mph34 wrote:

Put me down for a SU-25.  My interest in the A-10 direct counterpart has been awoken. Not sure yet what scale/manufacture - will depend what I find and can afford.  I'll take a look at what Squadron might have as well.

Great to have you aboard, mph34! I'll update the roster shortly.

Put me down for a SU-25.  My interest in the A-10 direct counterpart has been awoken.

Not sure yet what scale/manufacture - will depend what I find and can afford.  I'll take a look at what Squadron might have as well.

-Neu- wrote:

The DRA had 62s, though they were far less common than the 55/54. I'm not entirely sure but I don't think they were used anywhere but around Kabul and had their national emblem on display.

Thanks. I will see if I can drag up some pics. At least now I know its at least possible.

Sorry for not being around lately guys. It probably seemed like I dropped off the world or something. I didn't drop off the world though, I did however have a ton of work to do in the architecture lab, thus my free-time has been swallowed up recently. 

bondoman - Thanks for the heads up on the Roden An-12 kit. Hopefully we may see you sign up for this GB.

mph34- If you want in on this GB just let me know, you can always decide what you want to build later. As for the F-16A, stikpusher already explained it(thanks stik), the Pakistani's had aquired some from the US and those were used to shoot down some Soviet aircraft. Thus  because these actions related to the Soviet-Afghan War, I decided I might as well include it in the GB.

The DRA had 62s, though they were far less common than the 55/54. I'm not entirely sure but I don't think they were used anywhere but around Kabul and had their national emblem on display.

Just ordered my Trumnpeter T-62 today from Sprue Bros.

Does anyone know of anywhere I could get pics or info on an Afghan version in use durring the Soviet invasion/occupation?

I am wanting to make a version that was in use by the Soviet backed government or one in use by the resistance, or even better yet one used to actually fight the initial invasion (if any where even used, don't know much about the Afghans initial reaction to the invation).

Bottom line, an Afghan tank would be far cooler and rarer then Soviet. If such an animal even exists. I still have a lot of research to do. If they didn't have any 62's then Soviet it will be.

Pakistani F-16As flew some aerial engagements against Soviet and Afghan aircraft that crossed into Pakistani airspace. Either intentionally or accidentally. They claimed a few kills.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_337.shtml

 

I'd like to join - not sure yet what I will build.  Need to look at your provided references to decide.

Just a question, how does the F-16A fit into this?  I guess I need to do some studying.

Mg Mi- excellent GB. Might I recommend to you all one of the best a/c models out there; the Roden 1/72 an-12.

The splash strips are easy, four on the older variants, three on the later. If you are backdating the turret, you need to remove armor, so you would  sand it to match the earlier contours. No adding needed. I will check around to see if I have some, or can find some, comparative overhead shots for you.

Thank you very much Stik... It definitely gives me a better idea about what I need to do.

#1 Side gill armor: I can delete this completely, so that alleviates that problem.
#2 Glacis slashes: Add an extra one made from styrene. From the other site I linked suggests the hull is closer in detail to a soviet version anyway.
#3 Added Frontal armour: The real problem as this requires a major addition of putty as well as moving the gun assembly forward. I'm not the keenest on doing an entire mod of this.
#4 Handrails: easy as pie.
#5 Optical sight: Given the need to alter the shape of the turret, this one won't be that tough.

Again, thank you for the assistance Stik. Its well within my skill level to do, I'm just not sure if its worth the effort as I'll have to use alot of poly putty to get the shape I want.

I found these pics to help illustrate the differences

This is an early production T-72B with fold out gill armor installed and deployed. Note the optical port in front of the commanders hatchand the handrails on the front of the turret. Also compare the slope of the frontal turret armor to later variants.

Another early T-72B in parade order. No gill or skirt armor over the suspension.

A T-72G/M. No smoke mortars, gill/skirt armor or handrails. Note no optical port in front of the commanders hatch

An early T-72 G/M in front with a later T-72M1 the background. Notice the difference in frontal turret armor, smoke grenade launchers, track skirt armor, and fewer slash strips on teh glacis in front of the drivers hatch.

And a late T-72G/M with smoke mortars but no track shrouds.

 

 

 

 

OK, now you are running in to one of the great relabeling issues. At some point waht was known as the T-72M2 (aka "Super Dolly Parton") was relabled T-72B. The one in your link is T-72M2/72B. I will see if I can fnd you some pics of the old style B. Duuring original production the had no smoke mortars and a small handrail on the front of the turret, left and right of the main gun As they were rebuilt/overhauled, the rail was removed and handrail added. Also hull "gill" armor removed and track shroud/skirt style armor added. Dont use that pic as your guide. There are two prime differences between a B and G/M/M1 turret: 1) heavier armor on the frontal arc, 2) the optical rangefinder port in front of the commanders hatch.

Thanks Stikpusher, I hope you don't mind if I ask a few more questions. Reading the accounts and looking at the service dates, it seem to me that an early B version that might have been the most likely to see temporary service. So, considering that I've got to mod a M1 to a B. Reading this review its actually a G turret, and I guess Its got to make it look like this B. In addition to the range finder, is the shape completely different as well? Do you think its possible to modify the turret without a massive amount of work? Or might it be more prudent to buy a T-62s (the most common type in Afghanistan) and just build that instead, while building this straight up?

