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The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Thursday, June 2, 2011 5:16 PM

How's this look:

US$32, + shipping.

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Thursday, June 2, 2011 4:43 PM

That's an ALQ101 pod I think.  From what I understand, there isn't a lot of physical difference between the two, but I found the same pod at several web sites, all listed as the ALQ101 which is the one we need. Along with the pylons of course. lol  I'm still trying to find that Testor's G Wild Weasel kit I have around here.  I know that Hasegawa Weapons Pack B has the ALQ87 in it.  But it's kind of pricey just for the couple of items we need.  Although I suppose if I pick it up, I could re-arm the kits I took the AIM9Js and AIM7Fs out of. I'll see what Wifey says.

 

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Thursday, June 2, 2011 4:40 PM

Rich:

Here's a better Ebay link;

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-48-F-4G-PHANTOM-II-WILD-WEASEL-HASEGAWA-7209-/310288369087?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item483ea0c5bf#ht_1034wt_1141

If that pod is of any use let me know.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Thursday, June 2, 2011 4:21 PM

jimbot58

It seems that model building is a lesson in problem solving: Before I got too carried away with painting the bottom of the 'Geasel', I needed to think about the ALQ-119 pod to be mounted in the LH forward Sparrow bay. Naturally, the Hasegawa kit doesn't provide any underwing stores, so I had to get one of their add-on weapons kits to obtain one. (Same with the required AGM missiles) The other problem was the pylon for the pod! They don't provide that either! I knew I would likely have to scratch one, but I didn't know what it looked like.

I came up with an alternative: The Italeri kit in my stash has a "G" option and provides both the pod and the pylon! The part in question is already mounted to its pylon, but like the rest of the kit, details are 'soft', poorly done, with ejector pin marks deeply embedded in the side. The pylon would be usable though.

Cutting off the locater pins from the bottom, I cemented the whole piece into the bay, using the other kit part as a guide:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4339/0226110104a.jpg

The Hasegawa part that will be used is held there by a bit of tape for comparison.

Once set, I cut away the crappy Italeri pod, leaving the two tiny rods that where the new one will mount (hard to see with my stupid camera, I know!). How I will mount it securely will be a problem for another day, but maybe some brass wires drilled in may be the answer:

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5893/0226110108.jpg

New part taped in place to get a 'feel' for it:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3947/0226110110.jpg

Comparing the good and the bad:

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6204/0226110114.jpg

Hopefully, it will someday look somewhat like this:

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/9519/800px276594372ff230e2b6.jpg

As always, sorry for the quality of my pictures, I wish I had a better camera.....

Also I would mention that after examination of the Italeri kit with its raised panel lines, poor fit, lots of ejector pin marks in all the wrong places, and lack of decent detail issues, I decided this kit is fair game for savaging parts, including the decals that will go to the Hasegawa 'Geasel'! No intentions to ever build it.

Rich, I found Jim's post, not really sure what those are either, but it may help. That's back on Page 62.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Thursday, June 2, 2011 4:09 PM

Sparrowhyperion

Thanks!  That's all I needed to know.  All I need to do now is track down some ECM pods..

 

 

 berny13:

 

 

 Sparrowhyperion:

 

I don't get as much built as I used to anymore.  Shaky hands mean slow laborious work.  Oh... Almost forgot something.  Berny.  I have seen different styles of tail markings for the ship numbers on the SEA decals I got.  Some have dark prefix numbers and some have white.  Which one would be accurate for 69-260?  Is the AF and 69 dark or white?

Rich

 

 

The AF and 69 was in black.  The ED and 260 was in white.

 

 

Rich:

Here are the instructions:

Here's the kit link on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hasegawa-07209-1-48-F-4G-Phantom-II-Wild-Weasel-/110685587798

They look similar to the ones a number of pages back, but I haven't developed an eye for the pods yet, so I'm not sure which model number it is.

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 9:19 PM

Thanks!  That's all I needed to know.  All I need to do now is track down some ECM pods..

 

berny13

 

 Sparrowhyperion:

 

I don't get as much built as I used to anymore.  Shaky hands mean slow laborious work.  Oh... Almost forgot something.  Berny.  I have seen different styles of tail markings for the ship numbers on the SEA decals I got.  Some have dark prefix numbers and some have white.  Which one would be accurate for 69-260?  Is the AF and 69 dark or white?

