First Annual Berny Memorial Group Build

Striker8241

Hey Ken,

I stumbled onto this site for the National Museum of the USAF.

www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/.../media_search.asp

There are some nice shots of F-101s, as well as a host of other aircraft.

Cheers,

Russ

Hi Russ,

Oh yes, I know the museum well.  I live in Indiana about a 3 hours drive away from it.  A group of us met with Berny last year there.  I setup a special "one-on-one" with one of the F-4's for Berny where they allowed him behind the ropes to get up close and personal.  It was a real treat.

I want to go there again this year since they have part 2 of the Vietnam Exhibit done now.  When the weather cools down I think would be a good time to go.  They are also supposed to be building a new wing that will be housing a C-5 Galaxy!

Ken

Its not wax dude, its called Future floor polish. Or pledge with future shine. Whereabouts are you located geographically russ?

Need some advice guys. I'm about to start spray painting using cans. I have the paint for the base coat and clear coat. What kind of floor wax or furniture wax was it that you guys use as a final coat?

Thanks,

Russ

2 Aircraft i wouldnt mind building myself. Very nice.

Nice work, Jim! They're looking good!

Russ

Ok, here are a couple of more shot of the two aircraft I'm trying to do for this build;

The A-7D:

And this is what I hope to achieve:

And the F-105, which I haven't forgotten, but if I can get some progress done on the A-7, I can get back to it:

One thing I have learned about the camera so far, is that I need to turn down the pixel size for the purposes of these forums. Imageshack refuses to allow uploads of the picture at their original size without a premium account. I don't think we need 16 megapixels for this anyway.

lol someone beat me to it.....

No.. Chaff are small patches of metal foil designed to confuse enemy radar guided missiles.  Flares are just that, very hot flare rounds that are designed to confuse heat guided missiles.

Rich

Son Of Medicine Man

Striker8241

Surgery successful!

 I finally got the 47-section hatch cut out. It was a tough job because the plastic is really thick here. This hatch was important to the ECM shop because it gained access to the "ovens" - fiberglass boxes that held our high-power jamming transmitters. Through this hatch, we removed and replaced transmitters and their cooling units, some weighing over 50 lbs each. It also provided access to our chaff dispensers. Each loaded tray of chaff weighed about 40 lbs (the trays weighed about 25 lbs empty) and there were 16 of these trays in a full load, one for each slot in the side of the aircraft. They all had to be handed up through the hatch.

Below is a single chaff tray. Each was about 4 feet long and was made of cast aluminum and steel. It had two channels for chaff bundles. The trays were loaded vertically into the dispensers. The dispensers had motor-driven pawls that ejected the chaff bundles. The chaff bundles came in small cardboard packets that were torn open by the pawls when the bundle was ejected. 

Cheers,

Russ

 

Great information there Russ!  So is that chaff flares?

Ken

B52s on SAC Alert

Thought you might also be interested in another aspect of my tour with the B-52s at Clinton-Sherman AFB, OK - the nuclear aspect. This was the cold war period so our primary mission was to maintain bombers on alert. For this, we had a separate high-security alert area at one end of the base called the "Christmas Tree" (located to the right at the end of the runway as shown on the map below). The parking spaces were arranged this way so the aircraft could quickly pull out  and taxi to the runway.

We usually maintained 6-8 alert aircraft. An alert aircraft was "cocked" - meaning it had the arming codes and targeting information on board. The alert area was a "No-Lone" zone, which meant everyone, including guards had to be in pairs and you could never be out of sight of your partner while in the area. If you did, you could be shot. Even worse, you could set off a security alert and be arrested and bundled onto a pickup where you stood with your hands on the cab, a searchlight focused on you and a gazillion M-16s trained on you while you were trundled off to the poky with great fanfare (it didnt' happen to me, but I saw it happen to someone else - frankly, I'd rather be shot )

Some of our older planes carried Hound Dog missiles on the pylons and usually two large nukes in the bomb bay. A typical bomb load might be two 1-megaton Hound Dogs and two 20-mt nukes. It was pretty sobering to stand next to a live 20 mt thermonuclear bomb and realize if it went off, you would never know what happened - your brain would be vaporized before it could process what was happening.

The alert crews rode in blue pickups with yellow flashing lights on top. They had the same right of way as emergency vehicles. Each alert B-52 had it's own tanker to refuel it once it was airborne and before it headed off to target. Seeing 8 KC-135s and 8 B-52s taxiing out and taking off was a fantastic sight. Knowing they all made it into the air without breaking was even more fantastic .

