprised by how much GM knows about what Rush Limbaugh says about topics.

jtilley

I took a look at that "Southern Heritage" site. It's one of the silliest sites I've encountered

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's the silliest site I've seen - the interwebs' got some doozies - but I gotta agree it's pretty goofy. The quotes from slaves is really off-putting. I think I get what they're trying to do, but that's just some really bizarre waxing nostalgic

No I don't listen to Limbaugh, LOL. But I do my due diligence and I make it a point to read as many points of view as I can. I don't consider Limbaugh to be a reliable source on anything, and outfits like NBC are not far behind in that assessment, but he often has been described as one of the most powerful policy setters in the conservative movement (shudder) so you need to listen.

Transcripts of his broadcasts are available online.

Well, I'm gonna insert a very rare Confederate penny's worth:

I find it difficult to believe the Confederacy could have banned slavery.

I recall reading comments about the inability of President Jefferson Davis to obtain full wartime cooperation by various Confederate State politicians.

GMorrison

No I don't listen to Limbaugh, LOL. But I do my due diligence and I make it a point to read as many points of view as I can. I don't consider Limbaugh to be a reliable source on anything, and outfits like NBC are not far behind in that assessment, but he often has been described as one of the most powerful policy setters in the conservative movement (shudder) so you need to listen.

Transcripts of his broadcasts are available online.

I'm going to steer this slightly in a different direction if I can, and get directly back to the title of this post.

It's been discussed here quite a bit that the motivations of the South to fight a war are complex, going beyond slavery. In the minds of the combatants, was preserving slavery front and center important? I don't know, and Dr. Tilley cited a book taken from letters that indicates a wider set of motivations.

Just to take two examples, Lee and Pickett. Both graduated USMA, Lee with the second best set of marks ever. I could look it up, but I think the best went to a guy named Mason, in the same class. My Great Grandfather Morrison graduated in 1903, something like 75th. There was some other guy, MacArthur, in his class. Lee's wife Mary Custis was descended from Martha Washington, her great grand daughter, and Lee himself was a distant cousin of George. He was as American as it gets.

By the way, he did own slaves, as did his wife who had inherited her own, and they worked on the plantation he shared with her. His mother in law had ordered they be freed in 1857, on the condition that their Arlington plantation was fiscally sound, under a sort of five year plan. Lee went to court to argue, and won, that he needed the full five years to do it. (Washington Post, May 6 2011)

Pickett served the Union with distinction against the British in Puget Sound I think in 1859.

Lee was offered command of the entire Union Army by Lincoln. He chose instead to return to Virginia.

GMorrison

I'm going to steer this slightly in a different direction if I can, and get directly back to the title of this post.

Probably just as well.

I was beginning to wonder if typing the word " Limbaugh "

too many times triggers some sort of lockdown

Spruce what you said abt major network news is exactly what I was inferring. But I say listen to it all, use some judgement. In full disclosure though, I don;t listen to either Fox or The Dailey show for anything more than amusement.

GMorrison

Spruce what you said abt major network news is exactly what I was inferring. But I say listen to it all, use some judgement. In full disclosure though, I don;t listen to either Fox or The Dailey show for anything more than amusement.

I also concur with that. I haven't found anything on television that strikes me as what I would consider serious "news reporting". That leaves papers - which have mostly become very tabloid-ish and over-editorialized - and the longform periodicals - which are the same as the papers, just more words - and the internet - which can be great, but there's a ton of slag to sift through to find a few decent nuggets. It's ironic that in the "information age" there seems to be a preponderance of misinformation, disinformation and plain ignorance (not discounting myself from that either). I guess that's why I don't get too wrapped up in the news du jour. It just seems like some kind of Machiavellian marketing game. Diversion and distraction. There's a lot of very, very serious stuff happening that doesn't get discussed, I think, because it's simply not trending, which seems more important to the media sphere than real human concerns. I guess I'm jaded or something

You aren't alone, Jetmaker.

I've been having a similar experience.

You are obviously very smart guys. A sense of humor is a sure sign of intelligence. Read three newspapers online. I read USA Today, the San Jose Mercury and the local bird cage flooring; the SF Chronicle.

Don't watch tv news; it's designed for the 15 second attention span.

GMorrison

.........................and the local bird cage flooring; the SF Chronicle.

Don't watch tv news; it's designed for the 15 second attention span.

Its true, not to mention we have no news station that is in the middle.   WAY left or WAY right.  Listen to Fox then ABC and the situation is right in the middle.  Both do have certain points correct then the slant comes rolling in.  

Honestly the BBC and Canadian News tend to throw both sides portrayals which is good to see.  However we never actually get the full view of things.  

That quote about the Confederate Constitution banning the slave trade is even more ridiculous than GM noted.