Rich

 

 

The AF and 69 was in black.  The ED and 260 was in white.

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 9:12 PM

Sparrowhyperion

I don't get as much built as I used to anymore.  Shaky hands mean slow laborious work.  Oh... Almost forgot something.  Berny.  I have seen different styles of tail markings for the ship numbers on the SEA decals I got.  Some have dark prefix numbers and some have white.  Which one would be accurate for 69-260?  Is the AF and 69 dark or white?

Rich

The AF and 69 was in black.  The ED and 260 was in white.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 8:44 PM

I don't get as much built as I used to anymore.  Shaky hands mean slow laborious work.  Oh... Almost forgot something.  Berny.  I have seen different styles of tail markings for the ship numbers on the SEA decals I got.  Some have dark prefix numbers and some have white.  Which one would be accurate for 69-260?  Is the AF and 69 dark or white?

Rich

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 8:36 PM

Sparrowhyperion

You deserved the honor Berny.  I was a grunt, and was in between wars, but I tell ya, the things you AF guys did, made us a lot safer on the ground.  I know folks usually think of support personnel as non-combat, but anyone with any kind of military background knows that this is not true.  Support staff sometimes have to work in the worst conditions, and under the most pressure.  And sometimes are as/if not more exposed to hostiles than the unit they are supporting.

 

 

 berny13:

 

 

 Sparrowhyperion:

 

I hope you got a purple heart at least out of that.  I take it the other guy got an honorable discharge due to his injuries?

 

 

 berny13:

 

 Bockscar:

 

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

 

 

Thanks Bocks.  The bad thing is that F-4C never flew again.  After returning back to Hill AFB, I saw that jet laying along side a hanger.  A civilian came up as I was looking at it and commented that the crew that took that aircraft apart should be shot.  The fuselage was so warped by not being in a jig and cradle there would be no way to ever get the parts to fit again.  You can't use putty and sandpaper to get them to fit and fill the gaps.  Big Smile

 

 

 

 

I got the Silver Star and Purple Heart.  The other man got a medical discharge with 50% disibility.  He was awarded the Purple Heart and Air Force Commendation Medal.  The other two who came back to get us were awarded the Air Force Commendation Medal.

 

 

Starting to make sense Rich, THANK YOU as well, mind you Rich, you build more in an hour than I do in a week...lol...when I retire....I've got a huge factory planned.....

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 8:13 PM

berny13

 

 Sparrowhyperion:

 

I hope you got a purple heart at least out of that.  I take it the other guy got an honorable discharge due to his injuries?

 

 

 berny13:

 

 Bockscar:

 

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

 

 

Thanks Bocks.  The bad thing is that F-4C never flew again.  After returning back to Hill AFB, I saw that jet laying along side a hanger.  A civilian came up as I was looking at it and commented that the crew that took that aircraft apart should be shot.  The fuselage was so warped by not being in a jig and cradle there would be no way to ever get the parts to fit again.  You can't use putty and sandpaper to get them to fit and fill the gaps.  Big Smile

 

 

 

 

I got the Silver Star and Purple Heart.  The other man got a medical discharge with 50% disibility.  He was awarded the Purple Heart and Air Force Commendation Medal.  The other two who came back to get us were awarded the Air Force Commendation Medal.

Berny; I had to have a beer for the two like-minded guys that hauled your bacon outa' the mud!Wink

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 8:04 PM

Sparrowhyperion

Great :), I am off on a stores hunt. lol.

Rich

 

 

 berny13:

 

 

 

 

When I built my model I had it loaded with four AIM-7F's, four AIM-9J's, two 370 wing tanks, a 600 gallon centerline tank, one AN/ALQ-87 ECM pod on the left inboard, a AN/ALQ-101 ECM pod on the right inboard.  That would be the loadout for long range MIG CAP.  Hungry for bear and ready for the kill.

 

 

I've got your back, Rich...lol....

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 8:03 PM

berny13

 

 Sparrowhyperion:

 

Oh Berny.  What did you say a typical load out on stores would be for that bird?