Russ

Hey Ken,

I stumbled onto this site for the National Museum of the USAF.

www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/.../media_search.asp

There are some nice shots of F-101s, as well as a host of other aircraft.

Cheers,

Russ

Son Of Medicine Man

Striker8241

Son Of Medicine Man

So back to the chaff dispensers, this chaff then was like the chaff they used in WWII, aluminum, to confuse radar?

Ken

 

Yup, although much more sophisticated. Instead of plain aluminimum strips, the chaff now is mylar strips coated with alluminum. Much thinner and stronger. It is cut to different lengths depending on the frequency of the signals you want to jam - longer for lower frequences and shorter for higher frequencies. Some of the lower frequency chaff is 8-10 ft long and actually can cause power outages if they get across high power lines. The very high frequency chaff is around an inch long and very narrow - like what you get from a shredder.

 

Russ

Very cool, I did not know that.  That is very interesting.  Thank you for giving us all a lesson on that!   

Ken

Striker8241

Son Of Medicine Man

So back to the chaff dispensers, this chaff then was like the chaff they used in WWII, aluminum, to confuse radar?

Ken

 

Yup, although much more sophisticated. Instead of plain aluminimum strips, the chaff now is mylar strips coated with alluminum. Much thinner and stronger. It is cut to different lengths depending on the frequency of the signals you want to jam - longer for lower frequences and shorter for higher frequencies. Some of the lower frequency chaff is 8-10 ft long and actually can cause power outages if they get across high power lines. The very high frequency chaff is around an inch long and very narrow - like what you get from a shredder.

 

Russ

Very cool, I did not know that.  That is very interesting.  Thank you for giving us all a lesson on that!   

Ken

Son Of Medicine Man

So back to the chaff dispensers, this chaff then was like the chaff they used in WWII, aluminum, to confuse radar?

Ken

Striker8241

Great information there Russ!  So is that chaff flares?

Ken

Thanks, Ken!

No, the flare dispensers were a separate system. There were six dispensers located underneath the horizontal stabilizer, three on each side. If I remember correctly, they were arranged perpendicular to the fuselage. As I recall, each dispenser looked like a top hat and was mounted into a hole in the stabilizer. The "brim" fit into a recess and was flush with the bottom surface so they're hard to see in photos.

I remember working on a flare dispenser with another guy on a snowy Oklahoma winter day with the wind blowing about 30 mph. There was so much ice on the ramp that our stand started sliding out from underneath the plane.  By the time we got it stopped, we were almost to the plane parked next to us.

Russ

That had to be a scary ride!  And from the sounds of it, a cold one too!

So back to the chaff dispensers, this chaff then was like the chaff they used in WWII, aluminum, to confuse radar?

Ken

Great information there Russ!  So is that chaff flares?

Ken

Thanks, Ken!

No, the flare dispensers were a separate system. There were six dispensers located underneath the horizontal stabilizer, three on each side. If I remember correctly, they were arranged perpendicular to the fuselage. As I recall, each dispenser looked like a top hat and was mounted into a hole in the stabilizer. The "brim" fit into a recess and was flush with the bottom surface so they're hard to see in photos.

Wuups! That must have been the C or F model. The D had the dispensers in a row on each side next to the fuselage, as shown below. For this musem display, the dispensers have been removed and blank panels installed.

I remember working on a flare dispenser with another guy on a snowy Oklahoma winter day with the wind blowing about 30 mph. There was so much ice on the ramp that our stand started sliding out from underneath the plane.  By the time we got it stopped, we were almost to the plane parked next to us.

Russ

jimbot58

First attempt:

My Rhinos (so far)

Great pictures there Jim!  Looks like your new camera works very nice!  And by the way, very nice job on those Phantoms!     

Ken

Striker8241

Surgery successful!

 I finally got the 47-section hatch cut out. It was a tough job because the plastic is really thick here. This hatch was important to the ECM shop because it gained access to the "ovens" - fiberglass boxes that held our high-power jamming transmitters. Through this hatch, we removed and replaced transmitters and their cooling units, some weighing over 50 lbs each. It also provided access to our chaff dispensers. Each loaded tray of chaff weighed about 40 lbs (the trays weighed about 25 lbs empty) and there were 16 of these trays in a full load, one for each slot in the side of the aircraft. They all had to be handed up through the hatch.