The United States Constitution guaranteed that the U.S. Congress would keep its hands off the overseas slave trade for twenty years - i.e., until 1808. That was one of several concessions to persuade the southern delegates to sign the document. Shortly after that provision expired, Congress did pass a law banning the importation of slaves from overseas. From that point onward all slaves in the U.S. were either descendants of other American slaves or smuggled in illegally. The South had been getting along without legally imported slaves for more than fifty years before it seceded.

The U.S. Navy's Africa Squadron had the job of trying to shut down the transatlantic slave trade. It had scarcely any success. Donald Canney's book on the subject attributes the Africa Squadron's dismal record, in part, to the Navy's refusal to assign steamships to the mission, and to the fact that most of the Secretaries of the Navy in the mid-19th century were southerners.

Interesting conversation gentlemen!  

On the subject of the Confederate Airforce, some of you may remember this one :

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/p/138207/1436827.aspx#1436827

Texgunner

Interesting conversation gentlemen!  

On the subject of the Confederate Airforce, some of you may remember this one :

I hadn't seen that build.

I like the "low vis" marking design. 

Anyone do a build for the "Sovereign State of Texas" ? 

Greetings from Southern Maryland. Just sitting in my hotel room with my family after a trip to our Nation's Capitol. Went to the Smithsonian of Natural History Musuem and Smithsonian Museum of American History. Touring The Price of Freedom there is worth seeing starting from the beginning of the American Revolution right up to Desert Storm. Interestingly enough, I found out something I never knew regarding the Confederate Flag. the so-called Stars and Bars that SC banned, was NOT the original Confederate Flag for the Confederate States of America. Keep in mind, 7 ( or was it 8? I forget) states seceded.the first flag was red, white, red stripes with blue corner box with 8 stars in a circle. The stars and bars came later.

Another interesting thing I completely forgot and a lot of folks didn't realize at the time is our first President of the United States, George Washington was a southerner from Virginia and owned slaves himself. Kinda ironic isn't it?

Four of the first five Presidents were Virginians; John Adams of Massachusetts was the exception.  That's the "Virginia Dynasty" that's sometimes referenced in Presidential discussions.   Sorry, old history teacher and History major,  I just can't help myself!

Gary

There's a good wiki article about the CSA flags. The original Secession flag had a blue cross in the manner of St. George (vertical/ horizontal) that was replaced in large part over concern that it excluded Jewish people.

Virginia certainly is the beginning of the European part of the American story, at least in the East. A lot of history there. I'm not sure George owning slaves is too ironic. That's the way it was. 70 years later the world had changed, and it took a force called Lincoln (who did not own slaves) to make it happen. Not alone of course.

No states seceded; 11 tried and failed, but they lost the war and could not get international recognition. Half of Virginia stayed with the Union (West Virginia). A big chunk of Southern Maryland tried and failed. If I remember correctly, the CSA invaded Kentucky, which wanted to stay neutral, and the Union drove the CSA out.

BS214, one more time SC did NOT ban the flag. You could fly it tomorrow in your front yard across the street from the Capitol.

The people of the State have decided not to fly it on State lands.

Kind of under the radar, but in other news the US House of Representatives voted this week, without debate, that the flag cannot be flown in National Cemeteries anymore. Which I believe was the only Federal lands on which it could fly for other than historical purposes. Which is just to say that if someone wants to put the flag on the grave of their Confederate ancestor, they'll have to go pay for the land themselves, not rely on the Federal Government to pay the rent.

You really need to go to Air and Space if you haven't already. And kids love it.

Didn't get that chance this time. We talked about going back on Monday but decided not to due to where the Metro station we go to (Branch St. Terminal), parking will be hard to get because of DC commuters filling up parking spaces pretty early and fast. Plus, the downside the terminal coming back will horrendous at the evening rush hour at the Metro station and the ride home.

Next time we come down to visit my sister, that will be a first priority destination.

G -

My mistake. The removal of the Confederate flag at the capital.

If you and your family are up to it, the best way to get around the public parts of Washington is on a bicycle.

Park your car at Arlington Cemetery and forget it. The ride over Arlington Bridge is kind of hairy, but once you get to the Lincoln Memorial all the monuments and museums are wide open to you - and the Mall is dead flat. (You'll discover that Capitol Hill really is a hill, though.)

Another fun bike route: from Rock Creek Park to the Kennedy Center. If you have any luck with the lights, you can make that trip without turning the pedals.

But be sure to get a good lock for your bike.

Bikes? Forget it! LOL! I wouldn't mind it but the missus hasn't rode a bike in years and son had no interest in bike riding. My sis drove us to the Metro station Saturday and parking nor metro ride was bad. Weekends seem to be the best time to head to DC without dealing with weekday commuters.