 

 

When I built my model I had it loaded with four AIM-7F's, four AIM-9J's, two 370 wing tanks, a 600 gallon centerline tank, one AN/ALQ-87 ECM pod on the left inboard, a AN/ALQ-101 ECM pod on the right inboard.  That would be the loadout for long range MIG CAP.  Hungry for bear and ready for the kill.

See a bear, shoot a bear.....

LOL....

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:56 PM

Great :), I am off on a stores hunt. lol.

Rich

 

berny13

 

 

 

When I built my model I had it loaded with four AIM-7F's, four AIM-9J's, two 370 wing tanks, a 600 gallon centerline tank, one AN/ALQ-87 ECM pod on the left inboard, a AN/ALQ-101 ECM pod on the right inboard.  That would be the loadout for long range MIG CAP.  Hungry for bear and ready for the kill.

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Lafayette, Indiana
Posted by Son Of Medicine Man on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:52 PM

berny13

 Sparrowhyperion:

I hope you got a purple heart at least out of that.  I take it the other guy got an honorable discharge due to his injuries?

 

 berny13:

 

 Bockscar:

 

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

 

 

Thanks Bocks.  The bad thing is that F-4C never flew again.  After returning back to Hill AFB, I saw that jet laying along side a hanger.  A civilian came up as I was looking at it and commented that the crew that took that aircraft apart should be shot.  The fuselage was so warped by not being in a jig and cradle there would be no way to ever get the parts to fit again.  You can't use putty and sandpaper to get them to fit and fill the gaps.  Big Smile

 

 

I got the Silver Star and Purple Heart.  The other man got a medical discharge with 50% disibility.  He was awarded the Purple Heart and Air Force Commendation Medal.  The other two who came back to get us were awarded the Air Force Commendation Medal.

You most certainly deserved those medals!  I have to ask you this after knowing what I have gone through when I lost my Dad.  Have you told your children this story?  Even if you have, if they haven't heard it again recently, you should tell it to them again.  And anything else about you that is of merit.  They will be very glad that you did.  And by no means think of it as bragging.  I know that it is not your style to brag about what you have done.  They will surely feel proud of you!

Ken

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:51 PM

Sparrowhyperion

Oh Berny.  What did you say a typical load out on stores would be for that bird?

When I built my model I had it loaded with four AIM-7F's, four AIM-9J's, two 370 wing tanks, a 600 gallon centerline tank, one AN/ALQ-87 ECM pod on the left inboard, a AN/ALQ-101 ECM pod on the right inboard.  That would be the loadout for long range MIG CAP.  Hungry for bear and ready for the kill.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:45 PM

You deserved the honor Berny.  I was a grunt, and was in between wars, but I tell ya, the things you AF guys did, made us a lot safer on the ground.  I know folks usually think of support personnel as non-combat, but anyone with any kind of military background knows that this is not true.  Support staff sometimes have to work in the worst conditions, and under the most pressure.  And sometimes are as/if not more exposed to hostiles than the unit they are supporting.

 

berny13

 

 Sparrowhyperion:

 

I hope you got a purple heart at least out of that.  I take it the other guy got an honorable discharge due to his injuries?

 

 

 berny13:

 

 Bockscar:

 

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

 

 

Thanks Bocks.  The bad thing is that F-4C never flew again.  After returning back to Hill AFB, I saw that jet laying along side a hanger.  A civilian came up as I was looking at it and commented that the crew that took that aircraft apart should be shot.  The fuselage was so warped by not being in a jig and cradle there would be no way to ever get the parts to fit again.  You can't use putty and sandpaper to get them to fit and fill the gaps.  Big Smile

 

 

 

 

I got the Silver Star and Purple Heart.  The other man got a medical discharge with 50% disibility.  He was awarded the Purple Heart and Air Force Commendation Medal.  The other two who came back to get us were awarded the Air Force Commendation Medal.

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:35 PM

Sparrowhyperion

I hope you got a purple heart at least out of that.  I take it the other guy got an honorable discharge due to his injuries?

