Dermot, those are impressive looking Airfix planes.  Since I too am working on a 1/72 Spitfire from Airfix, I was wondering what you did to detail the cockpit?  Is it an aftermarket item or scratchbuilt?  Also, what colour did you use in the landing gear bays?  I painted mine in RAF interior green since I couldn't find any references on the internet about what was used there.

I am pretty sure on the early Spitfires the wheel wells and inside of the gear doors would have been painted the same as the overall underside color which was usally Sky on the Spitfires. Hurricane wheel wells were left unpainted for some reason.

Soulcrusher

Ah!  That means I have painted mine incorrectly all these years !  Including the ones for this group build .  Well, live and learn--I'll learn to live with it, and change things the next time around.  Thanks for the answer, Soulcrusher.

soulcrusher

I am pretty sure on the early Spitfires the wheel wells and inside of the gear doors would have been painted the same as the overall underside color which was usually Sky on the Spitfires. Hurricane wheel wells were left unpainted for some reason.

Soulcrusher

Prior to April 1939, RAF fighters had their lower surface painted Aluminium. This would have included early Spitfires and Hurricanes. Between April 1939 and June 1940 the undersurfaces were black and white for recognition purposes. Then in June 1940 the new color "Sky" was directed to be applied to the under surface. Research has shown that in addition to the "official" Sky shade, at least two other shades were used: Sky Blue and Eau-de-Nil. These were often applied at unit level when the use of Black and White was ordered to be discontinued. Now seeing how Aluminium was the original underside color and the wheel well components were painted in the factory before final assembly and painting, it would not be too far a stretch to have them in that shade. At least until the directives changed.  Or whatever of the bottom camo color was used at the time of production or repaint.

Very true stikpusher. I kind of gave him the short and simple answer due to the fact that by the Battle of Britian almost all of the Spitfires would have been repainted Sky. I would guess they just painted everything includind the wells and gear door just to speed things up and save masking. I have an old video mad by the RAF to instruct on how to service the Spitfire. Lots of close up shot. I'm going to watch it agian to see if I can see what color the wells are in the plane in the video.

Soulcrusher

I bet you could probably find examples of all colors. I can imagine in a hurried conditions at the height of the battle that rushed jobs with minimal masking would be the norm. I have found lots of fun little trivia whie researching for this build.

This is all very interesting, Soulcrusher and stikpusher.  I was aware of the black/white scheme, and have run across references to Eau-de-Nil (does this mean "water of the Nile, in French?).  Are there comparable models paints for Sky Blue and E-d-N?  I always like variation in paint schemes, to break up the uniformity, and these might be useful.

One reference in my library (Fly Past Battle of Britain Special) lists Eau de Nil as No.16, and Sky Blue as No.1. This is per 1990s research by Paul Lucas. The profiles with the color show Eau-de-Nil as a more vivid brighter green shade than Sky and Sky Blue looks near Duck Egg Blue in paint colors. I like the variation too. It also lists another color, "Sky Grey".  In the profiles this looks similar to the modern RAF Light Aircraft Grey. Apparently the variations were more common in the early phase of the battle after the changeover from Black and White in June thru August.

Which is all kind of cool because there could have been many variations out there. It give you a bit of artistic license with colors and finishes.

Soulcrusher

Bigtime. Plus you have the "A" and "B" patterns for topside camo. Dependant upon the last digit of serial number. Another bit of trivia dug up for this GB. (they really need a 'stirring the pot' emoticon here)

This brings to mind the column written by Ian Huntley in Scale Aircraft Modelling around 30 years ago. I remember an article discussing this very thing, in which the long-standing confusion over Sky, Duck-Egg Blue and Duck-Egg Green was explored. His research was always impecable and he told a tale of bureaucratic madness about repaint after repaint (presumably before the crisis of the battle itself) as orders came down the chain specifying what colour to use, and the consternation at unit level when the shade that came out of the spraygun was precisely the same as what was being painted over... His conclusion was that all three names applied to exactly the same hue mixing formula -- in other words, it's all Sky. Of course, that's both 30-year old research, and reasearch by the same token that's 30 years closer to the historic reality...

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Great discussion, thanks for the information.  Model Master has a shade called "Duck Egg Blue."  Is this the same color we're talking about here?

On the build front, I sprayed a gloss coating on my two Hurricanes today (I used Floquil Crystal Cote) and hope to be decaling yet this weekend.  And of course, decaling is where many disasters can still happen.

I also attached the wings to the Spitfire, and the sanding will commence.

