The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

Is anyone else out there building the Accurate Miniatures F-4 1/72?  Just wondering if anyone else is running into small build issues.  For an expensive kit, it's being a pain....

Hey everyone,

I have a question about the F-4C.  I'm building an early -C (circa 1966 w/ Navy style pylons) and am using one picture for reference (apparently only one photo exists).  Problem is, the pic doesn't show the wingtips.  I noticed that Hase's F-4 has what looks to me as formation lights molded onto the wingtips.  Here's a line drawing of an -EJ showing what's molded on the Hase's plastic:

Would early -Cs have this detail (formation light), or should I sand it off my build?

Thanks!

-O

It's Friday!

After Burner Persnickity Heaven Time!

Armed with a new set of riffler files (probably won't use them, but they look nice), renewed vigour (mostly due to a bad memory, so I've almost forgotten I sanded a little chunk off of my thumb last Sunday) I intend to take another 1/64" tolerence off the edges of 40 AB liner manifolds!

Thank Goethe for waterproof sandpaper!

Quick question.  I am watching a set of KMC intakes for the F4 Hasegawa kits.  What do they correct?  And are they worth getting?  It's over in 20 minutes so hopefully someone will see this before then.

Thanks

Rich

Hey Jim,

Thanks for your two cents.  Usually I’m one of those “yeah, it’s not perfect, but it’s close enough and I like it so that’s all that really matters to me” builders.  Just thought I’d see what you guys had to say, if for no other reason than to see if I could muster up some motivation for stretching my skills boundary.  Sometimes you need someone one to double-dog dare you to get the juices flowing.  You know, just to see if you can rise to the challenge. 

Although, hearing berny say that a Phantom’s rivets would all but disappear at 1/48 makes me think that even if I did decide to rivet my build, it would pretty much be a waste of time.  *sigh*

Anyway, I’m still taking suggestions.  Let me know what you guys think.  I know the decision’s ultimately mine, but I’m still curious to hear what you guys have to say.  Do you think a rescribe and rivet of Hase’s 1/48 F-4C would be worth the effort?

Cheers!

-O

berny13

 

Bockscar:

 

 

 

Berny if that is another Tamiya 1/32, it is really going to hurt, um,,,er,,,, you are really going to have fun re-scribing and re-riveting!

 

 

I am not loosing that much detail on the recessed lines.  As for rivets, the F-4 used close tolerance high sheer flush rivets so they would not be seen on any painted surface.  Even on the real aircraft you would have a hard time even seeing them unless they were loose.  Panel screws yes, I do have some I will have to make.

Berny;

Glad you mentioned the rivets. Revell didn't put any on this kit. If you have the time and Inclination, I'ld like to see how your de-scabbing effort turns out, It would make for good guidance on my finish.

Thanks

Bockscar

 

 

Berny if that is another Tamiya 1/32, it is really going to hurt, um,,,er,,,, you are really going to have fun re-scribing and re-riveting!

I am not loosing that much detail on the recessed lines.  As for rivets, the F-4 used close tolerance high sheer flush rivets so they would not be seen on any painted surface.  Even on the real aircraft you would have a hard time even seeing them unless they were loose.  Panel screws yes, I do have some I will have to make.

Howdy jimbot!

I'd dare to say that you'll have a window of around 7 to 10 minutes to come back and do the cleaning.

Cheers!

Berny: You were totally correct about using those "Q28" parts. That was so obvious, I am an idiot for not seeing it myself!

El taino: What kind of working time does that A+B putty have? I have had seams in that spot that I just couldn't get right!

Oortiz: My answer would be what you want to achieve. Recessed is always better, but my scribing skills suck and I would never attempt a complete rescribe myself at any scale! I hate scribing to restore lines lost to seam fills and then trying to blend raised with scribed lines when I have to. You have the skills, so how much effort do you want to expend?

Jim

El Taino

 

Same here with wing to fuselage.

El T, that's a great solution, and I like the no-sanding clean up.

Thanks for the KH!

Sparrowhyperion

Because it is soooo much fun..  LOL  That's why we all do it.

 

 

berny13:

 

I am about to go blind.  My finger tips are raw.  The kit has 27 scab patches that has to be sanded off.  I am not even 1/4 of the way there yet.  Why am I doing this?

 

 

Guys that reminds me of the days when I rode 200 mile rides with a bike club(Toronto to Niagara Falls and back, my best time under 14 hours). Somewhere around mile 150 someone would inevitably say "...oh 'shiskabob' this hurts....why am I doing this?....." and the standard reply was "If it doesn't hurt, you're not having fun!"