 

 berny13:

 

 Bockscar:

 

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

 

 

Thanks Bocks.  The bad thing is that F-4C never flew again.  After returning back to Hill AFB, I saw that jet laying along side a hanger.  A civilian came up as I was looking at it and commented that the crew that took that aircraft apart should be shot.  The fuselage was so warped by not being in a jig and cradle there would be no way to ever get the parts to fit again.  You can't use putty and sandpaper to get them to fit and fill the gaps.  Big Smile

 

I got the Silver Star and Purple Heart.  The other man got a medical discharge with 50% disibility.  He was awarded the Purple Heart and Air Force Commendation Medal.  The other two who came back to get us were awarded the Air Force Commendation Medal.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:31 PM

Thunderbolt379

Berny -- that's an amazing story and I'm honoured to have provided the venue for the telling. I feel I've helped enshrine a piece of history that deserves to be remembered. Thank you so much for sharing this!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Mike;

Given the tribulations and actions of those guys present but unmentioned, Rex, Ken's dad, and Berny, we can conclude your GB has definitely turned into a Memorial in its own right, and a humbling one, at that.

History isn't just what happened in the past, but what we learn today about it.

Privileged to learn here, Mike.

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:25 PM

Thanks Ken.  I lost track of what page it was on.

 

Son Of Medicine Man

 

 Sparrowhyperion:

 

Almost forgot.  Does anyone have a source for SEA white numerical decals?  The correct font for tail numbers?  I need some for good old 69-260.  Everything else is here, so apart from some paint and detail work on other kits, all my build time is now on the E bird.  :)  Oh Berny.  What did you say a typical load out on stores would be for that bird?

 

 

Hi Rich,

Berny described that on page 115.

Ken

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Lafayette, Indiana
Posted by Son Of Medicine Man on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:18 PM

Sparrowhyperion

Almost forgot.  Does anyone have a source for SEA white numerical decals?  The correct font for tail numbers?  I need some for good old 69-260.  Everything else is here, so apart from some paint and detail work on other kits, all my build time is now on the E bird.  :)  Oh Berny.  What did you say a typical load out on stores would be for that bird?

Hi Rich,

Berny described that on page 115.

Ken

  • Member since
    April 2005
Posted by Thunderbolt379 on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:15 PM

Berny -- that's an amazing story and I'm honoured to have provided the venue for the telling. I feel I've helped enshrine a piece of history that deserves to be remembered. Thank you so much for sharing this!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

http://worldinminiature.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:09 PM

Almost forgot.  Does anyone have a source for SEA white numerical decals?  The correct font for tail numbers?  I need some for good old 69-260.  Everything else is here, so apart from some paint and detail work on other kits, all my build time is now on the E bird.  :)  Oh Berny.  What did you say a typical load out on stores would be for that bird?

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Toledo Area OH
Posted by Sparrowhyperion on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:06 PM

I hope you got a purple heart at least out of that.  I take it the other guy got an honorable discharge due to his injuries?

 

berny13

 

 Bockscar:

 

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

 

 

Thanks Bocks.  The bad thing is that F-4C never flew again.  After returning back to Hill AFB, I saw that jet laying along side a hanger.  A civilian came up as I was looking at it and commented that the crew that took that aircraft apart should be shot.  The fuselage was so warped by not being in a jig and cradle there would be no way to ever get the parts to fit again.  You can't use putty and sandpaper to get them to fit and fill the gaps.  Big Smile

In the Hangar: 1/48 Hobby Boss F/A-18D RAAF Hornet,

On the Tarmac:  F4U-1D RNZAF Corsair 1/48 Scale.

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Lafayette, Indiana
Posted by Son Of Medicine Man on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:00 PM

berny13

 Bockscar:

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

 

Thanks Bocks.  The bad thing is that F-4C never flew again.  After returning back to Hill AFB, I saw that jet laying along side a hanger.  A civilian came up as I was looking at it and commented that the crew that took that aircraft apart should be shot.  The fuselage was so warped by not being in a jig and cradle there would be no way to ever get the parts to fit again.  You can't use putty and sandpaper to get them to fit and fill the gaps.  Big Smile

Wow Berny, that is an incredible story!  That just confirms what I already thought of you.  A really outstanding person who thinks of others before himself.  And that comment from the civilian just shows how you should never assume anything!  He had no idea the hell you and your crew went through to bring that thing home.  I hope you set him straight.  I am sure you must have received a medal or two for that?

