Monogram Mafia Group Build

Don Hammerleoni,

I would like to have your permission to build the 1973 boxing of the Hurricane and the dreaded F-80C Shooting Star with removeable tail...I know that you are a busy man so I will await your answer...

Here is my Kingfisher and Stuka anyway.  And I may do a T-6 as well.  All in 1/48 of course.

Well Hmmm.. How about these two Hans?

I don't have a lot of older kits.  If these don't qualify, then I do have my ancient B25J kit and an old Hawker Hurricane, both in 1/48.  Let me know if these will do. 

Thanks

Rich

Hans von Hammer

Finally decided...

Mk IX Spitfire and Fokker D VII

Sorry, Don Hammer, with all due respetto, but the Fokker can never be a made Monogram Mafia kit.  It's originally Aurora's kit.  It came into Monogram's "thing" when Monogram rubbed Aurora out and took over their territory.  Same goes for the SE 5a and the Corsair II.

Looks like I'll have to go into the Revell Protection program now, for talking to our Don this way...

Oh, and please count me in, with the SBD done as an A-24, Philipines, December 1941, and the TBF done as a FAA Tarpon.

Grazie!

Brad aka Al "Da Tooth" Dente

oooh !! ooh !! I'm in... gota puruse the "stash".. maybe ebay for a "find"... !!!

I'll send a guy over I know to give ya my choices...

What a great idea!

It bums me out, though. I could have joined this build had I not lost my stash. I am broke as a joke so I'll just have to settle with following the thread.

Looking forward to seeing all the completed kits.

Sparrowhyperion

Well Hmmm.. How about these two Hans?

I don't have a lot of older kits.  If these don't qualify, then I do have my ancient B25J kit and an old Hawker Hurricane, both in 1/48.  Let me know if these will do. 

Thanks

Rich

Yeah, those'll do fine, Rich...

Sorry, Don Hammer, with all due respetto, but the Fokker can never be a made Monogram Mafia kit.  It's originally Aurora's kit.  It came into Monogram's "thing" when Monogram rubbed Aurora out and took over their territory.  Same goes for the SE 5a and the Corsair II.

No, don't worry about any Protection Programs, Baron...  You're absolutely right about the three Monogram WW1 kits (D VII, Camel, SE-5A, and, for that matter, the Revell Germany Fokker Dr1) being ex-Aurora kits, and I knew that...  It falls the same way the 1/32 ProModeler Bf 109G (which is ex-Hasegawa) does.. I need to check on the A-7 though...

You keep right on doing what you do... Oh, and feel free to edit the Fokker box outta the reply you made.. took care of that on my end..

BTW... I'll stop by later... Thought we'd go fishing...

Ok, Baron.. Did some checking and the 1979 "White-Box" release of the A-7 is indeed an Ex-Aurora kit, at least according "Modeling MadnessDOT com" 's review of it...  

Good catch... Not being a "Jet guy", I need to check a little harder, lol.. Shoulda suspected it, since their never was a 60's release of it, nor did they ever do a real "box-art" type of release in the 80s..

EDIT:  Upon further reviews, and a took jog around the net, it appears that Monogram retooled the molds for the Aurora A-7A Corsair II, but the A-7E, boxed as a Revell kit, isn't Aurora's kit, but rather an ex-Hasegawa mold..  Doesn't change anything though.. Both versions are ineligible..

Hans von Hammer

Sorry, Don Hammer, with all due respetto, but the Fokker can never be a made Monogram Mafia kit.  It's originally Aurora's kit.  It came into Monogram's "thing" when Monogram rubbed Aurora out and took over their territory.  Same goes for the SE 5a and the Corsair II.

No, don't worry about any Protection Programs, Baron...  You're absolutely right about the three Monogram WW1 kits (D VII, Camel, SE-5A, and, for that matter, the Revell Germany Fokker Dr1) being ex-Aurora kits, and I knew that...  It falls the same way the 1/32 ProModeler Bf 109G (which is ex-Hasegawa) does.. I need to check on the A-7 though...

You keep right on doing what you do... Oh, and feel free to edit the Fokker box outta the reply you made.. took care of that on my end..

BTW... I'll stop by later... Thought we'd go fishing...

 

Monogram's F-111A is another of those ex Aurora molds. Like the A-7 it came into the family, was dressed up a bit, (cockpit detail and wheel wells added) then released under the Monogram label. Just like all the WWI fighters: Camel, SE-5, Albatross, Nieuport, Dr.I, D.VII...

ProModeler kits like the JU-87B, F-4E, A-4E/F, FW-190G2/3, Ju-88, Bf-109G2 are straight up imports from Hasegawa and Dragon.

Yeah, I'm finding out more and more about the ProModelers, Stik.. I never bought any of them, except for the B-17 and B-24...