Berny if that is another Tamiya 1/32, it is really going to hurt, um,,,er,,,, you are really going to have fun re-scribing and re-riveting!

Yeah Rich....soooo much fun....!

The Hasegawa C's have raised lines, as well as the B/N (still), and some older boxings of the J.

O -- if you have the skills, I would say the recessed panel lines are a definite plus. I bid many times on eBay to get hold of a Has -C and was extremely put out to find raised lines when I opened the box. It's the only Has 1:48 Phantom I've encountered so far with raised lines, though I've noticed there are a pair of intakes on one sprue in other kits with raised lines that are superfluous parts. This suggests the kits were retooled with engraved lines at some point, and the -C is a leftover from the pre-engraved lines days.

Cheers, M/TB379

Wow, man - that's the Monogram F-14? Niiiice! You apparently do have the required skills!

As for aesthetics, anyone got a pic of a raised and engraved F-4 next to each other?

Hey dupes,

Thanks for the input.  I'm not too worried about my ability to do it, after all, I've already rescribed a Monogram Tomcat.  I was asking more for aesthetic reasons.  Do you think it would look "better" than the raised panels? 

Just wonderin'...

Someone asked about the A+B Epoxy a few pages back, sorry, I don't recall which page. Yes, I also use Squadron White or Green Putty, depending on the base color. As I mentioned, I use the Epoxy to get rid of gaps, especially those hard to reach and sand. Here is a sample with an Academy 1:48 Mig 29AS. There was a long gap between fuselage and intake exterior. Application with a toothpick is messy but easily cleanable. Didn't take more than a minute to clean with a few moist in saliva cotton swabs.

Hope this helps.

Same here with wing to fuselage.

I've never attempted a full rescribe of anything, much less something the size of a 1/48 Phantom...more power to you if you can pull it off, but personally I'd start on something a bit smaller.

Maybe try the technique in this month's FSM (the F-8 article)?

Hey gang,

I'm getting close to finally starting my Phantom!  My current project is about 80% done, and I'm catching myself stealing sideways glances at the box imprisoning my -C.

I wanted to run something by you all first.  A bit of a straw poll, if you will.  Let me start by saying I'm not a rivet counter and I don't mind raised panel lines, but I do think a riveted and scribed build looks good when done well.  So that got me thinking, and I thought I’d throw this out to everyone:

Whatcha think?  Should I rescribe and rivet my 1/48 Hasegawa F-4C? 

I don’t have any references that would give me the exact rivet or panel patterns, but I think I could get close enough for gov’t work. 

So?  What say the masses? 

Cheers,

-O (chomping at the bit to get his Phantom started)

Because it is soooo much fun..  LOL  That's why we all do it.

berny13

I am about to go blind.  My finger tips are raw.  The kit has 27 scab patches that has to be sanded off.  I am not even 1/4 of the way there yet.  Why am I doing this?

I am about to go blind.  My finger tips are raw.  The kit has 27 scab patches that has to be sanded off.  I am not even 1/4 of the way there yet.  Why am I doing this?

Why don't you just mount Q28 to the pylons.  They look like pylon sway braces.  Then mount the AGM launchers to the pylon.

Hello! Yet another Phantom question to ask: The arms I plan to mount under my 'Geasel' were taken from Hasegawa's weapons set and the kit also includes the pylon mounts for the AGM's I'll be using.

I assume that I will need to fill in those two notches where the rails for Sidewinders would be mounted? I could cement in the parts and then nip off the rails themselves, I think. See parts S-1 and S-2 below.

Thanks in advance FOR THIS and for any and all help you have given me thus far!

P.S. you can also note the spelling of the word ARMSMENT on the instruction sheet.......

oortiz10 & mississippivol:

Thanks a bunch to both of you for the information and photos! I did take and "Ir-regulate" the line so now it is neither regular or wavy. I also looked up 'counter-shading'. It is where an object is darker on top and lighter on it's bottom side-such as an animal like a shark. Normally, an object would appear darker underneath when it is top lit, but counter-shading makes the distinction less obvious.

jimbot58

Hello gang!

First off, now that I know what the sway braces are I was able to tackle that. I have an old F-15C kit that died a horrible death a long time ago. In the spare parts, I found some sway braces for the drop tanks. Too big you say? I cut them into three pieces using a razor blade, removed the center and cemented the outer pieces together. Came out about the right size.

Then the missing gear doors. I mentioned using the Italeri doors even though they were flat. I then had the idea to bend them around the handle of a paint brush to curve them and they actually match the doors found in my other Hasegawa kits!