Ken

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 6:52 PM

berny13

 

 Bockscar:

 

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

 

 

Thanks Bocks.  The bad thing is that F-4C never flew again.  After returning back to Hill AFB, I saw that jet laying along side a hanger.  A civilian came up as I was looking at it and commented that the crew that took that aircraft apart should be shot.  The fuselage was so warped by not being in a jig and cradle there would be no way to ever get the parts to fit again.  You can't use putty and sandpaper to get them to fit and fill the gaps.  Big Smile

Berny;

All business...lol...ummm.....for that, I'ld need a bit of time, a bit o' cash, tin snips, rivets and tools, handy with those, mind you, only for display purposes!...is that jig & cradle on Ebay now?.....lol....

It woulda' been pure justice to have it fly again though....just to make you laugh....i used to de-warp destroyed bicycle frames and wheels when I was a kid.....yeah....they paid me good money to un-destroy stuff....lol....never put a grenade back together though, or a slightly used Sparrow.....lol....

Some angel was looking after you man.....you must of been worth the price of admission.....

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 6:37 PM

Bockscar

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

Thanks Bocks.  The bad thing is that F-4C never flew again.  After returning back to Hill AFB, I saw that jet laying along side a hanger.  A civilian came up as I was looking at it and commented that the crew that took that aircraft apart should be shot.  The fuselage was so warped by not being in a jig and cradle there would be no way to ever get the parts to fit again.  You can't use putty and sandpaper to get them to fit and fill the gaps.  Big Smile

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 5:28 PM

Okay, I recovered.....Berny,

THANK YOU for doing that, THANK YOU for saving that guy, THANK YOU for your story.

I am going to have a cold one in your honour and dry my eyes on the cold beer glass. 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 5:15 PM

Sorry Berny, I'm speechless.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by Bockscar on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 5:12 PM

berny13

 

 Bockscar:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Berny;

Thanks for that, By the way, It being Veteran's Day (Monday) and all, I was just wondering, would you care to share a story about some situation you found yourself in, maybe a Phantom crew you always wondered about, or wished for a better outcome on their behalf?

We don't have a lot of opportunities to hear things from the guys that were there, like in 'Nam, unfiltered through the media, and if your not really inclined I understand.

Most of us go to work, make decisions, and everyone comes home afterward. But guys like you and Rex, your decisions were in fact life and death, but just part of your everyday routine.

Anything ever happen that kept you up at night, a close call, a dumb luck story, maybe isn't classified or political? I've always been a student of how people actually think and act under pressure, then how they live with outcomes in the big picture. 

By the way, thanks for the info on the Sparrow launching mechanism, my dad always said if there was no mechanical connection, don't expect a mechanical outcome.....

 

 

I had just completed my second tour in SEA, one in Nam and one in Thailand when I was sent state side to Hill AFB, UT with the F-4 Rapid Area Maintenance Team (RAM Team).  I was sent to Clark AB, Philippines for a six month TDY.  When not on a RAM assignment we would be doing the rocket seat mod or cannon plug mod on the F-4 at Clark.  There was six teams at Clark, two in Nam and two in Thailand, each team for a six month TDY.  After serving our six months at Clark we would go back to Hill AFB for 24 hours and and get sent to Thailand for six months, back to Hill AFB for 24 hours and then to Nam for six months.  Then we would go back to Hill AFB for three months and start all over again.

The procedure was when you completed a RAM assignment you would go to the bottom of the list.  When you were number two on the list the team went on 12 hour recall.  Number one and you were on 30 minute call.  Me and my team was on 12 hour call when the Capt came up to me.  I was working in a cockpit doing the rocket seat mod.  He told me to assemble my team and report to him in 15 minutes for a briefing.

I got my team together and sent them over to base ops and went to see the Capt.  He told me a F-4C Wild Weasel had gone down in country X due to fuel transfer problems.  The crew had ejected but the jet landed in an open field, fully intact.  My job was to take two teams into country X and get all traces of the aircraft out.  Just a week before President Nixon stood up and told the world we were not over flying, conduction any type of missions or had any combat troops in country X.  I was to go in as team leader and evaluate and request any assistance I needed to remove the aircraft.

We always had a C-130 on 30 minute ramp alert to take the teams anywhere needed.  We flew to a base in Thailand where we changed into civilian clothes, got on a helicopter and flew to the crash sight.  I was met by an army 1st Lt that told me we had 72 hours to take the jet apart and get it out.  I told him even under ideal conditions with the jet in a hanger, prepped, with engines removed, fuselage fuel cells removed, on a crib and jig it would take half that time just to remove the wings.  He told me he had three rings of troops around the site, each half a mile apart and the first ring was already under fire.  I told he to be back in 72 hours to pick us up.