The Soviets used many versions of the T-72 during the period of the Afghanistan War. Versions in sevice thru that time included T-72A, T-72B, T-72 G/M, T-72M1 and T-72M2. The first variant was a comparitively small production run. The latter two, were the newest in service and more likely to be sent to an area facing NATO. The G/M was primarily for export and/or built in sattelite countries such as Czechoslovakia or Poland (G was non Soviet built, M was Soviet built). The do not have quite as heavy of frontal turret armor as the later M1 and M2 variants. Also there are a differeant number of splash strips on the glacis plate in front of the drivers hatch as opposed to later variants. The T-72B had an optical stereoscopic rangefinder as oppsed to the laser rangerfinder used on the G/M and later variants. Early G/M's will have "gill" armor over the frontal suspension and no smoke grenade launchers. There are other detail differences in each variant as well.

So as an impulse buy I picked up a 1/72 Revell T-72M1... only to find out;
#1 the M1 was more of a export version than what the Soviet armies use .
#2 T-72 use in Afghanistan is disputed and if it was there, it was for a very short period of time.

So here are my questions. Does anybody have any information on this and or photos. Also what would I need to modify on this T-72 to get it looking more like a soviet version?

may not be able to get in on this. the trump T62 i intend on working up would be one of the early versions which likely wouldn't've been in use in this time period

Great to have you aboard for your first ever GB, Coldsteel6d!! Can't wait to see how that new kit with all the buzz, lives up to it. Just remember no starting unitll December 1st.

Put me in for a Trumpeter T-62 1-35 scale.

stikpusher - Great! Can't wait to see that armored car.

-Neu-  Okay, I just added the link.

HSteve- Great to have you aboard! By the way, I'm sure your build will turn out great, even if it is your 2nd in 10 years.

 

I'm in for a RoG 1/72 SU-25 Frogfoot at least - This will be my 2nd attempt at a build in 10 yrs, Should be fun building w/ you fine folks...

While I'm shopping, I'll probably find at least one other kit to throw in the mix...

 

mg.mikael wrote:

-Neu-, you don't mind if I add that link to the Resources post do you?

Nope not at all.

Put me down for Zvezda's 1/35 BTR-70

Sounds good, M1 A1 A2 Tanker, I'll sign you up. It's also great to see someone join up with a tank finally.

-Neu-, you don't mind if I add that link to the Resources post do you?

Hi guys,

As Mg said this isn't the most well known war, but its one of the most fascinating. You had an army that by all accounts was among the most proficient in war fighting in history; after the Brezhnev reforms of the 1970s, the Soviet military had all the weapons it could ever want and a new doctrine to utilize them to their fullest. On top of that it had crushed several other rebellions in client states successfully; Afghanistan, basically a developing nation, should have been no different.

Afghanistan in 1978 was utterly different from what it is today. It had a functioning government, an operating economy, and decent military apparatus. It was probably the most stable the country had been since the 11th century. Yet within a year of the invasion, hundreds of bands started to emerge across the country. By 1988 there were approximately 6,000 mujahideen commanders prosecuting the war. Most never had any formal military training, but fought based on adherence to the Pushtunwali (the tribal code), some more radical interpretations of Islam, or a mixture of both.

Anyway I won't give an exhaustive list of references but I will recommend Col. Lester Grau's excellent book The bear went over the mountain. It gives a series of Vignettes that show the application (or misapplication) of soviet military hardware. It shows how the very conventional tactics of the bear, which might have overwhelmed NATO in Europe, was utterly useless against the plucky mujahideen, who excelled at fighting on their terms.


As for the models, (because lets be honest, thats why we;re here), I'll be starting with an Mi-24; the most feared of the soviet arsenal. In addition to the Hind I think I'll try my hand at some 1/72 russian combat vehicles, maybe a BTR-60, BMP-2 or something that I can find at a reasonable price. If not then I'll build it in 1/35.

While I have 2 other GB's I'm in and then another one I'm running (Soviet Union GB), I'm of course a glutten for punishment and love Russian stuff.

So how about Tamiya 1/35 T-72M?

Don't worry I won't cross it over with the Soviet GB, I have plenty other Ruskie kits waiting for that one. 

 

See ya

 

Scott

 

For those wondering what I was gonna do with that reserved post, well there you go it's being used for something.(go look by first post) It's an area for everyone to share any sort or resource links they have on the Soviet-Afghan War, so if you have a link please share. Enjoy.

armydogdoc wrote:

Ive got academy's 1/48th scale mig 21, gonna do her up in the afghan markings like the one in the pic I posted on the last thread.  Is it OK to match that photo and leave here stripped and abanded?

I have no problem with that, so by all means go for it!! Should make for quite the unique build.

Ive got academy's 1/48th scale mig 21, gonna do her up in the afghan markings like the one in the pic I posted on the last thread.  Is it OK to match that photo and leave here stripped and abanded?

Thanks for gettin' back to me so soon.