Below is a single chaff tray. Each was about 4 feet long and was made of cast aluminum and steel. It had two channels for chaff bundles. The trays were loaded vertically into the dispensers. The dispensers had motor-driven pawls that ejected the chaff bundles. The chaff bundles came in small cardboard packets that were torn open by the pawls when the bundle was ejected. 

Cheers,

Russ

 

Great information there Russ!  So is that chaff flares?

Ken

First attempt:

My Rhinos (so far)

Sparrowhyperion

Arggh...  I had a small hiccup today trying out the Hotmail Outlook connector.  I lost every single email I had from 9/11 up until this morning...  ARGH!!!!!!!

Ouch!  That sucks!

Arggh...  I had a small hiccup today trying out the Hotmail Outlook connector.  I lost every single email I had from 9/11 up until this morning...  ARGH!!!!!!!

Do yourself a big favor.  Get a spare battery and memory card asap.  You'll need them...

jimbot58

WHAT?????? I have to charge it for 4 hours before I can play with it? This is unfair!

jimbot58

WHAT?????? I have to charge it for 4 hours before I can play with it? This is unfair!

Totally unfair!  Oh well, I guess that gives you more time to read all about it's features!   

Ken

WHAT?????? I have to charge it for 4 hours before I can play with it? This is unfair!

jimbot58

Son Of Medicine Man

jimbot58

What a let-down today was! I have been going rounds with the bank trying to gain access to some of Mom's accounts and a safety deposit box, contents unknown, now for weeks! We have been trying to avoid opening probate court with the property not held by the trust being under 60K, and the bank insisting we do this per their  policies! It is not required by law we do this, but the bank wanted otherwise! Finally, they gave in Friday, and I headed over to the bank Saturday and was finally able to close all the accounts. The box was held at another branch and I headed there to open it up. Imagine my disappointment when I opened it up and found it was empty! Mom had told me weeks before she passed not to forget about it, and I never pushed beyond that as to what was in it. Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect to find it stuffed with cash, gold, diamonds or anything like that, but anything would have been better. Photographs, a letter, documents,some personal items, just something! I had a tough time also, when I saw Mom's writing on the paperwork for the box.

I'll talk a bit about my projects later, but I need to go for a drive or something for now, and get out of the house.

Jim

Jim,

I am so sorry.  I know what you mean about seeing the signature.  I have spent the entire week cleaning out my Dad's garage.  He has been dead for two years now and I finally got the nerve to start on it.  I am finding all kinds of paper work with dates right up to his death.  Stuff like receipts for car parts and other things with no indication of the tragic event about to happen to him.  I can only take working on cleaning it for a couple of hours at a time.  It just tears you up inside.

For you I can only imagine.  Going through a battle such as that, uncaring bastards, citing company policies to you, then after all that, to find an empty box.  My heart goes out to you Jim.

Ken

I remember thinking how Mom would talk about her mother, and be still sad after all these years. I guess I didn't understand her ongoing grief at the time, but now I understand perfectly. Now I can more fully understand the depressions she was always in during holidays. She lost her mother, her husband and two of her children. I hope she can forgive me for thinking her moods as being a little over the top at times.

On the brighter side, a check came today for the IRA account I closed a few weeks ago (the only thing she actually named beneficiaries for) and even though some of that money will help me catch up on outstanding bills, I decided Jim needed a little treat/pick-me-up as a reward for all the work I have put into this thing so far: I have finally joined the digital age and purchased a Nikon digital camera. Maybe now I can get some decent photos to post on our builds here. (as soon as Jim learns how to use it!)

Most excellent Jim!  You most certainly deserve to treat yourself!

And don't sweat feeling bad about anything you may have said.  I keep going through the same thing myself.  But then I have to remind myself that I had many, many, many more good times with my Dad than bad.  No one is perfect, we all make mistakes that we regret later.  Just try not to dwell on them.

Have fun with your new camera!  We all look forward to seeing those new pictures!