The proper procedure is to remove the wings first.  The engines have to be removed to gain access to the wing mount bolts. The fuselage is in three major sections, forward, center and aft. There is a strap secured with flush mounted high sheer rivets covering the fuselage mount bolts.  Each rivet has to be carefully drilled out.  Each bolt is numbered starting with the top bolt being N.1 and looking forward the second bolt looking clockwise is bolt N. 2.  The bolts have to be loosened in a certain order.  First the torque has to be broken and the bolt turned 1/4 turn followed by each bolt in sequence.  Then starting over each bolt backed off one complete turn in a certain order.  You keep this up until each bolt can be removed by finger.  The jig is then cranked forward, jig ring installed securing the removed fuselage section to ring and jig.  Then the jig braces installed and whole assembly placed in the cradle.  Once the cradle is around it you can remove that section, along with the jig and cradle from the crib.   

We didn't have any jigs, cribs or cradles with us so we removed the straps with air chisels to save time.  Then we used a cutting torch to cut the mount bolt heads off.  We manhandled the removed sections out of the way and secured cargo straps and cable to them and had them flown out by chopper.  Using lifting bags we raised the center section enough to get under to remove the lower secondary wing mount bolts.  We cut a hole into the wing torque box to get to the six main wing mount bolts and removed them.  We then flew out the wings by chopper. 

I knew the center section was going to be a problem because it still had the engines and fuel cells installed.  There was only one type of chopper that could remove that much weight and both of them were down for maintenance.  We opened up the fuel drains to drain out as much fuel as possible.  The number 1 and 2 fuel cells were empty but the number 3 and 4 cells were full with number 5 and 6 half full.  As luck would have it a heavy lift chopper came in to remove the center section and was able to got it out. 

It took us 79 hours working around the clock to get the jet taken apart and flown out.  All we had to do now was clean up the crash site and get out of there.  One chopper came in to pick up part of the crew.  They told us the second chopper developed maintenance problems and had to return back to base.  Another was on  the way and would be there in 10 to 15 minutes.  I put all of the crew except for me and three other members on the chopper to fly out.  The four of us checked over the site and I set fire to the pit we had dug to get under the wing.  It was full of JP-4 jet fuel.  After 10 minutes we could hear a chopper coming in and by then we were getting small arm fire coming in on us.  The chopper flew over us and fired a salvo of rockets into the jungle edge.  It flew around and fired a second salvo.  I thought it was our air support and the transport chopper was on the way to pick us up.  When it set down about a hundred yards from us and the gunner motioned us to get on board, we started running toward the chopper.  It was much smaller than the other ones we had seen.  About half way to the chopper, the man to my left went down.  I ran over to him and threw him over my shoulder and started running toward the chopper.  Because of the blood he was loosing, I was about to loose my grip on him.  I stopped, went down on one knee and adjusted the load.  When I stood up, that is all I remember. 

The other members of my crew said an explosion went off, maybe from a mortar round directly in front of me.  It picked me up and threw me backwards about ten feet.  They left the chopper and went after me and the other man.  The other side gunner got out and helped them.  The right gunner told them we were dead and to leave us there.  He kept saying they needed to get out of there and to leave us.

When I woke up in the hospital in Thailand I had a cast on my left foot and left arm.  A piece of steel hit my left leg just above the foot and cracked the bone.  Another hit my left lower arm about half way up and broke the bone.  Another entered my left leg above the knee and went about half way through.  One entered the right leg above the knee and went all the way through.  One large piece was imbedded in my flack jacket right in front of my heart.  All we knew about the other person was he was sent back to a hospital somewhere in the states.