Now another slight issue: When I painted the underside the gray as called for and made the edge between the top and bottom a straight line as the instructions suggested. Then I found this:

Not sure if this is a "G" but the photo shows a wavy line, which I think would make more sense. Should this be correct then? I guess back to the paint shop!

Jim,

That's actually an "E" that you're looking at, though the "G's" scheme is practically the same. The wavy line you're seeing didn't seem to be a standard thing, and I would keep things as is. Here's another pic of a late model "E" that might help cement things for you.

jimbot58

Hello gang!

First off, now that I know what the sway braces are I was able to tackle that. I have an old F-15C kit that died a horrible death a long time ago. In the spare parts, I found some sway braces for the drop tanks. Too big you say? I cut them into three pieces using a razor blade, removed the center and cemented the outer pieces together. Came out about the right size.

Then the missing gear doors. I mentioned using the Italeri doors even though they were flat. I then had the idea to bend them around the handle of a paint brush to curve them and they actually match the doors found in my other Hasegawa kits!

Now another slight issue: When I painted the underside the gray as called for and made the edge between the top and bottom a straight line as the instructions suggested. Then I found this:

Not sure if this is a "G" but the photo shows a wavy line, which I think would make more sense. Should this be correct then? I guess back to the paint shop!

Jim,

That's actually an "E" that you're looking at, though the "G's" scheme is practically the same. The wavy line you're seeing didn't seem to be a standard thing, and I would keep things as is. Here's another pic of a late model "E" that might help cement things for you.

Hey jimbot,

I found a USAF tech manual from '98 titled "Exterior Finishes, Insignia & Markings Applicable to USAF Aircraft."

There's a part that refers to the underside of camo-colored jets, and I think relates to your question.  Section 5.4.b says, "The bottom color shall be brought up the sides of the fuselage to give the approximate side view appearance in accordance with the application illustration.  The line between the underbelly color and the upper surface pattern shall be an irregular, indistinct, countershaded area.  A sharp line and any regular repeating pattern such as a scallop will raise the risk of detection and compromise the overall camouflage effect."

So, if you ask me for my (uneducated & ignorant) opinion, I'd say the scalloped look on the forward part of that F-4's fuse is "wrong" (according to the tech order), and so are the kit's instructions.  I'd think an irregular, feathered edge is the way to go.  Although, I have no idea what "countershaded" means...

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

-O

Hello gang!

First off, now that I know what the sway braces are I was able to tackle that. I have an old F-15C kit that died a horrible death a long time ago. In the spare parts, I found some sway braces for the drop tanks. Too big you say? I cut them into three pieces using a razor blade, removed the center and cemented the outer pieces together. Came out about the right size.

Then the missing gear doors. I mentioned using the Italeri doors even though they were flat. I then had the idea to bend them around the handle of a paint brush to curve them and they actually match the doors found in my other Hasegawa kits!

Now another slight issue: When I painted the underside the gray as called for and made the edge between the top and bottom a straight line as the instructions suggested. Then I found this:

Not sure if this is a "G" but the photo shows a wavy line, which I think would make more sense. Should this be correct then? I guess back to the paint shop!

II just remembered that the Verlinden set is what I already have.  I forgot who made it.  No cords and it just doesn't look right.  Affording the kit is one thing, but it seems that every dealer I can find is gouging on the shipping.  I mean $15 to ship a package that small priority USPS???  I'll have to keep lookinf until I can get them with reasonable shipping.

Son Of Medicine Man

 

Sparrowhyperion:

 

Me too.  I checked a few sites and it looks like the Aries kit has PE cords and belts.  So If I can find them cheap enough I'll snag them.  Do the kits come with 1 or 2 seats?

Rich

 

 

Son Of Medicine Man:

Rich,

I forgot to mention that I am talking about the 1/48" scale set.

Ken

 

 

 

 

For the Aires, both seats came with the cockpit set.  The Verlinden set was the "Super Detail Set" and came with both seats.

Ken

Sparrowhyperion

Me too.  I checked a few sites and it looks like the Aries kit has PE cords and belts.  So If I can find them cheap enough I'll snag them.  Do the kits come with 1 or 2 seats?

Rich

 

Son Of Medicine Man:

Rich,

I forgot to mention that I am talking about the 1/48" scale set.

Ken

 

For the Aires, both seats came with the cockpit set.  The Verlinden set was the "Super Detail Set" and came with both seats.

Ken

Hi Rich,

They do have the loops, just not molded in.  On the Aires, they are photo etched, but not in color.  Which means they are not three dimensional.   On the Verlinden, they don't show in their instructions, but I think the copper wire that comes with it is meant to be used to make the loops.  Which would make them at least three dimensional.

Ken