B-17 Guy asked about them, and I'm of a mindset to eliminate any ProModeler kit that wasn't initially molded in the 60's and  70's by Monogram...  Which means the Fort and Lib would be the only kosher PM kits, I think...

At any rate, let's get this thing Hammered out ASAP (pun intended) before we go any farther with PM kits...

UPDATE:

ProModeler kits like the JU-87B, F-4E, A-4E/F, FW-190G2/3, Ju-88, Bf-109G2 are straight up imports from Hasegawa and Dragon.

Ok.. The ONLY Stuka kits allowed are the Ju-87G-1 or Ju 87D.. The D is a re-tolling of the G-1, which means, visually,  it's got a bomb-load in place of the 3.7cm PaKs

Goes for the following too...

F-4J is ok

Fw 190 A, same

Me 109E

The list of Monogram kits of the "NO-GO"  A-4 Skyhawks are here: http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php

I can't find anything anywhere that says that Monogram built any of the Skyhawk molds...

Pro Modeler also did some of the older kits: B-25J, Do-335, P-39Q and completely revamped the classic P-51B. Some of their kits were dressed up issues of new R/M kits done after the merger: B-26B, Ta-154, Bf-110G, Me-410, F-84G, Ju-52, PBY-5A, F-15E, Hunter FGA, and SB2C.

stikpusher

Pro Modeler also did some of the older kits: B-25J, Do-335, P-39Q and completely revamped the classic P-51B. Some of their kits were dressed up issues of new R/M kits done after the merger: B-26B, Ta-154, Bf-110G, F-84G, Ju-52, PBY-5A, F-15E, Hunter FGA, and SB2C.

P-51B  "Ding Hao"- AJ*A flown by Jim Howard release, -GO.

P-51B from current Revell or ProModeler,- NO GO.

B-24D- GO

F-15E -NO GO (It's an ex-Revell kit)

Bf 110G, -NO GO (ex-Revell Kit. Only Me 110 kit Mongram ever made was the 1/72 scale Zerstorer)

F-4E, -NO GO

SB2C, -NO GO

Ju-52, -NO GO (Never released as a Monogram-molded kit, was first released post-R/M merger)

Do-217, -NO GO (Ex-Revell)

B-25J, -GO

Do-335, -GO

F-84F  -GO

F-84G  -NO GO

PBY 5A , -NO GO

PBY5A/OA-10A, -NO GO

1/104 (Box Scale) PBY -GO

EA-6B Prowler- NO GO

There's likely to be more, so stay tuned...

BTW, let's try to KISS the build..

The whole purpose of the build is to take the old Monogram stand-bys, with their raised panel lines, the lack of cockpits, "operating features",and the dime-thin wheels, "warts & all" you can say,  and show what can be done with these classic  kits...  It's not for doing  "Tamigawa" shake & bakes...  We want to show the rest of the community that you don't need a 50.00 kit to be a good modeler, but rather to show that all you need is some basic modeling skill, some sheet, strip, and sprue, and about 12-16.00 dollars to build a beautiful model..

stikpusher

Pro Modeler also did some of the older kits: B-25J, Do-335, P-39Q and completely revamped the classic P-51B. Some of their kits were dressed up issues of new R/M kits done after the merger: B-26B, Ta-154, Bf-110G, Me-410, F-84G, Ju-52, PBY-5A, F-15E, Hunter FGA, and SB2C.

  So the Promodeler P-51 B/C is good to go? How `bout the He-111 H 4/6?

The F-84G is like the F-15E, Ju-52, SB2C, PBY-5A and Do-217. All those are modern new tooled, post merger (1986) releases.

The P-51B rehash is a step child with the kit being updated in the early post merger.

I forgot about two other ProModeler kits: P-38F/G/H-ex Hasegawa, and P-40E,ex Revell.

troublemaker66

stikpusher:

Pro Modeler also did some of the older kits: B-25J, Do-335, P-39Q and completely revamped the classic P-51B. Some of their kits were dressed up issues of new R/M kits done after the merger: B-26B, Ta-154, Bf-110G, Me-410, F-84G, Ju-52, PBY-5A, F-15E, Hunter FGA, and SB2C.

 

Stik-

  So the Promodeler P-51 B/C is good to go? How `bout the He-111 H 4/6?

No.. The "H" model of the He 111 is out, as is the ProModeler AND current Revell P-51B.

This is starting to get complicatred, which is the opposite of what I wanted to do..

I'm about to say NO GO to all the ProModeler kits .. Just to eliminate the confusion, if nothing else..

I think the main reason for it is the lack of many modelers who built the Monogram kits when they were first released, in the 60's and 70's, lol...

I think the F-84 and PBY should go with all the other new tooled and be off the "made" list. Otherwise you need to open it up to the others. Even the A/B-26 falls in that catagory of a post merger release that has R/M parentage rather than strictly Monogram.

 So the Promodeler P-51 B/C is good to go? How `bout the He-111 H 4/6?