Fast forward to June, 1983.  I was stationed at Spangdahlm AB Germany and was deployed to Nellis AFB, NV for a Red Flag exercise.  After pounding the hot flight line for twelve hours, I went to the NCO club for a cold one before heading back to my motel off base.  I was almost through with my beer when the bartender set another one down in front of me and said it was from the man setting at that table.  I finished my first one, grabbed the second one and went over to the table to thank him.  He asked if I rememberd him and I had to tell him that I didn't.  When He told me that he was the man I went back after he was hit, I couldn't believe it.  He had put on forty pounds, the thick blond hair he had was now gray around the sides and bald on top, and wore thick glasses.  I found out the large piece of steel imbedded in my flack jacket had gone through his right leg, which slowed it down preventing it from going through my flack jacket and into my heart.  The leg was torn up so bad they couldn't save it.  A bullet had entered through the arm opening on his flack jacket and went into his left lung, just missing his heart.  That was the injury that initially took him down.  He was living in the Vegas area, met and married a local girl and had three children.  Before we parted company, we exchanged addresses and phone numbers and agreed to stay in touch.  For some reason we didn't and that was the only time I saw him.   

 

!!!!!WOW!!!!!

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 4:44 PM

Bockscar

 

 

 

 

 

Berny;

Thanks for that, By the way, It being Veteran's Day (Monday) and all, I was just wondering, would you care to share a story about some situation you found yourself in, maybe a Phantom crew you always wondered about, or wished for a better outcome on their behalf?

We don't have a lot of opportunities to hear things from the guys that were there, like in 'Nam, unfiltered through the media, and if your not really inclined I understand.

Most of us go to work, make decisions, and everyone comes home afterward. But guys like you and Rex, your decisions were in fact life and death, but just part of your everyday routine.

Anything ever happen that kept you up at night, a close call, a dumb luck story, maybe isn't classified or political? I've always been a student of how people actually think and act under pressure, then how they live with outcomes in the big picture. 

By the way, thanks for the info on the Sparrow launching mechanism, my dad always said if there was no mechanical connection, don't expect a mechanical outcome.....

I had just completed my second tour in SEA, one in Nam and one in Thailand when I was sent state side to Hill AFB, UT with the F-4 Rapid Area Maintenance Team (RAM Team).  I was sent to Clark AB, Philippines for a six month TDY.  When not on a RAM assignment we would be doing the rocket seat mod or cannon plug mod on the F-4 at Clark.  There was six teams at Clark, two in Nam and two in Thailand, each team for a six month TDY.  After serving our six months at Clark we would go back to Hill AFB for 24 hours and and get sent to Thailand for six months, back to Hill AFB for 24 hours and then to Nam for six months.  Then we would go back to Hill AFB for three months and start all over again.

The procedure was when you completed a RAM assignment you would go to the bottom of the list.  When you were number two on the list the team went on 12 hour recall.  Number one and you were on 30 minute call.  Me and my team was on 12 hour call when the Capt came up to me.  I was working in a cockpit doing the rocket seat mod.  He told me to assemble my team and report to him in 15 minutes for a briefing.

I got my team together and sent them over to base ops and went to see the Capt.  He told me a F-4C Wild Weasel had gone down in country X due to fuel transfer problems.  The crew had ejected but the jet landed in an open field, fully intact.  My job was to take two teams into country X and get all traces of the aircraft out.  Just a week before President Nixon stood up and told the world we were not over flying, conduction any type of missions or had any combat troops in country X.  I was to go in as team leader and evaluate and request any assistance I needed to remove the aircraft.

We always had a C-130 on 30 minute ramp alert to take the teams anywhere needed.  We flew to a base in Thailand where we changed into civilian clothes, got on a helicopter and flew to the crash sight.  I was met by an army 1st Lt that told me we had 72 hours to take the jet apart and get it out.  I told him even under ideal conditions with the jet in a hanger, prepped, with engines removed, fuselage fuel cells removed, on a crib and jig it would take half that time just to remove the wings.  He told me he had three rings of troops around the site, each half a mile apart and the first ring was already under fire.  I told he to be back in 72 hours to pick us up.

The proper procedure is to remove the wings first.  The engines have to be removed to gain access to the wing mount bolts. The fuselage is in three major sections, forward, center and aft. There is a strap secured with flush mounted high sheer rivets covering the fuselage mount bolts.  Each rivet has to be carefully drilled out.  Each bolt is numbered starting with the top bolt being N.1 and looking forward the second bolt looking clockwise is bolt N. 2.  The bolts have to be loosened in a certain order.  First the torque has to be broken and the bolt turned 1/4 turn followed by each bolt in sequence.  Then starting over each bolt backed off one complete turn in a certain order.  You keep this up until each bolt can be removed by finger.  The jig is then cranked forward, jig ring installed securing the removed fuselage section to ring and jig.  Then the jig braces installed and whole assembly placed in the cradle.  Once the cradle is around it you can remove that section, along with the jig and cradle from the crib.   