Ken

Jim, I can sympathize with you 100%.  When my Dad died, he left a pile of bills and no money.  I had to take care of them.  The only thing of any value he left was a beat up 1986 Oldsmobile.  I let my Sister have that because she needed a car.  It took me over a year to clean up the mess.  My Dad and I were barely on speaking terms when he died.  Let's just say he made my childhood  somewhat less than pleasant.  Just as I was getting his stuff in order, I got a phone call that my Mother had died.  The same situation.  My Mom however had several psychiatric conditions, which landed her in various institutions throughout most of my childhood.  I wish the adoption agency that let them adopt me was better at screening.  My Mom had a safe deposit box too, but all I found in it was a bunch of folded up pieces of paper with a lot of chicken scratches, and barely legible ramblings on them.  She had apparently been in one of her episodes when she rented it.  The only person I remember well, who always great to me was my Grandfather.  He was a chief carpenter at Children's Hospital inn Boston for many years after leaving the Navy.  When he died, my jerk Uncle took everything.  He had found the will and claimed everything, the house, all of my Grandfather's tools etc.  Even his car which he destroyed in a month.  I found out much later about the will, and that his tools and such were supposed to go to me since he couldn't stand my uncle and I was the only member of the family who showed any interest at all in carpentry.  Bumpa died about 2 weeks before X-Mas when I was 9.  Every year at that time, I get so depressed I really have to concentrate so I don't grump out the holidays for everyone else.  Losing a close family member is bad enough, but having to deal with all the other crap that you have to deal with is almost as bad in and of itself.

BTW On topic, Engines are attached, Paint is done.  Just waiting for a new sheet of decals to dry.  The B58 is almost done.  Photos will be sent up when she is finished.

jimbot58

What a let-down today was! I have been going rounds with the bank trying to gain access to some of Mom's accounts and a safety deposit box, contents unknown, now for weeks! We have been trying to avoid opening probate court with the property not held by the trust being under 60K, and the bank insisting we do this per their  policies! It is not required by law we do this, but the bank wanted otherwise! Finally, they gave in Friday, and I headed over to the bank Saturday and was finally able to close all the accounts. The box was held at another branch and I headed there to open it up. Imagine my disappointment when I opened it up and found it was empty! Mom had told me weeks before she passed not to forget about it, and I never pushed beyond that as to what was in it. Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect to find it stuffed with cash, gold, diamonds or anything like that, but anything would have been better. Photographs, a letter, documents,some personal items, just something! I had a tough time also, when I saw Mom's writing on the paperwork for the box.

I'll talk a bit about my projects later, but I need to go for a drive or something for now, and get out of the house.

Jim

Son Of Medicine Man

jimbot58

What a let-down today was! I have been going rounds with the bank trying to gain access to some of Mom's accounts and a safety deposit box, contents unknown, now for weeks! We have been trying to avoid opening probate court with the property not held by the trust being under 60K, and the bank insisting we do this per their  policies! It is not required by law we do this, but the bank wanted otherwise! Finally, they gave in Friday, and I headed over to the bank Saturday and was finally able to close all the accounts. The box was held at another branch and I headed there to open it up. Imagine my disappointment when I opened it up and found it was empty! Mom had told me weeks before she passed not to forget about it, and I never pushed beyond that as to what was in it. Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect to find it stuffed with cash, gold, diamonds or anything like that, but anything would have been better. Photographs, a letter, documents,some personal items, just something! I had a tough time also, when I saw Mom's writing on the paperwork for the box.

I'll talk a bit about my projects later, but I need to go for a drive or something for now, and get out of the house.

Jim

Jim,

I am so sorry.  I know what you mean about seeing the signature.  I have spent the entire week cleaning out my Dad's garage.  He has been dead for two years now and I finally got the nerve to start on it.  I am finding all kinds of paper work with dates right up to his death.  Stuff like receipts for car parts and other things with no indication of the tragic event about to happen to him.  I can only take working on cleaning it for a couple of hours at a time.  It just tears you up inside.

For you I can only imagine.  Going through a battle such as that, uncaring bastards, citing company policies to you, then after all that, to find an empty box.  My heart goes out to you Jim.

Ken

I remember thinking how Mom would talk about her mother, and be still sad after all these years. I guess I didn't understand her ongoing grief at the time, but now I understand perfectly. Now I can more fully understand the depressions she was always in during holidays. She lost her mother, her husband and two of her children. I hope she can forgive me for thinking her moods as being a little over the top at times.