As far as I know, it should be. The colour filmstocks of the time may have generated rather different hues depending on lighting conditions, so the variety of names may have aquired the idea they applied to different shades in later years, but according to Ian Huntley there was only one manufactured shade to which all the names applied. Of course, model paint manufacturers may have taken their inspiration from the variety of textual sources that grew up in later decades, and may be fulfilling the expectation that there was more than one shade... Whether there was or not!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

I think I have an old bottle of MM's Duck Egg Blue.  I'll try spraying a swatch to compare it to their "Sky Type S," and see what they've done.  Thanks for the information, Mike.

Hey, are you still accepting members, i might be able to build something, but I'm not sure.

ozzman

Hey, are you still accepting members, i might be able to build something, but I'm not sure.

Just keep in mind that this GB ends in six weeks so if you want to join you better jump in and start building. Not alot of time left.

Soulcrusher

Hi there,

For the interior, I just used styrene strip, card and some scrap sprue cut to give a represenation of a cockpit. To be honest, it's kinda hard to see any detail in there when it's all closed up! The pilot got belts from thin strips of food foil (like you get on cream cheese tubs) and I extended belts behind his seat to give an idea of the Sutton harness they wore.

On the the gear bays, that was a goof on my part as any references I've found show them as either Sky or Duck Egg Blue (same as whatever the lower paint scheme was in).

Thanks for your comments!

Der

After a long delay, I'm finally getting started on the Lysander. It is the 1/72 Matchbox kit now being sold by Revell.

The Lysander was best known for its use later in the war supporting resistance movements, but during the Battle of Britain they were first used to fly anti-invasion missions. If they had found a German invasion fleet they would have attacked with straffing and bombing runs.

Since Germany never attempted a cross channel invasion that mission didn't surface, but by August 1940 the Lysanders were flying a more practical mission, air sea rescue. Formal ASR squadrons were not formed until 1941, but the slow flying Lysander was soon found to be a good search platform and were in great demand with RAF squadrons. It was used to locate downed pilots after an action then direct flying boats or surface vessels to their location. When local rescue was not immediately available Lysanders could drop a life raft and supplies to a pilot in the water which greatly improved their chances for survival. Eventually survival packs became available that could be fitted to the Lysanders bomb racks, but the usual method during 1940 was simply to have the back seater throw these kits out of an open window.

This is the old Matchbox kit in Revell's classic series so there really are not any surprises, it is a fairly simple kit with decent external detail and a minimal interior.

So far everything is going together well, but painting is going to be interesting due to the huge greenhouse canopy that supports the wings.

Unusual subject Aaron and coming along very nicely!

Looking forward to how you tackle that big canopy...

Best wishes,

Dermot

Thanks, I decided to ignore the instructions and build it a bit out of order which will make painting easier. I'll leave the canopy and wings for the last step.

On the eve of "Battle of Britain" Day which marks the turning point in the battle, here's where I'm at with my current builds..(all Airfix and 1/72).

The group shot...

First, the pride of Supermarine. Codes are for 65 Squadron, aircraft serial is fictitious. Just needs weathering, flat coat and small extras to finish (this is the older mold Airfix Spitfire)

Next, the 109 in the markings of Helmut Wick, I/JG2. Decals are from a Hasegawa 109 in the stash and the mottling was done with my wife's surplus eye blusher! Again, needs some weathering, flat coat, canopy...

And the suitably named Defiant. Did some serious plastic surgery on this one, replacing the nose with one from a Revell Hurricane. Much sanding and filling to go!! Decided against fixing the undersize tail but added some detail to the cockpit.

Turret ended up ok, framed with strips of black electrical tape..

And also hoping to get this one done if possible...

Best wishes,

Very nice looking results you are achieving. 

Man those Airfix kits bring back some memories....I even remember building that Lysander as a kid but it was boxed as Matchbox...Very cool seeing them built here

Thanks! Just taking my time and enjoying myself!

Cheers,

Dermot

Thanks Julez72 and am on a bit of a nostalgia build at the moment! They all go together quite well for old kits (except the Defiant).

Cheers,

Dermot

Yeah the Defiant does look like a bit of a pig to build, would love to see Tamiya, Hasegawa or Italeri kit it in 1/48 scale....

Aaron- loving the Lysander! Nice to see something different!

Dermot- 1/72nd was always too small for me - am impressed with the great camo you've done on those tiny birds!

The Few are getting fewer.  Here's an interesting article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1313354/The-glorious-Few-70-years-In-1940-planes-courage-stood-Britain-Nazi-domination.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Dermo--My reference (Caruana) shows the Wick 109 with yellow wingtips and lower rudder.  Love the stippling!  IMG]http://i1019.photobucket.com/albums/af320/kmbode/Emoticons/Shrugging.gif[/IMG]

Got my 109 E-3 all done!  Its my first Luftwaffe aircraft in over two years.  Now that the plane's done, need to work on the small diorama I have planned for it, hence all the oil streaks and such.

First two are shots from the top the last one is the bottom showing some of the weathering for the diorama