 

No.. The "H" model of the He 111 is out, as is the ProModeler AND current Revell P-51B.

[/quote]Why is the "H" out?....it`s in a Monogram box....  Never saw it in a Revell box or any other box.....this is getting confusing...thank goodness a couple of you guys know all this crap...

stikpusher

I think the F-84 and PBY should go with all the other new tooled and be off the "made" list. Otherwise you need to open it up to the others. Even the A/B-26 falls in that catagory of a post merger release that has R/M parentage rather than strictly Monogram.

Ok, Stik.. You're my new Lieutenant...  I'm geting confused now, as far as a lot of these kits go, since I don't recall the release dates of a lot of them...  I have, right now, about 30 kits ripped open and scattered about the War Room floor, checking copyright molds, and instruction seet dates, and panel lines, etc..  However, I'm thinking that the A-26B was a "true" Monogram kit, pre-merger, while the Charlie was a post-merger, as well as the B/C and ProModeler versions..

What I'm after, is, as you pointed out, the Monogram kits that were made in Morton Grove, IL, and had NO Revell ties...

So I reckon ALL ProModeler should be off the "Made List"... The Monogram B-17 and B-24J are ok, the PM B-17G  and PM or Revell B-24Ds are not, guys...  

Why is the "H" out?....it`s in a Monogram box.... 

Because it was first released "Post-Merger", if I'm tracking all the info I'm looking up.. Being in a Monogram box isn't good enough to determine if the kit first "started life" as a Monogram kit, hence the pulling off the list of the ex-Aurora WW1 kits..

Gys, at any rate, I'm going into the hospital for some surgery on Monday, so I'll be outta the net for a week or so..

If you got any Monogram kits on hand that  A: are questionable as to whether they were ever released prior to the merge with Revell, B: aren't in a "White Box" or earlier type of box, and C: are ProModeler, don't start them yet...

Graci Signor!

I can nail down to pre or post merger (1986) on most of these kits. The B-26C glass nosed was released prior to the gun nosed A-26B ProModeler release. I do know that it came out after 1987, but I would have to pull it out of the stash to check the copyright date and my sales receipt whichI think I still have.... It shares the molding characteristics of the older big Monogram birds and most likely was designed in the Monogram design house before the merger. The He-111, PBY, JU-52, F-84, F-15E, SB2C, Bf-110G, Do-217, Ta-154, and pretty much any other recessed panel line 1/48 kit will certainly be post merger.

I'm guessing that if there is a Monogram company stamp on the plastic, we don't have to worry, right??

If it is stamped with "Monogram" or "MMI", I think you're good, Owl.. But lemme make sure..

stikpusher

Graci Signor!

I can nail down to pre or post merger (1986) on most of these kits. The B-26C glass nosed was released prior to the gun nosed A-26B ProModeler release. I do know that it came out after 1987, but I would have to pull it out of the stash to check the copyright date and my sales receipt whichI think I still have.... It shares the molding characteristics of the older big Monogram birds and most likely was designed in the Monogram design house before the merger. The He-111, PBY, JU-52, F-84, F-15E, SB2C, Bf-110G, Do-217, Ta-154, and pretty much any other recessed panel line 1/48 kit will certainly be post merger.

That's what I'm getting too, Stik... Pre-Merger copyright dates (1986 or earlier) would make them ok...  They produced the PBY-5 in 1994, and the amphibian, PBY-5A, came later, I think..  So that's out.. In fact, it's like you said, if it has recessed lines, its a post-merger kit...  While it's possible that a stamp may read, "Copyright Revell-Monogram", it's the date that's gonna matter...

I'm looking at the Revell SBD right now..

It's data plaque reads: "Copyright 1960- Revell-Monogram LLC, All rights reserved, Made in China"

There's the key on that one, "Copyright 1960"..

Now, looking at the P-40B with the Copyright date of 1991 on the box, we think it's a post-merger kit, and not allowed.. BUT:

You'd be wrong.. Inside, on the right fuselage half, it reads, "Copyright Monogram Models, Inc. Made in U.S.A."  (No date, but I know it's early 1960s.. So we're good to go.. 

See how we're going here, folks?

The kits need to have been released, initially, as Monogram kits, and prior to the Monogram/Revell Merger in 1986. .. If they were just boxed with new artwork, that doesn't matter... 

So whattaya say we all just try to find those kits that we KNOW are pre-1986 releases, or were once released prior to 1986, OR, only ProModeler kits that were released prior to 1986, initially, and have, for the modt part the same parts as their older cousins.... By that, I mean you should be able to mix the parts up between the two kits, Ie. Put a PM B-17G Fuselage half onto a Monogram B-17G fuselage half and they match up...

Oh, regarding the stright-winged PM F-84G question.. No.. It's not a Monogram kit... But the swept-wing F-84F is  (1985)...