On the brighter side, a check came today for the IRA account I closed a few weeks ago (the only thing she actually named beneficiaries for) and even though some of that money will help me catch up on outstanding bills, I decided Jim needed a little treat/pick-me-up as a reward for all the work I have put into this thing so far: I have finally joined the digital age and purchased a Nikon digital camera. Maybe now I can get some decent photos to post on our builds here. (as soon as Jim learns how to use it!)

jimbot58

What a let-down today was! I have been going rounds with the bank trying to gain access to some of Mom's accounts and a safety deposit box, contents unknown, now for weeks! We have been trying to avoid opening probate court with the property not held by the trust being under 60K, and the bank insisting we do this per their  policies! It is not required by law we do this, but the bank wanted otherwise! Finally, they gave in Friday, and I headed over to the bank Saturday and was finally able to close all the accounts. The box was held at another branch and I headed there to open it up. Imagine my disappointment when I opened it up and found it was empty! Mom had told me weeks before she passed not to forget about it, and I never pushed beyond that as to what was in it. Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect to find it stuffed with cash, gold, diamonds or anything like that, but anything would have been better. Photographs, a letter, documents,some personal items, just something! I had a tough time also, when I saw Mom's writing on the paperwork for the box.

I'll talk a bit about my projects later, but I need to go for a drive or something for now, and get out of the house.

Jim

Jim,

I am so sorry.  I know what you mean about seeing the signature.  I have spent the entire week cleaning out my Dad's garage.  He has been dead for two years now and I finally got the nerve to start on it.  I am finding all kinds of paper work with dates right up to his death.  Stuff like receipts for car parts and other things with no indication of the tragic event about to happen to him.  I can only take working on cleaning it for a couple of hours at a time.  It just tears you up inside.

For you I can only imagine.  Going through a battle such as that, uncaring bastards, citing company policies to you, then after all that, to find an empty box.  My heart goes out to you Jim.

Ken

jimbot58

What a let-down today was! I have been going rounds with the bank trying to gain access to some of Mom's accounts and a safety deposit box, contents unknown, now for weeks! We have been trying to avoid opening probate court with the property not held by the trust being under 60K, and the bank insisting we do this per their  policies! It is not required by law we do this, but the bank wanted otherwise! Finally, they gave in Friday, and I headed over to the bank Saturday and was finally able to close all the accounts. The box was held at another branch and I headed there to open it up. Imagine my disappointment when I opened it up and found it was empty! Mom had told me weeks before she passed not to forget about it, and I never pushed beyond that as to what was in it. Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect to find it stuffed with cash, gold, diamonds or anything like that, but anything would have been better. Photographs, a letter, documents,some personal items, just something! I had a tough time also, when I saw Mom's writing on the paperwork for the box.

I'll talk a bit about my projects later, but I need to go for a drive or something for now, and get out of the house.

Jim

What a let-down today was! I have been going rounds with the bank trying to gain access to some of Mom's accounts and a safety deposit box, contents unknown, now for weeks! We have been trying to avoid opening probate court with the property not held by the trust being under 60K, and the bank insisting we do this per their  policies! It is not required by law we do this, but the bank wanted otherwise! Finally, they gave in Friday, and I headed over to the bank Saturday and was finally able to close all the accounts. The box was held at another branch and I headed there to open it up. Imagine my disappointment when I opened it up and found it was empty! Mom had told me weeks before she passed not to forget about it, and I never pushed beyond that as to what was in it. Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect to find it stuffed with cash, gold, diamonds or anything like that, but anything would have been better. Photographs, a letter, documents,some personal items, just something! I had a tough time also, when I saw Mom's writing on the paperwork for the box.

I'll talk a bit about my projects later, but I need to go for a drive or something for now, and get out of the house.

Jim

Surgery successful!

 I finally got the 47-section hatch cut out. It was a tough job because the plastic is really thick here. This hatch was important to the ECM shop because it gained access to the "ovens" - fiberglass boxes that held our high-power jamming transmitters. Through this hatch, we removed and replaced transmitters and their cooling units, some weighing over 150 lbs each. It also provided access to our chaff dispensers. Each loaded magazine of chaff weighed about 40 lbs (they weighed about 25 lbs empty) and there were 16 of these magazines in a full load, one for each slot in the side of the aircraft. They all had to be handed up through the hatch.

The only clear picture of the 47 Section hatch I could find was on a G (or H?) model, shown below.

Below is a single chaff magazine. Each was about 4 feet long and was made of cast aluminum and steel. It had two channels for chaff bundles. The magazines were loaded vertically into the dispensers. The dispensers had motor-driven pawls that ejected the chaff bundles. The chaff bundles came in small cardboard packets that were torn open by the pawls when the bundle was ejected. 

Cheers,

Russ