We didn't have any jigs, cribs or cradles with us so we removed the straps with air chisels to save time.  Then we used a cutting torch to cut the mount bolt heads off.  We manhandled the removed sections out of the way and secured cargo straps and cable to them and had them flown out by chopper.  Using lifting bags we raised the center section enough to get under to remove the lower secondary wing mount bolts.  We cut a hole into the wing torque box to get to the six main wing mount bolts and removed them.  We then flew out the wings by chopper. 

I knew the center section was going to be a problem because it still had the engines and fuel cells installed.  There was only one type of chopper that could remove that much weight and both of them were down for maintenance.  We opened up the fuel drains to drain out as much fuel as possible.  The number 1 and 2 fuel cells were empty but the number 3 and 4 cells were full with number 5 and 6 half full.  As luck would have it a heavy lift chopper came in to remove the center section and was able to got it out. 

It took us 79 hours working around the clock to get the jet taken apart and flown out.  All we had to do now was clean up the crash site and get out of there.  One chopper came in to pick up part of the crew.  They told us the second chopper developed maintenance problems and had to return back to base.  Another was on  the way and would be there in 10 to 15 minutes.  I put all of the crew except for me and three other members on the chopper to fly out.  The four of us checked over the site and I set fire to the pit we had dug to get under the wing.  It was full of JP-4 jet fuel.  After 10 minutes we could hear a chopper coming in and by then we were getting small arm fire coming in on us.  The chopper flew over us and fired a salvo of rockets into the jungle edge.  It flew around and fired a second salvo.  I thought it was our air support and the transport chopper was on the way to pick us up.  When it set down about a hundred yards from us and the gunner motioned us to get on board, we started running toward the chopper.  It was much smaller than the other ones we had seen.  About half way to the chopper, the man to my left went down.  I ran over to him and threw him over my shoulder and started running toward the chopper.  Because of the blood he was loosing, I was about to loose my grip on him.  I stopped, went down on one knee and adjusted the load.  When I stood up, that is all I remember. 

The other members of my crew said an explosion went off, maybe from a mortar round directly in front of me.  It picked me up and threw me backwards about ten feet.  They left the chopper and went after me and the other man.  The other side gunner got out and helped them.  The right gunner told them we were dead and to leave us there.  He kept saying they needed to get out of there and to leave us.

When I woke up in the hospital in Thailand I had a cast on my left foot and left arm.  A piece of steel hit my left leg just above the foot and cracked the bone.  Another hit my left lower arm about half way up and broke the bone.  Another entered my left leg above the knee and went about half way through.  One entered the right leg above the knee and went all the way through.  One large piece was imbedded in my flack jacket right in front of my heart.  All we knew about the other person was he was sent back to a hospital somewhere in the states.

Fast forward to June, 1983.  I was stationed at Spangdahlm AB Germany and was deployed to Nellis AFB, NV for a Red Flag exercise.  After pounding the hot flight line for twelve hours, I went to the NCO club for a cold one before heading back to my motel off base.  I was almost through with my beer when the bartender set another one down in front of me and said it was from the man setting at that table.  I finished my first one, grabbed the second one and went over to the table to thank him.  He asked if I rememberd him and I had to tell him that I didn't.  When He told me that he was the man I went back after he was hit, I couldn't believe it.  He had put on forty pounds, the thick blond hair he had was now gray around the sides and bald on top, and wore thick glasses.  I found out the large piece of steel imbedded in my flack jacket had gone through his right leg, which slowed it down preventing it from going through my flack jacket and into my heart.  The leg was torn up so bad they couldn't save it.  A bullet had entered through the arm opening on his flack jacket and went into his left lung, just missing his heart.  That was the injury that initially took him down.  He was living in the Vegas area, met and married a local girl and had three children.  Before we parted company, we exchanged addresses and phone numbers and agreed to stay in touch.  For some reason we didn't and that was the only time I saw him.   

  

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

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